Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[SteveO 35]

Saka, Mustafi, Luiz, AMN

Fucking hell lads that’s worse than the defence that went to OT and shipped 8.

Add a goalkeeping howler to the mix and you’ve a recipe for disaster right there.

Ancelotti and Allegri are great coaches but they’re not fucking miracle workers. Nobody is turning that defensive line into anything other than bang fucking average bordering on complete shit.

And neither was Emery who had the same shit tools and owner to work with. As it happens, since he left we've got worse and if Arteta gets a 22 game unbeaten run out of this squad in his first season everyone will be saying what a great job he's doing

[OneBardGooner]

Lot of negativity on here towards Arteta. Sad really. He knows as well as any of us how Poor our Squad is, he cannot say publicly there are at least 7 players in out first squad that he would kick out now if he could, he is having to make pearls out of a swines ear or whatever the effing saying is.

Ancelloti couldn't do any better with the shyte Arteta has at his disposal to play.

Like it or not this is going to be a long, loooooong hard road, not even Jesus H, Buddha, Allah or any other fuckerr could change this around in a few weeks, which is what some seem to be calling for.

Arteta knows only too well the challenge he has taken on, he knows far more about football etc that any of us on here so FFS get behind him and the team (as much as we may not like a number of players) and give him a chance.

[OneBardGooner]

Saka, Mustafi, Luiz, AMN

Fucking hell lads that’s worse than the defence that went to OT and shipped 8.

Add a goalkeeping howler to the mix and you’ve a recipe for disaster right there.

Ancelotti and Allegri are great coaches but they’re not fucking miracle workers. Nobody is turning that defensive line into anything other than bang fucking average bordering on complete shit.

And neither was Emery who had the same shit tools and owner to work with. As it happens, since he left we've got worse and if Arteta gets a 22 game unbeaten run out of this squad in his first season everyone will be saying what a great job he's doing

I disagree with that statement: Today's first half performance by Arsenal against the chavs was the best we have played in a long time.

[SteveO 35]

Lot of negativity on here towards Arteta. Sad really. He knows as well as any of us how Poor our Squad is, he cannot say publicly there are at least 7 players in out first squad that he would kick out now if he could, he is having to make pearls out of a swines ear or whatever the effing saying is.

Ancelloti couldn't do any better with the shyte Arteta has at his disposal to play.

Like it or not this is going to be a long, loooooong hard road, not even Jesus H, Buddha, Allah or any other fuckerr could change this around in a few weeks, which is what some seem to be calling for.

Arteta knows only too well the challenge he has taken on, he knows far more about football etc that any of us on here so FFS get behind him and the team (as much as we may not like a number of players) and give him a chance.

When Emery took over I said that I wouldn't make any judgement on him until after two whole seasons and four full transfer windows, such was the extent of the mess left to him by that fraudulent, senile old c.unt. Nothing changed my mind - not even the little run of poor results that ultimately cost him his job. I thought he did as well as could be expected, if not better, with the tools he had at his disposal and that remains my view

However, a narrow miss on the top four (nothing short of an absolute miracle) and a place in the EL final weren't enough for our spoilt brats and we fired him way too soon. So absolutely damn right, I will be analysing every single move Arteta makes because the guy has been brought in to make an improvement on what we had. He's actually got a better squad to work with than the one Emery inherited, so my level of sympathy is zero. The club have created this mess, the supporters demanded a change, so Pep's Cone Man had better start shitting the miracles everyone expected Emery to do.....and he better start fucking doing it soon

From where I'm sitting we are worse than under Emery and trying to copy cat a side that spent hundreds of millions getting it where it is today, rather than building a pattern of play based on what's actually available to him.

Meanwhile Sheffield United sit 5 points above us and are giving Man City more of a game than we ever could with a defence and midfield still comprising players from their League One days. But having someone like that in charge just wouldn't be cool enough for us.....

[SteveO 35]

Saka, Mustafi, Luiz, AMN

Fucking hell lads that’s worse than the defence that went to OT and shipped 8.

Add a goalkeeping howler to the mix and you’ve a recipe for disaster right there.

Ancelotti and Allegri are great coaches but they’re not fucking miracle workers. Nobody is turning that defensive line into anything other than bang fucking average bordering on complete shit.

And neither was Emery who had the same shit tools and owner to work with. As it happens, since he left we've got worse and if Arteta gets a 22 game unbeaten run out of this squad in his first season everyone will be saying what a great job he's doing

I disagree with that statement: Today's first half performance by Arsenal against the chavs was the best we have played in a long time.

Depends what you mean by a long time. The one we produced against Spurs at home last season, or Valencia away? We played well for 35 minutes today and were then totally outplayed for the other 65 minutes after their manager had the sense and bravery to make a single first half substitution

I thought the second half was as boring and sterile as anything I've seen in a long time

[northbank123]

OBG the negativity from my perspective isn’t because he has done badly the two games he’s had in charge, it’s because our managerial role is a poisoned chalice to start with and we have given it to somebody who is blindingly obviously the wrong sort of appointment.

