Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[augie]

Sid, I agreed that emery had to go when he did so I am not smarting over that decision - what does irk me though, is how arteta is getting praised for having a worse record than emery had

Torreira has become unsettled since emery started his ridiculous policy of playing him as an attacking midfielder - in the last month he has been our best player but yet again he gets shafted as the Teflon swiss turd is preferred ahead of him. Sackable decision if it keeps happening imo

[goonersid]

Sid, I agreed that emery had to go when he did so I am not smarting over that decision - what does irk me though, is how arteta is getting praised for having a worse record than emery had

Torreira has become unsettled since emery started his ridiculous policy of playing him as an attacking midfielder - in the last month he has been our best player but yet again he gets shafted as the Teflon swiss turd is preferred ahead of him. Sackable decision if it keeps happening imo

Augie, Xhaka is shit I know that, Arteta having a worse record than Emery?
Too easy too simplify it to points accumulated, fact is mate we don’t look a pushover every week.
Making us harder to beat was always a priority, and he has done that.
I don’t agree with all his team selections, but as long as we are stabilising and restoring some pride?
A decent cup run would be a bonus and keep chipping away at the top 4 places , especially with citeh getting banned.

[augie]

Sid, I agreed that emery had to go when he did so I am not smarting over that decision - what does irk me though, is how arteta is getting praised for having a worse record than emery had

Torreira has become unsettled since emery started his ridiculous policy of playing him as an attacking midfielder - in the last month he has been our best player but yet again he gets shafted as the Teflon swiss turd is preferred ahead of him. Sackable decision if it keeps happening imo

Augie, Xhaka is shit I know that, Arteta having a worse record than Emery?
Too easy too simplify it to points accumulated, fact is mate we don’t look a pushover every week.
Making us harder to beat was always a priority, and he has done that.
I don’t agree with all his team selections, but as long as we are stabilising and restoring some pride?
A decent cup run would be a bonus and keep chipping away at the top 4 places , especially with citeh getting banned.

The "making us harder to beat" point would be all well and good if those games were against citeeh, the victims or some other dangerous attacking teams - his league opponents since he took over have included (in no particular order) palace, Sheffield utd, Bournemouth and burnley and hasn't won any of those games and hasn't even looked like winning them either. The "easy" fixture schedule he has faced since taking us over is reminiscent of what solskjaer had when he took over manure last season, and they made the change at that time to give him an easy start to build momentum - hasn't exactly worked out that way for us has it ?

[HerbertChapman]

What utter drivel!

Let's conveniently miss out the win over the Mancs.

Under the latter days of Emery how many of those games could you honestly see us drawing let alone winning?

The improvements are tangibly there, no matter how slight. The bloke has barely got his coat off and the criticism just keeps on coming.

This is 2020, not 2004 so people need to stop comparing the two. We aren't even the same club nowadays, let alone the same team.

[Clash]

What utter drivel!

Let's conveniently miss out the win over the Mancs.

Under the latter days of Emery how many of those games could you honestly see us drawing let alone winning?

The improvements are tangibly there, no matter how slight. The bloke has barely got his coat off and the criticism just keeps on coming.

This is 2020, not 2004 so people need to stop comparing the two. We aren't even the same club nowadays, let alone the same team.

You scoff at someone conveniently missing out Arteta's win over the Mancs there HC ... but then you conveniently limit Emery's spell in charge down to just his latter days .... which conveniently misses out his own win over the Mancs less than a year ago.

That 2-0 win in March 2019 came in a run of 10 successive home wins in the league season (which included wins over Spurs and Chelsea) so it shows we were able to win a lot of games under Emery at one stage. At the time I would have said there were signs of tangible improvement. It didn't last unfortunately but maybe it shows we all need to wait a bit longer before judging how well Arteta is or is not doing.

[DB10GOONER]

Btw, can I also say to all those who dismissed the possibility of having PV4 as our manager when emery was sacked, that he now has Nice just 5pts off champions league places in French league

PV4, would have been my preferred long term choice.
Worry now is that he will go to Citeh and thus probably never be an Arsenal manager!
On Arteta? I’ve seen more to be optomistic about than to be pessimistic! If ever a manager needed a summer transfer window, then it’s Arteta!
Klopp and the victims?
It’s all too painful!
However to try and belittle or undermine what they may possibly achieve this season, is simply sour grapes and senseless denial!
Like it or not, (and believe me I don’t) if they continue on this winning run and stay unbeaten, then it will surpass anything I am aware of anywhere in top level football and will blow our Invincibles out of the water!
VAR, shit league, bla bla bla!
It’s fucking awful having to witness this success, but to put it down? Is nothing short of embarrassing and tbh, quite fucking pathetic!
And I doubt there are many on here who loathe those c u n t s more than me!

