As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
Titi Gooner for life wrote:Regardless of whether you and for or against him, I think he deserves some more respect than what some fans are showing him. Yes I can understand their concerns (even anger) but show the man respect for what he's done for the club.
The suggestions that the man is senile, a psychopath etc are pathetic and Arsenal fans should show more respect that to go down that route.
Out of interest, what do you think of the respect Wenger shows to the fans?
As for what he's done for the club, are you being selective? I assume you are only talking about the good things? What about the damage he has done?
Wenger respecting the fans? He does respect the fans most of the time. Yes I understand you'll say what about the spin (some call it lies) but Arsene has never come out to the media on what he really thinks - protecting the players and the club - even in the good times. To be honest Im not in a position to know about what goes on at board level within the club etc - I don't think anyone else commenting on here does either. I don't believe Arsene is to blame.
So in your opinion, this is all Arsene's fault and if he were to go - that things would get better?? Im not so sure about that. We should be careful about what we wish for.
To answer your second question - no im not being selective. Arsene's contribution to progressing this club has been exceptional, in terms of reputation throughout Europe, etc.
Another point is - people feel Arsene has too much power - again, that is not his fault - thats the fault of those who have allowed him to make those decisions or those who have given him the responsibility.
I disagree with most of that mate! I think you are being very generous to Wenger.
But you're last point is a fair one and I agree with you on that. Wenger has had too much power since Dein went. And one thing that isnt Wenger's fault that has been very destructive in my opinion was Dein being sacked. Fiszman is to blame for this. And for selling the club to Kroenke ... but to some he is still lauded as 'Mr Arsenal'.
Titi Gooner for life wrote:Regardless of whether you and for or against him, I think he deserves some more respect than what some fans are showing him. Yes I can understand their concerns (even anger) but show the man respect for what he's done for the club.
The suggestions that the man is senile, a psychopath etc are pathetic and Arsenal fans should show more respect that to go down that route.
Out of interest, what do you think of the respect Wenger shows to the fans?
As for what he's done for the club, are you being selective? I assume you are only talking about the good things? What about the damage he has done?
Wenger respecting the fans? He does respect the fans most of the time. Yes I understand you'll say what about the spin (some call it lies) but Arsene has never come out to the media on what he really thinks - protecting the players and the club - even in the good times. To be honest Im not in a position to know about what goes on at board level within the club etc - I don't think anyone else commenting on here does either. I don't believe Arsene is to blame.
So in your opinion, this is all Arsene's fault and if he were to go - that things would get better?? Im not so sure about that. We should be careful about what we wish for.
To answer your second question - no im not being selective. Arsene's contribution to progressing this club has been exceptional, in terms of reputation throughout Europe, etc.
Another point is - people feel Arsene has too much power - again, that is not his fault - thats the fault of those who have allowed him to make those decisions or those who have given him the responsibility.
Titi please don't throw up that lame "be careful what you wish for" line cos it is indicative of the loser mentality that runs right through our club Are you honestly saying that we should just accept this level of mediocrity and not strive to improve ? Is that the attitude that has has made our club one of the flag bearers of English football for the best part of 80 years ? Maybe you still believe that wenger is the man to correct our shortcomings even though he has had years to improve things and yet we continue to regress I want our club to at least try and progress and changing manager is imperative for that to happen. Does that mean that the next manager is certain to make us winners.....no I am not saying that it is by personally I want us to try and improve rather than accept being losers feeding off scraps from other clubs and with ambitions no higher than finishing 4th
I hear a lot of comments from fans saying that they hope that wenger is allowed to walk away with his head high and not be hounded out.....I would suggest that the way it ends is down to wenger and wenger alone. He presided over the 8-2 mauling at old shatford last season (the worst result in our history) and he didn't walk. He presided countless defeats to the Bradford's, blackburns, norwich's, swansea's and wigan's of this world and yet he still remains. If he decides to finally put the club first and step down as manager then he might be allowed walk away with some dignity but if he allows his pride to interfere with what is best for all club then he deserves all the abuse that will comes his way imo
7 million quid a year salaray for the Economist, 140 million quid annual wage bill (he does it all on a shoe string budget ya know) and still you lot moan
You want us to compete with the financial doping of Bradford and Blackburn.....you mugs!!! Defeats to Norwich and Southampton will be a thing of the past once Financial Fair Play kicks in.
