Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.

Will he ?

Have a statue erected after 30 glorious years service?
2
4%
Be a success, pick up a few trophies and put the club back on an even keel?
18
34%
Be a moderate success, before handing over to a more high profile successor?
13
25%
Be an utter fucking disaster?
20
38%
 
Total votes: 53

Redarmy
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby Redarmy » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:54 pm

That first half performance has certainly given Arteta something to work on....just shows they are not a milion miles from slipping back to where they were...its a massive task....will have to keep pushing them all the way

He must have identified some players are not good enough and he must be looking at shipping out asap

Overall encouraging and could not expect too much more at this stage

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DB10GOONER
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby DB10GOONER » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:12 pm

Senior player admitting that they ignored the manager's tactics. Maybe, it wasn't all down to emery. Fair plat for Arteta's reaction, never had him down as a shouter, throwing the proverbial tea cups. First time since 2012 an arsenal manager has lost it with his players at half time. Again, another marker set down Arteta.
Thing is when he's on the touchline - Besides being 'animated' He has that Dead Serious Look on him (like Pepe it has to be said) He is quick to laughter in the pre & post match interviews where it is warranted, but you can tell he takes NO SHYTE and will dropm the axe on someone if it is needed.



Arteta Whooaaa Whooaaa Ohh!

He's got Captain Scarlet Hair!

Arteta Whooaaa Whooaaa Ohh!

He kicks butt and he don't care! :barscarf:
Are all these Arteta songs going to involve rhyming "hair" with "he don't care"? :lol: :wink:

Jock Gooner
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby Jock Gooner » Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:10 pm

Senior player admitting that they ignored the manager's tactics. Maybe, it wasn't all down to emery. Fair plat for Arteta's reaction, never had him down as a shouter, throwing the proverbial tea cups. First time since 2012 an arsenal manager has lost it with his players at half time. Again, another marker set down Arteta.
Thing is when he's on the touchline - Besides being 'animated' He has that Dead Serious Look on him (like Pepe it has to be said) He is quick to laughter in the pre & post match interviews where it is warranted, but you can tell he takes NO SHYTE and will dropm the axe on someone if it is needed.



Arteta Whooaaa Whooaaa Ohh!

He's got Captain Scarlet Hair!

Arteta Whooaaa Whooaaa Ohh!

He kicks butt and he don't care! :barscarf:
Are all these Arteta songs going to involve rhyming "hair" with "he don't care"? :lol: :wink:

Sorry but of far greater importance is the requirement for a good Martinelli song. Last night it was the old Pigbag tune which is hardly creative. This guy is gonna be great so let's not saddle the poor fuc.ker with a song that's half cocked. The worst song ever continues to be the Laca chant - whoever came up with that bollox is a useless cu.nt.

Clash
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby Clash » Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:10 pm


Are all these Arteta songs going to involve rhyming "hair" with "he don't care"? :lol: :wink:
Sorry but of far greater importance is the requirement for a good Martinelli song. Last night it was the old Pigbag tune which is hardly creative. This guy is gonna be great so let's not saddle the poor fuc.ker with a song that's half cocked. The worst song ever continues to be the Laca chant - whoever came up with that bollox is a useless cu.nt.
yeah that Laca chant is 100% worst song and chant ever Jock. Modern music is as bad as modern football IMO - absolute shite for the most part! But it was always gonna happen that something like that would find its way into the game :banghead: Completely agree about the Pigbag song too. I had enough of that one back in the Sol Campbell days!

Chart music from any era rarely works for football crowds. The best football tunes will always be from hymns - which were made for community singing I suppose.

And talking of an Arteta song brings me to what I heard last night. Remember the old ''whooaah, you're shit aaaaah'' thing crowds used to do when the keeper was taking a goal-kick? Well some bloke behind me last night did that a few times but instead it was ''Arrrrrr-tetttt-aaaaaah' :banghead: :banghead: If that catches on I'm done! Wenger didnt finish me and neither has Stan .... but that almost certainly will! :censored:

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OneBardGooner
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby OneBardGooner » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:04 pm

Senior player admitting that they ignored the manager's tactics. Maybe, it wasn't all down to emery. Fair plat for Arteta's reaction, never had him down as a shouter, throwing the proverbial tea cups. First time since 2012 an arsenal manager has lost it with his players at half time. Again, another marker set down Arteta.
Thing is when he's on the touchline - Besides being 'animated' He has that Dead Serious Look on him (like Pepe it has to be said) He is quick to laughter in the pre & post match interviews where it is warranted, but you can tell he takes NO SHYTE and will dropm the axe on someone if it is needed.



Arteta Whooaaa Whooaaa Ohh!