[rodders999]

I’ve seen countless posts on this forum talking about how Pep and Klopp both struggled badly in their first season in the league with both clubs finishing well off the pace that year.

And that analysis is spot on.

But for some reason because Arteta hasn’t us conquering all around us after 2 games with a make shift defence he’s a fucking dud and we’re doomed.

Now maybe things won’t work out under him or maybe they will but I’m pretty sure we’re going to need a little bit longer to get to the answer than some are prepared to give.

[SteveO 35]

I’ve seen countless posts on this forum talking about how Pep and Klopp both struggled badly in their first season in the league with both clubs finishing well off the pace that year.

And that analysis is spot on.

But for some reason because Arteta hasn’t us conquering all around us after 2 games with a make shift defence he’s a fucking dud and we’re doomed.

Now maybe things won’t work out under him or maybe they will but I’m pretty sure we’re going to need a little bit longer to get to the answer than some are prepared to give.

The difference being of course that both of those clubs backed their manager with tens/hundreds of millions to spend transforming their teams, whilst our wig wearing c.unt is the only PL owner not to have put a single penny of his own cash into the club. Klopp also had the benefit of saleable assets like Coutinho who funded the purchases of Alisson and Van Dijk and still had cash left over. The clowns that run our club allow our best players to leave for nothing. How many players would we need to sell in our team to raise the £160m the Mickeys got for Coutinho......probably the whole first eleven

I'm pretty certain that Chris Wilder is doing a better job managing Sheffield United than Pep would managing them, and I'm pretty sure Dyche is doing a better job running Burnley than Klopp would. Different strokes for different folks - we are a mid table team who went for Pepe over Zaha because we couldn't afford the latter.....a player that all of the other top six clubs in this country would sign overnight if they needed to.

If Arteta succeeded Pep with £200m to spend I'd dare say he would do well. Taking over a team scrapping midtable with Burnley and Newcastle and tuppence ha'penny to spend requires something else. Newcastle have proved that with Bruce. Not saying he's all of a sudden become the best thing since sliced bread but after Benitez they needed someone to stop them going down with fuck all to spend.....and he fits the bill

I just can't believe we're trying to be Barcelona, when beating Bournemouth would be a start

[northbank123]

The key difference with that is that - whatever allegations people might make about being chequebook managers (Guardiola in particular) - they had a huge deal of experience when taking those jobs. Klopp has nearly a decade and a half (7/8 years at a big club achieving big things in Dortmund) and Guardiola has 8/9 years at the highest level at Barcelona and Bayern.

A few years ago Arteta was still hacking round playing at us and he hasn’t managed anybody. A few years of him watching Pep spaff £50m+ on anybody who takes his fancy isn’t a substitute for that.

[rodders999]

All good points well made but even current day Liverpool or City would be fucked if they found themselves down 2 left backs, 2 right backs and 3 centre backs.

Our first choice defence wouldn’t fill you with much confidence, we must be down to our 6th choice selection at this point.

I don’t think you’d actually need to spend a massive amount of money to improve us big time defensively (fingers crossed on Saliba) never EVER playing Mustafi would also help

[SteveO 35]

All good points well made but even current day Liverpool or City would be fucked if they found themselves down 2 left backs, 2 right backs and 3 centre backs.

Our first choice defence wouldn’t fill you with much confidence, we must be down to our 6th choice selection at this point.

I don’t think you’d actually need to spend a massive amount of money to improve us big time defensively (fingers crossed on Saliba) never EVER playing Mustafi would also help

People turned their noses up at signing Jonny Evans and Gary Cahill but the reality is that total investment would have cost under 5 million and instead we are looking at Mustafi, Mavropanos and Sokratis now if Chambers is out.

The way Abraham side stepped Mustafi for that winning goal - jesus christ, if you were managing a nine year old centre half you'd teach him to be tighter than that and be mortified to see him beaten that easily.

If Arteta doesn't get rid of that *word censored* and sign two centre halves in January, then he's even more out of depth than i thought

[NickF]

I’ve seen countless posts on this forum talking about how Pep and Klopp both struggled badly in their first season in the league with both clubs finishing well off the pace that year.

And that analysis is spot on.

But for some reason because Arteta hasn’t us conquering all around us after 2 games with a make shift defence he’s a fucking dud and we’re doomed.

Now maybe things won’t work out under him or maybe they will but I’m pretty sure we’re going to need a little bit longer to get to the answer than some are prepared to give.

My God, I'm agreeing with Rodders!
It is sad (though not unexpected) that people are already writing off Arteta. I thought that there were definite signs of improvement defensively in the first half.

If you're going to write someone off immediately how is anyone ever going to get long enough to take us forward?

[TeeCee]

Nick, it’s not going to happen! Some people want to see a new manager winning 10 games on the trot after coming in just so they can say I’ll judge him at the end of the season’!!

