General wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:57 pm
Retro Gunner wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:53 am
Herd wrote: ↑
Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:23 am
Theres no doubt Wenger left us in the shit but to suggest that we are a work in progress is totally wrong because there is no progress and few signs of work.
The Club needed root and branch treatment in the close season but didn't manage it and now the whole tree is in danger of dying .
If you could see signs of a seed planted the fans would go with it and have patience ,If we could see him trying variations to get a better way we could see it out but the more I see of us we are becoming entrenched in a style of play that hasn't worked and will never work in the premiership .
His stubborn refusal to address the defensive issues or adapt makes me realise that he adds nothing to the club and should go now because things cannot get worse even if Goonersaurus took over as temporary manager . If anything our defense is worse now because of his insistence to play out from the back even when a trap is set .
Any manager that cannot see how shit Xhaka is doesn't deserve to manage our once great club ,I think even Ian Holloway could do better than Emery even if Emerys English is better .
We may have overindulged Wenger but we Owe Emery nothing ,there's no point in wasting another season or even another second with him ,
This season was a golden opportunity to place ourselves above our peers and we are blowing it in Wengeresque fashion !
This is bang on. Exactly as I see it. The post about being a “work in progress” is from General, who I know and who’s opinion I respect. However G, you’ve got this one wrong. You were as fervently anti Wenger as anyone, but I can’t help wondering whether the judgement of you and others, concerning Emery, is clouded by a desperation to see Wenger’s successor succeed.
Wenger’s gone and despite his cultists hoping Dick fails, the rest of us must move on. Forget the French clown, he’s gone and judge the new manager on his own merits. I’m afraid he’s coming up well short.
As Herd says, we all know he inherited a pile of crap and I didn’t expect a league position any higher than we achieved last season (although our end of season collapse was inexcusable) nor would I have expected a higher position than we’re currently in, but there’s much more too it than that.
The very results we’ve had, I could well have tolerated, if I could see a plan, a structure and a sense of progression that gave me optimism for the future. I see none of that. I see stubbornness, confusion, chaos and absolutely no progress on the weaknesses we’ve been seeing for years. In fact, we’ve been regressing since last Spring.
As for Xhaka, I’ve heard all the lame excuses before. Regardless of injuries and availability of other midfielders, Xhaka has been the one constant and clearly the first midfield name on the team sheet since the beginning of last season. There is no greater indictment of Emery than his belief in this totally inept footballer. We might as well take to the pitch with 10 players...in fact, that would be preferable, given the dangerous liability that he is on the pitch. There can be no excuse for picking the bloke, I’d rather see a youth team player in there.
Emery is not the answer and that’s now clear.
I’ve always said that I would give the new manager at least 2seasons to rebuild this team and my view hasn’t changed. As I outlined earlier, the scope of Emery’s task goes beyond simple team rebuilding. He has the biggest challenge in football and a remit to overhaul an entire culture.
Some of us who wanted Wenger out at any cost did so in good faith but more importantly we fully appreciated the sheer magnitude of the post-mortem. 16months on, the stench of Wengerosis can be felt around the place and more time is needed to scrub the place clean. Emery would have my support as long as we are not facing the threat of relegation. I tend to like him because he is honest, poor English notwithstanding, and far from the lying two faced deceitful **** that Wenger was.
All this talk of philosophy is the cherry on a cake that is still baking. We’ve sold or released nearly 20players and bought around 10. People must understand that it takes time to integrate new players and maintain the competitive floor. Whilst Emery has made mistakes we are still in transition and there’s a lot to learn. Every manager has inherent bad traits which become obvious once they start managing your club and this manager is no different. A lot of them have this fantasy that you sack a manger and suddenly everything is rosey.
For once in over a decade there is a clear plan in place and Emery has been set clear achievable targets. I keep reminding people that we are in October not March. Fail to achieve top 4 and Emery would rightly lose his job. Unfortunately we have one of the most toxic self entitled fanbase in world football whose emotions if not curbed would create a toxic situation for Emery.
