The Rooney Rule

[Babatunde]

oh no, not many black or asian managers in the football league, we must make english clubs interview at least one minority , then no-one can be accused of prejudice!



the world is a better place now, thanks pc brigade . next stop: force clubs to employ at least 10 physically handicapped ballboys. yes they won't be very quick at getting the ball back into play, but we mustn't be discriminatory

You see this is a complete fuckwit response.

I get the point this smacks of positive discrimination, which is a contradiction in terms.

However, with the exception of Andre Villas Boas, all managerial jobs seem to be restricted to former players. Black Football players are at last count 1 in 4 of all footballers, yet there are 2 black managers out of 92 - vastly under-represented.

There wouldn't be a need for this measure if former black players were ever considered - and it is quite clear that they are not.

Why are they not? Because football clubs are mostly run by old white bourgeois men who not too long ago could talk of black people having physical but lacking mental attributes without censure. Don't believe me? See Ron Noades in 1991: 'The black players at this club lend the side a lot of skill and flair, but you also need white players in there to balance things up and give the team some brains and some common sense' - this is a man who chooses who becomes a manager of football side in one of the top four divisions in English Football - any wonder why there are so few?

Henry Norris.

If brains were taxed, you'd get a rebate. HRM Customs' Inland Revenue would be donating oodles of cash to you in fact, so best get on the phone to the IRS quick.

I think your comments are fucking scandalous. You've managed to equate giving ethnic minorities an OPPORTUNITY to getting handicapped ballboys to do a job. I will repeat that: you are comparing ethnic minorities to the handicapped.

Being an ethnic minority is not tantamount to a physical affliction you fucking retard.

The next point I take umbrage with, is the one where you basically clearly insinuate that giving ethnic minorities an opportunity to interview for a role (do you understand the difference you clown?) means that you would be instantly guilty of giving far less capable people a chance at a job.

Read what you wrote again. This isn't someone being 'PC' you numpty. Your point and analogy is very clear and someone else has noticed it. You're bang out of order, yet I bet you're not such a postulating turd-breath in real life are you? On second thoughts...

Your points are antiquated and disgusting. Is your dad Roy Chubby Brown or something? Or did you write that asinine comment on your iPhone live from the latest EDL march? Your comments might as well have come out of a Daily Mail writer's mouth, or Nick Grififn himself.

Next you'll be telling us that nasty immigrants are responsible for cholera, famine and Wenger being a shit manager. Oh wait....

TWAT

You're a disgrace to Arsenal fans with views like that. You almost forget that those 'ethnic minorities' who performed so admirable for Arsenal over the years weren't as 'handicapped as ballboys' in their playing days hmmm? Or do the names Wright, Henry, Vieira, Silva, Davis, Campbell, Cole, Lauren and Toure slip your imbecilic radar?

If all those players could play, then there is a CHANCE they could manage.

No one is asking for black managers to get jobs unfairly ahead of a white manager. If you wanna push that fatuous bollocks then talk to your pals down at the EDL. I think your reaction to this thread says a lot about your education.

Some people like Sunderland man have disagreed with the ruling but made excellent NON-RACIST points in doing so. What you said is scandalous but no doubt I'll be to blame for that

[SWLGooner]

At what point did the EDL become a fascist organisation fella? I actually agree with you I thought Henry's point was out of order, but EDL and BNP are very much different types IMO

[xDAVEYx]

wow, who'd have thought that a thread on such a contentious issue could descend into bigotry and political point scoring

[Babatunde]

SWL. EDL are classed as a far right party mate. They're known for Islamophobic views, violence to Muslims in street protests and links with the most unsavoury extremist groups in Holland, Italy, Germany and the NF in France. Don't be fooled, the UAF has openly stated they are one of the biggest threats to harmonious culturalism.

They're just smarter than the BNP! (not hard)

This thread has predictably gone one way though, yawn...

[xDAVEYx]

SWL. EDL are classed as a far right party mate. They're known for Islamophobic views, violence to Muslims in street protests and links with the most unsavoury extremist groups in Holland, Italy, Germany and the NF in France. Don't be fooled, the UAF has openly stated they are one of the biggest threats to harmonious culturalism.

They're just smarter than the BNP! (not hard)

This thread has predictably gone one way though, yawn...

party? wouldn't give them that, it's bordering on political legitimacy. i much prefer 'collective of racist scumbags'...

[SWLGooner]

SWL. EDL are classed as a far right party mate. They're known for Islamophobic views, violence to Muslims in street protests and links with the most unsavoury extremist groups in Holland, Italy, Germany and the NF in France. Don't be fooled, the UAF has openly stated they are one of the biggest threats to harmonious culturalism.