Emery had over 80 games and still didn’t know his ‘best’ team, best formation or a preferred way of playing ie counter attack, high press, tip tap etc etc so he had to go. He also had no idea (or balls) when handling big egos in the squad).

Arteta is where we are. It doesn’t matter who came in to manage us, NO-ONE could get such a poor defence playing well, it simply isn’t possible. Our midfield is diabolical and makes the defence look even worse! People need to accept this, seriously!!

The last few signings seem to have been made ‘above’ the manager, Dick didn’t want Pepe or Luiz, probably didn’t know anything about Martinelli. Our club is fucked all the way to the top. The ONLY way we will see a decent upturn in results is if Arteta is given 100m + to spend in January, that he’s allowed to buy the players HE wants and of course that he actually signs quality. Add to that, if we had less injuries we would be a little better but the clubs injury record for the last 10 years at least is appalling.

This is the ‘perfect storm’ that could easily see us relegated this season. There isn’t a PL team with a worst defence/less fight than us at the moment. Scary!!

[augie]

I argued for a long time that the players were fcuking emery over, and ultimately it was them that got him sacked. You knew that they had downed tools in a bid to get him fired, and I am shocked that the players have been given a free pass for their unacceptable application and attitudes (not to mention performances) by a massive percentage of the fanbase. A large percentage of the fans had turned against emery and felt (and many still feel) that he was the problem, when the reality was that he was only a part of the problem. I understand why fans wanted a change of manager and then hoped for the bounce teams get under a new manager, but there is a difference between optimism and blind optimism, and reality should be kicking in by then. A load of sanctimonious fans are now having a pop at other fans question and criticizing arteta, but that is a little hypocritical imo - there is a reason why arteta received ZERO votes in the poll on here for choice of next manager, but now we are all supposed to believe that he is the right man for the job ? If these fans felt he was the right appointment, then why didnt they vote for him in the poll ? We needed an experienced manager to guide us out of the shit we are in - we needed a pragmatic manager willing to adapt to what he is dealing with, but instead we got a principled manager who believes that football should be played the right way (a mini wenger ) and who has ZERO experience as a manager.

This isnt about slating arteta who might turn out in a few years time to be a good manager - this is about a sense of realism where draws away to a struggling/shit bournemouth team are not taken as a reason for positivity simple cos of a managerial change.

[SteveO 35]

I argued for a long time that the players were fcuking emery over, and ultimately it was them that got him sacked. You knew that they had downed tools in a bid to get him fired, and I am shocked that the players have been given a free pass for their unacceptable application and attitudes (not to mention performances) by a massive percentage of the fanbase. A large percentage of the fans had turned against emery and felt (and many still feel) that he was the problem, when the reality was that he was only a part of the problem. I understand why fans wanted a change of manager and then hoped for the bounce teams get under a new manager, but there is a difference between optimism and blind optimism, and reality should be kicking in by then. A load of sanctimonious fans are now having a pop at other fans question and criticizing arteta, but that is a little hypocritical imo - there is a reason why arteta received ZERO votes in the poll on here for choice of next manager, but now we are all supposed to believe that he is the right man for the job ? If these fans felt he was the right appointment, then why didnt they vote for him in the poll ? We needed an experienced manager to guide us out of the shit we are in - we needed a pragmatic manager willing to adapt to what he is dealing with, but instead we got a principled manager who believes that football should be played the right way (a mini wenger ) and who has ZERO experience as a manager.

This isnt about slating arteta who might turn out in a few years time to be a good manager - this is about a sense of realism where draws away to a struggling/shit bournemouth team are not taken as a reason for positivity simple cos of a managerial change.

Pretty much exactly as I see it. I learned very early in life that you can't pick your boss and I knew that after years of the previous senile prick at the helm who allowed his little violets to behave how they wanted provided they were having fun and continuing his endless project, that certain players wouldn't suddenly like to be held to account or made to work harder. Ozil was just one example of that when Emery took over, Xhaka about to become the next one, and he also offloaded a load of shit like Elneny and Jenkinson that cock features had cluttering the squad. If we'd let him carry on for the rest of this season I firmly believe that Mustafi, Xhaka, Ozil at the least would have gone and freed up more than 500k in wages, and allowed us to undertake the second part of the rebuilding project.

However, we've scrapped that plan due to impatience and a 'blame the manager' for everything attitude and opted for Pep's Cone Man who now seems hellbent on persuading Xhaka to stay

As I've said before, I liked Arteta a lot as a player and for me he was the one signing we made in the panic window after the 8-2 who really added something to the team. Probably a very bright coach too. However, this club is rotten to the core and needs someone like GG to shake off a decade long demise and loser's mentality and clear out the entire defence. Arteta won't be that man. Dyche or Wilder would have been better appointments if we couldn't have attracted Ancelotti, Allegri or Benitez