The Board-Finance-Kroenke

[QuartzGooner]

what is certain is that when that budget is set Wenger has free licence and therefore the bad buys are solely down to him. Kroenke and Gazidis wouldn't know a football if it hit them in the face

It is not certain.

There is considerable speculation that Arshavin and Ozil were bought over Wenger's head by Gazidis.

And where does this idea come from that Gazidis knows nothing about football?

He grew up as a football fan in the UK, represented his university at football which would be a decent amateur standard, then worked with the MLS for 14 years, and has been at Arsenal for five years.

[Herd]

Im not sure about Ozil but Arshavin was a long time Arsenal target .

Wenger has taken over all control on transfers from Gazidis since 2012 and uses Dick Law for everything .
Gazidis has been effectively cut out of the process which is thwarting his ambitions to do a "Billy Beane" number at Arsenal.
He still is the head bean counter and Kroenke flunky but if u notice he has been far quieter on the football front of late !

[Midz]

It is genuinely sad, because I DON#T want to end up hating him, but he seems determined to undo all the good (footballing success) he has achieved.

Very much agreed.

[SteveO 35]

what is certain is that when that budget is set Wenger has free licence and therefore the bad buys are solely down to him. Kroenke and Gazidis wouldn't know a football if it hit them in the face

It is not certain.

There is considerable speculation that Arshavin and Ozil were bought over Wenger's head by Gazidis.

And where does this idea come from that Gazidis knows nothing about football?

He grew up as a football fan in the UK, represented his university at football which would be a decent amateur standard, then worked with the MLS for 14 years, and has been at Arsenal for five years.

You can speculate all you like Quartz but I don't believe for one second that Wenger would work with any 'over his head' signings. He is an old school football manager with an ego the size of house and would be no more accepting of it than Sir Rednose would have at United.

As for Gazidis's football experience - if playing football for your uni and working in a minor league qualifies you to run supposedly one of Europe's elite clubs, then I'm lost for words. I played cricket to a decent amateur standard and run my village league once upon a time.....perhaps I should send my application into the ECCB to replace Andy Flower

[QuartzGooner]

what is certain is that when that budget is set Wenger has free licence and therefore the bad buys are solely down to him. Kroenke and Gazidis wouldn't know a football if it hit them in the face

It is not certain.

There is considerable speculation that Arshavin and Ozil were bought over Wenger's head by Gazidis.

And where does this idea come from that Gazidis knows nothing about football?

He grew up as a football fan in the UK, represented his university at football which would be a decent amateur standard, then worked with the MLS for 14 years, and has been at Arsenal for five years.

You can speculate all you like Quartz but I don't believe for one second that Wenger would work with any 'over his head' signings. He is an old school football manager with an ego the size of house and would be no more accepting of it than Sir Rednose would have at United.

As for Gazidis's football experience - if playing football for your uni and working in a minor league qualifies you to run supposedly one of Europe's elite clubs, then I'm lost for words. I played cricket to a decent amateur standard and run my village league once upon a time.....perhaps I should send my application into the ECCB to replace Andy Flower

Gazidis was a major administrator in MLS for 14 years.
Overseeing business and marketing decisions.
The league is doing well considering it is up against four entrenched team sports.

Yes, that qualifies him to work in his current role at Arsenal.

His growing up here supporting a team and playing for his university are nothing to do with him being able to operate in business, but they show that he is not this "suit" who has somehow joined a football club with no prior knowledge of the game, which is an falsehood that you and others have repeatedly tried to pass off as the truth.

"Wouldn't know a football if it hit him in the face" is a pointless phrase with no relation to Gazidis.

Kroenke is different.

He does have football knowledge, but I bet very much less than most people on this Forum in terms of tactics and the history and culture of the sport.
His business acumen on the other hand....

[SteveO 35]

what is certain is that when that budget is set Wenger has free licence and therefore the bad buys are solely down to him. Kroenke and Gazidis wouldn't know a football if it hit them in the face

It is not certain.

There is considerable speculation that Arshavin and Ozil were bought over Wenger's head by Gazidis.

And where does this idea come from that Gazidis knows nothing about football?

He grew up as a football fan in the UK, represented his university at football which would be a decent amateur standard, then worked with the MLS for 14 years, and has been at Arsenal for five years.

