Ramsey's emotional farewell

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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Herd
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Re: Ramsey's emotional farewell

Postby Herd » Tue May 07, 2019 9:29 pm

I don't know the ins and outs of it,I no longer have any inside people in the club at all .
In law an offer can be withdrawn at any time before acceptance unless it has a time for reply.
They could and should have tied him down before the start of the new season but probably didn't because of the change in manager ,who knows .
He was pretty pissed off when the offer was removed that's for sure .
Can't blame him for doing the best he could financially .
Wasn't a legend and I was as frustrated as anyone with the flicks n tricks but he had value and we have missed out on any resell .
More bad management from the bean counters that run Arsenal Sporting franchise !

Retro Gunner
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Re: Ramsey's emotional farewell

Postby Retro Gunner » Tue May 07, 2019 10:46 pm

:lol: Im looking for a cheap propeller to get to dukin Baku :banghead: if we get there? I will let you know if I have any luck

I cant disagree with any of that and understand your concerns the last 4 games especially were poor and like you said previously a good manager should have been able to have got more points with that run in at the business end of the season than he squeezed out of our lot , one Napoli type away performance and top 4 would have been alive until the last game of the season
[/quote]


:lol: :lol:
Gotta tell you Herbert, top marks to you and anyone else that makes it to Baku if we get there. Fingers crossed mate.

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Re: Ramsey's emotional farewell

Postby Retro Gunner » Tue May 07, 2019 11:14 pm

Duck me mate I thought it would be a while till we heard from you now that my lord and master has gone but I see you have doubts about Emery all ready

Get the engines started the banners ready and some bulbs for the light show :lol:
:lol: :lol:
That genuinely made me laugh. Yep, I do have doubts about Emery and I think justifiably so, but I also realise that he deserves time. He needs the whole of next season, although I’m sure that we’ll all be able to make a proper judgement by Christmas. Despite a fucking nightmare owner and an abysmal squad, Dick has to take responsibility, after a full season, for decisions made and not made.

Regarding Ramsey, it’s ultimately about opinions. All the reasons why I’ve never rated him have been listed by me and others in this thread. Had he been leaving the Club 15 years ago, the reaction on here would have been “Aaron who ?”......that many believe that we’re losing a world beater is more a reflection of our current state, than it is on a very average footballer. As I’ve said before, let’s see how he gets on at Juve, where it’s all in his favour.

Augie is bang on about the contract situation. He played hard ball and lost. For once the Club showed some balls and sent a message that a player can’t dictate to them, as they had done under Wenger and his endless contract cock ups.

Others have used the word “legend” :roll: Here’s a few names from my lifetime of supporting the Club : Frank McLintock, George Armstrong, Charlie George, Liam Brady, David O’Leary, Tony Adams (probably all of GG’s back four in fact), Ian Wright, Dennis Bergkamp, Patrick Vieira, Thierry Henry.
Think about those names and then think about Aaron Ramsey.

I’m sure that Augie, DB and myself wish the bloke well and good luck in Turin, but I’m crying no tears over his leaving and let’s keep a sense of proportion about his ability. Some won’t agree and as I’ve said, it’s all about opinions and his fans are welcome to theirs.





NB. Augie’s, DB’s and my opinion is the right one. :lol: :wink:

Please don't credit the club with showing balls...... one of our more saleable assets is walking away for shit all. Regardless of anyones opinions on him hes worth at least £40m in todays market. As already said he played hardball because the bar was already set with the ridiculous contract handed to Ozil.

As someone else has mentioned if he'd scored those cup final goals in a different era he'd be remembered much more fondly than he is by some. I just think he deserved a bit of respect thats all.

To be honest GTG, that's not really a fair reflection of the situation. It was the old management regime of the Old Fraud and Slippery Ivan who negligently and unforgiveably, allowed so many players contracts to get to the final year, which passed all power to the player. Having been burned numerous times, they then let Ramsey's contract run down. Now that wouldn't have bothered Wenger one bit, because had he still been stinking the place out, he'd have put Ramsey (one of his loyal favourites) on an Ozil style contract without a second thought and I'm sure that the player and his agent were banking on that.

Obviously, the situation changed once the regime changed. Ramsey was offered 200 k a week during the Summer (or so I believe) and stalled on signing....200 k per week for Ramsey !! The Club could no way allow another Wengeresque lunatic decision like the Ozil one, so quite rightly told him that the very generous (to say the least) offer, was their final one. Ramsey didn't accept it and let things drag into the Autumn, obviously hoping the Club would fold.

