AWAY to the Victims SAT AUGUST 24th 17:30pm

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
clockender1
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Re: AWAY to the Victims SAT AUGUST 24th 17:30pm

Postby clockender1 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:04 pm

its amazing when you step away from being a supporter of The Arsenal sometimes to read what outsiders say about us.

the majority of press reports said this weekend that that scoreline flattered the Mickeys and more so, that we had the better chances in the first half.

my Dad said MOTD pretty much took the same view - we were punished for two mistakes and Dick showed much improvement from last years debacle. the mousers took their chances and we didn't...

Dicks comments took that stance too.

Clash
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Re: AWAY to the Victims SAT AUGUST 24th 17:30pm

Postby Clash » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:02 pm

its amazing when you step away from being a supporter of The Arsenal sometimes to read what outsiders say about us.

the majority of press reports said this weekend that that scoreline flattered the Mickeys and more so, that we had the better chances in the first half.

my Dad said MOTD pretty much took the same view - we were punished for two mistakes and Dick showed much improvement from last years debacle. the mousers took their chances and we didn't...

Dicks comments took that stance too.
Yeah and most outsiders think all Wenger was guilty of, if anything, was staying a couple of years too long :roll: It's sometimes good to hear other fans perspectives but they don't see us the same way we do.

The goals we conceded were poor and self-inflicted but our two first half chances on Saturday also came from Liverpool mistakes. We created very little for a team playing such a risky formation.

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northbank123
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Re: AWAY to the Victims SAT AUGUST 24th 17:30pm

Postby northbank123 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:04 pm

Wasn't great, was it?

It wasn't quite the battering of the last few seasons there - I thought that we looked fairly good defensively considering that (like it or not) they are an excellent side. It was a shame that we didn't take advantage of one of our first half chances, and that we conceded from a corner, followed by two Luiz disasters. That said, even if we had gone in 1-0 up at half-time does anybody truly believe that we would have got a point (never mind all 3)? The sad reality is that we are light years behind them.

One thing which I noticed was how poor we were at counter-attacking. Time and time again we won the ball back from them in midfield, but the likes of Xhaka and (on Saturday) Ceballos were so fucking slow in turning defence into attack. They are good but far from invincible, and when they have full-backs bombing forward then they are vulnerable to the counter-attack. van Dijk is class but this idea that nobody can dribble past him is nonsense - if he doesn't fancy his chances he will just back off and back off.

This game and City away were the two we had no realistic hope of getting anything from this year and it wasn't the unabashed battering that we have had in the past, but in the grand scheme of things it is a very modest improvement and Liverpool weren't particularly troubled.

Massive game Sunday now.

General
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Re: AWAY to the Victims SAT AUGUST 24th 17:30pm

Postby General » Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:40 pm

Never mind the gap in quality, physically Scousers were on a different level to us and we couldn’t cope with their crazy intensity. It didn’t help that Dick moulded them into a ridiculous shape that sapped their energy. Recall Liverpool knocking it around on 80mins with ease without an Arsenal player getting close. Pace/power is king in this league and we had options on the bench to make this a more difficult contest for Pool. A repeat of this narrow formation against City and we would get absolutely battered.

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augie
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Re: AWAY to the Victims SAT AUGUST 24th 17:30pm

Postby augie » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:03 pm

Wasn't great, was it?

It wasn't quite the battering of the last few seasons there - I thought that we looked fairly good defensively considering that (like it or not) they are an excellent side. It was a shame that we didn't take advantage of one of our first half chances, and that we conceded from a corner, followed by two Luiz disasters. That said, even if we had gone in 1-0 up at half-time does anybody truly believe that we would have got a point (never mind all 3)? The sad reality is that we are light years behind them.

One thing which I noticed was how poor we were at counter-attacking. Time and time again we won the ball back from them in midfield, but the likes of Xhaka and (on Saturday) Ceballos were so fucking slow in turning defence into attack. They are good but far from invincible, and when they have full-backs bombing forward then they are vulnerable to the counter-attack. van Dijk is class but this idea that nobody can dribble past him is nonsense - if he doesn't fancy his chances he will just back off and back off.

This game and City away were the two we had no realistic hope of getting anything from this year and it wasn't the unabashed battering that we have had in the past, but in the grand scheme of things it is a very modest improvement and Liverpool weren't particularly troubled.

Massive game Sunday now.




It's funny cos in the last 24 hours I am reading and hearing (aftv for starters) Gooners slating guendouzi's performance Saturday, and I thought that not alone was he our best midfielder Saturday, but that he actually played well too 8) Apart from on here, xhaka seems to have come out unscathed in the various assessments, and that leads me to ask what the fcuk were these people looking at ???