They're just smarter than the BNP! (not hard)

This thread has predictably gone one way though, yawn...

Goes both ways though mate. Sure you get scum at EDL events, and I'm not EDL myself, but I nonetheless feel they get an unfair rep in the press as opposed to what they are actually about.

Fair enough, you get racist scum at the EDL who go after Muslims, but you also get things like the two EDL members stabbed recently in Edgware Road.

Is there a problem with being right wing? And as for 'far right' and the implied connotations, I would say that that is largely a media fallacy.

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/inde ... full/98004

Obviously that link being the Daily Star, and the only alternative being the Guardian there's a certain slant to it, but there you go.

I would not consider attending EDL demos as I feel there are too many there who are not staying to the EDL's message and are using it as a platform to air their views, which are as you say racist and far right, but I would say that in terms of its original purpose and the actions of those 'proper EDL', such as the leaders, do not deserve the media condemnation that they get.

And why are you using the UAF as a source? As much as I despise the scum among the EDL, UAF are equally bad if not worse.

[Never Outgunned]

At what point did the EDL become a fascist organisation fella? I actually agree with you I thought Henry's point was out of order, but EDL and BNP are very much different types IMO

The EDL are Diet BNP, BNP Lite, I Can't Believe it's not BNP.

If they're really bothered about Islamic Fundamentalism they'd be protesting against Cameron funding rebels in Libya which by the admission of our intelligence services include Islamists who fought our troops in Iraq.

If they are really bothered about Islamic Fundamentalism they'd be protesting against Western client state and limb amptuating Saudi Arabia - who lest we forget are the only state to ban Chrsitianity - from their invasion and occupation of Bahrain in order to stop western style secular democracy flourishing in the Arabian Peninsular.

The reason they're not is because neither would involve 'kicking off with pakis' which is what the EDL is about.

Don't believe me? See the EDL trash this restaurant in Leicester

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxdTEVzzr_s

Or was there a non-fascist reason for doing so which involved protest against militant Islam - maybe Bin Laden was having a Halal Burger in there at the time.

[Never Outgunned]

I'm not EDL myself, but I nonetheless feel they get an unfair rep in the press as opposed to what they are actually about.

They get no such thing.

They're a disingenuous rabble of far right thugs.

They turn up with a reds under the bed style message claiming Islamic fundamentalism is everywhere, when the incident which they claim led to their founding involved just 35 muslim fundamentalist idiots out of the 2 million that live in the UK.

They talk about unity and inclusion and yet have a former BNP member as a founder and leader who goes under the pseudonym of a football hooligan.

With the Great Depression Mk II, the EDL are Oswald Moseley's Fascist Blackshirts Mk II with their message of persecuting an ethnic minority group as a distraction from Global turmoil.

[LDB]

Lets cut the crap.

Football management is one of those professions where those with experience monopolise the vast majority of the jobs until they retire. Look at the old boys club that run most premier league clubs.

Now, as someone pointed out earlier in the thread, the emergence of blacks in English football is barely 20 years old, i wouldn't expect this to start filtering into management for the next 5-10 years at the earliest. If it doesn't then i would argue its because potential black managers have assumed they wont make it before they've even tried. The irony is that its the discourse of the people who are trying to get them jobs that would probably have led them to think this way. But whatever, i simply dont believe there is any institutional racism left in English football. In fact, i reckon most clubs would snap your arm off for a quality, experienced black manager as it would be quite a PR success.

[Never Outgunned]

the emergence of blacks in English football is barely 20 years old, i wouldn't expect this to start filtering into management for the next 5-10 years at the earliest.

Sorry that's nonsense.

The first wave of black footballers retired nearly 20 years ago themselves.

There's scores of retired black footballers and yet on the management front they're invisible.

[LDB]

the emergence of blacks in English football is barely 20 years old, i wouldn't expect this to start filtering into management for the next 5-10 years at the earliest.

Sorry that's nonsense.

The first wave of black footballers retired nearly 20 years ago themselves.

There's scores of retired black footballers and yet on the management front they're invisible.

And no doubt that generation faced considerable institutional and general racism. Not the case today and as such i would expect black representation among football managers to be heading only one way, which is up. The speed at which it will increase im not sure.

Let me put the question like this: Do you honestly think people today are being turned down for management jobs because of the colour of their skin? I may be being naive but im not buying it for a second.

