Arsene Wenger - What Stage Are You At?

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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What Stage Are You At?

1. He's the best manager around, look at what he's achieved, he's got a job for life.
2
7%
2. We may have slipped a bit but he's still doing a good job with the resources he's got, he'll turn it round in time.
1
3%
3. We're not doing well enough but given what he's done for the club and the circumstances I'm willing to give him another year.
2
7%
4. I've still got respect for the man for what he's done but it's time he went quietly.
9
30%
5. He needs to go at all costs, he's an embarrassment, ruining the legacy he worked so hard to create and more importantly poisoning the club.
16
53%
 
Total votes: 30

goonerwalker
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Arsene Wenger - For/Against/Indifferent?

Post by goonerwalker »

MM99 wrote:
armchair supporter wrote:
goonerwalker wrote:AW clearly has his faults and must take a share of the blame for us not currently being in a postion to challenge for the title, but to say he is 'poisioning the club' is simply ridiculous. :roll: :banghead: To lack any respect for the man after what he has achieved for us is ungrateful and very short-sighted. I'm not an AKB but I have the decency to accept that he's still a good manager. Anyway, for me the greater evil is the board, who's exploitation of Arsenal's fanbase through their charging of extortionate ticket prices and complete disresgard for the fans' thoughts and priorities are killing our club more than any manager could
Why does - "I'm not an AKB" always have to be followed by "but"? :rubchin:
Because as soon as someone mentions anything that resembles a defence for Wenger people like you assume that they think the sun shines out his arse; therefore, posters who are in the middle of the spectrum feel as though they need to show that they do realise Wenger isn't all-great even though in the given topic they're siding with him.
I like this guy 8) :D

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northbank123
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Re: What Stage Are You At?

Post by northbank123 »

goonerwalker wrote:
armchair supporter wrote:
goonerwalker wrote:AW clearly has his faults and must take a share of the blame for us not currently being in a postion to challenge for the title, but to say he is 'poisioning the club' is simply ridiculous. :roll: :banghead: To lack any respect for the man after what he has achieved for us is ungrateful and very short-sighted. I'm not an AKB but I have the decency to accept that he's still a good manager. Anyway, for me the greater evil is the board, who's exploitation of Arsenal's fanbase through their charging of extortionate ticket prices and complete disresgard for the fans' thoughts and priorities are killing our club more than any manager could
Why does - "I'm not an AKB" always have to be followed by "but"? :rubchin:
Do we really have to be so narrow-minded as to say that all Gooners have to either think Wenger is a God or that he is evil? I'm not an AKB but I do have a lot of respect for AW, is that not a reasonable stance to take?
I'm genuinely interested to see exactly what you think we should do looking forward then? Presumably sit on the fence and give Wenger x more years and then x years down the line give him y more etc etc etc?

The ticket prices are a valid reason for disillusionment but nothing at all to do with our failure. In fact, that particular exploitation is a reason why we SHOULD be competing for trophies. Unfortunately Wenger has chosen to spunk it away on the wages of several awful players.

Nobody I've met doesn't have respect for what Wenger did during the first half of his reign. However, for many (me included) Wenger is a different man, a shadow of his former self. Every single aspect of him has changed: he's lost his competitive edge, he doesn't boss the transfer market like he used to, he's not an innovator any more, he's the most tactically rigid manager around, the way he carries himself on the touchline and in press conferences is amazing and he's more than happy to join the board in shitting on the fans. This Wenger I don't hold huge respect for.

armchair
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Re: What Stage Are You At?

Post by armchair »

Very true but AKB is easier to say than - "those who want Wenger to stay for varying different reasons" :lol:
Whatever the reason or degree of love they have for Wenger they still want him to stay. That puts them in the Wenger to stay camp for me....... Or AKB

Similairly theres those who hate Wenger, want him hounded out, castrated, shot etc... And theres those who would love to see him leave with dignity, leaving his legacy intact. They still want him out, so WOB

See - all neat and tidy. :barscarf:

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DB10_TH14
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Re: What Stage Are You At?

Post by DB10_TH14 »

armchair supporter wrote:Very true but AKB is easier to say than - "those who want Wenger to stay for varying different reasons" :lol:
Whatever the reason or degree of love they have for Wenger they still want him to stay. That puts them in the Wenger to stay camp for me....... Or AKB

Similairly theres those who hate Wenger, want him hounded out, castrated, shot etc... And theres those who would love to see him leave with dignity, leaving his legacy intact. They still want him out, so WOB

See - all neat and tidy. :barscarf:
the man makes a valid point :D

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franksav63
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Re: What Stage Are You At?