A11M11
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Re: AWAY to the Victims SAT AUGUST 24th 17:30pm

Postby A11M11 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:14 pm

Preconception is hard to beat , some people make their minds up before they see what actually happens,

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Herd
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Re: AWAY to the Victims SAT AUGUST 24th 17:30pm

Postby Herd » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:53 am

I've often thought I watch different games than reporters such is their inability to go against pre-conceived scenarios.
I remember a Sunday paper had celebrities write the match report and Melvyn Bragg wrote ours.
It was a fantastic piece and for once accurately summed up the match day experience. He used to sit in block C with his son . Havent seen him for years though.
The reality on Saturday is that Liverpool couldn't believe their luck when we set up as we did and although it took them a while to suss it out once they did they came on top. The lack of discipline from Luiz was criminal. And once goal 2 came up we should have had a plan B ..... but we didn't have one.
That's just the way it is,some things will never change.

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DB10GOONER
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Re: AWAY to the Victims SAT AUGUST 24th 17:30pm

Postby DB10GOONER » Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:57 am

Not going to bother my hole beating the Ozil drum here because I think he is too far past his best to now consistently effectively fill the role but we create next to nothing from midfield and literally have no one that can link and create an attack in there. We need at least a decent - if not top class - number 10.

I do believe the scoreline flattered the victims. With better finishing we could have won that game 3-4.

That's not to say we were not utter shit for most of it - we were - but that victims midfield and defence is so full of holes and mistakes they would be fucked if one or (please God) two of that front three got a long term injury. Contrary to the populist media JCL fan myth of Stupid Teeth being a genius, they play football like a school team. It's a poor indictment of the PL that such a one dimensional team is the second best team in the league - and by a long way too.... :|

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Re: AWAY to the Victims SAT AUGUST 24th 17:30pm

Postby Bradywasking » Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:22 pm

Word on the atmosphere at Anfield, don't think the Emirates is the only place that lacks atmosphere..saw a quote on Sunday that 'Tottenham's shiney new ground is soulless ' Apart from pre match and after the goals there was fuck all atmosphere at Anfield.

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Re: AWAY to the Victims SAT AUGUST 24th 17:30pm

Postby DB10GOONER » Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:50 am

Word on the atmosphere at Anfield, don't think the Emirates is the only place that lacks atmosphere..saw a quote on Sunday that 'Tottenham's shiney new ground is soulless ' Apart from pre match and after the goals there was fuck all atmosphere at Anfield.
That Anfield atmosphere thing has always been a bit of a myth. Sure there are occasions when the place is absolutely rocking but that can be said about any ground. Theres always been just as many games there where you could hear a pin drop.

The Highbury Library thing was also a bit of a myth. Yep it could be quiet as hell in there but it could also be a couldron of noise - just like most grounds.

In general though most grounds are worse for atmosphere with the influx of corporates and JCL cùnts that would rather play with their iPad than chant or sing. :censored:

But agreed that on Saturday it was loud a couple of times but fuck all atmosphere for most of it.

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Re: AWAY to the Victims SAT AUGUST 24th 17:30pm

Postby Clash » Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:21 am

Word on the atmosphere at Anfield, don't think the Emirates is the only place that lacks atmosphere..saw a quote on Sunday that 'Tottenham's shiney new ground is soulless ' Apart from pre match and after the goals there was fuck all atmosphere at Anfield.
That Anfield atmosphere thing has always been a bit of a myth. Sure there are occasions when the place is absolutely rocking but that can be said about any ground. Theres always been just as many games there where you could hear a pin drop.

The Highbury Library thing was also a bit of a myth. Yep it could be quiet as hell in there but it could also be a couldron of noise - just like most grounds.

In general though most grounds are worse for atmosphere with the influx of corporates and JCL cùnts that would rather play with their iPad than chant or sing. :censored:

But agreed that on Saturday it was loud a couple of times but fuck all atmosphere for most of it.
I agree with all of that.

I think Anfield is a very atmospheric ground because of the way the cavernous type stands trap the noise. And obviously the Kop was massive in its heyday so once a ground gets a reputation it tends to stick regardless of whether its still true.

Personally for Highbury, I would have liked to have seen what a roof at the clock end to mirror the north bank could have done. Maybe the corners could have been covered more too. But even without that, we could produce a superb atmosphere there.

And even in the all-seater days most of us here will have experienced some deafening noise at Highbury. I always say the Highbury Library tag stuck simply because it rhymed. Not because our crowd was quieter than everyone else.

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OneBardGooner
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Re: AWAY to the Victims SAT AUGUST 24th 17:30pm

Postby OneBardGooner » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:32 pm

Highbury used to FUCKIN'"ROCK" Especially when we were playing either scum or manure - Fuckin' Deafening...I remember when Wrighty scored his 179th goal


Image

Pandemonium! 8)

What days those were <sigh> :? :barscarf: :barscarf: :barscarf:

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StuartL
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Re: AWAY to the Victims SAT AUGUST 24th 17:30pm

Postby StuartL » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:59 pm

Word on the atmosphere at Anfield, don't think the Emirates is the only place that lacks atmosphere..saw a quote on Sunday that 'Tottenham's shiney new ground is soulless ' Apart from pre match and after the goals there was fuck all atmosphere at Anfield.
That Anfield atmosphere thing has always been a bit of a myth. Sure there are occasions when the place is absolutely rocking but that can be said about any ground. Theres always been just as many games there where you could hear a pin drop.

