Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[mcdowell42]

Ancelotti - 9 points from a possible 12. One defeat being 2-1 at Man City

Arteta - 5 points from a possible 12. Draws against Bournemouth and Palace Reserves

I suppose Everton have better players available lol

Not judging by their embarrassing loss to Liverpool's kindergarten team

[SteveO 35]

Ancelotti - 9 points from a possible 12. One defeat being 2-1 at Man City

Arteta - 5 points from a possible 12. Draws against Bournemouth and Palace Reserves

I suppose Everton have better players available lol

Not judging by their embarrassing loss to Liverpool's kindergarten team

That performance was pathetic but the league form has been very solid. See it took him a week to work out Cenk Tosun was useless and pack him off. Apparently though everyone is entitled to a 'clean slate'

[mcdowell42]

Like yourself stevo he wasn't in my list of managers, but what can we do, at the end of the day the Kroenkes don't give a fuck about us, he's the guy in the hotseat, we will just have to ride it out for a couple of seasons, we are way off top 4 material but I'd love a good run in the fa Cup.

[SteveO 35]

Like yourself stevo he wasn't in my list of managers, but what can we do, at the end of the day the Kroenkes don't give a fuck about us, he's the guy in the hotseat, we will just have to ride it out for a couple of seasons, we are way off top 4 material but I'd love a good run in the fa Cup.

Yep, its all about the EL and the FA Cup from here on in mate. I'm glad the top 4 is out of reach because it might stop people finally fucking talking about it and focus on the competitions that matter

[GoonerMuzz]

Like yourself stevo he wasn't in my list of managers, but what can we do, at the end of the day the Kroenkes don't give a fuck about us, he's the guy in the hotseat, we will just have to ride it out for a couple of seasons, we are way off top 4 material but I'd love a good run in the fa Cup.

Yep, its all about the EL and the FA Cup from here on in mate. I'm glad the top 4 is out of reach because it might stop people finally fucking talking about it and focus on the competitions that matter

I'm not sure either of those are realistic either, with this bunch of players Roll on summer

[clockender1]

This season is done i'm afraid.

With chambers out, we need two CBs, a full back who can defend, and two new CMs, and we dont have the young players in the squad to come in and play a high energy disciplined pressing game.

The problem for Arteta is the same as for Dick, the board will not write off a near £200 million of 'talent' by dropping ozil, mustafi, kolasinac, and xhaka.

We can only trundle along until the summer and rebuild using whatever proceeds we get, plus any funds released by the board.

If we are lucky, we might pick up a CB this window, but i dont see it.

[augie]

Am I the only one who thinks that arteta has hung his captain out here ?

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... -max-meyer

The tackle doesn't look good in slow motion replay and I get that, but use the word "mistimed" or something along those lines instead of saying that it was a "nasty tackle" ffs. It seems that hodgson made more of an effort to defend auba than arteta did

[g88ner]

Emery's league record this season - Played 13 Won 4 Drawn 6 Lost 3 - Scored 18 Conceded 19, Points 18

So, we averaged 1.38 points per game, average goals scored 1.38 per game, average goals conceded 1.46 per game

Record since Emery's departure - Played 9 Won 2 Drawn 4 Lost 3 - Scored 11 Conceded 12, Points 10

So we average 1.11 points per game, average goals scored 1.22 per game, average goals conceded 1.33


So we've conceded slightly fewer on average, but have a worse win ratio, fewer points per game, and poorer in front of goal

There's been 9 games since he left, so 4 more before there have been as many since he was in charge as before. If 13 was enough to judge him, 5 was too many for Freddie then how many are we allowed before we can judge Arteta?

Emery was judged over 18 months mate, not 13 games. Second half of Last season was abysmal or have you forgotten the thrashing in the Europa league final and capitulation in the league? That season left a scar that clearly affected us this season too.

I wanted emery to succeed but he simply wasn’t able to get the players working as a unit. It was awful and he had to go.

As for Arteta, he’s here so might as well give the guy a chance. Who knows, maybe he’ll surprise people. Personally, I’m pleased with his attitude and clarity of his messages. Let’s see

[SteveO 35]

Emery's league record this season - Played 13 Won 4 Drawn 6 Lost 3 - Scored 18 Conceded 19, Points 18

So, we averaged 1.38 points per game, average goals scored 1.38 per game, average goals conceded 1.46 per game

Record since Emery's departure - Played 9 Won 2 Drawn 4 Lost 3 - Scored 11 Conceded 12, Points 10

So we average 1.11 points per game, average goals scored 1.22 per game, average goals conceded 1.33


So we've conceded slightly fewer on average, but have a worse win ratio, fewer points per game, and poorer in front of goal

There's been 9 games since he left, so 4 more before there have been as many since he was in charge as before. If 13 was enough to judge him, 5 was too many for Freddie then how many are we allowed before we can judge Arteta?

