Szczesny and Fabianksi taking the piss out of Gerry Peyton

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clockender1
Posts: 6257
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:53 pm

Re: Szczesny and Fabianksi taking the piss out of Gerry Peyton

Post by clockender1 »

goonersid wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:55 pm
Jock Gooner wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:33 pm
clockender1 wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:12 pm
DB10GOONER wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:03 am
Sorry mate but that is some of the worst revisionist shit I've read on here and I'm surprised at you posting it as you usually come across as being well informed and intelligent. :wink:

Whatever Wenger became there is simply no denying he was a superb manager for his first 10 years with us. No amount of hatred can change that fact.
I dunno, DB. the more i think about it and the more i read about him, the more i think fortune smiled on him - he did inherit the best back five in modern football, plus Parlour, Platt, Wrighty and Bergkamp, and he got to cherry pick the greatest ever generation of French players first.

the diet, stretching, the facilities etc i'll give you but he was only copying what they had been doing in Europe for years, it was a stranger to the English players but not the likes of Gullit and Vialli. and the other European players that started coming across here from 1995 onwards.

what we continue to read and are still reading that the ex-manager did no preparation, studied and taught no tactics, practiced no set pieces or shooting from range, spent only two sessions of 60 minutes on the training pitch each day, spent the breaks on holiday or commentating, and continually played players out of position and coached directness out of them.

i'm saying that what he arrived with in 1997 is what he left with. he didn't evolve or learn or even try to. he tried to replicate the squad he inherited and he did it once but then Chelsea & City moved ahead of us and we were never successful again.
A good summary of the circumstances. Fortune smiled on TOF indeed.
FFS as much as I now despise wenger, to suggest his success was down to good fortune is ridiculous!
Admittedly the core of the squad, the defence in particular, afforded him a rock solid platform to build from.
He did however changed the entire culture at the club from diet to training and the way we played football
And to get those players to buy into his philosophy is a measure of the manager he was then.
I do though still feel he underachieved due to his limited tactical ability, we should have won 4 or 5 titles in a row, and his failure to deliver a champions league was imo entirely down to this!
We had imo the best starting 11 and bench in europe with pv4, th14, pires gilberto, freddie, etc! and to not even come close? Says it all really!
if it wasn't based on good fortune, why did he not succeed in Europe ?

not only did he inherit the back five, he also had the greatest forward ever to grace English football pitches, and Bergkamp alone was the attraction for another World Class player to come in - Overmars. who DB10 is still very close to.

the back five and Parlour didn't need to be managed, and neither did our Dutch guys, the tactics and preparation was left to the players, which was great when we had the worlds best in our team from Holland and France, but as soon as Bergkamp retired, the wheels fell off the bus and people like Peyton, Akers etc were 'coaching' the players.

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goonersid
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Re: Szczesny and Fabianksi taking the piss out of Gerry Peyton

Post by goonersid »

clockender1 wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:11 pm
goonersid wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:55 pm
Jock Gooner wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:33 pm
clockender1 wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:12 pm
DB10GOONER wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:03 am
Sorry mate but that is some of the worst revisionist shit I've read on here and I'm surprised at you posting it as you usually come across as being well informed and intelligent. :wink:

Whatever Wenger became there is simply no denying he was a superb manager for his first 10 years with us. No amount of hatred can change that fact.
I dunno, DB. the more i think about it and the more i read about him, the more i think fortune smiled on him - he did inherit the best back five in modern football, plus Parlour, Platt, Wrighty and Bergkamp, and he got to cherry pick the greatest ever generation of French players first.

the diet, stretching, the facilities etc i'll give you but he was only copying what they had been doing in Europe for years, it was a stranger to the English players but not the likes of Gullit and Vialli. and the other European players that started coming across here from 1995 onwards.

what we continue to read and are still reading that the ex-manager did no preparation, studied and taught no tactics, practiced no set pieces or shooting from range, spent only two sessions of 60 minutes on the training pitch each day, spent the breaks on holiday or commentating, and continually played players out of position and coached directness out of them.

