Centre back

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Grant jones
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Centre back

Post by Grant jones »

Was at the game yesterday and although he has his moments Gabriel ain't as good as Per! There I've said it !!!!!!

officepest
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Re: Centre back

Post by officepest »

Grant jones wrote:Was at the game yesterday and although he has his moments Gabriel ain't as good as Per! There I've said it !!!!!!
Gabriel is actually regressing at an alarming rate and wouldn't look out of place turning out for a Sunday league side.

Per (whom I actually like :oops: ) is slower than a stationary object and a coward to boot.

It's pretty fucking embarrassing that Koscielny is our best centre-half, because he is as pathetic as often as he is good. It's also a good job our handsomely remunerated manager knows of these individual deficiencies and drills us well to defend as a team, otherwise we'd be up shit creek. :roll:

If we had a manager that actually gave two shits about defending and team cohesion we might get away with such sub-standard fare; but with Wenger at the helm we're going to need actual top-drawer centre-halves who will organise on the pitch in lieu of managerial instruction.

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northbank123
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Re: Centre back

Post by northbank123 »

It's like choosing between a poke in the eye and a kick in the balls. Whichever one is playing, I feel like the other one couldnt do any worse.

To be honest we could have two great centre backs in front of a great keeper and we would not have a great defence. The team does not understand how to defend. We encourage full backs to bomb forward with complete abandon, we have an inexperienced DM in Coquelin who has nowhere near enough discipline in a variety of ways, we have no coherent pressing strategy, we have central players like Ramsey who constantly lose the ball in dangerous positions and we expect forward players like Sanchez (and previously the likes of Podolski and Arshavin) to spend half their time tracking back.

We have had some good CBs like Vermaelen and Koscielny who admittedly have some flaws but just look like chumps half the time in our defence.

That said Mertesacker is a carthorse and a coward who despite being freakishly tall I have never seen win a header, and Gabriel is a walking disaster who induces complete panic and looks every bit like he hasn't been fucked to learn the language.

Never rated Ashley Williams hugely but for me we need to sign a CB who has proved that they can do a decent fucking job in the PL rather than plucking people from mid-table sides in France or Spain.

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SteveO 35
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Re: Centre back

Post by SteveO 35 »

Gabriel is a walking fucking disaster and has some how managed to be more of a powder puff liability than Mertesacker which is quite an achievement. I've often questioned why our supposed wonderful Academy can't produce centre forwards.....but when's the last time they produced a CB of any quality. I'm actually struggling to think of any.

Ignasi Miquel - he was supposed to be the wonder boy wasn't he? The next Pique? Well fuck my old boots I just looked him up and he's at Segunda Dvision, Ponferradina.....wallowing in 17th place, 4 points above dropping down to the third tier of Spanish football. I also remember all the hype about us signing Havard Nordtveit who spent almost 4 years with us and has now converted to a CDM in Germany. Senderos? Couldn't make it at shitty old Villa and now back in Switzerland barely having played 20 games in 3 seasons.

Good job he brought in all those experienced pros to show them the way like Squillachi and Silvestre.

Honestly - the man is utterly clueless when it comes to developing or buying CBs. Koscielny is the only one in recent times who passes for a half decent CB and his value has only been lauded to the extent it has because invariably he's surrounded by utter wankers in our back line

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Sean
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Re: Centre back

Post by Sean »

Mertesacker - Did a job in the first few seasons, had good international pedigree, but is a total coward.

Kosceilny - The least worst, but has zero presence and communication.

Gabriel - Seemed promising but has regressed. Is seemingly unable to learn languages.
northbank123 wrote:It's like choosing between a poke in the eye and a kick in the balls. Whichever one is playing, I feel like the other one couldnt do any worse.

To be honest we could have two great centre backs in front of a great keeper and we would not have a great defence. The team does not understand how to defend. We encourage full backs to bomb forward with complete abandon, we have an inexperienced DM in Coquelin who has nowhere near enough discipline in a variety of ways, we have no coherent pressing strategy, we have central players like Ramsey who constantly lose the ball in dangerous positions and we expect forward players like Sanchez (and previously the likes of Podolski and Arshavin) to spend half their time tracking back.

