THE WENGER THREAD

[markyp]

rjw 1985 past glories count for little,keeping a manager who was once great out of sympathy or because of memories is ridiculous,Arsenal football club has stood still for 10 years now,do you think we can win another title under Wenger let alone the CL?? Remember Nottingham Forest and Brian Clough? they won the league and conquered Europe,something weve never managed but after the glory years came the steady decline with mid table mediocrity followed by relegation,do you think looking back that forest were right to keep clough as manager even when they were garbage and the football was dire?the brainwashed forest fans thought he was the messiah,ask them now how they feel and if clough should have gone earlier,with a clear head I think you will find they realise now that he was finished years before he retired,it looks pretty sad looking back to think they kept faith in him even though they were failing at every level,well we are the new Nottingham Forest,the glory years are long gone,everybody else is hoovering up the trophies while we stagnate,Wenger has to go,sentiment cant be allowed to cloud your judgement,he is no longer a coveted manager,more of a figure to poke fun at,and with just 3 months left on his contract why is no other club banging down the door to hire him??

Yeah cos it's all been rosy at Nottingham Forest since he left

Yes I think he can win the PL again or CL, that's why I'm backing him

are you on the spectrum?

[Kvltman]

rjw1985, honest question for you. Do you honestly feel that Wenger's in and pre game tactics are now up to scratch with the likes of Conte, Mourinho etc?

I would be interested to know the thoughts of someone on this who still backs him, as it would appear extremely often that we do not plan for individual opponents and persist with the same formation no matter what.

One notable match where we did (against Man City away a couple of years ago, a 2-0 win) Wenger even admitted that some of the players approached him before the match to ask for the tactics to be altered. Do you think this is surely the role of the manager/head coach to have in place anyway? That is quite an admission to make.

In the Chelsea match recently our fullbacks were both bombing forward at the same time like they did in the 6-0 loss there a few years ago. Then there are multiple admissions by the manager abou the players not being mentally prepared or ready after defeats, again surely something he is responsible for.

I do think there are great players in this squad and with more direction, motivation and being better prepared they could perhaps transition from falling short to winning the bigger prizes. This is why many fans whilst remaining respectful of Wenger's achievements would like to see a coach brought in who can bring all the pre match preparation and in game strategy to the table.

As a pro Wenger man (they are an endangered species here!) it would be good to see what you make of Wenger's tactics etc

[rjw1985]

Plus who do you think was responsible for innovating and updating the training techniques etc. of old

Wenger is widely credited for helping English football change immensely in that respect

Wenger revolutionised English football around the turn of the century, only problem with that is it's been revolutionised at least twice more since and he's still playing with the same hand.

Said nobody, ever

Seriously though who revolutionised football twice since Wenger? Be honest as I think that was just a throwaway comment without any substance to it at all

Think we can all agree he was ground breaking when he started albeit with a superb GG defence already in place....and won trophies with some wonderful football, a big change in culture at the club took place

No one called us boring Arsenal anymore...which i hated

BUT.....we have lost our way considerably, and need a change desperately, it has to happen, Wenger is 67 now and outdated in ideas, being surpassed by new younger tacticians.....Agreed we need to appoint the right man to follow on, but dont be afraid of change

Thanks for the memories , TIME FOR CHANGE

Yes he certainly was groundbreaking and no we certainly were not boring. That we can all agree on.

I can accept that you feel it is time to change, I think he should get another year, but that aside who in your opinion is the right man for the job?

[rjw1985]

rjw 1985 past glories count for little,keeping a manager who was once great out of sympathy or because of memories is ridiculous,Arsenal football club has stood still for 10 years now,do you think we can win another title under Wenger let alone the CL?? Remember Nottingham Forest and Brian Clough? they won the league and conquered Europe,something weve never managed but after the glory years came the steady decline with mid table mediocrity followed by relegation,do you think looking back that forest were right to keep clough as manager even when they were garbage and the football was dire?the brainwashed forest fans thought he was the messiah,ask them now how they feel and if clough should have gone earlier,with a clear head I think you will find they realise now that he was finished years before he retired,it looks pretty sad looking back to think they kept faith in him even though they were failing at every level,well we are the new Nottingham Forest,the glory years are long gone,everybody else is hoovering up the trophies while we stagnate,Wenger has to go,sentiment cant be allowed to cloud your judgement,he is no longer a coveted manager,more of a figure to poke fun at,and with just 3 months left on his contract why is no other club banging down the door to hire him??