You can speculate all you like Quartz but I don't believe for one second that Wenger would work with any 'over his head' signings. He is an old school football manager with an ego the size of house and would be no more accepting of it than Sir Rednose would have at United.

As for Gazidis's football experience - if playing football for your uni and working in a minor league qualifies you to run supposedly one of Europe's elite clubs, then I'm lost for words. I played cricket to a decent amateur standard and run my village league once upon a time.....perhaps I should send my application into the ECCB to replace Andy Flower

Gazidis was a major administrator in MLS for 14 years.
Overseeing business and marketing decisions.
The league is doing well considering it is up against four entrenched team sports.

Yes, that qualifies him to work in his current role at Arsenal.

His growing up here supporting a team and playing for his university are nothing to do with him being able to operate in business, but they show that he is not this "suit" who has somehow joined a football club with no prior knowledge of the game, which is an falsehood that you and others have repeatedly tried to pass off as the truth.

"Wouldn't know a football if it hit him in the face" is a pointless phrase with no relation to Gazidis.

Kroenke is different.

He does have football knowledge, but I bet very much less than most people on this Forum in terms of tactics and the history and culture of the sport.
His business acumen on the other hand....

We beg to differ - being an adminsitrator for a minor league with no experience of directly running a major football club does not qualify him to run Arsenal in my opinion. The jobs are entirely different in nature. Dein knew his way around the boardrooms of Europe, this guy does not and has proved that since he's been here.

Kroenke's business acumen is not in question and he will make a lot of money from his investment in Arsenal. I have never doubted that, but it just isn't compelling for fans. Some of the most loathed chairmen in the world have been highly succesful from a business viewpoint. When he's sold the property portfolio for a huge capital gain, repaid the bank debt and sold the club for a higher multiple whilst refusing to invest more than the bare minimum in the squad, will you look back upon this as some sort of golden era for the club?

[officepest]

As for Gazidis's football experience - if playing football for your uni and working in a minor league qualifies you to run supposedly one of Europe's elite clubs, then I'm lost for words. I played cricket to a decent amateur standard and run my village league once upon a time.....perhaps I should send my application into the ECCB to replace Andy Flower

If it came down to a choice between you and the Wheelie Bin then you'd get my vote sir.

[armchair]

Yea. Im not so sure the board are the numpties they are made out to be on here.

Yes while the fourth place trophy money is rolling in and the fans are 'reasonably' happy then they will be content to sit back and defer to Arsene, while counting the cash. And why wouldnt they? Dont rock the boat.

But they will definitely raise an eyebrow when the fans are showing anti-Wenger banners, fighting amongst each other in the stands, marching against the status quo and when the media begin to question Wengers failure and when season ticket projections are not as healthy as they used to be. This is when, I think the board are forced to act. And so they should.

Then, I believe they have to do something and as Quartz surmised, in the case of Ozil, they moved to secure a marquee signing to appease the fans and deflect the media storm that was building. And lets face it - it worked, didn't it?

Now although the Ozil signing was more of a commercial response rather than a footballing one, (as another small skilfull midfielder was not really a position we needed to strengthen) it does show that some of the board were and are aware that Wenger just wouldnt spend, so they had to act. This suggest to me that the board know full well what Wenger is and isnt capable of/prepared to do.

Remember - Wenger has been at the club longer than almost everybody at Arsenal. The board defer to him, he sits in on board meetings, appointed Gazidis and has had a say in/decides way too much for way too long. In many respects when we hear the Wengerite phrase - "Arsene is Arsenal" , its true. But so, so wrong.

I'm hoping that we do the board an injustice on here and they will have the balls to stand up to Wenger and hopefully they'll agree that by mutual consent Wenger will leave after we win the FA Cup. (Wishful thinking eh?)

[QuartzGooner]

We beg to differ - being an adminsitrator for a minor league with no experience of directly running a major football club does not qualify him [Gazidis] to run Arsenal in my opinion. The jobs are entirely different in nature. Dein knew his way around the boardrooms of Europe, this guy does not and has proved that since he's been here.

But Gazidis does not directly run all of a major football club.

He handles the day-to-day business side of things, with main reference to marketing, sales, corporate hospitality, etc and oversees the transfer process.
But there are important caveats, which nullifies your statement that he does not know his "Way round the boardrooms of Europe".