Imagine a black manager is appointed to a mid-range premier league or championship club tomorrow, who is going to take against the appointment? The fans? The vast vast majority have moved on and become accustomed to idolising black players, why not managers? Unlikely to be much of an uproar here. Players? Unlikely considering the ethnic composition of most clubs playing staff already. Boards? They are businessmen and would no way turn down the best candidate on grounds of race unless they strongly suspected a backlash from their customers/staff.

So where is this institutional racism coming from? You're going to have to help me out here, i know ive had a few glasses of vino but im just not seeing it. I can only speculate as to why there hasnt been a rebalancing sooner but what i am relatively certain of is that this idea misses the point.

[Never Outgunned]

the emergence of blacks in English football is barely 20 years old, i wouldn't expect this to start filtering into management for the next 5-10 years at the earliest.

Sorry that's nonsense.

The first wave of black footballers retired nearly 20 years ago themselves.

There's scores of retired black footballers and yet on the management front they're invisible.

And no doubt that generation faced considerable institutional and general racism. Not the case today and as such i would expect black representation among football managers to be heading only one way, which is up. The speed at which it will increase im not sure.

Let me put the question like this: Do you honestly think people today are being turned down for management jobs because of the colour of their skin? I may be being naive but im not buying it for a second.

Imagine a black manager is appointed to a mid-range premier league or championship club tomorrow, who is going to take against the appointment? The fans? The vast vast majority have moved on and become accustomed to idolising black players, why not managers? Unlikely to be much of an uproar here. Players? Unlikely considering the ethnic composition of most clubs playing staff already. Boards? They are businessmen and would no way turn down the best candidate on grounds of race unless they strongly suspected a backlash from their customers/staff.

So where is this institutional racism coming from? You're going to have to help me out here, i know ive had a few glasses of vino but im just not seeing it. I can only speculate as to why there hasnt been a rebalancing sooner but what i am relatively certain of is that this idea misses the point.

We've got virtually the same number of black managers as we had 10 years ago, so all this it will come in time stuff is nonsense.

Do I think former players are not being offered jobs because of the colour of their skin?

See the Ron Noades quote again will you - even though it was 20 years ago, but for a few oligarchs at the top end of football, much of who runs the football clubs are the same sections of society - old white bourgeois men.

Yes black players overcame the racism to make it on the field, but I don't think people with a stereotyped view of black people have ever odds that black people can do physical stuff. They've always odds that black people have the mental attributes - largely what you need to be a football manager.

So yes, Black players are being streotyped, are being discriminated against and are being overlooked for managerial positions.

See the Talksport footage I've posted earlier - would Paul Davis have had a coaching position had he been a white player? Of course he would. He's as highly qualified as it gets in coaching and yet can't find a managerial post - even at say Dagenham.

[Never Outgunned]

the emergence of blacks in English football is barely 20 years old, i wouldn't expect this to start filtering into management for the next 5-10 years at the earliest.

Sorry that's nonsense.

The first wave of black footballers retired nearly 20 years ago themselves.

There's scores of retired black footballers and yet on the management front they're invisible.

And no doubt that generation faced considerable institutional and general racism. Not the case today and as such i would expect black representation among football managers to be heading only one way, which is up. The speed at which it will increase im not sure.

Let me put the question like this: Do you honestly think people today are being turned down for management jobs because of the colour of their skin? I may be being naive but im not buying it for a second.

Imagine a black manager is appointed to a mid-range premier league or championship club tomorrow, who is going to take against the appointment? The fans? The vast vast majority have moved on and become accustomed to idolising black players, why not managers? Unlikely to be much of an uproar here. Players? Unlikely considering the ethnic composition of most clubs playing staff already. Boards? They are businessmen and would no way turn down the best candidate on grounds of race unless they strongly suspected a backlash from their customers/staff.

So where is this institutional racism coming from? You're going to have to help me out here, i know ive had a few glasses of vino but im just not seeing it. I can only speculate as to why there hasnt been a rebalancing sooner but what i am relatively certain of is that this idea misses the point.

We've got virtually the same number of black managers as we had 10 years ago, so all this it will come in time stuff is nonsense.

Do I think former players are not being offered jobs because of the colour of their skin?

See the Ron Noades quote again will you - even though it was 20 years ago, but for a few oligarchs at the top end of football, much of who runs the football clubs are the same sections of society - old white bourgeois men.

Yes black players overcame the racism to make it on the field, but I don't think people with a stereotyped view of black people have ever odds that black people can do physical stuff. They've always odds that black people have the mental attributes - largely what you need to be a football manager.

So yes, Black players are being streotyped, are being discriminated against and are being overlooked for managerial positions.