We have had some good CBs like Vermaelen and Koscielny who admittedly have some flaws but just look like chumps half the time in our defence.

That said Mertesacker is a carthorse and a coward who despite being freakishly tall I have never seen win a header, and Gabriel is a walking disaster who induces complete panic and looks every bit like he hasn't been fucked to learn the language.
Agreed. We are not set up to defend at all. I'm sure that even Adams and Bould would be exposed with these jokers rushing forward with abandon. Playground defending will never win any team a title. We are so fucking porous at the back, yet we'll pass sideways around the box at the other end. It's fucking painful to watch.

It's a shame that our assistant manager isn't allowed to do his job by his fraudulent dictator of a manager.
officepest wrote:If we had a manager that actually gave two shits about defending and team cohesion we might get away with such sub-standard fare; but with Wenger at the helm we're going to need actual top-drawer centre-halves who will organise on the pitch in lieu of managerial instruction.
Yes, although TOF doesn't seem to like independently-minded players who can run the game on their own - as we so desperately NEED - so we're stuck with the blind leading the blind for a few more years yet :suicide:

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Eboue-Why?
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Re: Centre back

Post by Eboue-Why? »

Jesus, this is the part of our team that winds me up most about Wenger and cheers for starting up a thread Grant!
We all know about what he inherited when he first took over and I know people will argue that he built the Invincibles back four but he just doesn't know how to buy or coach defenders. Saturday was just classic Arsenal wanky defending. Stop the supply and you're 90% there and if you can't do that make sure you have people responsible enough to communicate with each other and identifying who's gonna pick up the big man when the cross comes in. If Bouldy is allowed to coach then he's failing miserably and if he is and they're not listening then fucking get them off the pitch. The only time I see them talking to each other is at a free kick when they're trying to hold a high line but nobody ever bollocks anyone, old phrase I know but no fucking do or die leader (and no Arsene don't patronise me by saying there's 11 leaders on the pitch) and as for Zonal fucking marking?!?!?!
For 20 years he's always believed that the best form of defence is attack. Well that might be true if your attack consists of Dennis, Henry, Pires, Freddie etc He refuses to accept change. He wants ball players and athletes at the back rather than proper ball winning leaders. Drives me fucking insane. Does anyone think we'd have drawn that game with say Morgan and Huth in there on Saturday.or any manager able to accept that defending needs to be coached?
He even admitted it after the game. WELL DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT THEN MR 'I BUILT THIS CLUB' WENGER

supergeorgegraham
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Re: Centre back

Post by supergeorgegraham »

I think this is the best post in the whole forum. Centre Back has been the reason why we have never won the League since 2004. Wenger is useless at spotted and signing a top quality CB.
If you look at the amount of shite we have signed in that position it's amazing we finished in the top 4.
He signs Sol Campbell paired with a decent Toure and we go unbeaten for 49 games.
Koscielny is a good player no doubt about that. Metesacker is decent but far far to slow. Gabriel is now looking like another poor poor signing when we needed someone really good and solid.
God knows why we paid Southampton 16 Million for Chambers he doesn't even have a position apart from sub.

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DB10GOONER
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Re: Centre back

Post by DB10GOONER »

For me Kos is the less shit of the 3 but is prone to brain-farts.

Gab started well but has deffo regressed.

Mert is a coward, is also prone to brain-farts and has the turning circle of an oil tanker.

TBH, if we are being brutally honest none of them are really good enough to play in a PL winning team (certainly not Mert and Gab). If we had a really top top CH in there with Kos then maybe Kos's game would improve as sometimes players play better when paired with top quality team mates.

