Ungrateful, spoilt fans. Be careful what you wish for.

[Henry Norris 1913]

I'm not fickle. This problem with the way the team plays and arsene's blind stubborness has been apparent for some time. I haven't been quick to call for his head but a change is due. I want a manager that doesn't cover up the team's short comings by blindly backing every accident prone player in the squad every time they make another costly mistake.

Possible managers to replace are everywhere. Roy Hodgson for instance.

[goonersid]

In my defence, I didn't come in to throw abuse around even if the title could have been a red rag to some. Is there really a big problem with this? This is the attitude I came into the forum with and the reaction I recieved. Some of the dafter responses came from guys who have no doubt created alter ego's ( No5 ), but I remain, no hiding.

This is a warning to anyone coming in with a differing opinion to the majority, you will be shot down by any means.

Leader of the down trodden few, hey Gumbo

I think what you will find Aaron if you care to look a little further back, is that the few now, were once the many! A great number fans have lost faith in Wenger over the last 18 months.
I dread to think what state the affairs on the pitch will be like under another 18 months of Wenger, maybe even you will have lost faith in him by then. Or you may prefer to continue to view the state of the books as a measure of Wenger's success, rather than winning trophies.

[Bring Back Pires]

The "Who would we get if AW went" line is akin to a housewife, on the receiving end of domestic abuse, worrying that if she left her husband she'd never find anyone ever again. And thus, she hangs on and puts up with it for the rest of her life.

[Number 5]

In my defence, I didn't come in to throw abuse around even if the title could have been a red rag to some. Is there really a big problem with this? This is the attitude I came into the forum with and the reaction I recieved. Some of the dafter responses came from guys who have no doubt created alter ego's ( No5 ), but I remain, no hiding.

This is a warning to anyone coming in with a differing opinion to the majority, you will be shot down by any means.

Saaaay whaaaaat mother fucker? I ain't never had no alter-ego. I donts gots the time for that shit.

Why are you rehashing a thread to which the last reply was nearly a year ago anyway?

You a damn fool.

[northbankbren]

This a position that every other club in the country, bar three, would kill to be in and we shouldn't forget this.

Spot on. We are in a very privileged position. Top 4 every single year.

What other Arsenal manager acheived this?

What makes me laugh is the call for the "glory years", which manager was it again that brought these years to the club?

A lot of our fans have to get REALISTIC and take of the ROSETINTED glasses....we were still in the title race a month ago remember.

We are on a financial leash and have to work within our means.

What world class manager would come and work under the restraints Arsene does?...not many.

[Bring Back Pires]

This a position that every other club in the country, bar three, would kill to be in and we shouldn't forget this.

Spot on. We are in a very privileged position. Top 4 every single year.

Yes, at times recently I have wondered if I'm being slightly selfish moaning about our fortunes when I see my friends watching these relegation battles, and wondering if the club is even going to survive another week.

But you can only judge yourself based on your own expectations. If I'd spent seven years gaining a degree in astronomy, went to the moon and back, and then became a shelf stacker at ASDA, should I just be happy with my lot on the basis that I'm not a tramp or homeless in the third world?

Of course not. It's all relative to each individual's own targets and goals, and I don't think that Arsenal are reaching theirs. Yes, we're in the upper echelons of English football, but after the very high targets that AW decided to set himself earlier in his managerial career with us, it's the least that can be expected.

[donaldo]

Spot on. We are in a very privileged position. Top 4 every single year.

So thats why season tickets are the most expensive in the world.Why Wenger "earns" £4m a year why crap like Walcott is on £67k a week.We really are priviledged.Maybe the club should double season tickit prices because we are so lucky to finish 4 th every season.Why not have an open top bus parade to celebrate

[LDB]

Apparently its fickle to question the direction of the club after 6 trophyless years in which we have turned from an invincible side into top 4 also-rans?

This summer has got to be a real turning point, more and more people i talk to who have previously defended Wenger (myself included) are starting to question things.

My problem is not so much the quality of the players, we are down to our bear bones and every squad has some dross if you get right down to the bottom. Its the fact that far too many of the players just dont give a shit, unless a match is like a contact-less training session they just dont want to know. The invicibles were broken up far too quickly, this current crop has had nobody to give them a massive kick up the arse, nobody to let them know how priveliged they are with their massive wages and state-of-the-art training facilities. They have been molly-coddled for far too long by Wenger and his ludicrous belief that if you remove every possible discomfort for these guys then they can only improve as players. Its bullshit.

But most importantly I hate this idea that the concept of defending is somehow below us. CUT DOWN ON SOME OF THE TIPPY-TAPPY 5-A-SIDE TRAINING SESSIONS AND FUCKING WORK ON SOME DEFENSIVE DRILLING

Wenger has to either start harshly criticising these underachievers both publicly and privately and hire a proper defensive coach or be replaced at the end of his contract, hopefully by David Moyes who knows how to organise a team, develop youth players and play decent football WHEN POSSIBLE/PRACTICAL.

