ALL Transfer talk - merged thread

[OneBardGooner]

Guendouzi.......Be interesting if any other clubs come in for him......doubt it somehow

Something tells me we're stuck with him - he's an okay player, but if reports are true his attitude stinks and he has pissed off quite a few of the players as well as the coaches.

Maybe we can give him to one of our mid-table rivals?

[Redarmy]

To be fair to the lad he covers a lot of ground closing down space, but creatively limited, offers no threat going forward and think he could do more with his passing instead of playing the safe ball....hear hes only a youngster at 21....but that was Wally Wallcots excuse now hes older hes still average to worse

[augie]

To be fair to the lad he covers a lot of ground closing down space, but creatively limited, offers no threat going forward and think he could do more with his passing instead of playing the safe ball....hear hes only a youngster at 21....but that was Wally Wallcots excuse now hes older hes still average to worse

I'm not having a pop at you per se, but in recent years there has been an obsession with technical ball players - what happened to having a balance in a team cos wenger teams proved that having 11 ball players wins you fcuk all. Partnerships where one player compliments another is what should be the aim - in midfield you should have 1 destroyer and 1 creative player, and in defence you should have 1 TA6 like dominant physical player with a paul mcgrath type player to mop up around him.

As a football nation, fans nowadays have been brainwashed to believe that all players need to be very good technically - guendouzi and torreira are not that type of player, but what they will do is get in the opposition players faces and disrupt their game and then give the ball to a ceballos type of player to create for the strikers

[GoonerMuzz]

To be fair to the lad he covers a lot of ground closing down space, but creatively limited, offers no threat going forward and think he could do more with his passing instead of playing the safe ball....hear hes only a youngster at 21....but that was Wally Wallcots excuse now hes older hes still average to worse

I'm not having a pop at you per se, but in recent years there has been an obsession with technical ball players - what happened to having a balance in a team cos wenger teams proved that having 11 ball players wins you fcuk all. Partnerships where one player compliments another is what should be the aim - in midfield you should have 1 destroyer and 1 creative player, and in defence you should have 1 TA6 like dominant physical player with a paul mcgrath type player to mop up around him.

As a football nation, fans nowadays have been brainwashed to believe that all players need to be very good technically - guendouzi and torreira are not that type of player, but what they will do is get in the opposition players faces and disrupt their game and then give the ball to a ceballos type of player to create for the strikers

Augie a few of us see Guendozi as none of the above, neither technical ball player or midfield enforcer, so what is he in your opinion

[augie]

To be fair to the lad he covers a lot of ground closing down space, but creatively limited, offers no threat going forward and think he could do more with his passing instead of playing the safe ball....hear hes only a youngster at 21....but that was Wally Wallcots excuse now hes older hes still average to worse

I'm not having a pop at you per se, but in recent years there has been an obsession with technical ball players - what happened to having a balance in a team cos wenger teams proved that having 11 ball players wins you fcuk all. Partnerships where one player compliments another is what should be the aim - in midfield you should have 1 destroyer and 1 creative player, and in defence you should have 1 TA6 like dominant physical player with a paul mcgrath type player to mop up around him.

As a football nation, fans nowadays have been brainwashed to believe that all players need to be very good technically - guendouzi and torreira are not that type of player, but what they will do is get in the opposition players faces and disrupt their game and then give the ball to a ceballos type of player to create for the strikers

Augie a few of us see Guendozi as none of the above, neither technical ball player or midfield enforcer, so what is he in your opinion

And I have no problem with fans who have that opinion even though I dont agree with it - the point I was making was in relation to the lack of creativity label being put on him as though it alone should be enough of a reason to get rid.