Wenger’s acolytes, often synonymous with Ozil apologists, can’t wait for Emery to be sacked. It is fashionable to sack the manager at the earliest sign of trouble but the overriding feeling for me is that this team still has significant shortfalls and changing the manager would not bring about the drastic improvement some fans expect.
The Arsenal hierarchy needs to hold its nerve and allow the transition process to complete, hence my work in progress comment. Acting prematurely and sacking Emery would not only reset the cycle but it risks placing us in the same negative cycle as United with a fraction of the spending power.
G, well written and analytical, as I'd expect, but I'm struggling to agree with it mate. Very, very few on this forum were under any illusion as to the task awaiting Wenger's successor. It wasn't just a parlous and ill-disciplined squad that he left behind, but as you say, a rank culture that permeated the entire Club. I think that even the most optimistic amongst us, couldn't envisage anything resembling success inside 3 years and many thought up to 5 years....and that was if the right guy took the helm. I know of no-one who expected an immediate rosy future. Speaking about this forum, I can't think of any Wenger apologists / cultists and certainly none that wanted Emery to fail, although such morons do exist in the wider fanbase.
In addition to this and as I said earlier, I'd have accepted our final league position for last season, had you offered it to me in August of last year and if you'd told me then, that at this stage of his second season, we'd be where we currently are, I'd have thought that was reasonable. I'd have accepted his record for wins, draws, losses, believing it to be about right, given the mess he inherited.
However, we can't just observe things through the prism as at August of last year....there are constant developments, which require constant scrutiny and analysis. We had a long unbeaten run last Autumn (22 games ?), which we all know was a seat of the pants run, where we were struggling in almost every game, couldn't score a first half goal regardless of the possession we may have been enjoying and could well have seen many of the results go the other way. As frantic and disorganised as it was, I was pleased to see Emery and the team muddling through, believing the results and the good fortune to be a sound platform towards improvement....mind you, I harboured serious doubts about what might happen when we saw the inevitable reversal of the luck we were enjoying. Sadly, the improvements hadn't materialised prior to the luck running out.
Come the Spring, it was clear that Emery was out of ideas. His suicidal obsession with trying to play out from the back, was a constant accident waiting to happen. His team selections were beyond baffling and his allegiance to Xhaka the most worrying mystery of all....if he can't see how bad the guy is, when the entire World can see it, then I can't understand what he's doing in football management. After almost 18 months, there remains no obvious pattern to his team's play, no recognisable tactics and seemingly no notion of what his preferred first eleven is. Even if we remove Xhaka from the debate, why has Torreira fallen so far out of favour ? Why be so enamoured with Saka, over a highly promising Martinelli ? Why is Lacazette forever in and out of the starting 11 ? I could go on.
The rot truly set in from the end of March onwards. There can be be no excuse for the awful end of season collapse that ensued. Despite my saying that I'd have accepted our finishing position if offered it in August, we were all entitled to revise our ambitions during March and early April, when not only 4th place, but 3rd, looked very achievable. The failure was Wengeresque. The EL final worries me less, insofar as I never expected to beat Chelsea, although I didn't expect the dreadful performance we saw.
Since last Spring, we have been regressing and Emery is lost. A manager rarely comes back from such a position. Yes, I'd have accepted 5th or 6th last season and this, but with a hope that we'd be witnessing a proper re-building, not necessarily with money spent on star players, but on the development of a structure, an organisation, some decent team spirit, an eradication of the old defensive flaws and the signs of a recognisable plan, to give us hope and optimism for the future. In other words, 5th or 6th for two years or so, but hopes that we'd possibly be pushing for 2nd or 3rd after 3 or 4 seasons...as it is, the signs are that we'll be very lucky to stay where we are.
At the end of last season, despite grave doubts, I said that I'd reserve judgement until Christmas. I'll do that, but in honesty, I know the game's up.
I could go with your opinion that he needs a full two seasons, it's very fair and honourable and would at least put to bed any arguments about whether he should stay or go and whether the Club acted too hastily in firing him mid season. However, I'm convinced that the longer he's here, the worse it's going to get. I'd love him to prove me wrong, but I can't see a case for it.