Bear in mind that once the Summer had passed, the Club knew that couldn't get any money for him, so their only choice was to increase the offer or tell him they were withdrawing it and he could fuck off. Thankfully, they took the latter option and that's the balls I'm crediting them for showing. Having screwed up with Ozil, a strong message needed to be sent to playing staff. It wasn't their decision that cost us a transfer fee, that was all thanks to Wenger's customary mismanagement in allowing the contract to run down.

You and others are fully entitled to regret his leaving us. As I said previously on this thread, it's all about opinions. Personally. I'll remember 10 years of frustration, a lot more than 2 Cup Final goals, but that's just me. I do, however, wish him well in Turin. Let's see how it goes. 8)

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augie
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Re: Ramsey's emotional farewell

Postby augie » Wed May 08, 2019 7:55 am

I don't know the ins and outs of it,I no longer have any inside people in the club at all .
In law an offer can be withdrawn at any time before acceptance unless it has a time for reply.
They could and should have tied him down before the start of the new season but probably didn't because of the change in manager ,who knows .
He was pretty pissed off when the offer was removed that's for sure .
Can't blame him for doing the best he could financially .
Wasn't a legend and I was as frustrated as anyone with the flicks n tricks but he had value and we have missed out on any resell .
More bad management from the bean counters that run Arsenal Sporting franchise !



£200k per week has long been stated (here and in the media) that was the deal offered to ramsey that he didn't sign - I would suggest that had he signed that last summer, there would be thousands of Gooners outraged that the club sanctioned that deal for him. Like I said the other day, fans are very selective when it comes to memories, and it is only since he started playing well after Christmas that there has been an outcry over his departure - I don't remember too many fans going mad last august when the deal was withdrawn, cos at the time he had done nothing in the previous few years to suggest that he deserved better. His performances improved when he was looking for a new employer

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Re: Ramsey's emotional farewell

Postby LeftfootlegendGooner » Wed May 08, 2019 9:20 am

This piece on sky sports does point out that we missed Ramsey terribly when Leicester won the league with our form nosediving and on his return our form picked up again drastically.

No one can argue that since he got injured this season our form dipped alarmingly.

No one is calling him messi and at times I've moaned about him but in this team he will be missed, also had he been played more earlier in the season I reckon top 4 would be sewn up.


https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... -be-missed

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Herd
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Re: Ramsey's emotional farewell

Postby Herd » Wed May 08, 2019 9:49 am

Augie I'm not calling him Pele but he had re-sell value of 30 to 40 mill . So we either should have sold him or signed him up and then sold. Players know they can take some of the resell for themselves ,it's part of modern football now. Similar story I heard he asked for 250 but that's only hearsay.

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Re: Ramsey's emotional farewell

Postby Retro Gunner » Wed May 08, 2019 11:18 am

Augie I'm not calling him Pele but he had re-sell value of 30 to 40 mill . So we either should have sold him or signed him up and then sold. Players know they can take some of the resell for themselves ,it's part of modern football now. Similar story I heard he asked for 250 but that's only hearsay.

The trouble was Herd, is that the damage was already done. When the new regime took over, he was into the final year of his contract and that removed leverage from the Club. Ramsey felt no pressure to sign the 200 k deal, because the longer he held out, he would get either a bigger deal from the Club, or a huge deal by leaving on a free....which is what happened. Equally, there was no incentive for prospective buyers to splash 30 or 40 million on a bloke that would be free in under 12 months time.

The Club had no leverage and that is all thanks to Wenger and Ivan for allowing yet another contract to run down. The only choice the Club had, come last Summer, was to increase the already over-generous 200 k, or let him walk. In my opinion, left with such a crap choice, they made the best available decision.

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augie
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Re: Ramsey's emotional farewell

Postby augie » Wed May 08, 2019 11:30 am

Augie I'm not calling him Pele but he had re-sell value of 30 to 40 mill . So we either should have sold him or signed him up and then sold. Players know they can take some of the resell for themselves ,it's part of modern football now. Similar story I heard he asked for 250 but that's only hearsay.


Agree we have pissed away money by not selling him earlier. The problem with the theory of getting him to sign a new contract and then selling him, is that most of our players know they wont get the same money elsewhere and wont move. We are then left with another weight around our neck as even more of our limited budget is tied up in a player that isn't good enough

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Re: Ramsey's emotional farewell

Postby Retro Gunner » Wed May 08, 2019 4:23 pm

Augie I'm not calling him Pele but he had re-sell value of 30 to 40 mill . So we either should have sold him or signed him up and then sold. Players know they can take some of the resell for themselves ,it's part of modern football now. Similar story I heard he asked for 250 but that's only hearsay.