Sid you are so full of shit mate. Just because you choose to do some silly devil's advocate persona thing on here and ignore the VAR cheating and referee cheating and the 500million Trampy has spent and the absolute fact this is the shittest weakest PL in 20 years does not mean those things aren't true.

A team that is based on 3 top attacking players and a top defender that has a one dimensional style of play winning a shit league is not fit to be compared to the 04 Invincibles and anyone that thinks it is has lost the plot mate. Pull your fucking head in sid ffs. I'd understand that horseshit coming from some of the soccerball fanboys on here but I thought you knew better ya dizzy cùnt.

[DB10GOONER]

My issue with Arteta is why would anyone expect him to be this strong willed manager who can iron out all the deficiencies when as a player he possessed many of the traits that made us weak. He was part of the problems under Wenger, he was a captain we used to malign for not being a leader of Adams or Vieira quality.

Some managers get fast tracked because they were great players themselves who exemplified the highest standards. Zidane & Pep did a few years coaching the B teams before getting the top job. Lampard is Chelsea boss two years into his career as a manager. Contrast to Klopp and Mourinho, and every other top manager who was a shit player - these guys grinded for at least a decade being an assistant before managing a small team, before prepossessing higher and higher. Arteta has been fast tracked to managing a top club with jack shit experience. However unlike the other three mentioned, Arteta cannot borrow from his playing days to install excellence in the team, for the simple reason who was never a great player.

Except most of that bit in red is not true is it.

Stupid Teeth didn't grind "for at least a decade being an assistant". He retired as a player in 2001 and was handed the Mainz managers job straight away. Then after he got them relegated and quit he was handed the Dortmund managers job straight away.

Moron-hio was as much a translator as he ever was an assistant coach to Bobby Robson.

Still never let the soccerball myth of Trampy Shipman and Moron-hio get in the way of the truth huh? It's like when people hail them as two of the all time greats but conveniently ignore the fact any success they had at the top level was dependent upon being handed insane funding to buy that success. Stupid Teeth is approaching 500 million spent on the victims alone ffs.

Neither are fit to be spoken of in the same sentence as Chapman or GG or Paisley or Shankley or Rednose. Or even Wenger in his first 10 years - before the lobotomy.

Ridiculous to deny Klopp's quality. Liverpool went from outsiders in England to the point where its viable to suggest they are the best team in Europe right now. Better than Barcelona, Madrid, Bayern, Juventus, PSG. You can buy players with money, but thats about it. For all the money Klopp has spent whats our excuse? PEA 50m, Lacazette 50m, Ozil 42m, Xhaka 34, Mustafi 35m, Pepe 72m, Saliba the 30m euro signing who we loaned out, Tierney. All that and still behind Sheffield United.

When Liverpool signed a defender from Southampton for 75m I thought it was mental. But they have made it work and are about to win the Premier League following last seasons Champions League success.

The money argument is turning bullshit. Sure it helps but every club is spending these days, even we are churning out massive signings. But where has it got us? We spent 100m on Pepe and Saliba last summer for almost no impact. Saliba on loan, and Pepe still adjusting.

Once 11 players walk onto the pitch money means nothing. When Liverpool players walk into the pitch they play with intensity to the point they have literally won over 95% of the games they have played this year. Where as our players walk into the pitch and just wally around and maybe they get a win.

Does Arteta posses the same level of intensity and character to drill that into our squad? I would say Arteta will offer a cheap imitation of Gaurdiola.

If we had sacked Wenger in 2015 and hired Klopp, then I dare say we might be 20 points clear this year. Because in 2015 we were better than Liverpool.

Literally nothing you've written there disproves my points that neither Stupid Teeth or Moron-hio served your fabled 10 years grinding as an assistant manager and both need huge financing to buy success.

Maybe tuck your Shipman worship away and look at the facts like this is the shittest weakest PL season in 20 years - a fact that all of football is commenting on and most accept as true. Then throw in the cheating by refs and VAR that has benefitted the murdering victims too. Ignoring those mitigating factors is the thinking of a fanboy ffs.

