Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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Will he ?

Have a statue erected after 30 glorious years service?
6
10%
Be a success, pick up a few trophies and put the club back on an even keel?
20
32%
Be a moderate success, before handing over to a more high profile successor?
15
24%
Be an utter fucking disaster?
22
35%
 
Total votes: 63

gooner265
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by gooner265 »

nut flush gooner wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:01 pm
Jock Gooner wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:35 pm
nut flush gooner wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:25 pm
Jock Gooner wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:57 pm
Can't say that I recall Ricco getting much of a hard time from the NB. Gus, Hayes and dear old Quinny yes but Ricco....no.
Ohh he did even in 1989. And I used to stand right in the middle.

As did I. I just cannot remember him getting that much grief especially given the 'quality' of the others I mentioned who I certainly can recall getting plenty of abuse.
Thing is unless you where there and it wasn't like gooners were singing you don't know what you're doing or anything like that, it was just a series of pure groans when he misplaced a pass. Rico did a job for the team, it was an ugly job so a lot of fans couldn't appreciate it really. So when he makes a mistake it gets amplified. Defintely affected his confidence over that period imo.
I was also in the NB at that time and went to all but 4 away matches and never heard any criticism. I actually met him last year as he drinks in the same local as my mate and was a really nice fella. He's coaching at Newcastle now and keeps himself to himself and doesn't chat about the old days much.
As for smudger I used to defend him all the time as he did get stick at times , especially as you said when Wrighty came along and his re changed but was my favourite player for years and lucky enough to meet him too.

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StuartL
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by StuartL »

Bennett wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:35 pm
Arteta doing very nicely for me.....sense of purpose and focus and put a work ethic and discipline in which had been hopelessly lost. I can't understand why there are any detractors at present....just my little opinion for what its worth
Apart from a few questionable team selections - he is doing fine in my book, slowly but surely re-establishing our will to win, he may well want to replace a few in the squad, with upgrades but has to work with what he has got and is getting more out of them then previous managers.

Long may that continue :barscarf:

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OneBardGooner
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by OneBardGooner »

Perhaps we should have a Fresh Poll now to see what the Voters think

And then

Another one in May 2021 :D

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rodders999
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by rodders999 »

I shall judge him in May :barscarf:

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DB10GOONER
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by DB10GOONER »

Hostgator incoming..... :wink:

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Bradywasking
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by Bradywasking »

He had a very bad night tonight..Baffling selection and baffling bringing on Pepe..

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augie
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by augie »

Bradywasking wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:21 pm
He had a very bad night tonight..Baffling selection and baffling bringing on Pepe..



Look back at the tail end of last season and the beginning of this one - pepe is ALWAYS brought on ahead of saka and it is disgraceful imo. Pepe is dogshit. I can try dressing it up in nice terms or anyway you want, but the guy is utter dogshit. He is a one trick pony (cutting inside) and I dont know if I have ever seen a more one footed player in my life. He seems uninterested most of the time, and his corners are a fcuking scandal :evil: Saka must be wondering if he did the right thing signing a new deal, cos if he cant get in ahead of pepe, and if arteta is going to be manager for a while yet (and judging by the support from the fans he will be kept), then what future does Saka have at the club ?
I know I keep getting lambasted every time I suggest it, but I really do not think that arteta trusts his young players and more often than not goes with the older players if there is a decision to be made - martinelli was frozen out prior to his injury, saka has played fcuk all since signing the new contract and is now behind willian and pepe, and holding and luiz are above gabriel in the pecking order :roll:

nut flush gooner
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by nut flush gooner »

StuartL wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:12 pm
Bennett wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:35 pm
Arteta doing very nicely for me.....sense of purpose and focus and put a work ethic and discipline in which had been hopelessly lost. I can't understand why there are any detractors at present....just my little opinion for what its worth
Apart from a few questionable team selections - he is doing fine in my book, slowly but surely re-establishing our will to win, he may well want to replace a few in the squad, with upgrades but has to work with what he has got and is getting more out of them then previous managers.

Long may that continue :barscarf:
I think he was over-cautious last night, but as usual, we get the forum meltdown which doesn't really attract me to trying to debate about Arteta on nights like last night. Confirmation bias in full flow etc.

