As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
BFG4 wrote:I have criticised Wenger more than most, but if we won the league, it would change my perspective on him, but realistically we wont. We have a squad, that minus any of our usual starting 11, looks average. To win the title, you need to have a world class striker, we dont, and even worse, his back up, is a bloke who doesnt want to play for the club. In January when everyone is crying out for signings(And City and Chelsea are strengthening their squads) we will do little or no business, and hear the excuse that (a) its hard to find players in January and (b) we did already sign a world class player in Ozil. Not only will we not win the league, we wont even get in the top two.
If I didn't know better I'd have thought we were 10th, out of the CL with nothing to play for.
MrT wrote:the vast majority that blindly support him contribute nothing out of their lives to supporting the club, whether it be financial or travelling across the continent to see the team play, they have nothing to lose since they never invest in the team on any level. For them it's online posturing to see who can be the biggest loyal supporter to Wenger.
Im not sure about this- surely every Gooner makes SOME contribution, whether its encouraging their kids to follow their Dad, or just sacrificing some electricity and a beer in front of the TV on a Sat night, whatever surely their view is equally as valid Sometimes a view slightly away from 100% Arsenal can be more valid, and the 2 ladies holding the Fabregas/Nasri banner at the Manure match one may argue have a less valid view.
One thing thats certain is many have STRONG views for or against, and after 17 years thats no surprise at all
MrT wrote:the vast majority that blindly support him contribute nothing out of their lives to supporting the club, whether it be financial or travelling across the continent to see the team play, they have nothing to lose since they never invest in the team on any level. For them it's online posturing to see who can be the biggest loyal supporter to Wenger.
Im not sure about this- surely every Gooner makes SOME contribution, whether its encouraging their kids to follow their Dad, or just sacrificing some electricity and a beer in front of the TV on a Sat night, whatever surely their view is equally as valid Sometimes a view slightly away from 100% Arsenal can be more valid, and the 2 ladies holding the Fabregas/Nasri banner at the Manure match one may argue have a less valid view.
One thing thats certain is many have STRONG views for or against, and after 17 years thats no surprise at all
i would also add that if what MrT is saying were true, there would be massive booing inside the stadium every match, as the "real fans" are there, and instead what i hear is "one arsene wenger, there's only one..." - yet, in the streaming of yesterday's match we were doing a live chat with Arsenal Brasil members (one of those google hangouts), and i was the only one there not calling for wenger's head.
i feel that fans that actually go to games, home or away, are more important then, for example, i am. they are more important for the club, as a football club needs people actually going to games, it's that simple. but saying that it has anything to do with the opinion on wenger is naïve.
i would also add that, even though i've been to two arsenal games in my life, that little adventure cost me exactly 5 months worth of my full wages. it took me two years to save all the money. every year, at least 10 arsenal brasil members do the same. so comparing investment with location also sucks. sorry mate.
MrT wrote:the vast majority that blindly support him contribute nothing out of their lives to supporting the club, whether it be financial or travelling across the continent to see the team play, they have nothing to lose since they never invest in the team on any level. For them it's online posturing to see who can be the biggest loyal supporter to Wenger.
Im not sure about this- surely every Gooner makes SOME contribution, whether its encouraging their kids to follow their Dad, or just sacrificing some electricity and a beer in front of the TV on a Sat night, whatever surely their view is equally as valid Sometimes a view slightly away from 100% Arsenal can be more valid, and the 2 ladies holding the Fabregas/Nasri banner at the Manure match one may argue have a less valid view.
One thing thats certain is many have STRONG views for or against, and after 17 years thats no surprise at all
i would also add that if what MrT is saying were true, there would be massive booing inside the stadium every match, as the "real fans" are there, and instead what i hear is "one arsene wenger, there's only one..." - yet, in the streaming of yesterday's match we were doing a live chat with Arsenal Brasil members (one of those google hangouts), and i was the only one there not calling for wenger's head.
i feel that fans that actually go to games, home or away, are more important then, for example, i am. they are more important for the club, as a football club needs people actually going to games, it's that simple. but saying that it has anything to do with the opinion on wenger is naïve.
i would also add that, even though i've been to two arsenal games in my life, that little adventure cost me exactly 5 months worth of my full wages. it took me two years to save all the money. every year, at least 10 arsenal brasil members do the same. so comparing investment with location also sucks. sorry mate.