The Highbury Library thing was also a bit of a myth. Yep it could be quiet as hell in there but it could also be a couldron of noise - just like most grounds.

In general though most grounds are worse for atmosphere with the influx of corporates and JCL cùnts that would rather play with their iPad than chant or sing. :censored:

But agreed that on Saturday it was loud a couple of times but fuck all atmosphere for most of it.
I agree with all of that.

I think Anfield is a very atmospheric ground because of the way the cavernous type stands trap the noise. And obviously the Kop was massive in its heyday so once a ground gets a reputation it tends to stick regardless of whether its still true.

Personally for Highbury, I would have liked to have seen what a roof at the clock end to mirror the north bank could have done. Maybe the corners could have been covered more too. But even without that, we could produce a superb atmosphere there.

And even in the all-seater days most of us here will have experienced some deafening noise at Highbury. I always say the Highbury Library tag stuck simply because it rhymed. Not because our crowd was quieter than everyone else.
Indeedy do - My first Anfield trip was 88 cup match which we drew 1-1, Rocky’s Belter, approx 8,000 Gooners in the crowd.
Their fans were quiet as anything as we outplayed them and had a late winner chalked off for a nonexistent foul on the keeper.

Give our lot something to cheer loud and proud about and they will respond.
Personally I love a sense of injustice........probably born out of “you can stick you fucking 2 points up your arse” to get my vocal levels raised.

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OneBardGooner
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Re: AWAY to the Victims SAT AUGUST 24th 17:30pm

Postby OneBardGooner » Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:46 pm





You cannot seriously be giving the players a free pass for yesterday ?? :shock: :shock: :shock: Dick's tactics were a disgrace yesterday, but there is no excuse for a lack of guts, of effort, and a lack of basic football skills (tackling and passing to a team-mate), plus (and I dont want to be harsh here) but if pepe scores in the first half, it could have been a different game
Where did I say I give them 'a free pass'?????

However, because of the formation and tactics selected, practiced throughout the week and the team selection - they can only do what they are instructed to do - Yes there were some major mistakes: Luiz shirt pull for the pen. Ceballos giving the ball away - Auba's miss, Pepe's miss (*)... BUt it was his leadership that ultimately failed us and I am a supporter of Emery, but he did get it wrong - He started the wrong players and he failed to act mid-game to put things right.

(*) It did take the genius aka Denis Bergkamp a while before he broke his duck, same with TH14 - But the way that Pepe was leaving one of the best back lines for dust IS Very Encouraging.

I see Pepe scoring against the Scum next week-end. :barscarf: :barscarf: :barscarf:




In practically every part of your post, but you summed it up in the last sentence of your original post

Again, I can see nowhere in my posts where I have said the players are not to blame nor do they not bear some of the blame, what I "Do" say is that Emery IS to blame, it begins with him and ends with him because it was he who made the final decision on all things...

But as usual to seem to interpret and read into things what it is you want to see Augie.

Hey ho! Carry on.



I thought that we were having a reasonable discussion so settle down and don't get your knickers in a knot

What you said is "if anyone is to blame, it is unai emery" - you didn't say if there is any blame it is on dick and the players, so surely you can accept that it is a reasonable assumption to believe that you were putting 100% of blame on dick ?
Talking of knickers in a twist yours spend most of their time in such a state if anyone dare disagree with what you say - which is often - which is why I try and getting involved and so avoid your posts.

No. not a reasonable assumption that I was putting 100% blame on Unai Emery at all, having watched the short highlights of the game on MOTD and seen 2 monumental errors by two separate players Luiz for the pen also Ceballos' passing it across the box which almost lead to a goal, then obviously players who must shoulder a share of the responsibility for what they did or did not do.

However it was Unai Emery who coached the players in preparation for the game.
It was Unai Emery who decided on the formation and game plan.
It was Unai emery who selected what players would be on the pitch.

He has the first and last say ergo I blame him first and foremost for the way the way we played/did not play.
For the game not having a better outcome.

As I said, you always seem to interpret what others say in a way that best suits what you think, you take things out of context and have a very judgmental attitude and way of either commenting on something someone has said or on them and it is you who starts to get their 'knickers in a twist'.


I am a fan of his, so far. So when he made such poor decisions of tactics/formation/team selection and very late substitutions then yes I blame him. Something I have not previously done as I think he is a good Head Coach


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