Agree we have pissed away money by not selling him earlier. The problem with the theory of getting him to sign a new contract and then selling him, is that most of our players know they wont get the same money elsewhere and wont move. We are then left with another weight around our neck as even more of our limited budget is tied up in a player that isn't good enough


This is true, but it's getting too far into it. It was a very uncomplicated situation. He would never have signed a new contract that wasn't an Ozil style deal. Had we offered that type of deal, he'd have signed it and happily stayed on 300 k per week, or whatever. Then, as you say, we'd never have been able to sell him and he wouldn't have wanted to leave anyway. It would have been a replica of the Ozil fiasco.

The fucking idiot Wenger, painted the Club into the usual contract corner and the options were simple....give him a ridiculous mega deal, or let him walk. As of last Summer, selling him was an option that no longer existed. I don't support much that this Club does anymore, but they got this right.

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Re: Ramsey's emotional farewell

Postby Jock Gooner » Wed May 08, 2019 4:58 pm

Augie I'm not calling him Pele but he had re-sell value of 30 to 40 mill . So we either should have sold him or signed him up and then sold. Players know they can take some of the resell for themselves ,it's part of modern football now. Similar story I heard he asked for 250 but that's only hearsay.


Agree we have pissed away money by not selling him earlier. The problem with the theory of getting him to sign a new contract and then selling him, is that most of our players know they wont get the same money elsewhere and wont move. We are then left with another weight around our neck as even more of our limited budget is tied up in a player that isn't good enough


This is true, but it's getting too far into it. It was a very uncomplicated situation. He would never have signed a new contract that wasn't an Ozil style deal. Had we offered that type of deal, he'd have signed it and happily stayed on 300 k per week, or whatever. Then, as you say, we'd never have been able to sell him and he wouldn't have wanted to leave anyway. It would have been a replica of the Ozil fiasco.

The fucking idiot Wenger, painted the Club into the usual contract corner and the options were simple....give him a ridiculous mega deal, or let him walk. As of last Summer, selling him was an option that no longer existed. I don't support much that this Club does anymore, but they got this right.

Agreed, but we could have salvaged something from the situation. When he didn't sign the contract in the summer he should have been put up for sale immediately if only to get a reduced fee in the region of say £25 - 30M. He should have been called out at that time - sign the fucking thing or go and if you decide to see out your contract here then there's the bench, have a nice season. He should have been nowhere near the first team. That money could potentially have got us another decent player as part of Dick's plan :? going forward.

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Re: Ramsey's emotional farewell

Postby Retro Gunner » Wed May 08, 2019 5:13 pm

Augie I'm not calling him Pele but he had re-sell value of 30 to 40 mill . So we either should have sold him or signed him up and then sold. Players know they can take some of the resell for themselves ,it's part of modern football now. Similar story I heard he asked for 250 but that's only hearsay.


Agree we have pissed away money by not selling him earlier. The problem with the theory of getting him to sign a new contract and then selling him, is that most of our players know they wont get the same money elsewhere and wont move. We are then left with another weight around our neck as even more of our limited budget is tied up in a player that isn't good enough


This is true, but it's getting too far into it. It was a very uncomplicated situation. He would never have signed a new contract that wasn't an Ozil style deal. Had we offered that type of deal, he'd have signed it and happily stayed on 300 k per week, or whatever. Then, as you say, we'd never have been able to sell him and he wouldn't have wanted to leave anyway. It would have been a replica of the Ozil fiasco.

The fucking idiot Wenger, painted the Club into the usual contract corner and the options were simple....give him a ridiculous mega deal, or let him walk. As of last Summer, selling him was an option that no longer existed. I don't support much that this Club does anymore, but they got this right.

Agreed, but we could have salvaged something from the situation. When he didn't sign the contract in the summer he should have been put up for sale immediately if only to get a reduced fee in the region of say £25 - 30M. He should have been called out at that time - sign the fucking thing or go and if you decide to see out your contract here then there's the bench, have a nice season. He should have been nowhere near the first team. That money could potentially have got us another decent player as part of Dick's plan :? going forward.

Yes, that was an option I guess, to get whatever we could for him, regardless of how much that was and to tell him that if he didn't sign the contract, or agree to go to any interested party, then he would be benched for a year. Believe it or not, I was saying exactly that in August of last year to a mate. I suspect Jock, that the new management team hoped they could keep him (I wasn't hoping for that ! :D ), but when it was too late to sell him for whatever could be salvaged, realised that it was an Ozil deal, or fuck him off. Their decision, while not good for the coffers, should at least have sent the playing staff a firm message. Probably deluding myself there tbh. :roll:

When all said and done, it's another fucking mess to thank Il Duce for ! :banghead:

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Re: Ramsey's emotional farewell

Postby TeeCee » Thu May 09, 2019 7:28 am

My opinion is....decent player, ultimately not worth the money he wanted. I lost respect for him part way through his contract negotiations when he was interviewed by SlySports and they asked him what the issue was with his contract, he said 'I don't know, my agent is dealing with it'. If you're the fucking client and you don't know what your agent is asking for then you are a MUG!! or you are lying. Rambo got greedy, no doubt egged on by his equally greedy agent who probably said that Arsenal would be desperate for him to sign.