In response to you both, my point wasn't to invalidate a foreign fans opinion due to their location, even though I knew that's how some would choose to interpret it.
I just seem to find the vast majority of super Wenger fans that I've encountered contribute nothing out of their lives for the club and yet these are the ones I find going on about ''What kind of a supporter are you'' Support the manager'' ''Fickle'' all the way in Bangladesh and Australia. When you have spent as much as I have and many others on here and elsewhere and to be told by Dikembe in Nigeria that you're not a real supporter definitely gets on my nerves. They can fuck right off.
MrT wrote:the vast majority that blindly support him contribute nothing out of their lives to supporting the club, whether it be financial or travelling across the continent to see the team play, they have nothing to lose since they never invest in the team on any level. For them it's online posturing to see who can be the biggest loyal supporter to Wenger.
Im not sure about this- surely every Gooner makes SOME contribution, whether its encouraging their kids to follow their Dad, or just sacrificing some electricity and a beer in front of the TV on a Sat night, whatever surely their view is equally as valid Sometimes a view slightly away from 100% Arsenal can be more valid, and the 2 ladies holding the Fabregas/Nasri banner at the Manure match one may argue have a less valid view.
One thing thats certain is many have STRONG views for or against, and after 17 years thats no surprise at all
i would also add that if what MrT is saying were true, there would be massive booing inside the stadium every match, as the "real fans" are there, and instead what i hear is "one arsene wenger, there's only one..." - yet, in the streaming of yesterday's match we were doing a live chat with Arsenal Brasil members (one of those google hangouts), and i was the only one there not calling for wenger's head.
i feel that fans that actually go to games, home or away, are more important then, for example, i am. they are more important for the club, as a football club needs people actually going to games, it's that simple. but saying that it has anything to do with the opinion on wenger is naïve.
i would also add that, even though i've been to two arsenal games in my life, that little adventure cost me exactly 5 months worth of my full wages. it took me two years to save all the money. every year, at least 10 arsenal brasil members do the same. so comparing investment with location also sucks. sorry mate.
clockender1 wrote:I just cannot wait to hear tonights excuses - all we had to do was 0-0 and finish top. we came in to the game with a superb defensive record and we bossed the first half, then....
Then Higuain scored a decent goal and Arteta was given a soft red card.
After that, we decided to hang on and contain Napoli. Maybe not the best tactics in the world, nor the bravest, but lets not go overboard.
It's funny cos I don't think that it was soft at all and I am a huge arteta fan - I thought that both were stupid lunges that he didn't need to make and being honest I would have expected better from him there
Yep. Discussed on the Napoli thread but have to say I agree 100% with this. Arteta has been brilliant in the DM role for 2 years now and is far more intelligent that Flamoney - but he was stupid as fuck last night.
As augie (I think) said on another thread Flamoney has the first touch of a rapist and at times is just a headless chicken. I absolutely know he will lunge and get sent off at some stage this season when it matters the most. I deffo prefer Arteta in that role, but concede at times they do well together and also that Flamoney has been (mostly) pretty good this season. I just think Arteta is more intelligent, anticipates the play better and is less likely to go in with the Hollywood lunge and give away silly free kicks as often as Flamoney will. But last night Arteta was stupid. But it was a deffo second yellow and red.
If we're really looking to become a title challenging team, then a player like Arteta really has no place in our squad. I really can't put my hands on what he offers. He offers fuck all going forward, and more often than not, shy away from being that bridge between defence and our attack. Truly a pointless and feckless player and being such a lightweight cannot command the middle of any patch we're playing on at any given time.
There's a reason he never as much as got a call up to the Spanish Nat'l team. He simply isn't good enough for them. Neither has he ever been good enough to wear the shirt of any top club.
The 2nd yellow card he took last night was totally unnecessary and shows he cannot keep a level head when the pressure is on. He gets flustered in pressure games - see Bayern game earlier this year and I think also the manc game this season - loses his cool and does silly things which makes him a massive liability. He should never have been a shoe in back into the team with the kind of performances we've seen from Flamini since he rejoined.
clockender1 wrote:I just cannot wait to hear tonights excuses - all we had to do was 0-0 and finish top. we came in to the game with a superb defensive record and we bossed the first half, then....
