As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
Titi Gooner for life wrote: Its accepting that the board are willing to sell RvP to United.
Yet you admitted on the previous page that Wenger has too much power at the club (he did the interviews for the position of his own boss!!!!!!).
Do you honestly believe anyone but Arsene Wenger authorised the sale of RVP to United? Do me a favour for FFS
Yes I agree that he has too much power - but that is not his fault. Its the fault of those who gave him that responsibility? Ler Arsene make the decisions so we can hide behind him as we know he wont criticise us publicly.
So Wenger bears no responsibility for his own actions purely because the board have given him the power to carry them out in the first place?
If a murderer walks free and then kills again does he bear no responsibility for his actions because a court didn't lock him up?
Out of interest, if we pulled off a miracle & won the CL this season would you refuse to give Wenger any credit on the basis that he was only allowed to do so because the board let him? Or would he suddenly be responsible for his own actions then?
I take the point your trying to make. But surely you can see my point that the board have more responsibility than Arsene in this - they are the ones responsible for the running of the club?
Titi Gooner for life wrote: Its accepting that the board are willing to sell RvP to United.
Yet you admitted on the previous page that Wenger has too much power at the club (he did the interviews for the position of his own boss!!!!!!).
Do you honestly believe anyone but Arsene Wenger authorised the sale of RVP to United? Do me a favour for FFS
Yes I agree that he has too much power - but that is not his fault. Its the fault of those who gave him that responsibility? Ler Arsene make the decisions so we can hide behind him as we know he wont criticise us publicly.
So Wenger bears no responsibility for his own actions purely because the board have given him the power to carry them out in the first place?
If a murderer walks free and then kills again does he bear no responsibility for his actions because a court didn't lock him up?
Out of interest, if we pulled off a miracle & won the CL this season would you refuse to give Wenger any credit on the basis that he was only allowed to do so because the board let him? Or would he suddenly be responsible for his own actions then?
I take the point your trying to make. But surely you can see my point that the board have more responsibility than Arsene in this - they are the ones responsible for the running of the club?
begeegs wrote:Welcome to the forum, Titi. Unfortunately, we are like vampires here looking for fresh blood and you are the fresh blood
Essentially, if you take away the financial portion of the game, which others have highlighted and seem a point of contention with people who still support Wenger, you are down to what we see on the field. What we see (effort aside) is a lot of headless chicken defending and the now predictable tactics of pass through the middle.
If you look at Bayern last night, they were organized, ran for each other and had a plan to stop us. We didn't even make it out of our half for most of the first half. Now that is Bayern, other teams may not believe in their quality as much and prefer to park the bus. We can't break them down - how many years have we seen that?
We can't defend set pieces, our attacking set pieces are a joke (yes, we got a gift last night), we are awful without the ball, and when things aren't working out, we wait until 70 minutes almost every game to change it. Half the games, we don't even bother to turn up until after the first half. We lead the league in individual defensive errors. If you take away our routs this year (Southampton, West Ham, etc) you will notice that we are actually struggling to score goals.
Any other manager would have been chucked out on his ear now, but because Wenger was great almost 10 years ago, he remains in a job because people have belief about the financial aspects that he may be operating under rather than what is on the pitch. This also flies in the face of the official Arsenal accounts, what Gazidis has said and also includes quotes from Wenger, himself.
Comparing Bayern with where Arsenal are is not appropriate. The amount of money they have spent on players compared to us is worlds apart.
Bayern are streets ahead in terms of experience in the CL.
We have to accept that we have fallen off from the top - mailnly in my opinion to the money that City, Chelsea and United have been able to spend. We cant compete with that level of money (along with mistakes we've made in the meantime).
augie wrote:So titi are you suggesting that the scousers wouldnt have abused daglish if the had to endure 6 or more years of mismanagement ?
That is the key point.
If Wenger had had the decency to have left after just 3 or 4 years of failure most of us would still have some respect and affection for him. Its because he has stuck around so long and become even more arrogant and stubborn in that time that people have (rightly) come to loathe him.
After that 8-2 anyone with any integrity would have at least offered their resignation and a gesture. Instead Wenger went round David Deins house afraid of what might happen to him. Disgrace!
Titi Gooner for life wrote:
Comparing Bayern with where Arsenal are is not appropriate. The amount of money they have spent on players compared to us is worlds apart.
Bayern are streets ahead in terms of experience in the CL.