Losing Rambo did affect us badly in the end, this isn't because he is world class, or because he gave 1000%, it's just because he is head and shoulders the best midfielder we had, so that really shows us where we are!! They could have agreed on a £225k or £250k a week contract and then tried to sell but what if we couldn't sell him because of his high wages?? We've then shafted ourselves and not learnt from the Ozil fiasco. I think the club made the right decision in the end but should have sold him sooner!!

Arsenal had to make a stand with regards to over paying players who aren't deserving (after Wenger's pathetic, give them whatever they want to stay) and unfortunately for Rambo, he was the first.

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Re: Ramsey's emotional farewell

Postby DB10GOONER » Thu May 09, 2019 4:44 pm

My opinion is....decent player, ultimately not worth the money he wanted. I lost respect for him part way through his contract negotiations when he was interviewed by SlySports and they asked him what the issue was with his contract, he said 'I don't know, my agent is dealing with it'. If you're the fucking client and you don't know what your agent is asking for then you are a MUG!! or you are lying. Rambo got greedy, no doubt egged on by his equally greedy agent who probably said that Arsenal would be desperate for him to sign.

Losing Rambo did affect us badly in the end, this isn't because he is world class, or because he gave 1000%, it's just because he is head and shoulders the best midfielder we had, so that really shows us where we are!! They could have agreed on a £225k or £250k a week contract and then tried to sell but what if we couldn't sell him because of his high wages?? We've then shafted ourselves and not learnt from the Ozil fiasco. I think the club made the right decision in the end but should have sold him sooner!!

Arsenal had to make a stand with regards to over paying players who aren't deserving (after Wenger's pathetic, give them whatever they want to stay) and unfortunately for Rambo, he was the first.
I don't agree he is our best midfielder. For me he is like Ozil in a way. He has talent but is too inconsistent. And with Ramsey that inconsistency meant so much needlessly and cheaply lost posession whereas when Ozil is playing poorly he at least can retain posession..... mostly.... :wink:

As much as I don't rate Rambo I would have liked him to go out on a high playing in and winning the EL - as an 89th minute sub. :wink:

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Re: Ramsey's emotional farewell

Postby Retro Gunner » Fri May 10, 2019 9:01 am

My opinion is....decent player, ultimately not worth the money he wanted. I lost respect for him part way through his contract negotiations when he was interviewed by SlySports and they asked him what the issue was with his contract, he said 'I don't know, my agent is dealing with it'. If you're the fucking client and you don't know what your agent is asking for then you are a MUG!! or you are lying. Rambo got greedy, no doubt egged on by his equally greedy agent who probably said that Arsenal would be desperate for him to sign.

Losing Rambo did affect us badly in the end, this isn't because he is world class, or because he gave 1000%, it's just because he is head and shoulders the best midfielder we had, so that really shows us where we are!! They could have agreed on a £225k or £250k a week contract and then tried to sell but what if we couldn't sell him because of his high wages?? We've then shafted ourselves and not learnt from the Ozil fiasco. I think the club made the right decision in the end but should have sold him sooner!!

Arsenal had to make a stand with regards to over paying players who aren't deserving (after Wenger's pathetic, give them whatever they want to stay) and unfortunately for Rambo, he was the first.
I don't agree he is our best midfielder. For me he is like Ozil in a way. He has talent but is too inconsistent. And with Ramsey that inconsistency meant so much needlessly and cheaply lost posession whereas when Ozil is playing poorly he at least can retain posession..... mostly.... :wink:

As much as I don't rate Rambo I would have liked him to go out on a high playing in and winning the EL - as an 89th minute sub. :wink:

I'm glad I can always rely on you for support :D .

Didn't read too many people on here bemoaning no Ramsey in the side, on the Valencia thread last night. Aaron who....? :lol:

I keep saying it, but let's see how it turns out at Juve. 8)

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Re: Ramsey's emotional farewell

Postby Bradywasking » Fri May 10, 2019 9:17 am

He is gone, contract was on the table and he chose , for his own reasons, not to sign it. I wish him well but aint shedding tears over him. Brilliant in 13/14 , frustrating for much of the rest of the time. If you were to ask what he would have brought to the party last night what would be your answer.? Mine is that the speed of the attack would have been greatly reduced.


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