What does worry me a bit, is these fuckwits who'll be in charge of finding his replacement. Does anyone seriously think right now they're looking at all the options, who could be available etc? A top grade CEO & board would recognise that things are coming to an end & be putting a plan in place for a smooth handover to his successor. They probably don't believe he'll ever be gone.
augie wrote:Titi please don't throw up that lame "be careful what you wish for" line cos it is indicative of the loser mentality that runs right through our club Are you honestly saying that we should just accept this level of mediocrity and not strive to improve ? Is that the attitude that has has made our club one of the flag bearers of English football for the best part of 80 years ? Maybe you still believe that wenger is the man to correct our shortcomings even though he has had years to improve things and yet we continue to regress I want our club to at least try and progress and changing manager is imperative for that to happen. Does that mean that the next manager is certain to make us winners.....no I am not saying that it is by personally I want us to try and improve rather than accept being losers feeding off scraps from other clubs and with ambitions no higher than finishing 4th
I hear a lot of comments from fans saying that they hope that wenger is allowed to walk away with his head high and not be hounded out.....I would suggest that the way it ends is down to wenger and wenger alone. He presided over the 8-2 mauling at old shatford last season (the worst result in our history) and he didn't walk. He presided countless defeats to the Bradford's, blackburns, norwich's, swansea's and wigan's of this world and yet he still remains. If he decides to finally put the club first and step down as manager then he might be allowed walk away with some dignity but if he allows his pride to interfere with what is best for all club then he deserves all the abuse that will comes his way imo
No of course we should look to improve. Obviously. I do not have a loser mentality whtsoever. And yes it might be necessary to do that without Arsene. Im not Arsene's biggest fan. I have huge respect for him but not a SHEEP like someone suggested. I am just saying that (1) he is not all to blame and (2) he deserves more respect for what he has achieved at the club that being called senile, pschyopath etc.
So are you telling me that David Moyes or his type will come in and get us challenging again?? Not going to happen.
Arsene Wenger in my opinion has done more than a GOOD job in securing CL qualification over the past number of years - other managers wouldnt have done it with the players he's had to work with. Until that time comes when we don't qualify, then I can't question the man. And thats not accepting the spin of 4th place is a trophy etc or loser attitude. Its accepting that the board are willing to sell RvP to United, that City and Chelsea have huge amount of money plowed into their clubs and that Man Utd are effectively a GLOBAL brand that we cant compete with and can therefore carry huge amounts of debt that we couldnt afford to.
We're trying to HOUND one of the greatest managers the club has had in its history out of the club? Not right in my opinion. Yes you might feel he's time is up, its 50:50 now by all accounts and thats fair enough - but show some respect and class in your opinion.
I do not subscribe to the notion he doesnt care about the club, doesnt want to win - I think he feels defeats just as much as us fans do, if not more.
The problem is, I think the job is too big for someone so embedded within the club now and we need a fresh set of ideas, even if it does mean dropping a level with a view to long-term success.
I will never join in with the personal abuse, because he cares about this club as much as we do.
augie wrote:Titi please don't throw up that lame "be careful what you wish for" line cos it is indicative of the loser mentality that runs right through our club Are you honestly saying that we should just accept this level of mediocrity and not strive to improve ? Is that the attitude that has has made our club one of the flag bearers of English football for the best part of 80 years ? Maybe you still believe that wenger is the man to correct our shortcomings even though he has had years to improve things and yet we continue to regress I want our club to at least try and progress and changing manager is imperative for that to happen. Does that mean that the next manager is certain to make us winners.....no I am not saying that it is by personally I want us to try and improve rather than accept being losers feeding off scraps from other clubs and with ambitions no higher than finishing 4th
I hear a lot of comments from fans saying that they hope that wenger is allowed to walk away with his head high and not be hounded out.....I would suggest that the way it ends is down to wenger and wenger alone. He presided over the 8-2 mauling at old shatford last season (the worst result in our history) and he didn't walk. He presided countless defeats to the Bradford's, blackburns, norwich's, swansea's and wigan's of this world and yet he still remains. If he decides to finally put the club first and step down as manager then he might be allowed walk away with some dignity but if he allows his pride to interfere with what is best for all club then he deserves all the abuse that will comes his way imo
No of course we should look to improve. Obviously. I do not have a loser mentality whtsoever. And yes it might be necessary to do that without Arsene. Im not Arsene's biggest fan. I have huge respect for him but not a SHEEP like someone suggested. I am just saying that (1) he is not all to blame and (2) he deserves more respect for what he has achieved at the club that being called senile, pschyopath etc.
So are you telling me that David Moyes or his type will come in and get us challenging again?? Not going to happen.
Arsene Wenger in my opinion has done more than a GOOD job in securing CL qualification over the past number of years - other managers wouldnt have done it with the players he's had to work with. Until that time comes when we don't qualify, then I can't question the man. And thats not accepting the spin of 4th place is a trophy etc or loser attitude. Its accepting that the board are willing to sell RvP to United, that City and Chelsea have huge amount of money plowed into their clubs and that Man Utd are effectively a GLOBAL brand that we cant compete with and can therefore carry huge amounts of debt that we couldnt afford to.
We're trying to HOUND one of the greatest managers the club has had in its history out of the club? Not right in my opinion. Yes you might feel he's time is up, its 50:50 now by all accounts and thats fair enough - but show some respect and class in your opinion.