Me I believe that guendouzi is a destroyer in the gattuso mould (although clearly not as good yet) - he isnt a baller and never will be, but he harries and hassles the opposition players and annoys the fcuk out of them. Gattuso was such a huge success for milan cos he had a ball player like pirlo alongside him and he was humble enough to accept that he was only there to do the hard work for pirlo - guendouzi doesnt seem to have matured enough yet to realise that he isnt gods gift to football and that he is there to do the dirty unspectacular work in midfield. If he settles down and accepts what he is good at and what he isnt good enough at, and IF he has a manager to mould him and coach him, then he can be a great player for years to come - sadly I feel that he will become that player for another club

[Retro Gunner]

To be fair to the lad he covers a lot of ground closing down space, but creatively limited, offers no threat going forward and think he could do more with his passing instead of playing the safe ball....hear hes only a youngster at 21....but that was Wally Wallcots excuse now hes older hes still average to worse

I'm not having a pop at you per se, but in recent years there has been an obsession with technical ball players - what happened to having a balance in a team cos wenger teams proved that having 11 ball players wins you fcuk all. Partnerships where one player compliments another is what should be the aim - in midfield you should have 1 destroyer and 1 creative player, and in defence you should have 1 TA6 like dominant physical player with a paul mcgrath type player to mop up around him.

As a football nation, fans nowadays have been brainwashed to believe that all players need to be very good technically - guendouzi and torreira are not that type of player, but what they will do is get in the opposition players faces and disrupt their game and then give the ball to a ceballos type of player to create for the strikers

Augie a few of us see Guendozi as none of the above, neither technical ball player or midfield enforcer, so what is he in your opinion

I'm with Augie on this one Muzz. I think he's been pretty clear about what he does, but in my opinion, he's high energy, he closes down, gets tackles in, intercepts and does a lot of that in and around our box when we're under pressure (which is very often !). He also carries the ball forward and looks to make forward passes. Last, but not least, he's spiky and bollocks his own failing team mates (thank fuck some one tries to) and will stand up to the intimidation of the opposition, where we're used to our nancy boys wilting.

You have to look at Guendouzi in the context of what we've got in the squad. We're a mid table outfit and with the demise of Torreira, for whatever reason, Guendouzi is the best centre mid we've got imo, although Ceballos is more creative and is looking good lately.

Let's put it this way...neither myself, nor I'm sure Augie, consider that Guendouzi is the next PV4, but he sure ain't Granit Xhaka either !

[Redarmy]

To be fair to the lad he covers a lot of ground closing down space, but creatively limited, offers no threat going forward and think he could do more with his passing instead of playing the safe ball....hear hes only a youngster at 21....but that was Wally Wallcots excuse now hes older hes still average to worse

I'm not having a pop at you per se, but in recent years there has been an obsession with technical ball players - what happened to having a balance in a team cos wenger teams proved that having 11 ball players wins you fcuk all. Partnerships where one player compliments another is what should be the aim - in midfield you should have 1 destroyer and 1 creative player, and in defence you should have 1 TA6 like dominant physical player with a paul mcgrath type player to mop up around him.

As a football nation, fans nowadays have been brainwashed to believe that all players need to be very good technically - guendouzi and torreira are not that type of player, but what they will do is get in the opposition players faces and disrupt their game and then give the ball to a ceballos type of player to create for the strikers

yeah agree with above, hes the water carrier in the middle, personally dont think he does enough, hes not a tackler but does put a shift in.......

Torreira is a mystery as to why hes played so few games

[GoonerMuzz]

I know we all say we need to give the youngsters time to develop but in this case more than any other position it is not one we can wait on and hope he comes into his own, we get utterly raped in the holding midfield role far too often and everyone on here has said at one time or another we are particularly weak there.

Personally i just don't see him as the solution, if we had a very good player for him to be the understudy too then maybe he might develop but when you have clubfoot* Xhaka and the in/out of form Torriera as the options then we do not have the luxury of a potentially disruptive or petty player to bring through and straighten out especially with Arteta as the coach.

[Nos89]

Agree with this. A goal keeper who catches the ball. Who'd have thought we'd see that skill returning to the game? He has shown glimpses over the last 10 years of being a quality keeper, but given his performances I'd put him ahead of Leno, simply because he catches the ball and mixes it up with the throw or long kick rather than the tippy tappy around the penalty area.
On Guendouzi, he hasn't set out what he actually does on the pitch. Does he score? does he assist? is he a hard tackler? haven't seen any of that in the last 3 seasons. He may well be a good player when he can actually show exactly what he brings to the table. I only see a player that exemplifies everything that has been wrong with our midfield for the last few seasons, great technical ability, can't tackle and doesn't make assists. I remember Denilson having more to his game than I've seen from Guendouzi.