- He has experienced line managers below him, in all departments.
We may not agree with what they do, but they have been around for a while.
[There are clashes between an over-ambitious Marketing Department and the Football side though, both wanting to control the players' time.]

- As has been stated by Herd, Dick Law (and the legal team) are now involved in transfers to a more major extent than Gazidis.
Gazidis I guess is involved to an extent, probably I think he would be one of the two people who actually authorise the bank to release the money for the transfer fee, and I reckon he is involved in the structure of image rights and personal terms.

- Wenger will still get the say-so on most transfers (the Arshavin and Ozil purchases I still think he was pushed into).
So when we have lost out on a player, how much is down to Wenger's dithering?
Or his reluctance to spend, as armchair has pointed out?
Rather than anything Gazidis does?

- Gazidis may not have done the exact same job in the MLS as at Arsenal, but there are masses of overlap.
He would not have been in isolation from Europe either, players were brought into the MLS by the league itself then spread around the clubs.
A number of those players were bought from European teams (and sold to them) and Gazidis would have been involved in this.
Plus attending conferences and networking.

[SteveO 35]

We beg to differ - being an adminsitrator for a minor league with no experience of directly running a major football club does not qualify him [Gazidis] to run Arsenal in my opinion. The jobs are entirely different in nature. Dein knew his way around the boardrooms of Europe, this guy does not and has proved that since he's been here.

But Gazidis does not directly run all of a major football club.He handles the day-to-day business side of things, with main reference to marketing, sales, corporate hospitality, etc and oversees the transfer process.
But there are important caveats, which nullifies your statement that he does not know his "Way round the boardrooms of Europe".

- He has experienced line managers below him, in all departments.
We may not agree with what they do, but they have been around for a while.
[There are clashes between an over-ambitious Marketing Department and the Football side though, both wanting to control the players' time.]

- As has been stated by Herd, Dick Law (and the legal team) are now involved in transfers to a more major extent than Gazidis.
Gazidis I guess is involved to an extent, probably I think he would be one of the two people who actually authorise the bank to release the money for the transfer fee, and I reckon he is involved in the structure of image rights and personal terms.

- Wenger will still get the say-so on most transfers (the Arshavin and Ozil purchases I still think he was pushed into).
So when we have lost out on a player, how much is down to Wenger's dithering?
Or his reluctance to spend, as armchair has pointed out?
Rather than anything Gazidis does?

- Gazidis may not have done the exact same job in the MLS as at Arsenal, but there are masses of overlap.
He would not have been in isolation from Europe either, players were brought into the MLS by the league itself then spread around the clubs.
A number of those players were bought from European teams (and sold to them) and Gazidis would have been involved in this.
Plus attending conferences and networking.

Quartz he is the CEO - he can run what he likes (with Kroenke's blessing). He is a marketeer and and an adminsitrator and your comments about his role in the MLS back that up. That's only part of what's needed in running a club like Arsenal. Perhaps one day (like all marketeers) he'll fall in that the brand is actually reliant upon the quality of the product that sits behind it....the product has suffered ever since he's been CEO and he'll see what demand there is for corporate hospitality and new commercial deals in 3 years time if we're still playing Europa League football and finishing 5th and 6th every year. These are wasted years, and there will not be one tangible thing I'll look back at and say "oh what a great job Gazidis did there"

[QuartzGooner]

Quartz he is the CEO - he can run what he likes (with Kroenke's blessing). He is a marketeer and and an adminsitrator and your comments about his role in the MLS back that up. That's only part of what's needed in running a club like Arsenal. Perhaps one day (like all marketeers) he'll fall in that the brand is actually reliant upon the quality of the product that sits behind it....the product has suffered ever since he's been CEO and he'll see what demand there is for corporate hospitality and new commercial deals in 3 years time if we're still playing Europa League football and finishing 5th and 6th every year. These are wasted years, and there will not be one tangible thing I'll look back at and say "oh what a great job Gazidis did there"

But you back up my point, that Gazidis is an administrator and a brand manger and marketer, (as well as having a legal background prior to working in football.)

He works to Kroenke's brief, his independence is limited to that brief.