He's got Captain Scarlet Hair!

Arteta Whooaaa Whooaaa Ohh!

He kicks butt and he don't care! :barscarf:
Are all these Arteta songs going to involve rhyming "hair" with "he don't care"? :lol: :wink:
Hopefully! :lol:

clockender1
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby clockender1 » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:03 pm

Perhaps something Spanish -

Hey Viva, Mikel Arteta,
he comes from sunny sunny spain,
Hey viva Mikel Arteta

Hes going to make The Arsenal great again,
Hey Viva Mikel Arteta,
Arteta, thank you and Por Favor....

:barscarf:

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wibble
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby wibble » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:43 pm

Perhaps something Spanish -

Hey Viva, Mikel Arteta,
he comes from sunny sunny spain,
Hey viva Mikel Arteta

Hes going to make The Arsenal great again,
Hey Viva Mikel Arteta,
Arteta, thank you and Por Favor....

:barscarf:
Perhaps not :wink:

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wibble
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby wibble » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:46 pm

Changing the formation after our first win in yonks is the type of thing that emery would have been panned for, and yet nobody mentioned it all :roll:
Ludicrous decision imo
I'd imagine something popped up in training that made him decide to change it slightly to accomodate the players that he would be starting with. For me (if that is what happened) that's a huge positive. Wenger and Dick (to a lesser extent) were obsessed with wedging players into a system that many of the players were not suited to. A pragmatic manager looks at the players he has and picks the system / formation to get the best he can out of the players rather than rigidly sticking to a system and forcing players into it regardless of their ability to play in that system.
Like sticking Sokratis at right back for example. :D

I’m not sure there was any change in our formation/system tbh

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DB10GOONER
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby DB10GOONER » Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:49 am

Changing the formation after our first win in yonks is the type of thing that emery would have been panned for, and yet nobody mentioned it all :roll:
Ludicrous decision imo
I'd imagine something popped up in training that made him decide to change it slightly to accomodate the players that he would be starting with. For me (if that is what happened) that's a huge positive. Wenger and Dick (to a lesser extent) were obsessed with wedging players into a system that many of the players were not suited to. A pragmatic manager looks at the players he has and picks the system / formation to get the best he can out of the players rather than rigidly sticking to a system and forcing players into it regardless of their ability to play in that system.
Like sticking Sokratis at right back for example. :D

I’m not sure there was any change in our formation/system tbh
In fairness to Sokratis apart from getting overlapped a couple of times he did ok there and offered more fight and grit than any RB since Dicko.

Tbh it looked to me like he was playing a flexible back 3 that could shift one player over to become a 4 with cover for the backs depending on which side we were attacking or defending. Kind of a little bit like the flexibility GG used to do where Bouldy or TA6 and the other full back would all move over one place to help out Dicko or Nutty as required.

Also not having the work rate of Torreira in front of the defence would dictate how they position themselves.

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augie
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby augie » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:29 am

The kind of abject lazy performance that required a bollocking at half time in the leeds game, is the type of performance that you might expect after 3 months or 6 months when players get used to a manager, but after only 3 GAMES ?? I don't think that it is acceptable at all. The fact that these players needed the bollocking so early in arteta's reign doesn't bode well and is more of a reflection on the players than it is the manager. Some of these c.unts are gonna continue to take the piss as long as they are in our club, and if arteta thinks that he is the one to turn them around, then he is both arrogant and naïve/stupid. I've said it before that some of our players seem to get the hump when the likes of auba and leno get rested, cos they take it personally as though it tells them that they aint important enough to be rested :roll: Managers can come in and motivate and light a fire under players sporadically but they shouldn't need to do it constantly - the motivation to succeed has to come from within the players, and too many of our players don't have the necessary drive and need to be moved on. How quick arteta realizes that will have a large part in whether he succeeds with us or not

Clash
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby Clash » Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:32 am

The kind of abject lazy performance that required a bollocking at half time in the leeds game, is the type of performance that you might expect after 3 months or 6 months when players get used to a manager, but after only 3 GAMES ?? I don't think that it is acceptable at all. The fact that these players needed the bollocking so early in arteta's reign doesn't bode well and is more of a reflection on the players than it is the manager. Some of these c.unts are gonna continue to take the piss as long as they are in our club, and if arteta thinks that he is the one to turn them around, then he is both arrogant and naïve/stupid. I've said it before that some of our players seem to get the hump when the likes of auba and leno get rested, cos they take it personally as though it tells them that they aint important enough to be rested :roll: Managers can come in and motivate and light a fire under players sporadically but they shouldn't need to do it constantly - the motivation to succeed has to come from within the players, and too many of our players don't have the necessary drive and need to be moved on. How quick arteta realizes that will have a large part in whether he succeeds with us or not
Absolutely 100% right!