See the Talksport footage I've posted earlier - would Paul Davis have had a coaching position had he been a white player? Of course he would. He's as highly qualified as it gets in coaching and yet can't find a managerial post - even at say Dagenham.

[LDB]

the emergence of blacks in English football is barely 20 years old, i wouldn't expect this to start filtering into management for the next 5-10 years at the earliest.

Sorry that's nonsense.

The first wave of black footballers retired nearly 20 years ago themselves.

There's scores of retired black footballers and yet on the management front they're invisible.

And no doubt that generation faced considerable institutional and general racism. Not the case today and as such i would expect black representation among football managers to be heading only one way, which is up. The speed at which it will increase im not sure.

Let me put the question like this: Do you honestly think people today are being turned down for management jobs because of the colour of their skin? I may be being naive but im not buying it for a second.

Imagine a black manager is appointed to a mid-range premier league or championship club tomorrow, who is going to take against the appointment? The fans? The vast vast majority have moved on and become accustomed to idolising black players, why not managers? Unlikely to be much of an uproar here. Players? Unlikely considering the ethnic composition of most clubs playing staff already. Boards? They are businessmen and would no way turn down the best candidate on grounds of race unless they strongly suspected a backlash from their customers/staff.

So where is this institutional racism coming from? You're going to have to help me out here, i know ive had a few glasses of vino but im just not seeing it. I can only speculate as to why there hasnt been a rebalancing sooner but what i am relatively certain of is that this idea misses the point.

We've got virtually the same number of black managers as we had 10 years ago, so all this it will come in time stuff is nonsense.

Do I think former players are not being offered jobs because of the colour of their skin?

See the Ron Noades quote again will you - even though it was 20 years ago, but for a few oligarchs at the top end of football, much of who runs the football clubs are the same sections of society - old white bourgeois men.

Yes black players overcame the racism to make it on the field, but I don't think people with a stereotyped view of black people have ever odds that black people can do physical stuff. They've always odds that black people have the mental attributes - largely what you need to be a football manager.

So yes, Black players are being streotyped, are being discriminated against and are being overlooked for managerial positions.

See the Talksport footage I've posted earlier - would Paul Davis have had a coaching position had he been a white player? Of course he would. He's as highly qualified as it gets in coaching and yet can't find a managerial post - even at say Dagenham.

Just had a little listen to that paul davis piece to get the general jist and to to be honest mate, i wouldn't be pinning much on it if i were you. He talks alot about his perceptions and the perceptions of similar prospective black managers as assuming they wont make it before they have even tried. Paul davis pointed to the statistics as a demotivator when he stopped playing and he has a point - football and this country as a whole had massive racism issues until the 90s when things started to turn but if these guys are just going to look at the statistics and give up then im not sure what more can be done.

Football management is probably one of the hardest industries to crack into in the world and if people are going in with a negative mindset and thinking every rejection is because of their race then they wont last very long.

[Never Outgunned]

Just had a little listen to that paul davis piece to get the general jist and to to be honest mate, i wouldn't be pinning much on it if i were you. He talks alot about his perceptions and the perceptions of similar prospective black managers as assuming they wont make it before they have even tried. Paul davis pointed to the statistics as a demotivator when he stopped playing and he has a point - football and this country as a whole had massive racism issues until the 90s when things started to turn but if these guys are just going to look at the statistics and give up then im not sure what more can be done.

Football management is probably one of the hardest industries to crack into in the world and if people are going in with a negative mindset and thinking every rejection is because of their race then they wont last very long.

Firstly - this country had massive racism issues until the 90s when things started to turn? Sorry was racism abolished in 1993?

Secondly - if you listen to what Davis said on that players stated why should we dedicate years of our lives to something which we still won't be considered for at the end of it.

If anything Davis is the poster boy for this - he's spent many years obtaining the highest qualifications you can obtain in coaching and he's still getting passed over for lesser qualified coaches - some repeatedly sacked for incompetance but quickly given another shot elsewhere.

You may want to blame the discriminated against for this, I don't. I blame the discriminators - 25% black footballers, 2% black managers speaks for itself.

I assume you're white (and so am I for the record) so it's very easy to point fingers at people for not trying when even with all the effort in the world the odds are massively against them. Can you accuse Davis of not trying to secure a coaching job?

I don't quite understand people's mentality here, you spent the best part of a decade cheering the guy on while he was in the red and white, once he's off the pitch and quite obviously being denied the opportunity to fulfill his potential then apathy rules OK and the bloke should just try harder - just because you feel secure in the knowledge that you won't be experiencing something similar anytime soon.