The product has suffered because of on the one hand Kroenke's directives as how to allocate resources, and on the other the declined qualities of Wenger, mixed with the increased financial power of other clubs.

Gazidis can be a marketing whizz, but if Wenger does not get us into the Champions League, Gazidis will have a heck of a time trying to sell corporate packages for the Europa fixtures.

I cannot say exactly what I have heard as I have no evidence to back it up apart from being told by someone who knows more than they can reveal, but if what I have been told is true then we will look back on this season as one where the board actually stood up for the supporters against Kroenke.

[Gunner Rob]

this is similar to what I heard from someone who is friends with an Arsenal shareholder who whilst still pro Wenger is very much anti Kroenke and again from what I have heard is the feeling amongst many shareholders.

[SteveO 35]

One thing that is definite is that Kroenke is a "Specialist in Failure" when it comes to on the field success. Much earlier in this thread I posted the league positions of all his 'franchises' across a range of sports from football to lacrosse. If virtual 4th placed trophies were awarded in all of them his cup would floweth over

[brucegrove]

1) Is anyone aware of any instance in which AW has been denied money to buy a desired target?

2) The 'trolley dash' of summer 2011 was quite simply the most surreal moment of AW's reign (until he played a League 1 level striker against Bayern) and has yet to be explained. I've always assumed that clubs have dossiers on possible transfer targets based on regular scouting missions (wasn't RvP watched over 40 times before his purchase?) but that would suggest that Santos was classed as the best (available) left back target in the world at that time. Arteta and Benni being bought without having medicals was astonishing, Park was a punt at £2m but why did we apparently pay another £2or3m to buy him out of his national service when he wasn't even being played?

3) People always moot the return of Dein to assist AW but that belies the fact that the present day AW is a different animal to Dein's protege of yore and wouldn't accede any authority to Dein nowadays anymore than he would to anybody else. Dein would also be a mere employee rather than a shareholder (with power)

4) Wasn't it rumoured that in 2012 Gazidis approached AW at easter to ask him for a list of transfer targets to pursue but was never given it

5) Finally in partial defence of AW, i don't blame him one bit for refusing to splash out £37m on Draxler. If an experienced successful international like Mata is a £37m player, how on earth is a precocious, youngster with largely unproven potential classified at the same price. I also don't blame him for refusing to go over £40m for Suarez, in hindsight we'd all have taken the toothy time bomb but at the time i thought it was an unbelievable risk..shame really as that 30goal signing might well have been enough to win us the league this year

[QuartzGooner]

1) Is anyone aware of any instance in which AW has been denied money to buy a desired target?

I believe that from 2005 - 2008 we were very reluctant as a club to spend big without recouping because of the new stadium's costs.

2) The 'trolley dash' of summer 2011 was quite simply the most surreal moment of AW's reign (until he played a League 1 level striker against Bayern) and has yet to be explained. Arteta and Benni being bought without having medicals was astonishing

The trolley dash needs explaining, but some of it can be explained.
We were supposed to be in for another player (East European) which collapsed, then we moved quickly to secure Arteta.
Benayoun had been in talks with us for over a week, but Chelsea only relented to let him go at the very last minute when they had sorted out their business.

3) People always moot the return of Dein to assist AW but that belies the fact that the present day AW is a different animal to Dein's protege of yore and wouldn't accede any authority to Dein nowadays anymore than he would to anybody else. Dein would also be a mere employee rather than a shareholder (with power)

It would not be much to do with authority.
It would be Dein being a wise old sounding board for Wenger and genuinely having his ear through his personal friendship with and respect for Dein.
Plus Dein would I reckon, be useful in transfer negotiations.
But yes a moot point cannot see Dein returning under Kroenke.

4) Wasn't it rumoured that in 2012 Gazidis approached AW at easter to ask him for a list of transfer targets to pursue but was never given it

No idea.

5) Finally in partial defence of AW, i don't blame him one bit for refusing to splash out £37m on Draxler. If an experienced successful international like Mata is a £37m player, how on earth is a precocious, youngster with largely unproven potential classified at the same price. I also don't blame him for refusing to go over £40m for Suarez, in hindsight we'd all have taken the toothy time bomb but at the time i thought it was an unbelievable risk..

In both cases, surely better than wasting cash on Park, Miyaichi etc?