I am quietly encouraged with what little we have seen of Arteta so far but if he really is to succeed in the long term it will not be with the majority of the players we currently have. I would say at least half will need to go, maybe even more than that.

We all know football is not just about ability. Its about attitude, aggression and hunger. All those things clockender1 wrote about yesterday. Those characteristics have been in short supply at our club for well over a decade and the only way to really bring them back permanently is by making major changes in personnel. And that will take time so as RedArmy says, we probably cannot expect too much more at this stage.

I do think there will be some lull in the coming weeks but as long as enough signs of improvement remain, I will not become too disheartened.

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SteveO 35
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby SteveO 35 » Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:22 pm

The kind of abject lazy performance that required a bollocking at half time in the leeds game, is the type of performance that you might expect after 3 months or 6 months when players get used to a manager, but after only 3 GAMES ?? I don't think that it is acceptable at all. The fact that these players needed the bollocking so early in arteta's reign doesn't bode well and is more of a reflection on the players than it is the manager. Some of these c.unts are gonna continue to take the piss as long as they are in our club, and if arteta thinks that he is the one to turn them around, then he is both arrogant and naïve/stupid. I've said it before that some of our players seem to get the hump when the likes of auba and leno get rested, cos they take it personally as though it tells them that they aint important enough to be rested :roll: Managers can come in and motivate and light a fire under players sporadically but they shouldn't need to do it constantly - the motivation to succeed has to come from within the players, and too many of our players don't have the necessary drive and need to be moved on. How quick arteta realizes that will have a large part in whether he succeeds with us or not
That's exactly how I see it Augie and in the same way Dick needed to (and was starting to) get rid of some of these c.unts, Arteta is going to have do likewise. I've said it many times - the vast majority of this squad have only ever grown up with Banter FC and the losers culture that was tolerated under Wenger. Seven of the starting line up that played Leeds were players either signed by him or were at the club when he was manager - coincidence that they strolled up with a lazy, devil-may-care, cocksure attitude against a supposedly inferior team? I think not. It obviously took the mother of all talks to get this lot fired up and even then I would argue that the newer players (Luiz, Sokratis, Gunedouzi, Pepe and Martinelli) played a big role in that.

Fair play to Arteta for getting that reaction but as I said on the match thread, if Leeds had even a half decent PL striker up front as opposed to the absolutely hopeless Bamford, we would have been out of the game at half time. To my mind under Arteta we were bang average at Bournemouth and played in fits and starts, shite against Chelsea other than the first 35 minutes, very good throughout against Man U (albeit looked 'leggy' at the start of the second half) and great for 45 minutes against Leeds and desperate in the other half

I want the manager to be a roaring success (honestly!) but until he continues Dick's broom sweeping exercise and offloads some more of the shite or gets a consistent change in attitude, we won't move on much further from where we are today

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GoonerMuzz
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby GoonerMuzz » Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:34 pm

The kind of abject lazy performance that required a bollocking at half time in the leeds game, is the type of performance that you might expect after 3 months or 6 months when players get used to a manager, but after only 3 GAMES ?? I don't think that it is acceptable at all. The fact that these players needed the bollocking so early in arteta's reign doesn't bode well and is more of a reflection on the players than it is the manager. Some of these c.unts are gonna continue to take the piss as long as they are in our club, and if arteta thinks that he is the one to turn them around, then he is both arrogant and naïve/stupid. I've said it before that some of our players seem to get the hump when the likes of auba and leno get rested, cos they take it personally as though it tells them that they aint important enough to be rested :roll: Managers can come in and motivate and light a fire under players sporadically but they shouldn't need to do it constantly - the motivation to succeed has to come from within the players, and too many of our players don't have the necessary drive and need to be moved on. How quick arteta realizes that will have a large part in whether he succeeds with us or not
That's exactly how I see it Augie and in the same way Dick needed to (and was starting to) get rid of some of these c.unts, Arteta is going to have do likewise. I've said it many times - the vast majority of this squad have only ever grown up with Banter FC and the losers culture that was tolerated under Wenger. Seven of the starting line up that played Leeds were players either signed by him or were at the club when he was manager - coincidence that they strolled up with a lazy, devil-may-care, cocksure attitude against a supposedly inferior team? I think not. It obviously took the mother of all talks to get this lot fired up and even then I would argue that the newer players (Luiz, Sokratis, Gunedouzi, Pepe and Martinelli) played a big role in that.