Whatever Arteta possesses or doesn't possess has nothing to do with Trampy.

[wilson2.0]

My issue with Arteta is why would anyone expect him to be this strong willed manager who can iron out all the deficiencies when as a player he possessed many of the traits that made us weak. He was part of the problems under Wenger, he was a captain we used to malign for not being a leader of Adams or Vieira quality.

Some managers get fast tracked because they were great players themselves who exemplified the highest standards. Zidane & Pep did a few years coaching the B teams before getting the top job. Lampard is Chelsea boss two years into his career as a manager. Contrast to Klopp and Mourinho, and every other top manager who was a shit player - these guys grinded for at least a decade being an assistant before managing a small team, before prepossessing higher and higher. Arteta has been fast tracked to managing a top club with jack shit experience. However unlike the other three mentioned, Arteta cannot borrow from his playing days to install excellence in the team, for the simple reason who was never a great player.

Except most of that bit in red is not true is it.

Stupid Teeth didn't grind "for at least a decade being an assistant". He retired as a player in 2001 and was handed the Mainz managers job straight away. Then after he got them relegated and quit he was handed the Dortmund managers job straight away.

Moron-hio was as much a translator as he ever was an assistant coach to Bobby Robson.

Still never let the soccerball myth of Trampy Shipman and Moron-hio get in the way of the truth huh? It's like when people hail them as two of the all time greats but conveniently ignore the fact any success they had at the top level was dependent upon being handed insane funding to buy that success. Stupid Teeth is approaching 500 million spent on the victims alone ffs.

Neither are fit to be spoken of in the same sentence as Chapman or GG or Paisley or Shankley or Rednose. Or even Wenger in his first 10 years - before the lobotomy.

Ridiculous to deny Klopp's quality. Liverpool went from outsiders in England to the point where its viable to suggest they are the best team in Europe right now. Better than Barcelona, Madrid, Bayern, Juventus, PSG. You can buy players with money, but thats about it. For all the money Klopp has spent whats our excuse? PEA 50m, Lacazette 50m, Ozil 42m, Xhaka 34, Mustafi 35m, Pepe 72m, Saliba the 30m euro signing who we loaned out, Tierney. All that and still behind Sheffield United.

When Liverpool signed a defender from Southampton for 75m I thought it was mental. But they have made it work and are about to win the Premier League following last seasons Champions League success.

The money argument is turning bullshit. Sure it helps but every club is spending these days, even we are churning out massive signings. But where has it got us? We spent 100m on Pepe and Saliba last summer for almost no impact. Saliba on loan, and Pepe still adjusting.

Once 11 players walk onto the pitch money means nothing. When Liverpool players walk into the pitch they play with intensity to the point they have literally won over 95% of the games they have played this year. Where as our players walk into the pitch and just wally around and maybe they get a win.

Does Arteta posses the same level of intensity and character to drill that into our squad? I would say Arteta will offer a cheap imitation of Gaurdiola.

If we had sacked Wenger in 2015 and hired Klopp, then I dare say we might be 20 points clear this year. Because in 2015 we were better than Liverpool.

Literally nothing you've written there disproves my points that neither Stupid Teeth or Moron-hio served your fabled 10 years grinding as an assistant manager and both need huge financing to buy success.

Maybe tuck your Shipman worship away and look at the facts like this is the shittest weakest PL season in 20 years - a fact that all of football is commenting on and most accept as true. Then throw in the cheating by refs and VAR that has benefitted the murdering victims too. Ignoring those mitigating factors is the thinking of a fanboy ffs.

Whatever Arteta possesses or doesn't possess has nothing to do with Trampy.

Your in denial. For any talk about Liverpool taking advantage of a weak league, they are currently European champions and even made the final the year before. Its also going to be a record breaking year - points, wins, possibly even replicating our unbeaten season.

Denial is one of the reasons we turned shit. Wenger lived in denial for 10 years. Its stupid to deny the quality of rivals. Wenger denied the closing of the gap between us and Tottenham all the way up until they closed the gap and have made a habit out of finishing above us.

Its time to wake up. Were 10th in the league while Liverpool are European champions and league champions in waiting. Cheating refs and the VAR? Fuck me. And I thought Wenger was in denial blaming the length of the grass.

[HerbertChapman]

What utter drivel!

Let's conveniently miss out the win over the Mancs.

Under the latter days of Emery how many of those games could you honestly see us drawing let alone winning?