[Jumpers For Goalposts]

It's always surpising to see how fickle our so-called 'fans' are, although I do think this is the worst we've seen such a strong objection to Le Bosses philosophy since he took over. Firstly, I'd like to ask where everyone thinks this club would be without Wenger's management ? Would we have seen such great football, with silverware, without Wenger ? and what would happen to this club without a co-ordinated change in management with Wenger's advice and experience in selecting his successor ?. I think these are questions that need to be answered with a calm head in order to come up with sound answers.
The truth is that the 'masterplan' does look shaky at the moment but I think we need to have enough confidence in Arsene to change this teams' direction, even slightly, if he feels it isn't working. As the situation stands we are 4th and have done well in all Cups, albeit without a trophy. This a position that every other club in the country, bar three, would kill to be in and we shouldn't forget this. Our youth policy, squad potential and value and our financial standing and potential are all amongst the best in the world and this is largely down to Arsene. I know we all know this but I think sometimes our 'fans' need a hand pulling thier heads out of thier backsides, although it's probably a wasted effort with a large percentage of us.
I do see problems with the squad, particularly with the lack of aggression and spirit in the side. A couple of players in the mould of Keown and Parlour would cheer me right up and it looks as though we'll be bringing in some muscle in the summer judging by what the manager has said and if this is the case then we will really be in the title race again. So maybe those who call for 'le bosses' head should sit down and have a long hard think then agree with me !! Wenger Knows !
( These comments are brought out of a fear for my club. If 'fans' push hard enough we usually get what we want, in time. This would be a disaster if I take the majority of comments and blogs I've read of late. )
Up le Arsenal !!![/list]

[/u][/i][/quote]

Unbelievable! Aaron resurrects a thread from 1 year ago in another attempt to let us know how clever he is, how clever Arsene is and how thick anyone that doubts Arsene is.

I have never called for Arsene's head and I'm pretty sure that most "realists" just want him to accept his mistakes and do more to close the gap on Man U and Chelsea.

You mentioned our youth policy and squad potential. Fabianski? Denilson? Diaby? Pennant? Lupoli? Quincy? Is that what you call potential?

You said "it looks as though we'll be bringing in some muscle in the summer (2009)". What muscle was that then Aaron?

And as for your quote - "people should sit down and have a long hard think then agree with me !! Wenger Knows !". What an arrogant git you are. Thousands of people have made their own minds up and they are unhappy with the Club.

* Where I'm unhappy is in watching 2 shit keepers make mistake after mistake but Arsene defends them and refuses to see what everyone else can see.

* Where I'm unhappy is in watching a defence that are talented but cannot work as a unit for 90 minutes.

* Where I'm unhappy is in watching a midfield that stroll through matches - Denilson, Diaby, Eboue = way short of the standard required.

* Where I'm unhappy is in watching talented players like Rosicky, Eduardo and Walcott float around like they're playing street football.

* Where I'm unhappy is in watching a team that always buckles when put under pressure.

* Where I'm unhappy is in watching the majority of the team walk off after an away game without even bothering to acknowledge us when we've travelled miles, spent fortunes and given up our time.

* Where I'm unhappy is in paying up to £90 per match, simply because everyone at the Club has become so greedy.

* Where I'm unhappy is in watching our Board of Directors squabbling amongst themselves.

* And where I'm really unhappy is in listening to the bullshit excuses that Arsene keeps trotting out week after week after week.

So there you go Aaron my old son - I'm not ungrateful or spoilt, I'm thoroughly fucked off with watching Arsenal make the same mistakes over and over again.

[MK Gould]

You see the problem is, people who support Wenger have to remind us all of what he has done MORE THAN 5 YEARS AGO!
That's because he has been shit since then, mild shit to start, up to today when he is utter shit.
Sorted, end of thread.

Sorry but I got this far through the thread and had to respond. How the fuck can you say that Arsene Wenger has been shit for the last 5 years..... We've finished in the top 4 in each of these years, we've made the knock out phase of the CL in most and have been in a CL Final, Semi-Final and at least two Quarter Finals. Now that might be shit for Utd, Barca or Real Madrid, but its hardly shit for us!!

Changing Manager:
- always high risk and most truly successful teams have been the ones who have placed trust in their Manager for the long term and let them get on with it.

Buying Players:
- we could go out and splash the cash in the summer on half a dozen star names and they could be a disaster. Look at the amount of money that Utd have wasted in years gone by. I'd agree that we definitely need 2 or 3 but the money does need to be spent sensibly....

New Owner:
- Abramovitch is the only "newbie" owner who hasn't taken the club backwards....(Villa might just fall into this bracket but they haven't exactly moved forward very quickly either!). Even then I'm sure there are a lot of Chelsea fans who are annoyed that the Russian attracted a Manager of Mourinho's ability then dumped him on a whim and brought them some fairly barren years!
- So I think its fair to assume that any change of ownership is a bad thing until proved otherwise!