I happen to think that there's a quality player in Guendouzi, especially as he's only just 21 and I've been happy with him so far. I see a bloke with energy, good technical ability, who carries the ball forward, but also gets busy closing down oppostion attacks in midfield and in and around our area. in short, the things that a centre mid should do. I'd concede that he isn't particularly creative going forward, but he's young.

On a more interesting note, who exactly amongst our centre mid illuminati do you consider to be better than Guendouzi? Around 18 months ago, I'd have said Torreira, but I'm not so sure now, as I think he's another poor bastard that we've ruined. So, keen to hear your take, because even if he's shit (which I don't think), it's surely a case of who's the shittest of all the shit we've got in centre mid and in my book, there's plenty more shit than him.

Of our current midfielders Cellabos, Torreira, Xhaka (yes) and Willock are better players than guendouzi. Guendouzi has not established a style of play that makes you trust him in the midfield. Problem is our midfield needs better players than we currently have and Guendouzi does not fit the criteria. He may be talented but what does he do with that talent? He has never produced a display that makes me think he's the real deal. He's made 82 appearances for the club, 1 goal and 4 assists over 2 seasons. Not good enough, not worth the hassle, cash in on his potential and get a better midfielder.
[/quote]


We do indeed need better players than we’ve got, but the question was who is better than Guendouzi and you pretty much said every centre mid we’ve got, including Xhaka !!! Suffice to say that Xhaka is the single worst centre mid I’ve ever seen at the club...by some margin. I think you’ve sunk your argument by citing that clown as better than Guendouzi, at least in the eyes of most on this forum.

I’ve already explained what I think Guendouzi brings, but you can’t see anything he offers. Fair enough, but tell me what Willock brings to the table, because I sure can’t see anything? As for Toreirra, I thought 18 months ago that we had a real star on our hands, but for whatever reason, those wheels have come off. He’s a shadow of his former self and I suspect he’ll be gone this summer.

I don’t see anyone offering more than Matteo in our centre mid.
[/quote]

I admire your support of him. What has he offerred our midfield that differs greatly from the rest of them? All I see is 1 goal and 4 assists over two seasons. That is a piss poor return from the next best thing as you claim him to be.
I'm sure he'll become a fine player, but not at Arsenal, nor in the premier league.

[augie]

Agree with this. A goal keeper who catches the ball. Who'd have thought we'd see that skill returning to the game? He has shown glimpses over the last 10 years of being a quality keeper, but given his performances I'd put him ahead of Leno, simply because he catches the ball and mixes it up with the throw or long kick rather than the tippy tappy around the penalty area.
On Guendouzi, he hasn't set out what he actually does on the pitch. Does he score? does he assist? is he a hard tackler? haven't seen any of that in the last 3 seasons. He may well be a good player when he can actually show exactly what he brings to the table. I only see a player that exemplifies everything that has been wrong with our midfield for the last few seasons, great technical ability, can't tackle and doesn't make assists. I remember Denilson having more to his game than I've seen from Guendouzi.

I happen to think that there's a quality player in Guendouzi, especially as he's only just 21 and I've been happy with him so far. I see a bloke with energy, good technical ability, who carries the ball forward, but also gets busy closing down oppostion attacks in midfield and in and around our area. in short, the things that a centre mid should do. I'd concede that he isn't particularly creative going forward, but he's young.

On a more interesting note, who exactly amongst our centre mid illuminati do you consider to be better than Guendouzi? Around 18 months ago, I'd have said Torreira, but I'm not so sure now, as I think he's another poor bastard that we've ruined. So, keen to hear your take, because even if he's shit (which I don't think), it's surely a case of who's the shittest of all the shit we've got in centre mid and in my book, there's plenty more shit than him.

Of our current midfielders Cellabos, Torreira, Xhaka (yes) and Willock are better players than guendouzi. Guendouzi has not established a style of play that makes you trust him in the midfield. Problem is our midfield needs better players than we currently have and Guendouzi does not fit the criteria. He may be talented but what does he do with that talent? He has never produced a display that makes me think he's the real deal. He's made 82 appearances for the club, 1 goal and 4 assists over 2 seasons. Not good enough, not worth the hassle, cash in on his potential and get a better midfielder.