Yeah cos it's all been rosy at Nottingham Forest since he left

Yes I think he can win the PL again or CL, that's why I'm backing him

are you on the spectrum?

don't start insulting me again, that's is terribly derogatory

[Redarmy]

Plus who do you think was responsible for innovating and updating the training techniques etc. of old

Wenger is widely credited for helping English football change immensely in that respect

Wenger revolutionised English football around the turn of the century, only problem with that is it's been revolutionised at least twice more since and he's still playing with the same hand.

Said nobody, ever

Seriously though who revolutionised football twice since Wenger? Be honest as I think that was just a throwaway comment without any substance to it at all

Think we can all agree he was ground breaking when he started albeit with a superb GG defence already in place....and won trophies with some wonderful football, a big change in culture at the club took place

No one called us boring Arsenal anymore...which i hated

BUT.....we have lost our way considerably, and need a change desperately, it has to happen, Wenger is 67 now and outdated in ideas, being surpassed by new younger tacticians.....Agreed we need to appoint the right man to follow on, but dont be afraid of change

Thanks for the memories , TIME FOR CHANGE

Yes he certainly was groundbreaking and no we certainly were not boring. That we can all agree on.

I can accept that you feel it is time to change, I think he should get another year, but that aside who in your opinion is the right man for the job?

I like the look of Allegri...if they can get him....Simeone would be interesting certainly shake the players out of there comfort zone
We can move on we are the World Famous Arsenal, not spurs or chelsea.......we will be successful again

[Belfast Boy]

RJW1985
I was one of of the diehard AKB's I lasted all the way up to 2011 and seeing as we're all displaying our mathematical prowess today, that is SIX years ago so that meant I had to eat humble pie and swallow my pride and finally give up on the once great man and it's not an easy thing to change your position when you have spent five years defending AW to the hilt thru the first half of his mediocre second decade against Augie but the simple fact was I simply couldn't find any credible way of defending him anymore and yet he is still in charge in 2017??? the manager's position is now totally and utterly untenable and in reality when you discount the sentiment has been for a long time mate!

AW's greatest feat was the Invincibles but it's becoming clearer by the season the part the leaders already at the club played in that success as TH14 has said on numerous occasions that when he arrived at the club he fully admitted to looking down his nose at Adams, Parlour, Keown etc. and sayin to himself "these guys are not athletes" but when it came to matchday their workrate and commitment to the shirt put him to shame and it influenced him to become the player that would regularly display chest thumping passion on the pitch especially and most crucially when it mattered, and gradually that most crucial of ingredients the will to win as everyone knows sport is at least 80 - 90% mental attitude has ebbed away, as the saying goes hard work will always overcome talent when talent does not work hard!

So to cut thru all the bullshit, I've copied and pasted an article from last month's Gooner as it represents the views on this forum in a forensic fashion allowing you to if you would care to, to address the points in a similar fashion all I can say is good luck chum and welcome to the forum!

Arsène Wenger is in a unique position when compared to the “elite” cabal of Premier League managers. It is only correct, considering Wenger’s wages (£8.5 million basic plus bonuses; only Mourinho is on more), that he is numbered among the elite. We also need to consider that Arsenal fans are charged more than any others in European football, so the expectation- benchmark absolutely has to be higher, with a minimum of excuses.

We need to analyse Arsène Wenger’s tenure factually over an extended period. The past two to three years would be the most relevant but, for the sake of a full picture, we can take a snapshot of ten years and analyse, without any emotional baggage, whether there is any justifiable case for offering Wenger a contract extension. So, let’s look at the key metrics on which any elite manager should be judged. If there is disagreement with using such ambitious metrics, that in itself will offer up a whole new question about why a club charging world-class prices should tell its supporters to harbor Everton-like expectations.

