Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[Midz]

I just want to know where all these cones come from.

[OneBardGooner]

I just want to know where all these cones come from.

Ice Cream Vans.

[NickF]

And its the same with this Liverpool team. Just because they've got a ridiculous points total and have won 100 out of their last 101 games or whatever doesnt automatically make them the best. It is as much a reflection on the appalling standard of opponents they are facing every week as it is on their quality.

That is really bizarre reverse logic. If the standard of opponent they are playing every week is poor, then surely they are better than them?

[Gunnersaurus]

Sid, I agreed that emery had to go when he did so I am not smarting over that decision - what does irk me though, is how arteta is getting praised for having a worse record than emery had

Torreira has become unsettled since emery started his ridiculous policy of playing him as an attacking midfielder - in the last month he has been our best player but yet again he gets shafted as the Teflon swiss turd is preferred ahead of him. Sackable decision if it keeps happening imo

People in general were so invested in Arteta being the chosen one without having managed a club before & because he sat next to Pep that they will not see any fault in him because they don't want to admit they were wrong.

Take yesterday for example, we were awful in the first half, he got bailed out by two quick goals & got massive luck when they missed a sitter & hit the post, the 3rd & 4th goal in the last min completely changed the narrative of the game & now people act like it was a comfortable win & hes some sort of genius.

He's been out of his depth for me, come in & has pandered to all the names who got Wenger, Emery & Freddie removed from their jobs because hes too much of a coward to take them on, he will publicly call out players like Guendouzi, Ceballos or Pepe but make excuses for senior players like Ozil & Lacazette who could turn the dressing room against him, hes smart because he saw what that did for Emery and is not making the same mistake.

If you spend any time on Twitter you will vomit at the OTT love for Arteta, everything is positive even though in truth, apart from United at home, hes only been able to get 40 min performances out of the team in most games, his team selections are as bizarre as Emery but never gets called out on it, for example, Emery got slated for playing Torrera in an advance role (because he knew Ozil was crap) yet Arteta drops him for the last two games and no one mentions it, its sickening, what we have here is a fanbase who craved him because they saw Wenger in him & right now, hes giving them what they wanted, we now have to put up with the Spanish version of the shit version of Wenger until he is sacked because eventually he will be, you cant trust these players & hes pandering to them.

[augie]

Sid, I agreed that emery had to go when he did so I am not smarting over that decision - what does irk me though, is how arteta is getting praised for having a worse record than emery had

Torreira has become unsettled since emery started his ridiculous policy of playing him as an attacking midfielder - in the last month he has been our best player but yet again he gets shafted as the Teflon swiss turd is preferred ahead of him. Sackable decision if it keeps happening imo

People in general were so invested in Arteta being the chosen one without having managed a club before & because he sat next to Pep that they will not see any fault in him because they don't want to admit they were wrong.

Take yesterday for example, we were awful in the first half, he got bailed out by two quick goals & got massive luck when they missed a sitter & hit the post, the 3rd & 4th goal in the last min completely changed the narrative of the game & now people act like it was a comfortable win & hes some sort of genius.

He's been out of his depth for me, come in & has pandered to all the names who got Wenger, Emery & Freddie removed from their jobs because hes too much of a coward to take them on, he will publicly call out players like Guendouzi, Ceballos or Pepe but make excuses for senior players like Ozil & Lacazette who could turn the dressing room against him, hes smart because he saw what that did for Emery and is not making the same mistake.

If you spend any time on Twitter you will vomit at the OTT love for Arteta, everything is positive even though in truth, apart from United at home, hes only been able to get 40 min performances out of the team in most games, his team selections are as bizarre as Emery but never gets called out on it, for example, Emery got slated for playing Torrera in an advance role (because he knew Ozil was crap) yet Arteta drops him for the last two games and no one mentions it, its sickening, what we have here is a fanbase who craved him because they saw Wenger in him & right now, hes giving them what they wanted, we now have to put up with the Spanish version of the shit version of Wenger until he is sacked because eventually he will be, you cant trust these players & hes pandering to them.

A case in point

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/footb ... t-21514670

If I was to pick one thing out of arteta's reign thus far that worries me most, it is his cowering to the senior players in the squad cos they got emery sacked - xhaka and mustafi should not be anywhere near the squad yet they are starters under arteta, and ozil has had too many chances and simply delivers too little to justify selection, but he is a certain starter every week. Ask yourselves what this will mean in the future ……….. will it ensure that those 3 will be with us for at least another season, cos if so I am wondering if the absolute indifference from the fans to their selection, might change very quickly. If the plan is to move them on in the summer (which many seem to blindly think will be the case), at what price will that happen ? If torreira and guendouzi are frozen out by arteta, will they hang around for much longer ?