Emery was judged over 18 months mate, not 13 games. Second half of Last season was abysmal or have you forgotten the thrashing in the Europa league final and capitulation in the league? That season left a scar that clearly affected us this season too.

I wanted emery to succeed but he simply wasn’t able to get the players working as a unit. It was awful and he had to go.

As for Arteta, he’s here so might as well give the guy a chance. Who knows, maybe he’ll surprise people. Personally, I’m pleased with his attitude and clarity of his messages. Let’s see

Except he wasn't judged over 18 months.....because if he was people might have taken the view that we reached a major final in his first season, and missed the CL by 1 point......something the previous sack of shit didn't manage to achieve and was on course to take us further backwards. I will never forget the EL final, and I will never forgive the owner for not putting in a penny of his own cash to help the new manager. Maitland Niles torn apart by Hazard, and an ex-Gooner exposing our soft as shit CBs again. Who could forget it? All we have now are the same issues passed on to an even less experienced manager. Lets see if Arteta has us within a point of the CL, manages a 22 game unbeaten run and gets us to a major final by the end of next season which will be his 18 months........if he doesn't then will people still be talking about this major improvement we're seeing

[Clash]

There seems to be two different viewpoints developing about Arteta so far. One which says there is no improvement but people are seeing what they want to see ... and the other saying there is clear improvement and you have to be blind not to see it

I am somewhere in between (so maybe that makes 3 viewpoints ) in that I think there has been a minor improvement defensively and also attitude wise ... but results and performances do not show anywhere near enough improvement to justify calling out people who do not see this as being negative etc.

We had 3 home games in a row with mixed results and performances but the away performances have not been at all impressive. I think its far too early to make any fair judgement on the manager though because we need to see what he does over several months in a number of different circumstances first.

It's not too early to judge most of these players though and they are a shockingly inept bunch for the most part so until there is a major clear-out the frustrating performances will continue!

[DB10GOONER]

There seems to be two different viewpoints developing about Arteta so far. One which says there is no improvement but people are seeing what they want to see ... and the other saying there is clear improvement and you have to be blind not to see it

I am somewhere in between (so maybe that makes 3 viewpoints ) in that I think there has been a minor improvement defensively and also attitude wise ... but results and performances do not show anywhere near enough improvement to justify calling out people who do not see this as being negative etc.

We had 3 home games in a row with mixed results and performances but the away performances have not been at all impressive. I think its far too early to make any fair judgement on the manager though because we need to see what he does over several months in a number of different circumstances first.

It's not too early to judge most of these players though and they are a shockingly inept bunch for the most part so until there is a major clear-out the frustrating performances will continue!

Good post mate. Hits where I'm at too. Was totally whelmed when Arteta was announced and still not convinced he is the right guy but Emery had to go. Playing Kryten Features in the EL final was the final straw of many straws for me.

Arteta is there now. We need to just accept that and give him a chance. I feel he has to get at least one full season on top of this season to see if he can make a marked and sustained improvement to us. May 2021 I'll judge him - unless he has been sacked before then (very possible) or we have gone to utter utter shit.

[SteveO 35]

There seems to be two different viewpoints developing about Arteta so far. One which says there is no improvement but people are seeing what they want to see ... and the other saying there is clear improvement and you have to be blind not to see it

I am somewhere in between (so maybe that makes 3 viewpoints ) in that I think there has been a minor improvement defensively and also attitude wise ... but results and performances do not show anywhere near enough improvement to justify calling out people who do not see this as being negative etc.

We had 3 home games in a row with mixed results and performances but the away performances have not been at all impressive. I think its far too early to make any fair judgement on the manager though because we need to see what he does over several months in a number of different circumstances first.

It's not too early to judge most of these players though and they are a shockingly inept bunch for the most part so until there is a major clear-out the frustrating performances will continue!

That's a good post mate - very balanced. Emery had a really poor run at the end - there is no doubt about that but I would also say that he had some wretched luck too. In the same way some have had a pop at the c.unt who reffed the Palace game at the weekend, ironically the ref for the Palace home game started off our shocking run under Dick. The worst VAR decision so far to rule out our goal, and in the same match possibly the first VAR penalty call to be overruled (in favour of cheating Wilf)

I'd also say the Brighton home performance under Freddie was exactly the same as the Leeds game - barring the fact that they had Neal Maupay and Leeds had Patrick Bamford. Absolutely bossed out of the first half in both games, followed by a 25-30 minute reaction (no doubt after a half time bollocking) before slacking off again.