We do indeed need better players than we’ve got, but the question was who is better than Guendouzi and you pretty much said every centre mid we’ve got, including Xhaka !!! Suffice to say that Xhaka is the single worst centre mid I’ve ever seen at the club...by some margin. I think you’ve sunk your argument by citing that clown as better than Guendouzi, at least in the eyes of most on this forum.

I’ve already explained what I think Guendouzi brings, but you can’t see anything he offers. Fair enough, but tell me what Willock brings to the table, because I sure can’t see anything? As for Toreirra, I thought 18 months ago that we had a real star on our hands, but for whatever reason, those wheels have come off. He’s a shadow of his former self and I suspect he’ll be gone this summer.

I don’t see anyone offering more than Matteo in our centre mid.
[/quote]

I admire your support of him. What has he offerred our midfield that differs greatly from the rest of them? All I see is 1 goal and 4 assists over two seasons. That is a piss poor return from the next best thing as you claim him to be.
I'm sure he'll become a fine player, but not at Arsenal, nor in the premier league.
[/quote]




He is not a creative or attacking midfielder ffs - as I said previously in this thread, guendouzi is more of a gattuso type midfielder, albeit that he needs to add a bit more snarl and bite to his game. Do you remember how long it took petit to score his for goal for us, and that was playing in an outstanding team. A lot of the problem at AFC is that there isnt enough definded coaching (imo) about a players role and responsibility - guendouzi works hard on closing opposition players down all the time, but sometimes those runs take him out of the position where he should be. The kid has come from the french second division so I'm not sure why people think he should be the finished article already
Give the kid time, give him some proper coaching, and give him some support and make him feel valued, and let's see then how he develops - to me it doesnt seem that he is getting any of them

[mcdowell42]

According to @footmercato, Barcelona have offered Coutinho in exchange for Mattéo Guendouzi. #Arsenal https://t.co/bRvOHLcVjz

For several days Barcelona have been working on this hypothesis. They & #Arsenal are discussing in concrete terms an exchange between Guendouzi & Coutinho. So much so that the Brazil international, courted for many months by the Gunners, imagines himself in England. https://t.co/vWNPoY1aPN

[augie]

Let's have a serious whip around to get pep's coneman some transfer funds - I mean we have a guy that thinks mustafi is better than holding and who thinks that xhaka is better than torreira, and who thinks that pepe is better than saka, so what could go wrong ??

[g88ner]

Let's have a serious whip around to get pep's coneman some transfer funds - I mean we have a guy that thinks mustafi is better than holding and who thinks that xhaka is better than torreira, and who thinks that pepe is better than saka, so what could go wrong ??

I know I’m being precious but the coneman insult (and other insults) that is constantly thrown at Arteta really gets under my skin

Most people didn’t have Arteta down as first choice (In fact, he got zero votes on this forum in the new manager thread) but surely, now he’s here, we should dial down on the disrespect. It just feels unbecoming of a fanbase to turn on a manager that way so soon. He’s not ex-Sp*rs FFS

I agree with much of what you say about his team selections (although I think your views are too extreme given how average the options are ) but I really like the clarity of the message he’s sending out (what he expects of the players and the not-so-subtle challenge for the board to invest in better players). I think he’s a really talented communicator and seems really hungry for success so I’m interested to see how it plays out.

[Nos89]

Agree with this. A goal keeper who catches the ball. Who'd have thought we'd see that skill returning to the game? He has shown glimpses over the last 10 years of being a quality keeper, but given his performances I'd put him ahead of Leno, simply because he catches the ball and mixes it up with the throw or long kick rather than the tippy tappy around the penalty area.
On Guendouzi, he hasn't set out what he actually does on the pitch. Does he score? does he assist? is he a hard tackler? haven't seen any of that in the last 3 seasons. He may well be a good player when he can actually show exactly what he brings to the table. I only see a player that exemplifies everything that has been wrong with our midfield for the last few seasons, great technical ability, can't tackle and doesn't make assists. I remember Denilson having more to his game than I've seen from Guendouzi.