In my opinion arteta is gambling on the future (with players like Torreira and guendouzi), because he hasn't the balls to stand up to players that have been a liability for too long

[Gunnersaurus]

They will all be here next season so they can leave for free on their terms, Arteta knows this too which is why he's kissing their arse & bringing them back into the fold, he knows he cant get rid so is trying to make good with them & would rather cash in on players like Guendouzi because they are easier to handle, hes often talked about improving players, that's why he started with the clean slate nonsense so no one is frozen out, no one can say they watched the 7 games previous to yesterday and thought Ozil & Lacazette should start every week, dropped Martinelli & Torrera who have been two of his best players, he is weak.

He is playing a dangerous game, Leopards dont change their spots & they will all turn on him when the going gets tough, right now everything is shiny, new & not Emery, when the shit hits the fans their true colours will come out.

[Clash]

And its the same with this Liverpool team. Just because they've got a ridiculous points total and have won 100 out of their last 101 games or whatever doesnt automatically make them the best. It is as much a reflection on the appalling standard of opponents they are facing every week as it is on their quality.

That is really bizarre reverse logic. If the standard of opponent they are playing every week is poor, then surely they are better than them?

It doesn't automatically make them the best team of all time is what I meant there Nick!

I'm not disputing whether they have been better than the opponents they've had to play against in the last year or two, I'm just saying the current standard of opponent is dreadful.

[Clash]

Sid, I agreed that emery had to go when he did so I am not smarting over that decision - what does irk me though, is how arteta is getting praised for having a worse record than emery had

Torreira has become unsettled since emery started his ridiculous policy of playing him as an attacking midfielder - in the last month he has been our best player but yet again he gets shafted as the Teflon swiss turd is preferred ahead of him. Sackable decision if it keeps happening imo

People in general were so invested in Arteta being the chosen one without having managed a club before & because he sat next to Pep that they will not see any fault in him because they don't want to admit they were wrong.

Take yesterday for example, we were awful in the first half, he got bailed out by two quick goals & got massive luck when they missed a sitter & hit the post, the 3rd & 4th goal in the last min completely changed the narrative of the game & now people act like it was a comfortable win & hes some sort of genius.

He's been out of his depth for me, come in & has pandered to all the names who got Wenger, Emery & Freddie removed from their jobs because hes too much of a coward to take them on, he will publicly call out players like Guendouzi, Ceballos or Pepe but make excuses for senior players like Ozil & Lacazette who could turn the dressing room against him, hes smart because he saw what that did for Emery and is not making the same mistake.

If you spend any time on Twitter you will vomit at the OTT love for Arteta, everything is positive even though in truth, apart from United at home, hes only been able to get 40 min performances out of the team in most games, his team selections are as bizarre as Emery but never gets called out on it, for example, Emery got slated for playing Torrera in an advance role (because he knew Ozil was crap) yet Arteta drops him for the last two games and no one mentions it, its sickening, what we have here is a fanbase who craved him because they saw Wenger in him & right now, hes giving them what they wanted, we now have to put up with the Spanish version of the shit version of Wenger until he is sacked because eventually he will be, you cant trust these players & hes pandering to them.

A lot of interesting and well made points there.

[DB10GOONER]

Except most of that bit in red is not true is it.

Stupid Teeth didn't grind "for at least a decade being an assistant". He retired as a player in 2001 and was handed the Mainz managers job straight away. Then after he got them relegated and quit he was handed the Dortmund managers job straight away.

Moron-hio was as much a translator as he ever was an assistant coach to Bobby Robson.

Still never let the soccerball myth of Trampy Shipman and Moron-hio get in the way of the truth huh? It's like when people hail them as two of the all time greats but conveniently ignore the fact any success they had at the top level was dependent upon being handed insane funding to buy that success. Stupid Teeth is approaching 500 million spent on the victims alone ffs.

Neither are fit to be spoken of in the same sentence as Chapman or GG or Paisley or Shankley or Rednose. Or even Wenger in his first 10 years - before the lobotomy.

Ridiculous to deny Klopp's quality. Liverpool went from outsiders in England to the point where its viable to suggest they are the best team in Europe right now. Better than Barcelona, Madrid, Bayern, Juventus, PSG. You can buy players with money, but thats about it. For all the money Klopp has spent whats our excuse? PEA 50m, Lacazette 50m, Ozil 42m, Xhaka 34, Mustafi 35m, Pepe 72m, Saliba the 30m euro signing who we loaned out, Tierney. All that and still behind Sheffield United.

When Liverpool signed a defender from Southampton for 75m I thought it was mental. But they have made it work and are about to win the Premier League following last seasons Champions League success.

The money argument is turning bullshit. Sure it helps but every club is spending these days, even we are churning out massive signings. But where has it got us? We spent 100m on Pepe and Saliba last summer for almost no impact. Saliba on loan, and Pepe still adjusting.