Arteta's Arsenal have produced 1 very good performance so far - against United. I give him full credit for that despite the fact that this United side are an absolute pile of stinky shite (to use a Falkirk ! ). Emery was also producing those performances in certain matches (albeit fewer of them in the end)

A fan's natural reaction when a new manager is appointed is to look at close detail of small things that went well and amplify them to justify the change and convince yourself that it was all worth it and that we're on the right path

The reality for me is that we play in fits and starts. The first 25 minutes of the Norwich away game we looked great under Freddie. For 25 second half minutes at West Ham we did too, and the first 25 second half minutes against Brighton. In games under Dick it was the same and all of the stats are backing that up too

Its not Arteta's fault - he has inherited the same crock of shit his immediate predecessors did. If he does better than come 5th and miss on the CL places by 1 point at the end of next season, go one better in a cup final and produce a longer unbeaten run than 22 games, I'll eat every bit of humble pie that can be served up on a plate

[GoonerMuzz]

Taking the talk away from performances, who is better etc for a bit of a break if you were Arteta looking ahead to the summer what would be your absolute priorities in terms of reorganisation? It's likely he will have a very limited budget and it will be interesting whether or how much input he actually has on transfers.

Trying to reasonably put myself in his shoes I just cant come up with a way to rebuild on a budget likely to be lucky to hit £100M and I'm probably being over generous there.

Anyone got any ideas on how they would begin the reorganisation, as I said absolute priorities more than wishful thinking

[SteveO 35]

Taking the talk away from performances, who is better etc for a bit of a break if you were Arteta looking ahead to the summer what would be your absolute priorities in terms of reorganisation? It's likely he will have a very limited budget and it will be interesting whether or how much input he actually has on transfers.

Trying to reasonably put myself in his shoes I just cant come up with a way to rebuild on a budget likely to be lucky to hit £100M and I'm probably being over generous there.

Anyone got any ideas on how they would begin the reorganisation, as I said absolute priorities more than wishful thinking

Whichever way you look at it, the defence has to be the priority. Surely he has to see that? He would hope that Tierney and Bellerin are capable of staying fully fit, and together with Saliba joining he suddenly has '3 new signings' to play in a defence that have been missing. Personally I don't see Bellerin as the answer, with Tierney he showed some promise but its too soon to say and he needs a season. If we're being realistic I think he then needs to add one CB as his main signing in the window - David Luiz and Sokratis (whilst better lately) are not a long term solution and even if Holding does make it (questionable) we are still threadbare there. One would hope we get some funds for Mustafi even if its only 10-15m and I'd like to see that reinvested in a younger CB. I can't see us lashing out 40m-50m on the likes of Ake or Dunk so it very much depends on what our scouts can find overseas. i like Chambers but he has a long road back and isn't the answer on his own

I think he already has enough belief in Xhaka, Torreira and Guendouzi to suggest there is much change coming there.

What he will be absolutely craving is the goalscoring midfielder having worked with the likes of De Bruyne, Silva etc. I wonder if he thinks Leroy Sane could be that man? Not wanted by City - would come down to how he views him.

He could get some cash in through the door from the sales of Mkhitaryan, Elneny and perhaps some other fringe players - Nketiah and Mavropanos who I can't see making it here plus those other two must be able to get us in £30m+ surely? If not Sane, would Lemar be a possibility? We've certainly lost the ability to score goals regularly from midfield - Ozil has never been a big goalscorer. Probably Ramsey was the last 10 goal a a season type that we've had. The younger lads like Saka and Nelson might weigh in with a couple more but its an area where we are woefully short and I think he knows that

Up top I think it very much depends on whether Aubameyang and Lacazette stay, as Martinelli looks a class support act. If either of those two go I could see a player swap deal as the likes of James Rodriguez have been suggested in the past

Of course Uncle Stan might surprise us all but I doubt it

[GoonerMuzz]

I think you're right about the midfield of Xhaka, Torriera and Guendozi being here to stay I actually have a feeling if one goes it would be Guendozi if Arteta had his way, just a feeling that though. Funnily enough you mentioned Ramsey I've been thinking recently we've missed his goals from midfield.... I cant believe I've just said that.

Mustafi and Luiz are the two CBs I'd definitely offload as a priority, but I'm not sure you'd raise enough for even one decent replacement between them. Holding needs game time before he is assessed but he looked bad against Leeds so it is risky. Chambers will likely be out until October if not Christmas, ACLs are tricky bastards. Next I'd be looking to replace Bellerin/AMN RB is very weak right now, LB needs looking at too, Tierney is an unknown and Kolasinac is frankly crap, I'm almost wishing Monreal was still here.......The problem is the vast majority of the budget could easily be blown sorting the defense.

As you said our next position of need is a replacement of quality in either the Ozil role or an out and out CM, but that will be expensive.

I dont think we're too bad up front but the supply to them is woeful most of the time, if we keep all the forwards and can improve the quality of supply the goals will come, even from Laca.

All in all that is a hell of a rebuild required though and there is no way in hell that is happening in one or even two windows. I think Arteta wont be here long next season because this rebuilding job needs a certain type of Coach/Manager and I dont think he is it.