Then Higuain scored a decent goal and Arteta was given a soft red card.
After that, we decided to hang on and contain Napoli. Maybe not the best tactics in the world, nor the bravest, but lets not go overboard.
It's funny cos I don't think that it was soft at all and I am a huge arteta fan - I thought that both were stupid lunges that he didn't need to make and being honest I would have expected better from him there
Yep. Discussed on the Napoli thread but have to say I agree 100% with this. Arteta has been brilliant in the DM role for 2 years now and is far more intelligent that Flamoney - but he was stupid as fuck last night.
As augie (I think) said on another thread Flamoney has the first touch of a rapist and at times is just a headless chicken. I absolutely know he will lunge and get sent off at some stage this season when it matters the most. I deffo prefer Arteta in that role, but concede at times they do well together and also that Flamoney has been (mostly) pretty good this season. I just think Arteta is more intelligent, anticipates the play better and is less likely to go in with the Hollywood lunge and give away silly free kicks as often as Flamoney will. But last night Arteta was stupid. But it was a deffo second yellow and red.
If we're really looking to become a title challenging team, then a player like Arteta really has no place in our squad. I really can't put my hands on what he offers. He offers fuck all going forward, and more often than not, shy away from being that bridge between defence and our attack. Truly a pointless and feckless player and being such a lightweight cannot command the middle of any patch we're playing on at any given time.
There's a reason he never as much as got a call up to the Spanish Nat'l team. He simply isn't good enough for them. Neither has he ever been good enough to wear the shirt of any top club.
The 2nd yellow card he took last night was totally unnecessary and shows he cannot keep a level head when the pressure is on. He gets flustered in pressure games - see Bayern game earlier this year and I think also the manc game this season - loses his cool and does silly things which makes him a massive liability. He should never have been a shoe in back into the team with the kind of performances we've seen from Flamini since he rejoined.
An absolute weak link in the squad he is IMHO.
I don't necessarily think Arteta is the main weak link we have. I think we have a weak link in an attacking sense. Giroud is ok, but if our realistic aim is to win the league then we need a world class striker, until we get that we will win nothing.
clockender1 wrote:I just cannot wait to hear tonights excuses - all we had to do was 0-0 and finish top. we came in to the game with a superb defensive record and we bossed the first half, then....
Then Higuain scored a decent goal and Arteta was given a soft red card.
After that, we decided to hang on and contain Napoli. Maybe not the best tactics in the world, nor the bravest, but lets not go overboard.
It's funny cos I don't think that it was soft at all and I am a huge arteta fan - I thought that both were stupid lunges that he didn't need to make and being honest I would have expected better from him there
Yep. Discussed on the Napoli thread but have to say I agree 100% with this. Arteta has been brilliant in the DM role for 2 years now and is far more intelligent that Flamoney - but he was stupid as fuck last night.
As augie (I think) said on another thread Flamoney has the first touch of a rapist and at times is just a headless chicken. I absolutely know he will lunge and get sent off at some stage this season when it matters the most. I deffo prefer Arteta in that role, but concede at times they do well together and also that Flamoney has been (mostly) pretty good this season. I just think Arteta is more intelligent, anticipates the play better and is less likely to go in with the Hollywood lunge and give away silly free kicks as often as Flamoney will. But last night Arteta was stupid. But it was a deffo second yellow and red.
If we're really looking to become a title challenging team, then a player like Arteta really has no place in our squad. I really can't put my hands on what he offers. He offers fuck all going forward, and more often than not, shy away from being that bridge between defence and our attack. Truly a pointless and feckless player and being such a lightweight cannot command the middle of any patch we're playing on at any given time.
There's a reason he never as much as got a call up to the Spanish Nat'l team. He simply isn't good enough for them. Neither has he ever been good enough to wear the shirt of any top club.
The 2nd yellow card he took last night was totally unnecessary and shows he cannot keep a level head when the pressure is on. He gets flustered in pressure games - see Bayern game earlier this year and I think also the manc game this season - loses his cool and does silly things which makes him a massive liability. He should never have been a shoe in back into the team with the kind of performances we've seen from Flamini since he rejoined.