Once 11 players walk onto the pitch money means nothing. When Liverpool players walk into the pitch they play with intensity to the point they have literally won over 95% of the games they have played this year. Where as our players walk into the pitch and just wally around and maybe they get a win.

Does Arteta posses the same level of intensity and character to drill that into our squad? I would say Arteta will offer a cheap imitation of Gaurdiola.

If we had sacked Wenger in 2015 and hired Klopp, then I dare say we might be 20 points clear this year. Because in 2015 we were better than Liverpool.

Literally nothing you've written there disproves my points that neither Stupid Teeth or Moron-hio served your fabled 10 years grinding as an assistant manager and both need huge financing to buy success.

Maybe tuck your Shipman worship away and look at the facts like this is the shittest weakest PL season in 20 years - a fact that all of football is commenting on and most accept as true. Then throw in the cheating by refs and VAR that has benefitted the murdering victims too. Ignoring those mitigating factors is the thinking of a fanboy ffs.

Whatever Arteta possesses or doesn't possess has nothing to do with Trampy.

Your in denial. For any talk about Liverpool taking advantage of a weak league, they are currently European champions and even made the final the year before. Its also going to be a record breaking year - points, wins, possibly even replicating our unbeaten season.

Denial is one of the reasons we turned shit. Wenger lived in denial for 10 years. Its stupid to deny the quality of rivals. Wenger denied the closing of the gap between us and Tottenham all the way up until they closed the gap and have made a habit out of finishing above us.

Its time to wake up. Were 10th in the league while Liverpool are European champions and league champions in waiting. Cheating refs and the VAR? Fuck me. And I thought Wenger was in denial blaming the length of the grass.

It's got nothing to do with denial - DB10G is absolutely spot on as far as I am concerned. The standard of football the PL and around the world is fucking dreadful. If there is any denial going on it is ignoring this glaringly obvious fact. We would laugh if Celtic were doing the same up in Scotland!

Of course Klopp has done a good job since he has been at Liverpool and obviously he is much better than Arteta and they are much better than we are etc. But how can anyone possibly talk about his Liverpool being the best ever and all that bullshit?

If the team that finished top of the 2nd division got 20 more points in a season the the 1st division champions does that make them a better team? Obviously not because the standard of the opposition they are is facing is much lower. And its the same with this Liverpool team. Just because they've got a ridiculous points total and have won 100 out of their last 101 games or whatever doesnt automatically make them the best. It is as much a reflection on the appalling standard of opponents they are facing every week as it is on their quality. The way the modern game has been shaped is another reason they are able to do this!

And yes I realise they are also European champions (and world champions ) but the same argument applies. The general standard around the world has dropped massively.

Money has ruined the game and modern football is shit!

Wasting your time Clash mate. These modern soccerball fans that have never been to a game believe the rubbish SlySports and social media tell them.

Are the victims the best team in the PL? Yes they are. Does that make them a great team? Absolutely not.

These "champions of europe" also won one of the shittest CL tournaments in living history. The scum were finalists ffs.

The Celtic comparrison is a good one. The victims are the English version of Celtic.

[DB10GOONER]

My issue with Arteta is why would anyone expect him to be this strong willed manager who can iron out all the deficiencies when as a player he possessed many of the traits that made us weak. He was part of the problems under Wenger, he was a captain we used to malign for not being a leader of Adams or Vieira quality.

Some managers get fast tracked because they were great players themselves who exemplified the highest standards. Zidane & Pep did a few years coaching the B teams before getting the top job. Lampard is Chelsea boss two years into his career as a manager. Contrast to Klopp and Mourinho, and every other top manager who was a shit player - these guys grinded for at least a decade being an assistant before managing a small team, before prepossessing higher and higher. Arteta has been fast tracked to managing a top club with jack shit experience. However unlike the other three mentioned, Arteta cannot borrow from his playing days to install excellence in the team, for the simple reason who was never a great player.

Except most of that bit in red is not true is it.

Stupid Teeth didn't grind "for at least a decade being an assistant". He retired as a player in 2001 and was handed the Mainz managers job straight away. Then after he got them relegated and quit he was handed the Dortmund managers job straight away.

Moron-hio was as much a translator as he ever was an assistant coach to Bobby Robson.

Still never let the soccerball myth of Trampy Shipman and Moron-hio get in the way of the truth huh? It's like when people hail them as two of the all time greats but conveniently ignore the fact any success they had at the top level was dependent upon being handed insane funding to buy that success. Stupid Teeth is approaching 500 million spent on the victims alone ffs.

Neither are fit to be spoken of in the same sentence as Chapman or GG or Paisley or Shankley or Rednose. Or even Wenger in his first 10 years - before the lobotomy.