Trophies (real ones, not virtual ones)
The main benchmark for assessing elite managers has, and always will be, trophies. Not fourth-place trophies, but the big ones on which elite managers are judged - the PL and the CL. If the FA Cup was ever going to be a benchmark of managerial excellence, then Tim Sherwood, Steve Bruce, Harry Redknapp and Alan Pardew – who have between them managed four of the worst Premier League sides in recent history - would still be in jobs. As would Louis Van Gaal, who actually won the thing (and was then sacked). Arsène Wenger has failed completely in the Premier League, as seen by his record of zero trophies in over a decade. Plenty of his diminishing band of excuse-makers like to use “financial resources” as an excuse for the failure here, but Claudio Ranieri pretty much put this laughable argument to rest by winning the Premier League title with a team that cost less than one Mesut Ozil. Further, Leicester’s wage bill of £48m in their title season, is exactly half what the Arsenal wage bill was as far back as 2008, two years after moving into the Emirates. In that time, elite managers like Ancelotti, Mourinho, Ferguson, as well as Pellegrini and Mancini, have all won the title numerous times. In fact, in a unique season where Manchester United, Liverpool, Man City and Chelsea all unbelievably took the season off, Wenger still managed to finish ten points behind Leicester City. To add insult to injury, in a decade, Arsenal under Wenger have not put in one single credible title challenge – which is scandalous, considering Brendan Rodgers managed one, as did Pochettino last season. For all avoidance of doubt, a “title challenge” involves having a mathematical chance of winning the league title in April (not being top in October). This has not been the case at Arsenal for over ten years, which is unacceptable.

The CL record is even more ridiculous. Wenger likes to boast about his “qualification record” but oddly enough fails ever to mention how many times he has actually won the CL. So I’m here to help; Arsène Wenger has never won the CL. In fact, his record over the past six or seven years has been so pathetic that Arsenal have a worse progression record in that period than APOEL Nicosia, Spurs, Porto, Monaco, PSV, Atletico (all financially inferior teams, all quarter-finalists in that period). Arsenal are consistently eliminated the minute they face a quality team in the last 16; and this will almost certainly happen again this season. In that period they have faced easy knock-out draws against the likes of Deportivo, PSV, Monaco and have lost every single one. Wenger’s lack of tactical ability and intelligence is the only reason that a manager who once had a team with Bergkamp, Vieira, Henry, Cole, Campbell, Pires etc could not win it in a season that Porto and Monaco contested the final. For a manager on £8.5 million a year, this is beyond unacceptable.

Player recruitment and management
I think it’s safe to say that Arsène Wenger’s performances in the transfer window have become an exemplary study in how not to use the window. Again, the evidence here is enormous, but the ones that come to mind are the ludicrous Suarez debacle, the refusal to pay Madrid the £30m asking-fee for Higuain (he was then sold for more than double that a few years later), the ridiculous desperate trolley-dash after the infamous 8-2 at Old Trafford that saw the club waste money on a number of players who delivered nothing for the club. In terms of managing big personalities and ego, it has become abundantly clear that since the last great leader left Arsenal (Patrick Vieira), Arsène Wenger has led a rudderless ship. That there is no leadership on the field, or off, is apparent to all but the most blinkered. The number of league titles Wenger has managed since shunning true leadership in Vieira, speaks volumes. The most alarming thing has been the haemorrhaging of the few world-class players Arsenal have had, and the damaging effect it has had on the perception of Wenger and the club’s mindset.

Fabregas leaves, and has won two league titles since (and is now on the verge of a third). Nasri left the same summer and again, won two league titles at City. Ashley Cole was unforgivably sold to Chelsea and won the Champions League and various league titles. Robin Van Persie (the last quality striker the club had) was gift-wrapped to Alex Ferguson and immediately picked up a league title. It is becoming apparent that Alexis Sanchez will follow suit and rightly so – any ambitious player of top quality will not waste his time under Wenger as the standards are too low.

Wenger’s management of players is detrimental and the constant glut of muscle injuries in the same manner at the same stage of every season is not coincidental. Nor is it coincidental that Jack Wilshere has managed more minutes in four months at Bournemouth than he did over two years under Wenger. Wenger runs players into the ground without rest, and then reacts with surprise when they break down. His in-game management is beyond unacceptable for a so-called elite manager. His effect on matches is negligible, half-time team talks often seem to make the team worse (see Everton away and City this season), substitutions are pre-planned for the 70th minute and do not ever seem to reflect the reality of the match taking place.

