Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[A11M11]

""My expectation and I'd imagine a few on here have got expectations of our Highbury era. Challenging and winning league titles, as opposed to scraping 4th and winning the FA Cup.""

Highbury era :- Periods of success interspersed with longer periods of Doldrums .
In my time
1956 to 1969 Doldrums
69 - 79 there and thereabouts.
79 -87 doldrums
87 -95 The Graham era = Success
96 - 2017 The Wenger era early success followed by interspersed F.A Cup wins and gradual decline
.2017 to date mediocrity

The Arsenal have always been a rise and fall club . When we win we tend to win for a period bud then slump in between . We are curently in a slump and whether we pull ourselves out , now or later, is a matter of time and money.
Don't give up.

[GoonerMuzz]

Sorry but as for Emery exercising the dross from the team, other than Ozil at the start of this season, the other worst culprit Xhaka played regularly under Emery in both seasons until his spat with the fans and was still brought back into the first team by Emery for the game before he was sacked. If the great Emery had been so convinced of who he needed to get rid of then why was he regularly playing one of the players generally seen by most on here as one of the worst to ever pull on our shirt.

Also although excised from the EPL squad Mustafi, the third of the shit bunch was still being sent out in nearly every match to make costly mistakes in the Cup competitions, hardly a ringing endorsement of his coaching judgement or ability.

Emery was a huge disappointment for me, I had genuine hopes when he came along but as with Sid and a few others from about Nov/Dec 18 I had decided I wasn't convinced by him and as far as I am concerned we got steadily worse after a relatively good start. From before that December, but especially afterwards the constant tinkering and haphazard play, the disjointed organisation and lack of understanding was plain to see, that is on the coach first and foremost.

There is no denying that the players individually and collectively were woeful at times but at the end of last season and the start of this it was plain to see that the squad was all at sea under his coaching and direction and no affordable change of playing personnel was going to improve that especially by mid season.

These problems can still also be seen under Arteta to a lesser degree and although the changes and improvements with his coaching are minimal until he is given the same opportunity that Emery was and until it ends up the same with situation of Xhaka, Ozil, Mustafi, AMN, Luiz, Laca and a few others still not gone from the club it is very harsh to judge him on other people's, Wenger especially, collection of poor players. Under Emery it seems for some at least it was all down to the players but under Arteta it is his coaching and using the same players that Emery had that is the problem.

But as I said above it's all just my personal opinion and viewpoint and I can understand that others (wrongly ) see it differently.

[DB10GOONER]

Sorry but as for Emery exercising the dross from the team, other than Ozil at the start of this season, the other worst culprit Xhaka played regularly under Emery in both seasons until his spat with the fans and was still brought back into the first team by Emery for the game before he was sacked. If the great Emery had been so convinced of who he needed to get rid of then why was he regularly playing one of the players generally seen by most on here as one of the worst to ever pull on our shirt.

Also although excised from the EPL squad Mustafi, the third of the shit bunch was still being sent out in nearly every match to make costly mistakes in the Cup competitions, hardly a ringing endorsement of his coaching judgement or ability.

Emery was a huge disappointment for me, I had genuine hopes when he came along but as with Sid and a few others from about Nov/Dec 18 I had decided I wasn't convinced by him and as far as I am concerned we got steadily worse after a relatively good start. From before that December, but especially afterwards the constant tinkering and haphazard play, the disjointed organisation and lack of understanding was plain to see, that is on the coach first and foremost.

There is no denying that the players individually and collectively were woeful at times but at the end of last season and the start of this it was plain to see that the squad was all at sea under his coaching and direction and no affordable change of playing personnel was going to improve that especially by mid season.

These problems can still also be seen under Arteta to a lesser degree and although the changes and improvements with his coaching are minimal until he is given the same opportunity that Emery was and until it ends up the same with situation of Xhaka, Ozil, Mustafi, AMN, Luiz, Laca and a few others still not gone from the club it is very harsh to judge him on other people's, Wenger especially, collection of poor players. Under Emery it seems for some at least it was all down to the players but under Arteta it is his coaching and using the same players that Emery had that is the problem.

But as I said above it's all just my personal opinion and viewpoint and I can understand that others (wrongly ) see it differently.

I agree fully with you there Muzz. I thought (and still do) that sid was being a twonk wanting him gone roughly 15 minutes into his first game and I said we needed to give Dick a chance - and we did. But we got steadily worse under him. Not sure how anyone can deny that.