So here we are going into the summer AGAIN needing a top DM (Coquelin is ok but he does not dominate the midfield or the game like a top DM should do), a top CH (or two) and a top striker. And what will Wenger do? Nothing. :roll:

Gunner Rob
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Re: Centre back

Post by Gunner Rob »

the point is it no longer matter WHO Wenger buys.

he will either not coach them, or he will ruin them by overplaying them.

last season we conceded 35 goals in the Premier League.
this season we have already conceded 33 goals with six games to go.

do you remember how all the AKB's spent the summer saying how we would be so much better defensively now that we had bought Cech?
how is that going then :roll:

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augie
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Re: Centre back

Post by augie »

officepest wrote:
Grant jones wrote:Was at the game yesterday and although he has his moments Gabriel ain't as good as Per! There I've said it !!!!!!
Gabriel is actually regressing at an alarming rate and wouldn't look out of place turning out for a Sunday league side.

Per (whom I actually like
:oops: ) is slower than a stationary object and a coward to boot.

It's pretty fucking embarrassing that Koscielny is our best centre-half, because he is as pathetic as often as he is good. It's also a good job our handsomely remunerated manager knows of these individual deficiencies and drills us well to defend as a team, otherwise we'd be up shit creek. :roll:

If we had a manager that actually gave two shits about defending and team cohesion we might get away with such sub-standard fare; but with Wenger at the helm we're going to need actual top-drawer centre-halves who will organise on the pitch in lieu of managerial instruction.


And I got duly lambasted early in the season for suggesting that Gabriel isn't as good as the BFG - I don't give a f.uck what level you play at, but for a centre back at any level to give up the goal that he did at Norwich, is shambolic and suggests a total lack of understanding of playing the position :shock: :oops:

We all know that the BFG's best days are gone and he should not be first choice anymore at any big club (though he should be ahead of Gabriel), but my thing is that kos always seems to play better alongside him - for me kos is fast to recover/chase back, but he still needs to be coached/talked through a game, and for that reason he needs someone like mertesacker alongside him

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augie
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Re: Centre back

Post by augie »

DB10GOONER wrote:For me Kos is the less shit of the 3 but is prone to brain-farts.

Gab started well but has deffo regressed.

Mert is a coward, is also prone to brain-farts and has the turning circle of an oil tanker.

TBH, if we are being brutally honest none of them are really good enough to play in a PL winning team (certainly not Mert and Gab). If we had a really top top CH in there with Kos then maybe Kos's game would improve as sometimes players play better when paired with top quality team mates.

So here we are going into the summer AGAIN needing a top DM (Coquelin is ok but he does not dominate the midfield or the game like a top DM should do), a top CH (or two) and a top striker. And what will Wenger do? Nothing. :roll:


If le cock remains in charge next season I really hope that he buys NOBODY in the summer - it will be hard enough accepting that the c.unt will still be in charge (thus writing off yet another season :x ), but if I have to listen to the akb w.ankers talking him up after going on a spending spree, then it really will be time to end it all :suicide:
Anyway lets face it, it doesn't matter who the senile b*stard buys cos he doesn't know how to utilise the players he has, and he certainly doesn't know how to set up a team or do any form of tactics :oops: I am really expecting ozil to f.uck off in the summer (if wenker remains in charge) but I would rather that any transfer kitty be held back for use whenever we get a manager that is competent and knows how to buy players and build a team

Robin_L
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Re: Centre back

Post by Robin_L »

There is a stat out there somewhere about the high proportion of our goals conceded from set pieces / balls into the box. Again.

In open play we've been mostly pretty solid in the league this year, no amount of hand-wringing from you lot can change that. We've also shipped a few unnecessary ones when Mertesacker was playing earlier in the season and getting caught with a high line up the pitch with Bellerin unable to get back in time.

Laurent Koscielny is one of the best centre backs in the league. Not the best header at set pieces admittedly, but we lack anyone in our team who can do that. Mertesacker is past it sadly, Gabriel throws in a couple of shockers amongst some decent games. If you look back at the Everton thread I think it was, you lot were all praising him :lol:

Anyway we're conceding fewer goals with Coquelin / Elneny in there, the problem is more the other end of the pitch. Maybe Mertesacker would've been a better pick vs Andy Carroll but who knows.

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DB10GOONER
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Re: Centre back

Post by DB10GOONER »

Robin_L wrote:There is a stat out there somewhere about the high proportion of our goals conceded from set pieces / balls into the box. Again.