An absolute weak link in the squad he is IMHO.
Offers fuck all, pointless, shys away - completely ridiculous things to say.
Didn't have a great game last night and the second yellow was silly, but there were plenty of other players who had stinkers. As for offering the link between defence and attack, they caused us very few problems through the middle and he can hardly be blamed for the fact that every bit of decent possession was pissed away by Tommy Giroud the pinball wizard or by Flamini bumbling around in the opposition third.
If you're really struggling to think of what he offers and are convinced he can't hack it in big games cast your mind back to the Dortmund away game for a start where he was streets ahead of anybody else on the pitch. Flamini has some traits that Arteta can't match but he simply couldn't have put in a performance like that, Arteta was immense in defence and despite having two players on his back at all times he was composed in possession and the sharpness of his passing opened up the game for us and allowed us to both keep the ball and create as much as we did.
MrT wrote:
In response to you both, my point wasn't to invalidate a foreign fans opinion due to their location, even though I knew that's how some would choose to interpret it.
I just seem to find the vast majority of super Wenger fans that I've encountered contribute nothing out of their lives for the club and yet these are the ones I find going on about ''What kind of a supporter are you'' Support the manager'' ''Fickle'' all the way in Bangladesh and Australia. When you have spent as much as I have and many others on here and elsewhere and to be told by Dikembe in Nigeria that you're not a real supporter definitely gets on my nerves. They can fuck right off.
i get your point, but i still feel you should be as angry with Mr Dikembe as you should with the ladies holding the cesc/nasri banner or the season ticket holder who chants '1AW'. or maybe more with the latter, as they don't tell arsène right in his face since they have the opportunity.
there are people with stupid ideas everywhere (even sitting on the manager's seat!), and the proportion doesn't seem to be much more pro-wenger as you travel further away from the grove, i see many pissed off fans here in brazil.
clockender1 wrote:I just cannot wait to hear tonights excuses - all we had to do was 0-0 and finish top. we came in to the game with a superb defensive record and we bossed the first half, then....
Then Higuain scored a decent goal and Arteta was given a soft red card.
After that, we decided to hang on and contain Napoli. Maybe not the best tactics in the world, nor the bravest, but lets not go overboard.
It's funny cos I don't think that it was soft at all and I am a huge arteta fan - I thought that both were stupid lunges that he didn't need to make and being honest I would have expected better from him there
Yep. Discussed on the Napoli thread but have to say I agree 100% with this. Arteta has been brilliant in the DM role for 2 years now and is far more intelligent that Flamoney - but he was stupid as fuck last night.
As augie (I think) said on another thread Flamoney has the first touch of a rapist and at times is just a headless chicken. I absolutely know he will lunge and get sent off at some stage this season when it matters the most. I deffo prefer Arteta in that role, but concede at times they do well together and also that Flamoney has been (mostly) pretty good this season. I just think Arteta is more intelligent, anticipates the play better and is less likely to go in with the Hollywood lunge and give away silly free kicks as often as Flamoney will. But last night Arteta was stupid. But it was a deffo second yellow and red.
If we're really looking to become a title challenging team, then a player like Arteta really has no place in our squad. I really can't put my hands on what he offers. He offers fuck all going forward, and more often than not, shy away from being that bridge between defence and our attack. Truly a pointless and feckless player and being such a lightweight cannot command the middle of any patch we're playing on at any given time.
There's a reason he never as much as got a call up to the Spanish Nat'l team. He simply isn't good enough for them. Neither has he ever been good enough to wear the shirt of any top club.
The 2nd yellow card he took last night was totally unnecessary and shows he cannot keep a level head when the pressure is on. He gets flustered in pressure games - see Bayern game earlier this year and I think also the manc game this season - loses his cool and does silly things which makes him a massive liability. He should never have been a shoe in back into the team with the kind of performances we've seen from Flamini since he rejoined.
An absolute weak link in the squad he is IMHO.
Obviously it's all about opinion and everyone has theirs but I absolutely cannot agree, mate. Flamoney has been pretty good in some games since he returned. But in others he has just been a headless chicken running around leaping into pointless uneseccary tackles mostly to no real benefit to the team. A mixed bag.