[SteveO 35]

It barely matters anymore as we will never know how it would have gone if Dick's rebuilding job had been allowed to carry on, and in any event 99% of the fans got their way

Funny how the mind plays tricks now - people now saying its laughable that there was any sort of clear out under his stewardship. The season before he joined the players with the most Arsenal appearances that season were Xhaka (46), Bellerin (46), Cech (38), Monreal (36), Mustafi (36), Lacazette (33), Ozil (33), Koscielny (33), Iwobi (30), Wilshere (29), Kolasinac (28), Ramsey (28), Elneny (26), Welbeck (25), Holding (22).

Two of those players - Holding and Bellerin - were regulars in the 22 game unbeaten run before injuries ruled them out for the whole season

Eight of those players are no longer with the club

Four of those players were actively being managed towards the exit door - whatever the circumstances - Xhaka, Mustafi, Ozil and Lacazette. If Tierney had been fit then the other remaining player Kolasinac would have been a peripheral figure also being managed towards the exit door (especially with the emergence of Saka there too)

So, hate on Emery all you like, but FFS get the facts straight. The previous cock had spent £100m on two strikers in the preceeding year and left a whole crock of shit above on ridiculous contracts. The new bloke got £45m to spend on his first window. The fifteen most actively used players by Wenger only the year before were either gone by the start of this season, or shunted to the sidelines.....so criticise the tactics, results whatever you like.....but to suggest that deep surgery wasn't being made on the squad is frankly bollocks. If he'd had a Liverpool or City budget then some of these fucking wankers would have gone even sooner

[wilson2.0]

He cant simply look to imitate Pep because it wont work. He needs to realize the limitations at the club, which is something Wenger was unable to do, either because he was oblivious, or the more likely theory is Wenger was in a complete state of denial regarding the lack of quality. However, I fear Arteta will try to emulate Pep and his style, and thus fall into the trap Wenger was in - being in denial regarding the teams and his own abilities as a manager. Wenger thought his Arsenal were Barcelona equivalents. He called it belief, but it was delusion.

Wenger had blind spot and loyalty weakness to a host of players - Walcott, Eboue, Almunia, Diaby, Senderos, Rosicky, Denilson among few. These were the jokers Wenger thought was going to give him the league. No great manager keeps rubbish/perpetually injured players who routinely let him down. Arteta was badly let down by Luiz against Olimpiacos. A more competent showing by centre half and we would have won. How many times did Almunia let the team down with dodgy performances? Only after 175 appearances did Wenger show Almunia the door. How any more times will Luiz be allowed to be responsible for a European exit before the hammer comes down? If Arteta goes into next season with Luiz anywhere near the first team, I will be very alarmed. Ozil is another problem player who should be pushed out,

This club has suffered from a lack of accountability for over a decade. Whenever something goes wrong, no one is responsible. The habit of our best players running down contracts and us being forced to sell to rivals - no one was responsible when RVP was sold to United, just as when Nasri went to City. Its just something that happened and it wasnt dealt with.

[Nos89]

I think one of the problems we've got in the fanbase with Arteta is that he is a manager with the expectations of the Emirates era, given that he was club captain in our new era. My expectation and I'd imagine a few on here have got expectations of our Highbury era. Challenging and winning league titles, as opposed to scraping 4th and winning the FA Cup. I've enjoyed every cup win but I've enjoyed finishing top of the league more.

So basically entirely the same expectations everyone had for Emery - in fact worse for Emery because he was first in the seat post Wenger

Yes, it has to be the same.
I understand that football has peaks and troughs. It is what the club does during the rough times that sees it achieve. I'm not seeing how the club is building to get back to where we have been for the last 34 years.

[SteveO 35]

I think one of the problems we've got in the fanbase with Arteta is that he is a manager with the expectations of the Emirates era, given that he was club captain in our new era. My expectation and I'd imagine a few on here have got expectations of our Highbury era. Challenging and winning league titles, as opposed to scraping 4th and winning the FA Cup. I've enjoyed every cup win but I've enjoyed finishing top of the league more.

So basically entirely the same expectations everyone had for Emery - in fact worse for Emery because he was first in the seat post Wenger

Yes, it has to be the same.
I understand that football has peaks and troughs. It is what the club does during the rough times that sees it achieve. I'm not seeing how the club is building to get back to where we have been for the last 34 years.