Post by franksav63 »

g88ner wrote:
Steve_I wrote:if we were managerless and Arsene had never managed us but was available with his current record but from a different club, we'd be wanting him - is a view of mine)
Just out of interest, which current record are you referring to?

Are you including 1998-2006 in that? or concentrating on the matter at hand i.e. the alarming decline over recent seasons?

Because if you turn your agrument on it's head, and ask if Wenger had left after the Champions League final in 2006 and was replaced by a manager (lets call him John Smith) who then went on to win nothing for the next 6 years, replaced all of our experienced players with a youth project that didn't really work, oversaw a staggering decline in quality, a decline in defensive stability (we conceded a whopping 49 last season! - and not much better in the 3 previous seasons either), and had overseen an 8-2 defeat at Old Trafford, as well as having the worst start to a season in 17 years last year, and worst start in 18 years this season, would you still be happy to retain him as manager?

And what if we'd gone from signing gems like Henry, Pires, Anelka, Cesc, RvP, Vieira, etc. (all pre-2006) and instead 'John Smith' was bringing through (and endlessly playing) players of lesser talent and lesser character, would you be ok with that?

And what if, together with this staggering decline, our entertainment value had also plummeted at the same rate as our ticket prices went up? and what if he was tactically naive, and spent most of the games berating the 4th official, and talking nonsense in interviews? what if he'd insisted on getting players like Bendtner, Denilson, Chamakh, Squillaci, Almunia, etc. on long contracts that make them dead-weights... and what if he over-relied on injury prone players that constantly handicapped us when they inevitably spend months on the sidelines? and what if he'd removed any sign of leadership from the team? and... ah, you get the idea. :(

Personally, I think people are [understandably] unable to seperate the great Wenger from the John Smith bloke :( but for me, he used to be top quality champagne, bubbling and fizzing away in all his glory... now he's a flat, watered down, pint of John Smith's :(
What a great post!!

:barscarf:

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DB10_TH14
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Re: What Stage Are You At?

Post by DB10_TH14 »

i think if you're an akb or u dont class yourself as an akb but you want wenger to stay surely its hard to find a plausible reason why he should stay on. we all love arsenal their is no doubting that but so many people see wenger bigger than the club which is total bull, saturday just summed up the the last 6 years for me and various players are coming out now saying we was flat and everton is a must win game etc etc well why the fuck wasent villa a must win game?!?!?! i really wish it could work out for wenger just cannot see it no more, same mistakes are being made over and over and you see it in the team in how inconsistent we are. no matter how much change is wanted though, never want us to lose to prove a point. even if we finish outside the top 4 :oops: :oops: still cant see them gettin rid

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northbank123
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Re: What Stage Are You At?

Post by northbank123 »

I agree, think Wenger will be offered a new contract whatever before the season's out. Hopefully he will get so disillusioned himself that he'll quit.

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DB10_TH14
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Re: What Stage Are You At?

Post by DB10_TH14 »

northbank123 wrote:I agree, think Wenger will be offered a new contract whatever before the season's out. Hopefully he will get so disillusioned himself that he'll quit.
he probably wont sign nothing till at least next season either way i dont think though part of me thinks he could walk after 2014

MM99
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Re: What Stage Are You At?

Post by MM99 »

armchair supporter wrote:Very true but AKB is easier to say than - "those who want Wenger to stay for varying different reasons" :lol:
Whatever the reason or degree of love they have for Wenger they still want him to stay. That puts them in the Wenger to stay camp for me....... Or AKB

Similairly theres those who hate Wenger, want him hounded out, castrated, shot etc... And theres those who would love to see him leave with dignity, leaving his legacy intact. They still want him out, so WOB

See - all neat and tidy. :barscarf:
Correct me if I'm wrong but AKB refers to 'Arsene Knows Brigade', as in the section of fans who believe that Wenger knows everything, makes no mistakes and is unquestionable. It is possible to want Wenger to stay as manager but not think that he is infallible.

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DB10_TH14
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Re: What Stage Are You At?