The one big change I'd make is to have Arsene pick stronger teams for the Carling and FA Cups and get a trophy in the cabinet again. Lets face it, we could hardly get more injuries than we do at the moment!!

So - while things ain't perfect - change is a massive risk......

[Connolly55]

This a position that every other club in the country, bar three, would kill to be in and we shouldn't forget this.

Spot on. We are in a very privileged position. Top 4 every single year.

Yes, at times recently I have wondered if I'm being slightly selfish moaning about our fortunes when I see my friends watching these relegation battles, and wondering if the club is even going to survive another week.

But you can only judge yourself based on your own expectations. If I'd spent seven years gaining a degree in astronomy, went to the moon and back, and then became a shelf stacker at ASDA, should I just be happy with my lot on the basis that I'm not a tramp or homeless in the third world?

Of course not. It's all relative to each individual's own targets and goals, and I don't think that Arsenal are reaching theirs. Yes, we're in the upper echelons of English football, but after the very high targets that AW decided to set himself earlier in his managerial career with us, it's the least that can be expected.

Thats a good way of putting it. But its true. Yes, Wenger has brought success to the club, but its all about progressing and evolving. United have won titles, ditched the players that couldn't cut it and brought in players to replace them. Where as we have had the players that have been there and done it, but they have now gone for one reason or another, but he has failed to replace them.

[GoonerJim]

yes because a club that has managed the achievements it has had under Wenger should be happy with a place in the top four without really challenging for the title.... perhaps most fans would be happy with this if they werent fleecing fans with the ticket prices they charge. The author of this thread sounds very young to me.

[Its Up 4 Grabs Now]

I’d agree Wenger’s shite period doesn’t stretch the whole of these 5 barren years. Personally I’d say for the first half of that there were enough mitigating circumstances to say he’d done somewhere between a decent to a good job. The break-up of the Invincibles within a year or 2 of the unbeaten season was inevitable & for various reasons only 1 or 2 of that squad could & should have been kept longer than they were. And whatever the financial situation is now I cant believe anyone thinks the budget at that time was anything other than tighter than a nun’s fanny during that period (wrong choice of word at the end there, sorry ). From memory even the board admitted the few seasons either side of the move would be lean financially.

To reach the CL final for the 1st time (albeit we only scraped 4th that year by the burnt skin of a Spud’s rectum) & then put together a team in 07/08 that challenged for the title (against stronger Chav/Manc sides than we’ve seen this season) on a relatively uncompetitive budget was a good achievement in itself. And looking back now, that team played football miles better than anything we’ve seen this season, despite this team having better individual players. But halfway through that season it all went tits up & Wenger hasn’t found the plot again since. Some aspects of his performance since then truly beggar belief and are every bit as bad as some of his earlier achievements were/are genius.

So it’s 2 1/2 years for me rather than 5 that he’s been “shiteâ€

[mikeyb772001]

It's always surpising to see how fickle our so-called 'fans' are, although I do think this is the worst we've seen such a strong objection to Le Bosses philosophy since he took over. Firstly, I'd like to ask where everyone thinks this club would be without Wenger's management ? Would we have seen such great football, with silverware, without Wenger ? and what would happen to this club without a co-ordinated change in management with Wenger's advice and experience in selecting his successor ?. I think these are questions that need to be answered with a calm head in order to come up with sound answers.
The truth is that the 'masterplan' does look shaky at the moment but I think we need to have enough confidence in Arsene to change this teams' direction, even slightly, if he feels it isn't working. As the situation stands we are 4th and have done well in all Cups, albeit without a trophy. This a position that every other club in the country, bar three, would kill to be in and we shouldn't forget this. Our youth policy, squad potential and value and our financial standing and potential are all amongst the best in the world and this is largely down to Arsene. I know we all know this but I think sometimes our 'fans' need a hand pulling thier heads out of thier backsides, although it's probably a wasted effort with a large percentage of us.
I do see problems with the squad, particularly with the lack of aggression and spirit in the side. A couple of players in the mould of Keown and Parlour would cheer me right up and it looks as though we'll be bringing in some muscle in the summer judging by what the manager has said and if this is the case then we will really be in the title race again. So maybe those who call for 'le bosses' head should sit down and have a long hard think then agree with me !! Wenger Knows !
( These comments are brought out of a fear for my club. If 'fans' push hard enough we usually get what we want, in time. This would be a disaster if I take the majority of comments and blogs I've read of late. )
Up le Arsenal !!![/list]

[/u][/i][/quote]

Your chatting rubbish mate, what you’re saying doesn’t make sense and you are contradicting yourself.
Get your rose tinted glasses off and smell the coffee!
Next you will agree with Wenger live on TV, in front of millions and say Flappy had a good game, and also that he doesn’t see midfield as a problem.

[xDAVEYx]

aaron, aaron...