For the last two years Arteta has filled that Gilberto type role quietly and effectively. I'm not saying you are doing this, but I think alot of people that criticise Arteta and hail Flamoney are blinded by the Hollywood tackles and the obvious running around. A bit like when Mong was loafing around in midfield. He was total shite yet he'd throw in a Hollywood lunging tackle every now and again and some people would hail him as a fantastic midfielder. Whereas Arteta goes about it in a more controlled intelligent way. He doesn't NEED to throw in Hollywood tackles most times because his experience, anticipation and knowledge have placed him where he needs to be, often snuffing out attacks before they really begin or threaten. With him it's all about anticipation rather than reaction which is mostly what Flamoney offers and all Mong offered - and in Mong's case often far too late.
Arteta isn't perfect but he has been one of our most solid players for two seasons now.
I don't see this intelligence that Arteta's fans try so hard to attribute to him. It's a myth at best which has been allowed to thrive and develop by way of constant repetition. He certainly isn't intelligent enough to keep a cool head when the pressure is on. Furthermore, taking a second yellow so high up the pitch, when there was no real threat, doesn't bode well for a so called intelligent player.
And like I stated in earlier post, he isn't good enough to be a must start in a team with title aspirations. Wenger making him a staple in our starting eleven, especially in a role he clearly isn't suited for, and one where he's been found out as an absolute lightweight (refer to Rooney marking him out of a game completely in our 1-1 draw against the mancs at the backend of last season), just goes to show how far we've fallen.
I've seen him shy away from taking that 1st pass from our CBs on more than one occasion, pointing them to other players. And it's not as if he would have been receiving the ball under pressure. Hence, I'm of the view that he isn't that bridge between our defence and CAM. He also offers fuck all going forward as most of his passes are lateral or backwards.
Decent player, but just not good enough for a team like The Arsenal if we've really upped our expectation from 4th place glory to title contenders. He's the personification of average, so no coincidence that he spent the better part of his career pubbing it out in an Everton team and never earned a cap for Spain.
Anyway, I won't further derail what is arguably the greatest thread of all time. As such, I must categorically and unequivocally state that I'm still absolutely 100% against.
PS I hope Lord Clueless doesn't leetle beit take the piss by opting to do the momentous signing during any of the dreadful winter months, thereby ruining what would have been a most scintillating barbecue.
MrT wrote:the vast majority that blindly support him contribute nothing out of their lives to supporting the club, whether it be financial or travelling across the continent to see the team play, they have nothing to lose since they never invest in the team on any level. For them it's online posturing to see who can be the biggest loyal supporter to Wenger.
Im not sure about this- surely every Gooner makes SOME contribution, whether its encouraging their kids to follow their Dad, or just sacrificing some electricity and a beer in front of the TV on a Sat night, whatever surely their view is equally as valid Sometimes a view slightly away from 100% Arsenal can be more valid, and the 2 ladies holding the Fabregas/Nasri banner at the Manure match one may argue have a less valid view.
One thing thats certain is many have STRONG views for or against, and after 17 years thats no surprise at all
i would also add that if what MrT is saying were true, there would be massive booing inside the stadium every match, as the "real fans" are there, and instead what i hear is "one arsene wenger, there's only one..." - yet, in the streaming of yesterday's match we were doing a live chat with Arsenal Brasil members (one of those google hangouts), and i was the only one there not calling for wenger's head.
i feel that fans that actually go to games, home or away, are more important then, for example, i am. they are more important for the club, as a football club needs people actually going to games, it's that simple. but saying that it has anything to do with the opinion on wenger is naïve.
i would also add that, even though i've been to two arsenal games in my life, that little adventure cost me exactly 5 months worth of my full wages. it took me two years to save all the money. every year, at least 10 arsenal brasil members do the same. so comparing investment with location also sucks. sorry mate.
That's steve o's fault the akb c*nt
ONE ARSENE WENGER.......THERE'S ONLY ONE ARSENE WENGER
Sometimes a view slightly away from 100% Arsenal can be more valid, and the 2 ladies holding the Fabregas/Nasri banner at the Manure match one may argue have a less valid view. 