Ridiculous to deny Klopp's quality. Liverpool went from outsiders in England to the point where its viable to suggest they are the best team in Europe right now. Better than Barcelona, Madrid, Bayern, Juventus, PSG. You can buy players with money, but thats about it. For all the money Klopp has spent whats our excuse? PEA 50m, Lacazette 50m, Ozil 42m, Xhaka 34, Mustafi 35m, Pepe 72m, Saliba the 30m euro signing who we loaned out, Tierney. All that and still behind Sheffield United.

When Liverpool signed a defender from Southampton for 75m I thought it was mental. But they have made it work and are about to win the Premier League following last seasons Champions League success.

The money argument is turning bullshit. Sure it helps but every club is spending these days, even we are churning out massive signings. But where has it got us? We spent 100m on Pepe and Saliba last summer for almost no impact. Saliba on loan, and Pepe still adjusting.

Once 11 players walk onto the pitch money means nothing. When Liverpool players walk into the pitch they play with intensity to the point they have literally won over 95% of the games they have played this year. Where as our players walk into the pitch and just wally around and maybe they get a win.

Does Arteta posses the same level of intensity and character to drill that into our squad? I would say Arteta will offer a cheap imitation of Gaurdiola.

If we had sacked Wenger in 2015 and hired Klopp, then I dare say we might be 20 points clear this year. Because in 2015 we were better than Liverpool.

Literally nothing you've written there disproves my points that neither Stupid Teeth or Moron-hio served your fabled 10 years grinding as an assistant manager and both need huge financing to buy success.

Maybe tuck your Shipman worship away and look at the facts like this is the shittest weakest PL season in 20 years - a fact that all of football is commenting on and most accept as true. Then throw in the cheating by refs and VAR that has benefitted the murdering victims too. Ignoring those mitigating factors is the thinking of a fanboy ffs.

Whatever Arteta possesses or doesn't possess has nothing to do with Trampy.

Your in denial. For any talk about Liverpool taking advantage of a weak league, they are currently European champions and even made the final the year before. Its also going to be a record breaking year - points, wins, possibly even replicating our unbeaten season.

Denial is one of the reasons we turned shit. Wenger lived in denial for 10 years. Its stupid to deny the quality of rivals. Wenger denied the closing of the gap between us and Tottenham all the way up until they closed the gap and have made a habit out of finishing above us.

Its time to wake up. Were 10th in the league while Liverpool are European champions and league champions in waiting. Cheating refs and the VAR? Fuck me. And I thought Wenger was in denial blaming the length of the grass.

Denial? Denial of what? That we are shit? Mate we've been shit for over a decade ffs. Well spotted.

There is no denying the murdering victims are the best team in that PL. Equally there is no denying that the PL is currently shit of a really poor standard. As is football in general nowadays. Money and player power and many other well documented factors have caused this.

Of the so called "big 6" teams we are shit, the mancs are shit and managed by a boy out of his depth, the scum have a past-it dinosaur hanging around their neck, citeh are totally inconsistent, and the chavs (like the mancs) have a boy manager out of his depth.

Equally there is no denying that the victims have all but been handed many of those games they've won with some of the worst most open cheating I've ever seen by refs and VAR. The reason people are bitching about that is because it is real. The fact that this dilutes Trampy's "legendary" status for modern soccerball fans and thus upsets them does not make it less real.

As for last seasons CL? The fact the scum made the final tells us all we need to know about the quality of modern football ffs.

[Nos89]

With 12 games left we have to play 6 teams below us and 6 teams above us. Given we've drawn enough games for two seasons we could realistically win 10 out of the last 12 games and finish top 4. That's what Arteta should be looking at.

[DB10GOONER]

With 12 games left we have to play 6 teams below us and 6 teams above us. Given we've drawn enough games for two seasons we could realistically win 10 out of the last 12 games and finish top 4. That's what Arteta should be looking at.

I don't think we will though mate. We are too inconsistent and struggle to play well for longer than one half per game. I see us drawing a few and losing a few. Anything can happen of course but I reckon we'll finish somewhere from 8th to 6th.

[OneBardGooner]

Fuckk all this bantering bing bong



I SAID!!!!

"Ice Cream Vans"

[Cannon]

we've conceded 0.8 goals per game since arteta arrived. under emery we were conceding around 1.5 goals per game.

it's obvious he's focused on improving us defensively. i wanted a manager that would come in and focus on defence and he's doing exactly that. ill be honest i thought it would take an allegri/simeone type manager to get our ducks in order at the back so im surprised an attacking manager has been able to do it. slowly the next steps are to build from the back and make our attack click but in order to do that he needs the right players, and unfortunately, that does not include the likes of ozil.

it will take time and new players and i think he deserves it.

[OneBardGooner]

Fuckk all this bantering bing bong



I SAID!!!!

"Ice Cream Vans"