What I would say is, it's clear again that Bellerin, Xhaka and Elneny despite elevated performance levels against average teams have been found out again. It's up to Arteta to make sure they are managed out of the club.

Bellerin was shocking and responsible for the second goal deciding he would follow the ball rather than hold his position. He ended up in the middle of the goal and Robertson ghosted in behind.

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g88ner
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by g88ner »

nut flush gooner wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:29 am

I think he was over-cautious last night, but as usual, we get the forum meltdown which doesn't really attract me to trying to debate about Arteta on nights like last night. Confirmation bias in full flow etc.

What I would say is, it's clear again that Bellerin, Xhaka and Elneny despite elevated performance levels against average teams have been found out again. It's up to Arteta to make sure they are managed out of the club.

Bellerin was shocking and responsible for the second goal deciding he would follow the ball rather than hold his position. He ended up in the middle of the goal and Robertson ghosted in behind.
Agree with all of that.

We were very cautious but i expected that. It was a tactic that got us results last season against Liverpool and city so I can’t be too critical of the plan. The execution obviously wasn’t great though.

It’s so painfully obvious that we need a new midfield. Really hope a midfielder or 2 arrives soon... I’m assuming it’ll happen though as we’ve basically dispensed of torreira and Guendouzi and we wouldn’t do that if someone else wasn’t coming in..... would we? :shock: :oops: :lol:

Clummo99
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by Clummo99 »

nut flush gooner wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:29 am
StuartL wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:12 pm
Bennett wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:35 pm
Arteta doing very nicely for me.....sense of purpose and focus and put a work ethic and discipline in which had been hopelessly lost. I can't understand why there are any detractors at present....just my little opinion for what its worth
Apart from a few questionable team selections - he is doing fine in my book, slowly but surely re-establishing our will to win, he may well want to replace a few in the squad, with upgrades but has to work with what he has got and is getting more out of them then previous managers.

Long may that continue :barscarf:
I think he was over-cautious last night, but as usual, we get the forum meltdown which doesn't really attract me to trying to debate about Arteta on nights like last night. Confirmation bias in full flow etc.

What I would say is, it's clear again that Bellerin, Xhaka and Elneny despite elevated performance levels against average teams have been found out again. It's up to Arteta to make sure they are managed out of the club.

Bellerin was shocking and responsible for the second goal deciding he would follow the ball rather than hold his position. He ended up in the middle of the goal and Robertson ghosted in behind.
I see that second goal totally different. IMO Willian is the one to blame in letting Robertson go. Surely our right sided midfielder is responsible for the opposition left back?

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augie
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by augie »

nut flush gooner wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:29 am
StuartL wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:12 pm
Bennett wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:35 pm
Arteta doing very nicely for me.....sense of purpose and focus and put a work ethic and discipline in which had been hopelessly lost. I can't understand why there are any detractors at present....just my little opinion for what its worth
Apart from a few questionable team selections - he is doing fine in my book, slowly but surely re-establishing our will to win, he may well want to replace a few in the squad, with upgrades but has to work with what he has got and is getting more out of them then previous managers.

Long may that continue :barscarf:
I think he was over-cautious last night, but as usual, we get the forum meltdown which doesn't really attract me to trying to debate about Arteta on nights like last night. Confirmation bias in full flow etc.

What I would say is, it's clear again that Bellerin, Xhaka and Elneny despite elevated performance levels against average teams have been found out again. It's up to Arteta to make sure they are managed out of the club.

Bellerin was shocking and responsible for the second goal deciding he would follow the ball rather than hold his position. He ended up in the middle of the goal and Robertson ghosted in behind.



