Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

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Will he ?

Have a statue erected after 30 glorious years service?
9
9%
Be a success, pick up a few trophies and put the club back on an even keel?
27
27%
Be a moderate success, before handing over to a more high profile successor?
20
20%
Be an utter fucking disaster?
44
44%
 
Total votes: 100

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augie
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by augie »

northbank123 wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:47 pm
Still far from convinced and next few games (including the rest of this one) will give a massive indicator as to where we will be starting next season from.

However, no Bellerin starting again, Guendouzi (who I actually rate as a young player) not in the squad again, seems to have reached a position on Ozil and stuck to it. 3 at the back again. This is the sort of consistency which he needs to start showing in his approach if he is going to have a chance of making this work.


We won today, but it has done nothing to convince me that he knows what he is doing - soares nowhere near ready, kolasniac is fcuking useless (sokratis and holding should be onto their agents at this stage), xhaka contributes nothing, and his subbing of tierney was bizarre

nut flush gooner
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by nut flush gooner »

augie wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:41 pm
northbank123 wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:47 pm
Still far from convinced and next few games (including the rest of this one) will give a massive indicator as to where we will be starting next season from.

However, no Bellerin starting again, Guendouzi (who I actually rate as a young player) not in the squad again, seems to have reached a position on Ozil and stuck to it. 3 at the back again. This is the sort of consistency which he needs to start showing in his approach if he is going to have a chance of making this work.


We won today, but it has done nothing to convince me that he knows what he is doing - soares nowhere near ready, kolasniac is fcuking useless (sokratis and holding should be onto their agents at this stage), xhaka contributes nothing, and his subbing of tierney was bizarre
This isn't Arteta's team, you have to give him credit for not starting bellend who has been atrocious for a few years now. There was loads of guts and determination, sublime finishes and a lot of positives to take away from the game. Yeah, there's still a lot of work to do, but to dismiss Arteta so soon into his tenure is not only unfair its wrong. He needs 2 seasons at least.

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augie
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by augie »

As soon as emery was fcuked out after 18 months in charge, the whole "give a new manager two seasons to judge him" plan went up in smoke, so I dont want to hear that 2 year thing about arteta. Emery took over a club that was the very definition of a shitfest, cos wenger left the club in as bad a shape as I can remember in my lifetime - if you doubt that analysis, just scroll back through the opinions of posters on here who for 2 years who were horrified at the mess the next manager would face.
Before wenger was even sacked I offered the opinion that the next manager didnt need to be the next big manager for the club, and that the biggest part of his job would be to get rid of the shit players before recruiting new one's - from that aspect of his job, emery gets an A+ for me but other aspects let him down and led to his dismissal.

Anyway I am digressing here - what I am basically saying is that people who felt 18 months was long enough for emery to turn things around, should apply the same demands on arteta, and not give him any special treatment

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by DB10GOONER »

augie wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:01 pm
As soon as emery was fcuked out after 18 months in charge, the whole "give a new manager two seasons to judge him" plan went up in smoke, so I dont want to hear that 2 year thing about arteta. Emery took over a club that was the very definition of a shitfest, cos wenger left the club in as bad a shape as I can remember in my lifetime - if you doubt that analysis, just scroll back through the opinions of posters on here who for 2 years who were horrified at the mess the next manager would face.
Before wenger was even sacked I offered the opinion that the next manager didnt need to be the next big manager for the club, and that the biggest part of his job would be to get rid of the shit players before recruiting new one's - from that aspect of his job, emery gets an A+ for me but other aspects let him down and led to his dismissal.

Anyway I am digressing here - what I am basically saying is that people who felt 18 months was long enough for emery to turn things around, should apply the same demands on arteta, and not give him any special treatment
For me Emery got two years IF there was steady improvement. There wasn't. We went backward under him during and particularly after the first 12 months. He spent the last 6 months hanging on by a thread. And we got worse and worse. So he did not deserve the full 18. A shame because he was a likeable guy but there you go that's life.

Arteta is the same. Give him 2 years nominally and if after 18 months it is very obvious we have gotten worse, then fuck him bang sack him too.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by nut flush gooner »

augie wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:01 pm
As soon as emery was fcuked out after 18 months in charge, the whole "give a new manager two seasons to judge him" plan went up in smoke, so I dont want to hear that 2 year thing about arteta. Emery took over a club that was the very definition of a shitfest, cos wenger left the club in as bad a shape as I can remember in my lifetime - if you doubt that analysis, just scroll back through the opinions of posters on here who for 2 years who were horrified at the mess the next manager would face.
Before wenger was even sacked I offered the opinion that the next manager didnt need to be the next big manager for the club, and that the biggest part of his job would be to get rid of the shit players before recruiting new one's - from that aspect of his job, emery gets an A+ for me but other aspects let him down and led to his dismissal.