I happen to think that there's a quality player in Guendouzi, especially as he's only just 21 and I've been happy with him so far. I see a bloke with energy, good technical ability, who carries the ball forward, but also gets busy closing down oppostion attacks in midfield and in and around our area. in short, the things that a centre mid should do. I'd concede that he isn't particularly creative going forward, but he's young.

On a more interesting note, who exactly amongst our centre mid illuminati do you consider to be better than Guendouzi? Around 18 months ago, I'd have said Torreira, but I'm not so sure now, as I think he's another poor bastard that we've ruined. So, keen to hear your take, because even if he's shit (which I don't think), it's surely a case of who's the shittest of all the shit we've got in centre mid and in my book, there's plenty more shit than him.

Of our current midfielders Cellabos, Torreira, Xhaka (yes) and Willock are better players than guendouzi. Guendouzi has not established a style of play that makes you trust him in the midfield. Problem is our midfield needs better players than we currently have and Guendouzi does not fit the criteria. He may be talented but what does he do with that talent? He has never produced a display that makes me think he's the real deal. He's made 82 appearances for the club, 1 goal and 4 assists over 2 seasons. Not good enough, not worth the hassle, cash in on his potential and get a better midfielder.

We do indeed need better players than we’ve got, but the question was who is better than Guendouzi and you pretty much said every centre mid we’ve got, including Xhaka !!! Suffice to say that Xhaka is the single worst centre mid I’ve ever seen at the club...by some margin. I think you’ve sunk your argument by citing that clown as better than Guendouzi, at least in the eyes of most on this forum.

I’ve already explained what I think Guendouzi brings, but you can’t see anything he offers. Fair enough, but tell me what Willock brings to the table, because I sure can’t see anything? As for Toreirra, I thought 18 months ago that we had a real star on our hands, but for whatever reason, those wheels have come off. He’s a shadow of his former self and I suspect he’ll be gone this summer.

I don’t see anyone offering more than Matteo in our centre mid.

I admire your support of him. What has he offerred our midfield that differs greatly from the rest of them? All I see is 1 goal and 4 assists over two seasons. That is a piss poor return from the next best thing as you claim him to be.
I'm sure he'll become a fine player, but not at Arsenal, nor in the premier league.
[/quote]




He is not a creative or attacking midfielder ffs - as I said previously in this thread, guendouzi is more of a gattuso type midfielder, albeit that he needs to add a bit more snarl and bite to his game. Do you remember how long it took petit to score his for goal for us, and that was playing in an outstanding team. A lot of the problem at AFC is that there isnt enough definded coaching (imo) about a players role and responsibility - guendouzi works hard on closing opposition players down all the time, but sometimes those runs take him out of the position where he should be. The kid has come from the french second division so I'm not sure why people think he should be the finished article already
Give the kid time, give him some proper coaching, and give him some support and make him feel valued, and let's see then how he develops - to me it doesnt seem that he is getting any of them
[/quote]

He hasn't developed his game since he arrived, he is still playing like a kid in the French second division and has the attitude of a prima dona. Once he leaves and realises how big an opportunity he had, it will be too late. If he was as good as you make him out to be, he would have displaced Xhaka. He hasn't because he isn't good enough. You only think he's good because of how awful the rest of our midfield is, compared to where we need it to be, and unfortunately for matteo, he hasn't done anything to justify what his ego thinks he should get. I doubt Guendouzi would not have shown the discipline AMN showed in yesterdays game. Ill-discipline is down to the player not the coaching. In addition, has the team has desperately missed his presence? No, which really tells you all you need to know.

[augie]

Agree with this. A goal keeper who catches the ball. Who'd have thought we'd see that skill returning to the game? He has shown glimpses over the last 10 years of being a quality keeper, but given his performances I'd put him ahead of Leno, simply because he catches the ball and mixes it up with the throw or long kick rather than the tippy tappy around the penalty area.
On Guendouzi, he hasn't set out what he actually does on the pitch. Does he score? does he assist? is he a hard tackler? haven't seen any of that in the last 3 seasons. He may well be a good player when he can actually show exactly what he brings to the table. I only see a player that exemplifies everything that has been wrong with our midfield for the last few seasons, great technical ability, can't tackle and doesn't make assists. I remember Denilson having more to his game than I've seen from Guendouzi.