Individual results
The multitude of scandalous results this past decade cannot go unmentioned - drawing 4-4 at Newcastle despite being 4-0 up. Losing 8-2 at Manchester United would see any elite manager sacked on the spot, no excuses. Losing at Old Trafford to David Moyes’ Manchester United such is the weak mentality of Wenger (the only top-seven side to lose to Moyes that season). Losing 6-3 at City, then 5-1 at Anfield, then 6-0 at Stamford Bridge all in the same season (the 6-0 was on his 1000th game). He was also thrashed 3-0 at Everton that same season. Drawing 4-4 at home to Spurs despite being 4-2 up in stoppage time, Van Persie scoring a 105th minute stoppage time penalty against Liverpool and failing to win the game, getting knocked out of the CL at Anfield by conceding 30 seconds after being through on away goals after scoring an 89th minute equalizer, a number of thrashings at Bayern, losing at home to Olympiakos (no English side had ever lost at home to them), losing at Zagreb in the CL (they had not won a single CL game in a decade), drawing 4-4 at Anfield despite Arshavin scoring a 90th minute winner, drawing 3-3 at home to Anderlecht despite being 3-0 up etc… no manager can call himself elite, and yet oversee such a farcical string of results over a sustained period. It is shameful. As recently as last week we had the comical spectre of Wenger praising his team’s “mental resilience” for coming back from 3-0 down away to Bournemouth. The same Bournemouth who get beaten at home by Sunderland and whose entire first eleven that day cost less than Alexis Sanchez.

Finances
The irony of Arsène Wenger often moaning about the television deal and money in football, is that he has managed to constantly award himself huge pay rises based on little to no success. Big money in football is terrible, unless it’s going into his pockets. Arsène Wenger is paid more than any player at Arsenal, and is one of four highest-paid managers in Europe. Arsenal’s wage bill is over £200m – indeed, in 2014, the Arsenal wage bill overtook “oil money” Chelsea for the first time. Even as far back as 2008, when the Arsenal wage bill passed £100m for the first time, that was still double the wage bill with which Ranieri managed to win a title. The worst part about a high wage bill is the slew of mediocre players, totally undeserving of playing for a club of Arsenal’s stature draining the club - Eboué, Denilson, Diaby, Bendtner, Song, Bischoff, Flamini (twice), Almunia, Park-Chu Young, Squillaci, Chamakh, Andre Santos. Look at that list of highly-paid players and see where their careers progressed to after they’d finally stopped draining the Arsenal wage bill. These are, and always will be, nobodies in the European football world of quality players. Yes, every manager makes mistakes – but few compound that with the arrogance Wenger does, rewarding such awful players with contract extensions. Right now, a similar scenario is developing with mediocre players such as Walcott (due a testimonial!), Ramsey, Mertesacker, Gibbs and so on, all draining huge amounts off the Arsenal wage bill, whereas amateur-level players like Sanogo and Jenkinson are somehow paid-employees. It is no wonder Sanchez demands doubling of his wages when he sees such collective wastage.

Arsene Wenger spent almost £100million over the summer window, and has somehow managed to take Arsenal backwards. The £38m spent on Xhaka seems especially foolish given that superior players moved for far less (Wanyama and Kante spring to mind). Wenger’s team sits in fifth, having won just one match against an elite-level side all season. PSG, Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool, PSG again, Spurs, Everton have yielded not a single win. An out-of-sorts Chelsea was the exception, and that result won’t be repeated at Stamford Bridge, one suspects. Managers have been sacked at big clubs for wasting lesser sums than this.

With all of these undeniable facts taken into consideration, Arsène Wenger absolutely cannot be offered a contract extension under any circumstances. His sky-high wages mean fans should demand the absolute best – not satisfaction with fourth-place finishes, the odd FA Cup and plucky draws against big bad Bournemouth. Failing in the exact same way, year after year, is unacceptable. If Conte showed the intelligence of a humble manager, acknowledging his mistakes after the Arsenal beating, Wenger continues to show the worst facets of blind arrogance and a refusal to adapt. Arsenal fans have lowered their standards enormously, and the rows of empty seats that appear at the same point each year (usually mid-March) are a sign of the structural malaise and indifference that have now taken hold. Many fans are bored, dejected and have no passion for this club under the current manager. Of course, there are many zombified fans who are content to finish “Top Four” every season and witness Groundhog Day repeat itself endlessly. The board’s decision to reward him unconditionally with zero accountability for 12 years, has seen them generally labelled an incompetent group of money-trousering swindlers. Quite what Gazidis and Kroenke add to Arsenal, is anyone’s guess. What they take from Arsenal however, is patently obvious. However…they are now in a unique position where Wenger can leave “nicely” – note, I don’t say with his reputation intact, for it is already damaged. The board don’t have to pay Wenger compensation, or sack him. His contract can run out, and Allegri, Simeone (personal choice), Tuchel or Low can be approached to take over the biggest club, in the richest league, in the biggest European city.