Too simplified imo -

For starters, the vast majority of the criticism of arteta has been personel selections (starting team and substitutes) and not tactical. Secondly, the tactical plan was at best flawed, but more realistically it was only half a plan - was our only attacking plan to launch long direct balls to auba ? What purpose were willian and laca going to serve when we had no ball player in midfield to feed them ? Neither of them are renowned for their work ethic, and neither has the required pace to chase onto long balls aimed in behind, and neither do they have the strength or physical presence to win high direct balls. Maybe it was just a case of formulation a plan for the 8 players behind them and letting them "do their thing" up front - hardly the stuff of masterplans

nut flush gooner
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by nut flush gooner »

Clummo99 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:45 am
nut flush gooner wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:29 am
StuartL wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:12 pm
Bennett wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:35 pm
Arteta doing very nicely for me.....sense of purpose and focus and put a work ethic and discipline in which had been hopelessly lost. I can't understand why there are any detractors at present....just my little opinion for what its worth
Apart from a few questionable team selections - he is doing fine in my book, slowly but surely re-establishing our will to win, he may well want to replace a few in the squad, with upgrades but has to work with what he has got and is getting more out of them then previous managers.

Long may that continue :barscarf:
I think he was over-cautious last night, but as usual, we get the forum meltdown which doesn't really attract me to trying to debate about Arteta on nights like last night. Confirmation bias in full flow etc.

What I would say is, it's clear again that Bellerin, Xhaka and Elneny despite elevated performance levels against average teams have been found out again. It's up to Arteta to make sure they are managed out of the club.

Bellerin was shocking and responsible for the second goal deciding he would follow the ball rather than hold his position. He ended up in the middle of the goal and Robertson ghosted in behind.
I see that second goal totally different. IMO Willian is the one to blame in letting Robertson go. Surely our right sided midfielder is responsible for the opposition left back?
Image

Not sure if this works (Darn it doesnt), but Bellerin has moved from where Robertson has ghosted in to the middle of the goal only to see the ball sail over his head. Was Willian at fault for him doing that, and could he anticipate a bellend going walkies, a big ask for a new team player imo.

Clummo99
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by Clummo99 »

New team or not, surely he knows to track the fullback instead of letting him run past him? Willian tries to recover but too late.

Bellerin naturally tucks in because Mane has moved centrally. Ergo the space is there for Robertson to run into. A space that should have been covered by Willian?

I've never taken any coaching courses just watched football for nearly 50 years. Seem obvious to me who's at fault if we're going to be laying out blame.

nut flush gooner
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by nut flush gooner »

Clummo99 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:06 pm
New team or not, surely he knows to track the fullback instead of letting him run past him? Willian tries to recover but too late.

Bellerin naturally tucks in because Mane has moved centrally. Ergo the space is there for Robertson to run into. A space that should have been covered by Willian?

I've never taken any coaching courses just watched football for nearly 50 years. Seem obvious to me who's at fault if we're going to be laying out blame.
Bellerin's positional play is shocking, I don't buy he has to tuck in when there's two CBS in front of him manning the middle of the goal. Normally, I would accept that Willian has to shoulder some of the blame, but Bellerin has form for positional weakness.

Goals conceded vs Leicester Away (Vardy) and Athletico Madrid (Costa) a few seasons back away are just a few examples. I was talking about this to Graham on AFTV who also has met Nigel Winterburn and discussed Bellerin. What did Nigel say about Bellerin? No positional awareness. Nice streams by the way and thanks.

Clummo99
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by Clummo99 »

nut flush gooner wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:21 pm
Clummo99 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:06 pm
New team or not, surely he knows to track the fullback instead of letting him run past him? Willian tries to recover but too late.

Bellerin naturally tucks in because Mane has moved centrally. Ergo the space is there for Robertson to run into. A space that should have been covered by Willian?

I've never taken any coaching courses just watched football for nearly 50 years. Seem obvious to me who's at fault if we're going to be laying out blame.
Bellerin's positional play is shocking, I don't buy he has to tuck in when there's two CBS in front of him manning the middle of the goal. Normally, I would accept that Willian has to shoulder some of the blame, but Bellerin has form for positional weakness.

Goals conceded vs Leicester Away (Vardy) and Athletico Madrid (Costa) a few seasons back away are just a few examples. I was talking about this to Graham on AFTV who also has met Nigel Winterburn and discussed Bellerin. What did Nigel say about Bellerin? No positional awareness. Nice streams by the way and thanks.
I wasn't talking about Bellerin in general, I was just giving my opinion on that particular goal.

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