PAT RICE

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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Rocky Number Seven
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Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:23 am
Location: North Bank, Turnstile D, Block 7, Row 8, Seat 225 / Essex

Post by Rocky Number Seven »

Its Up 4 Grabs Now wrote:
Rocky Number Seven wrote:Couldn't have said it better DB10, Pat is there to help Wenger out. He prepares the players before the game and also makes sure that if we make any changes during a game the players on the pitch are informed of their role. He is a go between for the players and somebody they can look up to. He is not there to question the boss's tactical awareness or ability. I for one would not want him moved on and like the fact that we have an Arsenal legend as an important part of the backroom staff.
To be a successful manager to need to have various different strengths & qualities. And where they’re lacking in certain areas a good, strong manager will be able to identify those weak spots & assemble a management team that together can bring all the necessary attributes to the table. And, just as importantly, delegate enough responsibility & control to them in order to make proper use of them.

Whether it’s cos PR doesn’t bring much to the table, or cos Wenger’s too autocratic to ultimately take other people’s opinions on board the net result is that the weaknesses in Wenger’s management aren’t being balanced out. Personally I’d guess it’s the latter. I refuse to believe PR, as a former right-back, doesn’t know a thing or 2 about defending. At least enough to identify the problems we’ve had in the full-back areas.

But to suggest Pat Rice’s role should only be as a go-between, with no remit to offer any form of tactical assistance etc seems more demeaning to PR than questioning his role.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting PR should be held to blame, just that his apparent lack of any real influence on Wenger is another symptom of the problem with Wenger’s own management - not recognising his own weaknesses, not being strong enough to cede any form of control etc.
Rocky Number Seven wrote:Only problem I have with that rigsby is that if those coaches are so good and could manage themselves then why arent they?
Some people just aren’t cut out to be a number one, they might have the tactical awareness but lack the presence to be a leader & so on.
Good post IU4G but think you have misinterpreted my post somewhat. I never said he didnt have any form of tactical assistance at any point, in fact I implied the opposite when saying he makes sure the players are aware of their role. I feel that where I have been supporting Pats role within the team you believe I am knocking him for being somebody the players can approach and admire as an arsenal legend which definitely isnt the case.

Just wanted to clear that up but couldnt agree more with your last paragraph outlining that AW does not recognise his own weaknesses, which for me is a real worry. But would another coach coming in make any difference to his beleaguered beliefs? I doubt it.

Its Up 4 Grabs Now
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Post by Its Up 4 Grabs Now »

Rocky Number Seven wrote:think you have misinterpreted my post somewhat. I never said he didnt have any form of tactical assistance at any point, in fact I implied the opposite when saying he makes sure the players are aware of their role. I feel that where I have been supporting Pats role within the team you believe I am knocking him for being somebody the players can approach and admire as an arsenal legend which definitely isnt the case.
Yeah tbh I read "making sure the players are aware of their role" as basically meaning passing on Wenger's instructions, rather than having any influence on what Wenger's instructions might actually be. Fair enough R#7. 8)
Rocky Number Seven wrote:Just wanted to clear that up but couldnt agree more with your last paragraph outlining that AW does not recognise his own weaknesses, which for me is a real worry. But would another coach coming in make any difference to his beleaguered beliefs? I doubt it.
In short, no. Which is one more reason to believe nothing's gonna change anytime soon. :(

A dallying Gus Caesar
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Location: Chelmsford

Post by A dallying Gus Caesar »

goonersid wrote:Here we go again! blame the monkey not the organ grinder. :banghead:
I'm blaming both the monkey and the organ grinder.

A dallying Gus Caesar
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:49 pm
Location: Chelmsford

Post by A dallying Gus Caesar »

flash gunner wrote:Yep its all Pat rice' fault and in no way Wengers :banghead:
Don't be daft. Like the previous poster has stated, Pat's role has to be questioned. If he is seeing that things are not right and telling Wenger this, only to be ignored then why is he on the payroll? he should walk. Alternatively, if he ain't seeing the issues that lead to our malaise then why is he on the payroll?

No one knows what happened with Ray Wilkins, but is it possible, just possible, that the Russian was not convinced that Ray was up to it, and bang he is gone. fancy that, an owner/board making a decision! You won't have to worry about anyone questioning personnel at our club. Too cushy by half I am afraid.

A dallying Gus Caesar
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:49 pm
Location: Chelmsford

Post by A dallying Gus Caesar »

Rocky Number Seven wrote:
rigsby wrote:Bollocks.

Look at Fergie's assistants and Chelsea's the past few years, all been credited with genuinely having an impact on the team. Nobody is saying its necessarily Pat Rice's fault, its just Wenger needs to bring in TOP draw coaches. Coaches who could be managers themselves
Only problem I have with that rigsby is that if those coaches are so good and could manage themselves then why arent they? And the ones who do have a decent tactical brain often end up getting snapped up to manage elsewhere anyway. At the end of the day we are one of the top clubs in europe and our manager should be competant enough to not need any help with the tactical side of the game.
Peter Taylor anyone? (sure Cloughy would have been more than happy to regale you with stories of how good he was)

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