Wenger’s mediocrity is further contrasted when you look at the tools Antonio Conte, Klopp and Pochettino have had to work with.
• Conte took over a club in disarray that had finished mid-table, with its star players on the verge of mutiny (Costa, Fabregas, Hazard). If you look at the fact he’s new to English football, and wasn’t even able to get any of his primary transfer-targets in, the job he’s done so far is fabulous. Hazard is totally transformed, Costa no longer a walking, snarling yellow card machine but a deadly number nine; whilst the signing of Kante (far superior to Xhaka yet cost less, go figure) has taken them to the next level.
• Klopp is a manager Arsenal missed out on. Again, he took over the disastrous Rodgers leftovers with a group of derided players. Bar Mane and Wijnaldum as big-money signings, none of the players is his and yet… he easily took care of Arsenal in the opening weekend of the season, and is putting in a credible title tilt.
• Pochettino took over a Spurs squad where Baldini had pilfered all the Bale money on rubbish. He came in, instantly disbanded the bad influences (at Arsenal they get new contracts) and signed intelligently (e.g. Wanyama). The performance improvement in the likes of Eriksen, Dembele and signings like Alderweireld have turned Spurs into more than the usual Premier League joke we’ve been accustomed to. He’s put in more realistic title challenges in two years than Wenger has managed in twelve, which is a shocking contrast to the manner talented players like Oxlade, Wilshere and Gnabry have failed to flourish under Wenger.

A good cook never blames his tools. Wenger has blamed financial doping, referees, the fourth official, Brexit, injuries, opposition tactics, good defending, the global financial crisis, and has gone as far as blaming the fans themselves for his unique ability to fail in the same manner every season. The concept of taking responsibility doesn’t exist at Arsenal, another thing unique among Europe’s big clubs. I’ve always wondered how any self-respecting business could allow a highly-paid employee to make the kind of embarrassing comments Wenger and his players make without censure. He has no excuses about being new to English football, all the players are his and he’s had over 12 years to do something of relevance – you’re lucky if you get 12 months at a Real Madrid or Bayern. Which makes me giggle whenever Wenger “reminds” us of the offers he’s turned down. I wonder how long Madrid or Bayern fans would tolerate Almunia in goal, or fourth place, or an 8-2 defeat!

Then again, the whole mentality from the top down reeks at Arsenal and that is a by-product of Wenger. Off the top of my head there was the fourth place jubilant celebrations on the final day at St James Park, Arsenal fans jubilantly celebrating pipping Spurs to second place last season (ignoring that Wenger managed to blow the easiest title in history), Giroud celebrating with his scorpion dance (fair enough if you’d scored the winner - was it, though?), the players turning up to the league cup-final against Birmingham in tracksuit bottoms and t-shirts (shocking complacency, ended up losing the game), Ramsey and Walcott giving numerous loudmouth interviews to the media which always come back to bite the club, Oxlade-Chamberlain dancing like a clown literally just before a big game (imagine the consequences if Fergie or Pep ever caught one of their players doing that).

This appalling mentality has been allowed to fester for so long that it has now become accepted by many fans that low standards (fourth place, the odd FA Cup) are to be tolerated, whilst the myth of “Wengerball” (basically, football that looks nice at home to Palace or West Brom, but is totally ineffective against anyone with very good players) persists.
• Stan Kroenke up until recently, took out £2 million every year for “strategic advisory fees”. If the advice was on how to promote mediocrity, it’s money well earned.
• Ivan Gazidis laughably picks up £2m a year as a CEO, even though virtually nobody could tell you what he actually does. He does talk about nice little interior decoration suggestions for the Emirates, mind…just ignore Arsenal’s stagnant commercial revenues compared to the big clubs and the fact he somehow answers to the guy he’s supposed to be scrutinizing. Only at Arsenal…
• Arsène Wenger picks up £8.5m a year but at least we all know what it’s for - CL qualification pure and simple. And that is a shocking benchmark, when you consider that he shells out north of £200m a year on a wage bill. Frankly, CL qualification should be achievable by anybody on that kind of budget.