i'm saying that what he arrived with in 1997 is what he left with. he didn't evolve or learn or even try to. he tried to replicate the squad he inherited and he did it once but then Chelsea & City moved ahead of us and we were never successful again.
A good summary of the circumstances. Fortune smiled on TOF indeed.
FFS as much as I now despise wenger, to suggest his success was down to good fortune is ridiculous!
Admittedly the core of the squad, the defence in particular, afforded him a rock solid platform to build from.
He did however changed the entire culture at the club from diet to training and the way we played football
And to get those players to buy into his philosophy is a measure of the manager he was then.
I do though still feel he underachieved due to his limited tactical ability, we should have won 4 or 5 titles in a row, and his failure to deliver a champions league was imo entirely down to this!
We had imo the best starting 11 and bench in europe with pv4, th14, pires gilberto, freddie, etc! and to not even come close? Says it all really!
if it wasn't based on good fortune, why did he not succeed in Europe ?

not only did he inherit the back five, he also had the greatest forward ever to grace English football pitches, and Bergkamp alone was the attraction for another World Class player to come in - Overmars. who DB10 is still very close to.

the back five and Parlour didn't need to be managed, and neither did our Dutch guys, the tactics and preparation was left to the players, which was great when we had the worlds best in our team from Holland and France, but as soon as Bergkamp retired, the wheels fell off the bus and people like Peyton, Akers etc were 'coaching' the players.
I just realised I missed Bergkamp out!
But Overmars had long fucked off to the Barca whores before we had what was our strongest squad, and I’d take Pires ahead of him all day long!
As for lack of success in europe? As i said it was tactical inability on his part!
He could get away with his attacking football in the plge because we were streets ahead of most teams and managers we came up against week in and week out! Only Fergie could regularly thwart our style of play in those early days, because he was the best in the business, also when we played in the knockout stages of the clge. he was pitted against managers with pedigree and invariably came unstuck!
I suppose you could say im arguing against my own point, but im sitting in the bar of the hol inn express luton airport bored out of my fucking tree :D

Jock Gooner
Posts: 2788
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:53 am

Re: Szczesny and Fabianksi taking the piss out of Gerry Peyton

Post by Jock Gooner »

goonersid wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:55 pm
Jock Gooner wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:33 pm
clockender1 wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:12 pm
DB10GOONER wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:03 am
Sorry mate but that is some of the worst revisionist shit I've read on here and I'm surprised at you posting it as you usually come across as being well informed and intelligent. :wink:

Whatever Wenger became there is simply no denying he was a superb manager for his first 10 years with us. No amount of hatred can change that fact.
I dunno, DB. the more i think about it and the more i read about him, the more i think fortune smiled on him - he did inherit the best back five in modern football, plus Parlour, Platt, Wrighty and Bergkamp, and he got to cherry pick the greatest ever generation of French players first.

the diet, stretching, the facilities etc i'll give you but he was only copying what they had been doing in Europe for years, it was a stranger to the English players but not the likes of Gullit and Vialli. and the other European players that started coming across here from 1995 onwards.

what we continue to read and are still reading that the ex-manager did no preparation, studied and taught no tactics, practiced no set pieces or shooting from range, spent only two sessions of 60 minutes on the training pitch each day, spent the breaks on holiday or commentating, and continually played players out of position and coached directness out of them.

i'm saying that what he arrived with in 1997 is what he left with. he didn't evolve or learn or even try to. he tried to replicate the squad he inherited and he did it once but then Chelsea & City moved ahead of us and we were never successful again.
A good summary of the circumstances. Fortune smiled on TOF indeed.
FFS as much as I now despise wenger, to suggest his success was down to good fortune is ridiculous!
Admittedly the core of the squad, the defence in particular, afforded him a rock solid platform to build from.
He did however changed the entire culture at the club from diet to training and the way we played football
And to get those players to buy into his philosophy is a measure of the manager he was then.
I do though still feel he underachieved due to his limited tactical ability, we should have won 4 or 5 titles in a row, and his failure to deliver a champions league was imo entirely down to this!
We had imo the best starting 11 and bench in europe with pv4, th14, pires gilberto, freddie, etc! and to not even come close? Says it all really!