Anyway I am digressing here - what I am basically saying is that people who felt 18 months was long enough for emery to turn things around, should apply the same demands on arteta, and not give him any special treatment
Two years isn't special treatment. If we are going to fire managers without giving them a chance to have their teams playing we will end up like the Spuds of the last 3 decades.

Arteta has had some wobbly games no doubt. But the question is with some of the shit players he has inherited, has he improved their performances and in-game management. The answer to that with the exception of Olympiakos and Brighton away is an emphatic yes.

The players are totally onside, you could see that in the second half yesterday. If Auba is about to leave for Spain, you would never have thought so with his work rate. Eddie worked his socks off too and Saka, boy have we got a star in the making there. This season was a write off before Christmas, so let's move onto next season and see how things pan out.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by rodders999 »

Augie take those Unai Emery posters down off your bedroom wall man and put back up the Belinda Carlisle ones :lol:

:wink:

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augie
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by augie »

rodders999 wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:59 am
Augie take those Unai Emery posters down off your bedroom wall man and put back up the Belinda Carlisle ones :lol:

:wink:



I remember when she had the hit song after years in the wilderness, there were stories that she was about to do a naked photoshoot to earn some much needed coin - she wouldnt be high on my list, but I could probably bang one out to a naked photo of her 8) :oops: :oops: :wink:

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augie
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by augie »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:52 pm
augie wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:01 pm
As soon as emery was fcuked out after 18 months in charge, the whole "give a new manager two seasons to judge him" plan went up in smoke, so I dont want to hear that 2 year thing about arteta. Emery took over a club that was the very definition of a shitfest, cos wenger left the club in as bad a shape as I can remember in my lifetime - if you doubt that analysis, just scroll back through the opinions of posters on here who for 2 years who were horrified at the mess the next manager would face.
Before wenger was even sacked I offered the opinion that the next manager didnt need to be the next big manager for the club, and that the biggest part of his job would be to get rid of the shit players before recruiting new one's - from that aspect of his job, emery gets an A+ for me but other aspects let him down and led to his dismissal.

Anyway I am digressing here - what I am basically saying is that people who felt 18 months was long enough for emery to turn things around, should apply the same demands on arteta, and not give him any special treatment
For me Emery got two years IF there was steady improvement. There wasn't. We went backward under him during and particularly after the first 12 months. He spent the last 6 months hanging on by a thread. And we got worse and worse. So he did not deserve the full 18. A shame because he was a likeable guy but there you go that's life.

Arteta is the same. Give him 2 years nominally and if after 18 months it is very obvious we have gotten worse, then fuck him bang sack him too.



That's the point I was making - arteta shouldnt automatically get 2 years to turn things around unless his performances merit it. Many will disagree but I dont think that he has done enough yet to earn longer, but he still has another 12 months to go before the 18 months period that emery got is up.

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augie
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by augie »

nut flush gooner wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:09 am
augie wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:01 pm
As soon as emery was fcuked out after 18 months in charge, the whole "give a new manager two seasons to judge him" plan went up in smoke, so I dont want to hear that 2 year thing about arteta. Emery took over a club that was the very definition of a shitfest, cos wenger left the club in as bad a shape as I can remember in my lifetime - if you doubt that analysis, just scroll back through the opinions of posters on here who for 2 years who were horrified at the mess the next manager would face.
Before wenger was even sacked I offered the opinion that the next manager didnt need to be the next big manager for the club, and that the biggest part of his job would be to get rid of the shit players before recruiting new one's - from that aspect of his job, emery gets an A+ for me but other aspects let him down and led to his dismissal.

Anyway I am digressing here - what I am basically saying is that people who felt 18 months was long enough for emery to turn things around, should apply the same demands on arteta, and not give him any special treatment
Two years isn't special treatment. If we are going to fire managers without giving them a chance to have their teams playing we will end up like the Spuds of the last 3 decades.

Arteta has had some wobbly games no doubt. But the question is with some of the shit players he has inherited, has he improved their performances and in-game management. The answer to that with the exception of Olympiakos and Brighton away is an emphatic yes.

The players are totally onside, you could see that in the second half yesterday. If Auba is about to leave for Spain, you would never have thought so with his work rate. Eddie worked his socks off too and Saka, boy have we got a star in the making there. This season was a write off before Christmas, so let's move onto next season and see how things pan out.



Let me address those points one by one -

1. Emery got 18 months - if it is ok to judge him and fire him after 18 months, then those same expectations should be placed on arteta and any future manager for that matter. Did emery have enough of a chance to prove himself ? I can understand why people felt that we had started to slide backwards and that he had to go, although personally I would have granted him the rest of this season before making that call.