Agreed - we had a manager who got us to within a point of the CL and runners up in our first European final for 13 years. If that's not deemed good enough then one can only assume Arteta has to achieve over and above that otherwise he's a failure (or a clown as some called Emery) right?

[Gunner Rob]

well he is doing amazing so far - already been nominated for manager of the month!
https://www.arsenal.com/news/arteta-nom ... ager-month

[SteveO 35]

well he is doing amazing so far - already been nominated for manager of the month!
https://www.arsenal.com/news/arteta-nom ... ager-month

Long may it continue - a month that started with that inspiring 0-0 draw at Burnley and ended up with us being knocked out of the Europa by Olmpiacos......let the magic live on

[Nos89]

I think one of the problems we've got in the fanbase with Arteta is that he is a manager with the expectations of the Emirates era, given that he was club captain in our new era. My expectation and I'd imagine a few on here have got expectations of our Highbury era. Challenging and winning league titles, as opposed to scraping 4th and winning the FA Cup. I've enjoyed every cup win but I've enjoyed finishing top of the league more.

So basically entirely the same expectations everyone had for Emery - in fact worse for Emery because he was first in the seat post Wenger

Yes, it has to be the same.
I understand that football has peaks and troughs. It is what the club does during the rough times that sees it achieve. I'm not seeing how the club is building to get back to where we have been for the last 34 years.

Agreed - we had a manager who got us to within a point of the CL and runners up in our first European final for 13 years. If that's not deemed good enough then one can only assume Arteta has to achieve over and above that otherwise he's a failure (or a clown as some called Emery) right?

It was unfortunate that as soon as he was christened with the nickname Dick, it was never, ever going to end well for him.
I'd still like to know what sequence of events triggered the implosion of the team at the end of last season.

[SteveO 35]

I think one of the problems we've got in the fanbase with Arteta is that he is a manager with the expectations of the Emirates era, given that he was club captain in our new era. My expectation and I'd imagine a few on here have got expectations of our Highbury era. Challenging and winning league titles, as opposed to scraping 4th and winning the FA Cup. I've enjoyed every cup win but I've enjoyed finishing top of the league more.

So basically entirely the same expectations everyone had for Emery - in fact worse for Emery because he was first in the seat post Wenger

Yes, it has to be the same.
I understand that football has peaks and troughs. It is what the club does during the rough times that sees it achieve. I'm not seeing how the club is building to get back to where we have been for the last 34 years.

Agreed - we had a manager who got us to within a point of the CL and runners up in our first European final for 13 years. If that's not deemed good enough then one can only assume Arteta has to achieve over and above that otherwise he's a failure (or a clown as some called Emery) right?

It was unfortunate that as soon as he was christened with the nickname Dick, it was never, ever going to end well for him.
I'd still like to know what sequence of events triggered the implosion of the team at the end of last season.

To me the answer was very clear - the same mental failings that these players have had for years when it comes to the crunch. Until the entire 'Wenger brigade' are weeded out it will remain that way, which is why I absolutely despair at seeing Ozil, Xhaka, Mustafi and Lacazette playing such a prominent role in the team. These guys will let the side down time and time again, like they did Wenger and like they did Emery. Anyone who thinks the super coach will somehow turn them into mentally strong warriors is deluding themselves

[clockender1]

I'll judge tets in October.

Hopefully by then the promising core of mari, saliba, saka, eddie , martinelli, chambers and leno, will have been added to with some steel at CM and the wengers-droos-but -hugely expensive-so-the-board-says-they-have-to-play will have been offloaded at a small a loss as possible, and we hold on to auba and torreira.

[augie]

Another shocking performance which defies the notion of improvements

Another disappointing team selection, and another situation where we are asking why in gods name has martinelli dropped down the pecking order How many shit performances have pepe, xhaka and ozil got to deliver before the manager shows enough balls to drop them ?

[mcdowell42]

I'll take a shocking performance every time if we win Augie

[Nos89]

Another shocking performance which defies the notion of improvements

Another disappointing team selection, and another situation where we are asking why in gods name has martinelli dropped down the pecking order How many shit performances have pepe, xhaka and ozil got to deliver before the manager shows enough balls to drop them ?

Shocking performance with another clean sheet and 3 points. Fucking disgraceful!!