Post by DB10_TH14 »

MM99 wrote:
armchair supporter wrote:Very true but AKB is easier to say than - "those who want Wenger to stay for varying different reasons" :lol:
Whatever the reason or degree of love they have for Wenger they still want him to stay. That puts them in the Wenger to stay camp for me....... Or AKB

Similairly theres those who hate Wenger, want him hounded out, castrated, shot etc... And theres those who would love to see him leave with dignity, leaving his legacy intact. They still want him out, so WOB

See - all neat and tidy. :barscarf:
Correct me if I'm wrong but AKB refers to 'Arsene Knows Brigade', as in the section of fans who believe that Wenger knows everything, makes no mistakes and is unquestionable. It is possible to want Wenger to stay as manager but not think that he is infallible.
the forum doesnt believe in any middle ground :rubchin: you're either WOB or AKB

Steve_I
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Re: What Stage Are You At?

Post by Steve_I »

MM99 wrote:
armchair supporter wrote:Very true but AKB is easier to say than - "those who want Wenger to stay for varying different reasons" :lol:
Whatever the reason or degree of love they have for Wenger they still want him to stay. That puts them in the Wenger to stay camp for me....... Or AKB

Similairly theres those who hate Wenger, want him hounded out, castrated, shot etc... And theres those who would love to see him leave with dignity, leaving his legacy intact. They still want him out, so WOB

See - all neat and tidy. :barscarf:
Correct me if I'm wrong but AKB refers to 'Arsene Knows Brigade', as in the section of fans who believe that Wenger knows everything, makes no mistakes and is unquestionable. It is possible to want Wenger to stay as manager but not think that he is infallible.
I think that's what Armchair was saying tbf. It's semantics but what seems to have happened, on this forum anyway, is that AKB appears to have become seen as, and be used as, an insult. This in turn leads folk to become defensive and therefore apologetic when saying something in defense of Arsene or why they still believe he should stay. just saying

richpye
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Re: What Stage Are You At?

Post by richpye »

MM99 wrote:
armchair supporter wrote:Very true but AKB is easier to say than - "those who want Wenger to stay for varying different reasons" :lol:
Whatever the reason or degree of love they have for Wenger they still want him to stay. That puts them in the Wenger to stay camp for me....... Or AKB

Similairly theres those who hate Wenger, want him hounded out, castrated, shot etc... And theres those who would love to see him leave with dignity, leaving his legacy intact. They still want him out, so WOB

See - all neat and tidy. :barscarf:
Correct me if I'm wrong but AKB refers to 'Arsene Knows Brigade', as in the section of fans who believe that Wenger knows everything, makes no mistakes and is unquestionable. It is possible to want Wenger to stay as manager but not think that he is infallible.
Spot on point. Whilst being a lot more positive than most posters, I wouldn't call myself an AKB either. I'm the one caught in the middle plucking splinters out of my arse

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RocastleRock
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Arsene Wenger - For/Against/Indifferent?

Post by RocastleRock »

I'm starting to feel sorry for Arsene. I honestly don't think he can be blamed for the current decline. It runs much deeper than the manager, and any other manager forced to make a profit from transfers every season would have us finishing 6th/7th maybe lower.

He has his fault's don't get me wrong, but i think he loves the club and is trying his best.

I'll probably get called a c@@t for saying it but quite frankly I couldn't give a f@@k, thats my opinion.

Steve_I
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Re: What Stage Are You At?

Post by Steve_I »

augie wrote:he knows that past successes has bought him god like status with many Gooners which has shielded him from the anger that he would face if he was performing like this at a different club
There's lots of points in the thread above that I want to respond to but here's my thoughts on reading the bold bit above.

At time of writing there are 5 clubs in a better position than us in the PL. There is but one other English club on a par with us in Europe (i.e definitely in last 16). There are 7 teams left in as good a position as us in the league cup...

some of those 13 teams are the same team of course (eg manure in CL and PL) so that leaves a lot by my reckoning who would happily swap places with us and have their manager performing to Arsene's level. Therefore were he performing like this at a different club there may well not be the anger you predict.

Of course I know I am being facetious there but I am trying to make a point that perhaps I don't view Arsene with the same vitriol as a few, the same cynical eye as many or the same frustrated/end of tether viewpoint as most hereabouts because I don't see that we are in as desperate situation as many believe.

It is very hard to put in writing a new argument or view that hasn't already been aired in this forum and shot down.

1989
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Arsene Wenger - For/Against/Indifferent?

Post by 1989 »

I'm at stage 5. I simply can't stand the bloke. I want him gone as soon as possible and I think him remaining at the helm is detrimental to our future as a football team.

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