Fair play to Arteta for getting that reaction but as I said on the match thread, if Leeds had even a half decent PL striker up front as opposed to the absolutely hopeless Bamford, we would have been out of the game at half time. To my mind under Arteta we were bang average at Bournemouth and played in fits and starts, shite against Chelsea other than the first 35 minutes, very good throughout against Man U (albeit looked 'leggy' at the start of the second half) and great for 45 minutes against Leeds and desperate in the other half

I want the manager to be a roaring success (honestly!) but until he continues Dick's broom sweeping exercise and offloads some more of the shite or gets a consistent change in attitude, we won't move on much further from where we are today
The reality is that the Club will not sanction losing so many players so quickly and likely take a loss on most of them, cant see getting anywhere near the value paid for Ozil, Xhaka, Mustafi for a start.

I completely agree with what you both say, but you're purely looking at it from a Football common sense point of view, remember we're a business now, something our club take into account last, on a much lower rung than the 'resale' value of a player and if we dont get near the club's asking price i can see a few of these muppets seeing out there contracts again or at the most only being allowed to leave in the last year where minimum value is all you'll get.

Personally i'm not convinced on the new people in the various directors role, we've been left with certain players that should have been gotten rid of in the summer, something which i think might have kept Emery his job, and would have meant a better atmosphere around the squad from the start of the season but in the main those individuals are still here.

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SteveO 35
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby SteveO 35 » Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:12 pm

The kind of abject lazy performance that required a bollocking at half time in the leeds game, is the type of performance that you might expect after 3 months or 6 months when players get used to a manager, but after only 3 GAMES ?? I don't think that it is acceptable at all. The fact that these players needed the bollocking so early in arteta's reign doesn't bode well and is more of a reflection on the players than it is the manager. Some of these c.unts are gonna continue to take the piss as long as they are in our club, and if arteta thinks that he is the one to turn them around, then he is both arrogant and naïve/stupid. I've said it before that some of our players seem to get the hump when the likes of auba and leno get rested, cos they take it personally as though it tells them that they aint important enough to be rested :roll: Managers can come in and motivate and light a fire under players sporadically but they shouldn't need to do it constantly - the motivation to succeed has to come from within the players, and too many of our players don't have the necessary drive and need to be moved on. How quick arteta realizes that will have a large part in whether he succeeds with us or not
That's exactly how I see it Augie and in the same way Dick needed to (and was starting to) get rid of some of these c.unts, Arteta is going to have do likewise. I've said it many times - the vast majority of this squad have only ever grown up with Banter FC and the losers culture that was tolerated under Wenger. Seven of the starting line up that played Leeds were players either signed by him or were at the club when he was manager - coincidence that they strolled up with a lazy, devil-may-care, cocksure attitude against a supposedly inferior team? I think not. It obviously took the mother of all talks to get this lot fired up and even then I would argue that the newer players (Luiz, Sokratis, Gunedouzi, Pepe and Martinelli) played a big role in that.

Fair play to Arteta for getting that reaction but as I said on the match thread, if Leeds had even a half decent PL striker up front as opposed to the absolutely hopeless Bamford, we would have been out of the game at half time. To my mind under Arteta we were bang average at Bournemouth and played in fits and starts, shite against Chelsea other than the first 35 minutes, very good throughout against Man U (albeit looked 'leggy' at the start of the second half) and great for 45 minutes against Leeds and desperate in the other half

I want the manager to be a roaring success (honestly!) but until he continues Dick's broom sweeping exercise and offloads some more of the shite or gets a consistent change in attitude, we won't move on much further from where we are today
The reality is that the Club will not sanction losing so many players so quickly and likely take a loss on most of them, cant see getting anywhere near the value paid for Ozil, Xhaka, Mustafi for a start.

I completely agree with what you both say, but you're purely looking at it from a Football common sense point of view, remember we're a business now, something our club take into account last, on a much lower rung than the 'resale' value of a player and if we dont get near the club's asking price i can see a few of these muppets seeing out there contracts again or at the most only being allowed to leave in the last year where minimum value is all you'll get.

Personally i'm not convinced on the new people in the various directors role, we've been left with certain players that should have been gotten rid of in the summer, something which i think might have kept Emery his job, and would have meant a better atmosphere around the squad from the start of the season but in the main those individuals are still here.
Sadly I agree - my only hope is that Arteta negotiated well on the way in, in terms of a clear remit. However, I think you're right and the reality is that he would have been delighted to be appointed in the first place

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NickF
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby NickF » Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:14 pm


I am quietly encouraged with what little we have seen of Arteta so far but if he really is to succeed in the long term it will not be with the majority of the players we currently have. I would say at least half will need to go, maybe even more than that.
I agree, however it will take quite a few transfer windows to replace half the squad. With football the way it is now, I'm not sure Arteta will be afforded that amount of time.


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