Kroenke and Gazidis are thoroughly unpopular and distrusted by the majority of Arsenal fans. Many Arsenal fans are fed up of Arsène Wenger; it isn’t an overwhelming majority but it’s close to a majority. The difference is between those with the courage to vocalise that boredom, and those who fear “out of respect” that they should be quiet. If anything, people need to remember that Wenger isn’t Arsenal. He’s keen to remind us that the club was bigger than RvP, Cesc, Nasri and Cole. So it is also bigger than him. Before Wenger joined Arsenal, he was a nobody in football, which is what makes all the “who would you replace him with” questions so idiotic. How many of Wenger’s dwindling fan-club knew who he was before he joined? Exactly. The club still managed to seek him out and will act again once he goes.

The board are now in a unique position to get rid of him without having to sack him unceremoniously. That way, Wenger’s ego can protect whatever’s left of his “legacy”. There is now no excuse for Kroenke and Gazidis to keep him (though I’m sure they’re desperately rummaging around for one). In fact, keeping Wenger would be shocking business sense since there are managers everywhere outperforming him on lower salaries (Simeone, Klopp, Conte, Pochettino, Joachim Low, Allegri, Thomas Tuchel) and much lower wage bills (Ranieri, Simeone, Klopp, Allegri, Conte). The board’s cowardice meant Arsenal missed out on Klopp. Diego Simeone should be the top choice but I accept he will be hard to prise away. Allegri is completely gettable and wants the job. Joachim Low is an excellent manager who has won a World Cup, Thomas Tuchel is a gamble but, then again, Arsenal fans have gone 12 years without coming close to a title-challenge. So the next man will be afforded the patience – so long as that next man is not Arsène Wenger. And to all those modern-day Wenger fans who think he’s bigger than the club and that the club cannot survive without him? Well, they will be more than welcome to follow Wenger out the door, seeing as Arsenal FC will be dead without him. Right?

[markyp]

rjw 1985 past glories count for little,keeping a manager who was once great out of sympathy or because of memories is ridiculous,Arsenal football club has stood still for 10 years now,do you think we can win another title under Wenger let alone the CL?? Remember Nottingham Forest and Brian Clough? they won the league and conquered Europe,something weve never managed but after the glory years came the steady decline with mid table mediocrity followed by relegation,do you think looking back that forest were right to keep clough as manager even when they were garbage and the football was dire?the brainwashed forest fans thought he was the messiah,ask them now how they feel and if clough should have gone earlier,with a clear head I think you will find they realise now that he was finished years before he retired,it looks pretty sad looking back to think they kept faith in him even though they were failing at every level,well we are the new Nottingham Forest,the glory years are long gone,everybody else is hoovering up the trophies while we stagnate,Wenger has to go,sentiment cant be allowed to cloud your judgement,he is no longer a coveted manager,more of a figure to poke fun at,and with just 3 months left on his contract why is no other club banging down the door to hire him??

Yeah cos it's all been rosy at Nottingham Forest since he left

Yes I think he can win the PL again or CL, that's why I'm backing him

are you on the spectrum?

don't start insulting me again, that's is terribly derogatory

are you 10 years old then?

[rjw1985]

rjw1985, honest question for you. Do you honestly feel that Wenger's in and pre game tactics are now up to scratch with the likes of Conte, Mourinho etc?

I would be interested to know the thoughts of someone on this who still backs him, as it would appear extremely often that we do not plan for individual opponents and persist with the same formation no matter what.

One notable match where we did (against Man City away a couple of years ago, a 2-0 win) Wenger even admitted that some of the players approached him before the match to ask for the tactics to be altered. Do you think this is surely the role of the manager/head coach to have in place anyway? That is quite an admission to make.

In the Chelsea match recently our fullbacks were both bombing forward at the same time like they did in the 6-0 loss there a few years ago. Then there are multiple admissions by the manager abou the players not being mentally prepared or ready after defeats, again surely something he is responsible for.

I do think there are great players in this squad and with more direction, motivation and being better prepared they could perhaps transition from falling short to winning the bigger prizes. This is why many fans whilst remaining respectful of Wenger's achievements would like to see a coach brought in who can bring all the pre match preparation and in game strategy to the table.

As a pro Wenger man (they are an endangered species here!) it would be good to see what you make of Wenger's tactics etc

Honestly I think Mourinho is probably the best tactician in the game, pains me to say it but that's my honest opinion. Conte is a different ball game, still can't quite work him out but he has undoubtedly got Chelsea playing a good system that suits their personnel, so fair play to him.

We are talking about a man who was won 3 PL titles 6 FA cups, I think he knows how to prepare and setup a team for any game

[rjw1985]

Wenger revolutionised English football around the turn of the century, only problem with that is it's been revolutionised at least twice more since and he's still playing with the same hand.