2. I'll be honest and say that if sacking a manager, any manager, after 18 months makes us look like the spuds (or any other team) I really dont care. My interest is that the club do everything possible to make the right signings and appointments, but to also be brave enough to accept when the signing or appointment hasnt worked out, and then pull the trigger without allowing it to drag on for years. My grievance with the sacking of emery isnt with the club cos I can understand why they did it - my grievance is with the fans who preached about the need for patience when emery was appointed, but then threw all that out the window at the first sign of trouble :roll: Did old whiskey nose or horse teeth instantly make their clubs challengers after their appointments ? No they didnt, but yet our fans seem to expect it.

3. Emery and arteta were not as fortunate as wenger was cos he left them with a squad full of sub-standard shit players, overpaid mercenaries, demotivated players, and a club that had lost sight of how to behave like a big club - these managers (and any future appointments) should be given time based on what quality they took over, but the fans decided that 18 months is enough time so that must apply to peps cone man as much as it did for emery. It should also be noted that the squad emery left behind is a much better squad than the one he took over - Leno is the best keeper we have had for years, Tierney could be the best left full we have had for a long time, Torreira is/can be a real quality defensive midfielder for us, guendouzi I still believe will be a great midfielder (hopefully for us not some other club) and martinelli and saka are the best young prospects (by a distance) that we have had for years. It doesnt matter to me if you want to give the credit for those signings to emery or mislintat, because the point I am making is that arteta has had players of that quality to build around from Day One, and emery did not

4. It is truly amazing how current form can blinker fans from seeing the bigger picture - our only shit performances were against olympiakos and brighton ?? Are you kidding me ? Bournemouth away, sheffield utd at home, palace away, burnley away, leeds at home are all examples of absolute dogshit performances against average or poor sides, so dunno how you can claim all bar 2 games seen much improved performances :?

We are where we are by our own making, and even though 100% of our fanbase wants more, I still believe that arteta is getting more leeway simply because he used to play for the club, and he came to us after a spell working (putting out the cones :wink: ) for one of the top coaches in the world right now.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by SteveO 35 »

In my opinion Emery was a victim of his own early success

I can't be arsed but I remember well that many of the posters on here who took delight in his sacking, were also on here in the late Wenger days acknowledging that whoever the poor incoming manager was would need years to turn around the decline and would probably settle for being mid-table for a couple of years if it meant clearing out all the shit and changing the whole mindset of the club. People forget that now because the end of season collapse was so disappointing, as was the Europa League final. Putting aside the millennial mongies, most of us with hair in funny places knew that the 'top four' was way out of reach in Emery's first season, but he got us close.......and people seem unable to admit it now, but a lot closer than anyone thought.

As I say, when he left the club we were 8th - the same position we were in before yesterday's game where everyone says we've made such a massive improvement. If Sheffield United beat Burnley today we'll be back in 8th.

People say Emery was taking us backwards but that's purely because he overachieved in his first six months in the job. There were so many wankers needed to be cleared out of this club - Cech, Elneny, Mkhitaryan, Ozil, Ospina, Iwobi, Mustafi, Chambers, Welbeck, Jenkinson, Xhaka. Throw in the fact Cazorla left, Mertesacker retired, Ramsey was being allowed to walk away for nothing, Koscielny and Monreal nearing the end, and one starts to see the extent of the project. Get rid of all that lot, and spend £40m transforming a bunch of flaky losers into title contenders or even CL qualifiers, in less than 2 seasons? Do me a favour. Klopp wouldn't achieve it, nor would Pep. Chuck in the fact that he also lost Bellerin and Holding for virtually a year each and you see the size of the task

He had to make some stop gap signings like Lichsteiner who was utter shite because of the total lack of budget but if you look at the emergence of Saka and the signings of Guendouzi, Torreira, Leno and Martinelli on balance I thought there were more positive additions than shite ones. Saliba - we will find out. Mustafi, Xhaka and Ozil were definitely on their way out. From the list above that would pretty much be all the overrated, overpaid Wenger shite out of the club. If we'd finished 8th and had a chance to face a new season with all those c.unts gone, and a few new faces to add to some of those already brought in, I think we'd have done ok. Personally, I think the decline of the last few matches was entirely down to the fact that people like Xhaka were being actively managed out of the club - if some of the other players didn't like it, then tough fuck. You don't get to pick your boss in any walk of life

Anyway, all academic now as we have chosen our manager. He has inherited a better position than Emery did as half of the rebuild was already done. Its up to him now to ensure there's an improvement

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by augie »

Explain how the limp dicked performances against brighton and citeeh (no shots on target), and barely beating a sinking sheffield united team, fits in with your bullshi.t theory than my good man :rubchin: I am fed up with managers looking to blame the fans all the time, when maybe he should look at the character of his pussified players :evil: :evil:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... gence.html

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by Clash »

augie wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:11 am
Explain how the limp dicked performances against brighton and citeeh (no shots on target), and barely beating a sinking sheffield united team, fits in with your bullshi.t theory than my good man :rubchin: I am fed up with managers looking to blame the fans all the time, when maybe he should look at the character of his pussified players :evil: :evil:


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... gence.html
:roll:

That is a Wenger quote, or the quote of a Wenger disciple, if ever I've heard one.