The improvements are tangibly there, no matter how slight. The bloke has barely got his coat off and the criticism just keeps on coming.

This is 2020, not 2004 so people need to stop comparing the two. We aren't even the same club nowadays, let alone the same team.

You scoff at someone conveniently missing out Arteta's win over the Mancs there HC ... but then you conveniently limit Emery's spell in charge down to just his latter days .... which conveniently misses out his own win over the Mancs less than a year ago.

That 2-0 win in March 2019 came in a run of 10 successive home wins in the league season (which included wins over Spurs and Chelsea) so it shows we were able to win a lot of games under Emery at one stage. At the time I would have said there were signs of tangible improvement. It didn't last unfortunately but maybe it shows we all need to wait a bit longer before judging how well Arteta is or is not doing.

Nah Clash I didn't conveniently miss anything out mate. I was directly countering Augie's choice of games. Your last point is exactly what I mean though. I'm no Arteta fanboy by any means. I just believe that there are enough green shoots of team improvement at this early stage of his tenure not to be so negative and dismissive.

[IW8Goalmachine]

Let not over exaggerate the win over the Mancs ffs

They are in an absolute mess too

[Clash]

My issue with Arteta is why would anyone expect him to be this strong willed manager who can iron out all the deficiencies when as a player he possessed many of the traits that made us weak. He was part of the problems under Wenger, he was a captain we used to malign for not being a leader of Adams or Vieira quality.

Some managers get fast tracked because they were great players themselves who exemplified the highest standards. Zidane & Pep did a few years coaching the B teams before getting the top job. Lampard is Chelsea boss two years into his career as a manager. Contrast to Klopp and Mourinho, and every other top manager who was a shit player - these guys grinded for at least a decade being an assistant before managing a small team, before prepossessing higher and higher. Arteta has been fast tracked to managing a top club with jack shit experience. However unlike the other three mentioned, Arteta cannot borrow from his playing days to install excellence in the team, for the simple reason who was never a great player.

Except most of that bit in red is not true is it.

Stupid Teeth didn't grind "for at least a decade being an assistant". He retired as a player in 2001 and was handed the Mainz managers job straight away. Then after he got them relegated and quit he was handed the Dortmund managers job straight away.

Moron-hio was as much a translator as he ever was an assistant coach to Bobby Robson.

Still never let the soccerball myth of Trampy Shipman and Moron-hio get in the way of the truth huh? It's like when people hail them as two of the all time greats but conveniently ignore the fact any success they had at the top level was dependent upon being handed insane funding to buy that success. Stupid Teeth is approaching 500 million spent on the victims alone ffs.

Neither are fit to be spoken of in the same sentence as Chapman or GG or Paisley or Shankley or Rednose. Or even Wenger in his first 10 years - before the lobotomy.

Ridiculous to deny Klopp's quality. Liverpool went from outsiders in England to the point where its viable to suggest they are the best team in Europe right now. Better than Barcelona, Madrid, Bayern, Juventus, PSG. You can buy players with money, but thats about it. For all the money Klopp has spent whats our excuse? PEA 50m, Lacazette 50m, Ozil 42m, Xhaka 34, Mustafi 35m, Pepe 72m, Saliba the 30m euro signing who we loaned out, Tierney. All that and still behind Sheffield United.

When Liverpool signed a defender from Southampton for 75m I thought it was mental. But they have made it work and are about to win the Premier League following last seasons Champions League success.

The money argument is turning bullshit. Sure it helps but every club is spending these days, even we are churning out massive signings. But where has it got us? We spent 100m on Pepe and Saliba last summer for almost no impact. Saliba on loan, and Pepe still adjusting.

Once 11 players walk onto the pitch money means nothing. When Liverpool players walk into the pitch they play with intensity to the point they have literally won over 95% of the games they have played this year. Where as our players walk into the pitch and just wally around and maybe they get a win.

Does Arteta posses the same level of intensity and character to drill that into our squad? I would say Arteta will offer a cheap imitation of Gaurdiola.

If we had sacked Wenger in 2015 and hired Klopp, then I dare say we might be 20 points clear this year. Because in 2015 we were better than Liverpool.

Literally nothing you've written there disproves my points that neither Stupid Teeth or Moron-hio served your fabled 10 years grinding as an assistant manager and both need huge financing to buy success.

Maybe tuck your Shipman worship away and look at the facts like this is the shittest weakest PL season in 20 years - a fact that all of football is commenting on and most accept as true. Then throw in the cheating by refs and VAR that has benefitted the murdering victims too. Ignoring those mitigating factors is the thinking of a fanboy ffs.