Said nobody, ever

Seriously though who revolutionised football twice since Wenger? Be honest as I think that was just a throwaway comment without any substance to it at all

Think we can all agree he was ground breaking when he started albeit with a superb GG defence already in place....and won trophies with some wonderful football, a big change in culture at the club took place

No one called us boring Arsenal anymore...which i hated

BUT.....we have lost our way considerably, and need a change desperately, it has to happen, Wenger is 67 now and outdated in ideas, being surpassed by new younger tacticians.....Agreed we need to appoint the right man to follow on, but dont be afraid of change

Thanks for the memories , TIME FOR CHANGE

Yes he certainly was groundbreaking and no we certainly were not boring. That we can all agree on.

I can accept that you feel it is time to change, I think he should get another year, but that aside who in your opinion is the right man for the job?

I like the look of Allegri...if they can get him....Simeone would be interesting certainly shake the players out of there comfort zone
We can move on we are the World Famous Arsenal, not spurs or chelsea.......we will be successful again

Has to be Simeone for me, really like the way he has gone about his business at Atleti

[rjw1985]

rjw 1985 past glories count for little,keeping a manager who was once great out of sympathy or because of memories is ridiculous,Arsenal football club has stood still for 10 years now,do you think we can win another title under Wenger let alone the CL?? Remember Nottingham Forest and Brian Clough? they won the league and conquered Europe,something weve never managed but after the glory years came the steady decline with mid table mediocrity followed by relegation,do you think looking back that forest were right to keep clough as manager even when they were garbage and the football was dire?the brainwashed forest fans thought he was the messiah,ask them now how they feel and if clough should have gone earlier,with a clear head I think you will find they realise now that he was finished years before he retired,it looks pretty sad looking back to think they kept faith in him even though they were failing at every level,well we are the new Nottingham Forest,the glory years are long gone,everybody else is hoovering up the trophies while we stagnate,Wenger has to go,sentiment cant be allowed to cloud your judgement,he is no longer a coveted manager,more of a figure to poke fun at,and with just 3 months left on his contract why is no other club banging down the door to hire him??

Yeah cos it's all been rosy at Nottingham Forest since he left

Yes I think he can win the PL again or CL, that's why I'm backing him

are you on the spectrum?

don't start insulting me again, that's is terribly derogatory

are you 10 years old then?

Look if you have nothing constructive to say then fuck off with your insults, trolling

[Henry Norris 1913]

agreed with every word from belfast boy. i too was diehard akb until 2011 (i remember these arguments six years ago and i had to swallow my pride and accept i was wrong) i'm too tired of the same recycled arguments from akb's to bother anymore. i literally don't bother with them, they get proved wrong year in year out and then they move the goalposts and pretend that we've had another superb season.

[markyp]

agreed with every word from belfast boy. i too was diehard akb until 2011 (i remember these arguments six years ago and i had to swallow my pride and accept i was wrong) i'm too tired of the same recycled arguments from akb's to bother anymore. i literally don't bother with them, they get proved wrong year in year out and then they move the goalposts and pretend that we've had another superb season.

Belfast boy is 100% spot on,and you make some spot on points too Henry Norris 1913

[armchair]

Where else would someone be allowed so much power unchecked?
To behave like it all belonged to him? That he could pretty much do as he liked?
Judge, jury and executioner.

The arrogance of him is disgusting. He likes to let everyone know how smart he is. So much smarter than anyone else.

Hes got his favourites and allows them way more leeway than others. Think Podolski and now Perez compared to Rambo or Ozil.

Any dissent or questioning he doesnt like is quickly stamped out. Say the wrong thing you may get banned a la Jaqui Oakley. Cant argue with him - he is always right.

Cant think of anywhere else that would allow this to continue?

[LeftfootlegendGooner]

Wow this thread has rocketed into 1900 + pages rather quickly, when it hits 1996 can we please leave that whole page to rjm1985 so he can pay tribute to Wenger as a mark of respect, thank you in advance for your compliance

Also I think we should set aside page 1993 to celebrate the season when football began.

Brilliant, 2 celebrations with a few days, be a first on here

[armchair]

Another anti-Wenger banner. This time alluding to Gary Neville insulting Arsenal fans who protest against him.

This one in Munich. Taken off twitter
Bit too nice for my liking as it doesnt mention Wenger specifically but does a job.