In open play we've been mostly pretty solid in the league this year, no amount of hand-wringing from you lot can change that. We've also shipped a few unnecessary ones when Mertesacker was playing earlier in the season and getting caught with a high line up the pitch with Bellerin unable to get back in time.

Laurent Koscielny is one of the best centre backs in the league. Not the best header at set pieces admittedly, but we lack anyone in our team who can do that. Mertesacker is past it sadly, Gabriel throws in a couple of shockers amongst some decent games. If you look back at the Everton thread I think it was, you lot were all praising him :lol:

Anyway we're conceding fewer goals with Coquelin / Elneny in there, the problem is more the other end of the pitch. Maybe Mertesacker would've been a better pick vs Andy Carroll but who knows.
And yet we have conceded 17 goals in our last 10 games.

And scored 20.

Which would seem to suggest the opposite to what you are saying.

And if you actually read the posts you love to snipe at on here you will see most posters are saying yes he started well enough but has regressed badly over the season and the last few games in particular. There is nothing wrong in saying a player had a good game or games - equally if the player is now shit, we are entitled to say that too.

arseofacrow
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Re: Centre back

Post by arseofacrow »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Robin_L wrote:There is a stat out there somewhere about the high proportion of our goals conceded from set pieces / balls into the box. Again.

In open play we've been mostly pretty solid in the league this year, no amount of hand-wringing from you lot can change that. We've also shipped a few unnecessary ones when Mertesacker was playing earlier in the season and getting caught with a high line up the pitch with Bellerin unable to get back in time.

Laurent Koscielny is one of the best centre backs in the league. Not the best header at set pieces admittedly, but we lack anyone in our team who can do that. Mertesacker is past it sadly, Gabriel throws in a couple of shockers amongst some decent games. If you look back at the Everton thread I think it was, you lot were all praising him :lol:

Anyway we're conceding fewer goals with Coquelin / Elneny in there, the problem is more the other end of the pitch. Maybe Mertesacker would've been a better pick vs Andy Carroll but who knows.
And yet we have conceded 17 goals in our last 10 games.

And scored 20.

Which would seem to suggest the opposite to what you are saying.

And if you actually read the posts you love to snipe at on here you will see most posters are saying yes he started well enough but has regressed badly over the season and the last few games in particular. There is nothing wrong in saying a player had a good game or games - equally if the player is now shit, we are entitled to say that too.
I think Robin's saying that the manager needs to be replaced.

:barscarf:

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DB10GOONER
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Re: Centre back

Post by DB10GOONER »

arseofacrow wrote:
DB10GOONER wrote:
Robin_L wrote:There is a stat out there somewhere about the high proportion of our goals conceded from set pieces / balls into the box. Again.

In open play we've been mostly pretty solid in the league this year, no amount of hand-wringing from you lot can change that. We've also shipped a few unnecessary ones when Mertesacker was playing earlier in the season and getting caught with a high line up the pitch with Bellerin unable to get back in time.

Laurent Koscielny is one of the best centre backs in the league. Not the best header at set pieces admittedly, but we lack anyone in our team who can do that. Mertesacker is past it sadly, Gabriel throws in a couple of shockers amongst some decent games. If you look back at the Everton thread I think it was, you lot were all praising him :lol:

Anyway we're conceding fewer goals with Coquelin / Elneny in there, the problem is more the other end of the pitch. Maybe Mertesacker would've been a better pick vs Andy Carroll but who knows.
And yet we have conceded 17 goals in our last 10 games.

And scored 20.

Which would seem to suggest the opposite to what you are saying.

And if you actually read the posts you love to snipe at on here you will see most posters are saying yes he started well enough but has regressed badly over the season and the last few games in particular. There is nothing wrong in saying a player had a good game or games - equally if the player is now shit, we are entitled to say that too.
I think Robin's saying that the manager needs to be replaced.

:barscarf:
:lol:

But who would we replace him with??!!!! Be careful what you wish for! We could end up doing a Leeds!!! :whee:

Did I miss any? :-P :wink:

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