Not saying that his success was fully down to good fortune but the reality is that it played a healthy part and to think otherwise is naive. How do you explain going from being an apparent genius to a deluded eejit the way TOF did. You said it yourself when you mention the defence that he started with.....had that not been in place or if he had needed to rebuild the defence back in '96 it might all have been a different story. In fact I have little doubt that had this been the case he would have struggled with the task. Don't get me wrong I'm as happy as the next man that it went the way it did but at the same time I take a bit of a more cynical view of things. It all relates to his limited tactical ability as you put it.

AkneyGooner
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Location: London

Re: Szczesny and Fabianksi taking the piss out of Gerry Peyton

Post by AkneyGooner »

I would say this was Wenger own team, only the highlighted players were a legacy form before he took over, I think that toure and Ljungberg used to get the nod most games over Keown and parlour.

EDIT: that group of forwards :cry:

With all the money in the game I don't think any team in the PL has group of forwards like that.

He signed Lehmann, Fabregas, Van Persie and Reyes this year, so i would say he had not gone mad yet.

Jens Lehmann
Stuart Taylor
Rami Shaaban

Ashley Cole
Martin Keown
Pascal Cygan
Gaël Clichy
Sol Campbell
Kolo Touré
Lauren

Patrick Vieira (Captain)
Robert Pirès
Frederick Ljungberg
Ray Parlour
Edu
Gilberto Silva

José Antonio Reyes
Dennis Bergkamp
Sylvain Wiltord
Thierry Henry
Nwankwo Kanu
Jérémie Aliadière

robbo10
Posts: 3197
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:43 pm

Re: Szczesny and Fabianksi taking the piss out of Gerry Peyton

Post by robbo10 »

OneBardGooner wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:58 pm
augie wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:46 am
Herd wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:10 am
Gerry Payton was a very lucky man !
Wenger pushed Wilson out of the door when Seaman retired saying we don't need a goalkeeping coach and promptly hired Gerry Payton a person with Zero connections with Arsenal.
Wenger I'l guess was jealous of Wilsons high standing amongst all at Arsenal including the players ,Wilson still has that Aura of authority about him today ,I'm surprised he didn't manage himself ,he had the temperament ,and the brains.

Wenger gets rid or subverts anyone who is well thought of ,Steve Bould was another example ,no one could be well though of except for TOF himself .
I've never heard anyone say anything good about Payton but got a Job for 15 years .
.



He got me tickets for the champions league final and the fa cup semi v chavs, and two of the cardiff cup finals 8)
Well, clearly he was a better ticket tout than he was a goalkeeper coach. :? :D
So he went from Stubhub to Arsenal goalkeeping coach?

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DB10GOONER
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Re: Szczesny and Fabianksi taking the piss out of Gerry Peyton

Post by DB10GOONER »

Not sure I get why people think luck is something to beat Wenger over the head with.... as if he was the only manager to ever have some luck or good fortune.

EVERY SINGLE SUCCESSFUL MANAGER has had his share of luck and good fortune at some point during that success. Actually every manager end of has luck at some point. The difference is the top successful managers bring other skills on top of that luck. No manager ever has prolonged success based purely on luck. Rednose was extremely lucky when he inherited a great youth team full of winners. Cùnts yes but winners all the same. Does that make Rednose just a lucky manager?

Wenger was the best in the PL bar Rednose. And yep he had some luck and good fortune aid him. Unfortunately outpacing outscoring and having technically better players than Stoke Bolton Blackburn etc doesn't automatically translate into success in the CL where you come up against actual tactically astute managers.

While for several seasons we were the best team in the PL we never had the tactical acumen to win the CL.

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