We have to accept that we have fallen off from the top - mailnly in my opinion to the money that City, Chelsea and United have been able to spend. We cant compete with that level of money (along with mistakes we've made in the meantime).
Havent we had 16 years now mate? How much experience of it do we need?
rodders999 wrote:Nothing is Arsene Wenger's fault and even if it is his fault it's not really his fault because it's someone else's fault.
AWOOGA AWOOGA AWOOGA
haha. Great comment.
As i said Im not an AW sheep, not his biggest fan. Can see his shortcomings clear.
All Im saying is that the man does his best for the club, loves the club, is one of the greatest managers in the history of the club and therefore does not warrant personal abuse like ye've been giving him.
Surely when he's long gone, you'll see how he helped developed the inferstructures of the club and what he achieved and be sorry that you tried to hound him out of the club.
Titi Gooner for life wrote:
Comparing Bayern with where Arsenal are is not appropriate. The amount of money they have spent on players compared to us is worlds apart.
Bayern are streets ahead in terms of experience in the CL.
We have to accept that we have fallen off from the top - mailnly in my opinion to the money that City, Chelsea and United have been able to spend. We cant compete with that level of money (along with mistakes we've made in the meantime).
Havent we had 16 years now mate? How much experience of it do we need?
We've had 16 years of competing in the CL - correct. Over the past 5 years we havent been competing in the later stages of the CL and winning titles like Bayern have - hence I think that those Bayern players have more experience when it comes to knockout CL.
Wenger has received little, if any, abuse for 5, 6, 7 years. He has got some stick this year pretty much for the first time. What other group of supporters of a 'big' club would have left it 8 years before they started to get on the managers back after such a prolonged period of failure? People are talking as though the Arsenal fans have turned on him after a few months of poor results. He is incredibly lucky that the fans have been so loyal and so patient for so long.
Titi Gooner for life wrote:
Comparing Bayern with where Arsenal are is not appropriate. The amount of money they have spent on players compared to us is worlds apart.
Bayern are streets ahead in terms of experience in the CL.
We have to accept that we have fallen off from the top - mailnly in my opinion to the money that City, Chelsea and United have been able to spend. We cant compete with that level of money (along with mistakes we've made in the meantime).
Havent we had 16 years now mate? How much experience of it do we need?
We've had 16 years of competing in the CL - correct. Over the past 5 years we havent been competing in the later stages of the CL and winning titles like Bayern have - hence I think that those Bayern players have more experience when it comes to knockout CL.
If thats true why hasnt Wenger bought experienced players? We have spunked money away on Gervinho and the rest like theres no tomorrow, why hasnt he spent the same amount of money (and less in terms of wages than Bayern's experience) on better and more experienced players?
Titi Gooner for life wrote:
Comparing Bayern with where Arsenal are is not appropriate. The amount of money they have spent on players compared to us is worlds apart.
Bayern are streets ahead in terms of experience in the CL.
We have to accept that we have fallen off from the top - mailnly in my opinion to the money that City, Chelsea and United have been able to spend. We cant compete with that level of money (along with mistakes we've made in the meantime).
Havent we had 16 years now mate? How much experience of it do we need?
We've had 16 years of competing in the CL - correct. Over the past 5 years we havent been competing in the later stages of the CL and winning titles like Bayern have - hence I think that those Bayern players have more experience when it comes to knockout CL.
Bayern are one of the top 2/3 teams in the world.
So we could just say Bayern are streets ahead of us and leave it at that?
We always get out of the group stages so we've got a fair bit of experience of the knockout stages too. Unfotunately our experience is mainly one of getting knocked out !! Nobody has more experience of getting knocked out of the knockout stages than Wenger's Arsenal
ThomasMitchell wrote:Wenger has received little, if any, abuse for 5, 6, 7 years. He has got some stick this year pretty much for the first time. What other group of supporters of a 'big' club would have left it 8 years before they started to get on the managers back after such a prolonged period of failure? People are talking as though the Arsenal fans have turned on him after a few months of poor results. He is incredibly lucky that the fans have been so loyal and so patient for so long.
Some stick - fair enough. On his back - fair enough. Im one of the fans who would be questioning him on a lot of stuff - getting on his back etc
But its not that that I think is wrong.
Its the personal ABUSE - calling the man a pscychopath, a senile old man, a dictator etc. He's still the same man he was when he was delivering us titles.