I agree. Show the same class that Wenger demonstrated last night at the end of the game when he did not even have the grace to acknowledge the opposition manager - the same manager that heaped praise on him 24 hours before. I am afraid Mr Wenger is setting the tone here.
augie wrote:Titi please don't throw up that lame "be careful what you wish for" line cos it is indicative of the loser mentality that runs right through our club Are you honestly saying that we should just accept this level of mediocrity and not strive to improve ? Is that the attitude that has has made our club one of the flag bearers of English football for the best part of 80 years ? Maybe you still believe that wenger is the man to correct our shortcomings even though he has had years to improve things and yet we continue to regress I want our club to at least try and progress and changing manager is imperative for that to happen. Does that mean that the next manager is certain to make us winners.....no I am not saying that it is by personally I want us to try and improve rather than accept being losers feeding off scraps from other clubs and with ambitions no higher than finishing 4th
I hear a lot of comments from fans saying that they hope that wenger is allowed to walk away with his head high and not be hounded out.....I would suggest that the way it ends is down to wenger and wenger alone. He presided over the 8-2 mauling at old shatford last season (the worst result in our history) and he didn't walk. He presided countless defeats to the Bradford's, blackburns, norwich's, swansea's and wigan's of this world and yet he still remains. If he decides to finally put the club first and step down as manager then he might be allowed walk away with some dignity but if he allows his pride to interfere with what is best for all club then he deserves all the abuse that will comes his way imo
No of course we should look to improve. Obviously. I do not have a loser mentality whtsoever. And yes it might be necessary to do that without Arsene. Im not Arsene's biggest fan. I have huge respect for him but not a SHEEP like someone suggested. I am just saying that (1) he is not all to blame and (2) he deserves more respect for what he has achieved at the club that being called senile, pschyopath etc.
So are you telling me that David Moyes or his type will come in and get us challenging again?? Not going to happen.
Arsene Wenger in my opinion has done more than a GOOD job in securing CL qualification over the past number of years - other managers wouldnt have done it with the players he's had to work with. Until that time comes when we don't qualify, then I can't question the man. And thats not accepting the spin of 4th place is a trophy etc or loser attitude. Its accepting that the board are willing to sell RvP to United, that City and Chelsea have huge amount of money plowed into their clubs and that Man Utd are effectively a GLOBAL brand that we cant compete with and can therefore carry huge amounts of debt that we couldnt afford to.
We're trying to HOUND one of the greatest managers the club has had in its history out of the club? Not right in my opinion. Yes you might feel he's time is up, its 50:50 now by all accounts and thats fair enough - but show some respect and class in your opinion.
I agree. Show the same class that Wenger demonstrated last night at the end of the game when he did not even have the grace to acknowledge the opposition manager - the same manager that heaped praise on him 24 hours before. I am afraid Mr Wenger is setting the tone here.
The Munich Bench were going mad, he more than likely spoke to him after the game as they are personal friends...by all means dig out Wenger - but not over stupid stuff like that.
Bendtners Drinking Buddy wrote:I do not subscribe to the notion he doesnt care about the club, doesnt want to win - I think he feels defeats just as much as us fans do, if not more.
The problem is, I think the job is too big for someone so embedded within the club now and we need a fresh set of ideas, even if it does mean dropping a level with a view to long-term success.
I will never join in with the personal abuse, because he cares about this club as much as we do.
I agree, I do think he cares about winning. But he is simply not up to the job anymore and should go now. However, if he really did care about the Club, he would do the honourable thing and let it move on without him.
Arsenal's wage bill - £3 million more than Bayern's
Yes, the constraints that Wenger has to work under. He just constantly, ermm, spins through his teeth. The same as the rest of the top management at the business.
Bendtners Drinking Buddy wrote:I do not subscribe to the notion he doesnt care about the club, doesnt want to win - I think he feels defeats just as much as us fans do, if not more.
The problem is, I think the job is too big for someone so embedded within the club now and we need a fresh set of ideas, even if it does mean dropping a level with a view to long-term success.
I will never join in with the personal abuse, because he cares about this club as much as we do.
I agree, I do think he cares about winning. But he is simply not up to the job anymore and should go now. However, if he really did care about the Club, he would do the honourable thing and let it move on without him.
Of course he cares about winning but he is a stubborn fuck & only wants to win his way, simply refusing to accept help, change or suggestions from outside. Again, how ironic that it will be his own ego which causes him to miss out on trophies.
Also, I see David Gill is leaving Utd today, quoting "Clubs must refresh themselves with new management and ideas".
Last edited by Dan_85 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bendtners Drinking Buddy wrote:I do not subscribe to the notion he doesnt care about the club, doesnt want to win - I think he feels defeats just as much as us fans do, if not more.
The problem is, I think the job is too big for someone so embedded within the club now and we need a fresh set of ideas, even if it does mean dropping a level with a view to long-term success.
I will never join in with the personal abuse, because he cares about this club as much as we do.
Here here - completely agreed. It may be time for someone else (Im undecided) but personal abuse?? - no thanks
arseofacrow wrote:Arsenal's wage bill - £3 million more than Bayern's
Yes, the constraints that Wenger has to work under. He just constantly, ermm, spins through his teeth. The same as the rest of the top management at the business.
Are you honestly saying that we should just accept this level of mediocrity and not strive to improve ? Is that the attitude that has has made our club one of the flag bearers of English football for the best part of 80 years ? Maybe you still believe that wenger is the man to correct our shortcomings even though he has had years to improve things and yet we continue to regress 
through his teeth. The same as the rest of the top management at the business.