I happen to think that there's a quality player in Guendouzi, especially as he's only just 21 and I've been happy with him so far. I see a bloke with energy, good technical ability, who carries the ball forward, but also gets busy closing down oppostion attacks in midfield and in and around our area. in short, the things that a centre mid should do. I'd concede that he isn't particularly creative going forward, but he's young.

On a more interesting note, who exactly amongst our centre mid illuminati do you consider to be better than Guendouzi? Around 18 months ago, I'd have said Torreira, but I'm not so sure now, as I think he's another poor bastard that we've ruined. So, keen to hear your take, because even if he's shit (which I don't think), it's surely a case of who's the shittest of all the shit we've got in centre mid and in my book, there's plenty more shit than him.

Of our current midfielders Cellabos, Torreira, Xhaka (yes) and Willock are better players than guendouzi. Guendouzi has not established a style of play that makes you trust him in the midfield. Problem is our midfield needs better players than we currently have and Guendouzi does not fit the criteria. He may be talented but what does he do with that talent? He has never produced a display that makes me think he's the real deal. He's made 82 appearances for the club, 1 goal and 4 assists over 2 seasons. Not good enough, not worth the hassle, cash in on his potential and get a better midfielder.

We do indeed need better players than we’ve got, but the question was who is better than Guendouzi and you pretty much said every centre mid we’ve got, including Xhaka !!! Suffice to say that Xhaka is the single worst centre mid I’ve ever seen at the club...by some margin. I think you’ve sunk your argument by citing that clown as better than Guendouzi, at least in the eyes of most on this forum.

I’ve already explained what I think Guendouzi brings, but you can’t see anything he offers. Fair enough, but tell me what Willock brings to the table, because I sure can’t see anything? As for Toreirra, I thought 18 months ago that we had a real star on our hands, but for whatever reason, those wheels have come off. He’s a shadow of his former self and I suspect he’ll be gone this summer.

I don’t see anyone offering more than Matteo in our centre mid.

I admire your support of him. What has he offerred our midfield that differs greatly from the rest of them? All I see is 1 goal and 4 assists over two seasons. That is a piss poor return from the next best thing as you claim him to be.
I'm sure he'll become a fine player, but not at Arsenal, nor in the premier league.

He is not a creative or attacking midfielder ffs - as I said previously in this thread, guendouzi is more of a gattuso type midfielder, albeit that he needs to add a bit more snarl and bite to his game. Do you remember how long it took petit to score his for goal for us, and that was playing in an outstanding team. A lot of the problem at AFC is that there isnt enough definded coaching (imo) about a players role and responsibility - guendouzi works hard on closing opposition players down all the time, but sometimes those runs take him out of the position where he should be. The kid has come from the french second division so I'm not sure why people think he should be the finished article already
Give the kid time, give him some proper coaching, and give him some support and make him feel valued, and let's see then how he develops - to me it doesnt seem that he is getting any of them
[/quote]

He hasn't developed his game since he arrived, he is still playing like a kid in the French second division and has the attitude of a prima dona. Once he leaves and realises how big an opportunity he had, it will be too late. If he was as good as you make him out to be, he would have displaced Xhaka. He hasn't because he isn't good enough. You only think he's good because of how awful the rest of our midfield is, compared to where we need it to be, and unfortunately for matteo, he hasn't done anything to justify what his ego thinks he should get. I doubt Guendouzi would not have shown the discipline AMN showed in yesterdays game. Ill-discipline is down to the player not the coaching. In addition, has the team has desperately missed his presence? No, which really tells you all you need to know.
[/quote]



You may indeed have a point there, but all I know is that he is better than xhaka, and that is my starting point. If we have the funds to buy ndidi (for example)I would have no probs with guendouzi being out of the team - reality is that he is being left behind a guy that has continually showed to be absolute dogshite