Whatever Arteta possesses or doesn't possess has nothing to do with Trampy.

Your in denial. For any talk about Liverpool taking advantage of a weak league, they are currently European champions and even made the final the year before. Its also going to be a record breaking year - points, wins, possibly even replicating our unbeaten season.

Denial is one of the reasons we turned shit. Wenger lived in denial for 10 years. Its stupid to deny the quality of rivals. Wenger denied the closing of the gap between us and Tottenham all the way up until they closed the gap and have made a habit out of finishing above us.

Its time to wake up. Were 10th in the league while Liverpool are European champions and league champions in waiting. Cheating refs and the VAR? Fuck me. And I thought Wenger was in denial blaming the length of the grass.

It's got nothing to do with denial - DB10G is absolutely spot on as far as I am concerned. The standard of football the PL and around the world is fucking dreadful. If there is any denial going on it is ignoring this glaringly obvious fact. We would laugh if Celtic were doing the same up in Scotland!

Of course Klopp has done a good job since he has been at Liverpool and obviously he is much better than Arteta and they are much better than we are etc. But how can anyone possibly talk about his Liverpool being the best ever and all that bullshit?

If the team that finished top of the 2nd division got 20 more points in a season the the 1st division champions does that make them a better team? Obviously not because the standard of the opposition they are is facing is much lower. And its the same with this Liverpool team. Just because they've got a ridiculous points total and have won 100 out of their last 101 games or whatever doesnt automatically make them the best. It is as much a reflection on the appalling standard of opponents they are facing every week as it is on their quality. The way the modern game has been shaped is another reason they are able to do this!

And yes I realise they are also European champions (and world champions ) but the same argument applies. The general standard around the world has dropped massively.

Money has ruined the game and modern football is shit!

[Clash]

What utter drivel!

Let's conveniently miss out the win over the Mancs.

Under the latter days of Emery how many of those games could you honestly see us drawing let alone winning?

The improvements are tangibly there, no matter how slight. The bloke has barely got his coat off and the criticism just keeps on coming.

This is 2020, not 2004 so people need to stop comparing the two. We aren't even the same club nowadays, let alone the same team.

You scoff at someone conveniently missing out Arteta's win over the Mancs there HC ... but then you conveniently limit Emery's spell in charge down to just his latter days .... which conveniently misses out his own win over the Mancs less than a year ago.

That 2-0 win in March 2019 came in a run of 10 successive home wins in the league season (which included wins over Spurs and Chelsea) so it shows we were able to win a lot of games under Emery at one stage. At the time I would have said there were signs of tangible improvement. It didn't last unfortunately but maybe it shows we all need to wait a bit longer before judging how well Arteta is or is not doing.

Nah Clash I didn't conveniently miss anything out mate. I was directly countering Augie's choice of games. Your last point is exactly what I mean though. I'm no Arteta fanboy by any means. I just believe that there are enough green shoots of team improvement at this early stage of his tenure not to be so negative and dismissive.

Fair enough mate

[Nos89]

It is interesting to read that during his time as a player and captain of the club, he was coaching the U-16's and lower age groups which included players like Nelson, Willock and AMN. It indicates that he was more interested in the development and coaching side of the game at that point in his career. So, the mythical 10 years as an assistant wasn't needed as he started before his career was over. However, putting cones out for Guardiola and with a team that has dominated the league for 3 seasons, probably gains you more experience than put cones out for a championship club for 10 years.

[OneBardGooner]

Let not over exaggerate the win over the Mancs ffs

They are in an absolute mess too

Yeaaaahhhh! But it was still "Schweeeeeeeet!!!"

[OneBardGooner]

It is interesting to read that during his time as a player and captain of the club, he was coaching the U-16's and lower age groups which included players like Nelson, Willock and AMN. It indicates that he was more interested in the development and coaching side of the game at that point in his career. So, the mythical 10 years as an assistant wasn't needed as he started before his career was over. However, putting cones out for Guardiola and with a team that has dominated the league for 3 seasons, probably gains you more experience than put cones out for a championship club for 10 years.

Thing is some players - besides being players - are also born to be managers - some good, some bad...and I happen to think that Arteta is going to be a Bloomin' Good Manager...


Arteta He's Got Great Hair
Maureen's a Cuntt

Sooo Ohhh There!