Image

:banghead:

Clash
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by Clash »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:24 am
In my opinion Emery was a victim of his own early success

I can't be arsed but I remember well that many of the posters on here who took delight in his sacking, were also on here in the late Wenger days acknowledging that whoever the poor incoming manager was would need years to turn around the decline and would probably settle for being mid-table for a couple of years if it meant clearing out all the shit and changing the whole mindset of the club. People forget that now because the end of season collapse was so disappointing, as was the Europa League final. Putting aside the millennial mongies, most of us with hair in funny places knew that the 'top four' was way out of reach in Emery's first season, but he got us close.......and people seem unable to admit it now, but a lot closer than anyone thought.

As I say, when he left the club we were 8th - the same position we were in before yesterday's game where everyone says we've made such a massive improvement. If Sheffield United beat Burnley today we'll be back in 8th.

People say Emery was taking us backwards but that's purely because he overachieved in his first six months in the job. There were so many wankers needed to be cleared out of this club - Cech, Elneny, Mkhitaryan, Ozil, Ospina, Iwobi, Mustafi, Chambers, Welbeck, Jenkinson, Xhaka. Throw in the fact Cazorla left, Mertesacker retired, Ramsey was being allowed to walk away for nothing, Koscielny and Monreal nearing the end, and one starts to see the extent of the project. Get rid of all that lot, and spend £40m transforming a bunch of flaky losers into title contenders or even CL qualifiers, in less than 2 seasons? Do me a favour. Klopp wouldn't achieve it, nor would Pep. Chuck in the fact that he also lost Bellerin and Holding for virtually a year each and you see the size of the task

He had to make some stop gap signings like Lichsteiner who was utter shite because of the total lack of budget but if you look at the emergence of Saka and the signings of Guendouzi, Torreira, Leno and Martinelli on balance I thought there were more positive additions than shite ones. Saliba - we will find out. Mustafi, Xhaka and Ozil were definitely on their way out. From the list above that would pretty much be all the overrated, overpaid Wenger shite out of the club. If we'd finished 8th and had a chance to face a new season with all those c.unts gone, and a few new faces to add to some of those already brought in, I think we'd have done ok. Personally, I think the decline of the last few matches was entirely down to the fact that people like Xhaka were being actively managed out of the club - if some of the other players didn't like it, then tough fuck. You don't get to pick your boss in any walk of life

Anyway, all academic now as we have chosen our manager. He has inherited a better position than Emery did as half of the rebuild was already done. Its up to him now to ensure there's an improvement
Great post Steve.

And that is a really good point about Emery initially overachieving. It probably gave us false hope. Put all the same results last season in a different order (and do not have that EL final humiliation as the final game) and last season might have a different feel about it.

It's like when you lose a game 2-1 ... it always feels worse if you were winning than it does if were 2-0 down and pull one back, even though the result is the same.

Fuck ... putting results in a different order to put a positive spin on things ... I'm starting to sound like Wenger and Arteta :banghead:

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by StuartL »

augie wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:45 am
rodders999 wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:59 am
Augie take those Unai Emery posters down off your bedroom wall man and put back up the Belinda Carlisle ones :lol:

:wink:



I remember when she had the hit song after years in the wilderness, there were stories that she was about to do a naked photoshoot to earn some much needed coin - she wouldnt be high on my list, but I could probably bang one out to a naked photo of her 8) :oops: :oops: :wink:
I loved Belinda Carlisle - she was stunning :rubchin:

Clash
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by Clash »

StuartL wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:59 am
augie wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:45 am
rodders999 wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:59 am
Augie take those Unai Emery posters down off your bedroom wall man and put back up the Belinda Carlisle ones :lol:

:wink:



I remember when she had the hit song after years in the wilderness, there were stories that she was about to do a naked photoshoot to earn some much needed coin - she wouldnt be high on my list, but I could probably bang one out to a naked photo of her 8) :oops: :oops: :wink:
I loved Belinda Carlisle - she was stunning :rubchin:
Indeed she was! I could never decide if I fancied Carol Decker. Wondered if he eyes were too close together :oops: :D

Nobody beat Susannah Hoffs or Keren Woodward (Bananrama) for me though. 80s Kim Wilde too perhaps. .Miss Hoffs has aged better than any of the girls of that period IMO. Scary to think their all around 60 years old now though. :( Even Wayne Rooney would think twice !

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