Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.

Will he ?

Have a statue erected after 30 glorious years service?
2
4%
Be a success, pick up a few trophies and put the club back on an even keel?
19
35%
Be a moderate success, before handing over to a more high profile successor?
13
24%
Be an utter fucking disaster?
20
37%
 
Total votes: 54

markyp
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby markyp » Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:48 pm

I was no fan of arteta and am still sceptical but all this over analysing of every tiny little detail is way over the top. Here's 2 facts nobody can deny,firstly we are hard to beat under Arteta,our goals against ratio is now 1 per game instead of 1.5 under dick,to build a team you always start from the back and that backline have been decent, you cant deny that, every backline makes mistakes how else are goals scored but to pick luiz,mustafi and co to pieces every single game is nauseating now. Secondly forget all this xhaka is shit,so and so ain't up to it,he needs to go,we need a massive clear out etc the reason we are drawing so many games is because the front players for whatever reason arent quite clicking,ironic that now the defense is tighter we arent scoring! what do we do about it? Well whoever's we bring in wont be any good in the eyes of most people here.Ramsey was shit cazorla was shit,rosicky was shit,sanchez was an asshole,oh how we miss those shit players now! My point? Well once the front players start scoring those draws will become wins as even when weve been poor weve still held on. I'm now waiting for a million replays highlighting areas of my post in red that tell me I'm dreaming blah blah blah,pfffft

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augie
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby augie » Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:58 pm

I was no fan of arteta and am still sceptical but all this over analysing of every tiny little detail is way over the top. Here's 2 facts nobody can deny,firstly we are hard to beat under Arteta,our goals against ratio is now 1 per game instead of 1.5 under dick,to build a team you always start from the back and that backline have been decent, you cant deny that, every backline makes mistakes how else are goals scored but to pick luiz,mustafi and co to pieces every single game is nauseating now. Secondly forget all this xhaka is shit,so and so ain't up to it,he needs to go,we need a massive clear out etc the reason we are drawing so many games is because the front players for whatever reason arent quite clicking,ironic that now the defense is tighter we arent scoring! what do we do about it? Well whoever's we bring in wont be any good in the eyes of most people here.Ramsey was shit cazorla was shit,rosicky was shit,sanchez was an asshole,oh how we miss those shit players now! My point? Well once the front players start scoring those draws will become wins as even when weve been poor weve still held on. I'm now waiting for a million replays highlighting areas of my post in red that tell me I'm dreaming blah blah blah,pfffft



Here is another fact - if you win one game and lose one game, then you are better off than drawing both. That my dear friend is facts

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby DB10GOONER » Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:06 pm

I was no fan of arteta and am still sceptical but all this over analysing of every tiny little detail is way over the top. Here's 2 facts nobody can deny,firstly we are hard to beat under Arteta,our goals against ratio is now 1 per game instead of 1.5 under dick,to build a team you always start from the back and that backline have been decent, you cant deny that, every backline makes mistakes how else are goals scored but to pick luiz,mustafi and co to pieces every single game is nauseating now. Secondly forget all this xhaka is shit,so and so ain't up to it,he needs to go,we need a massive clear out etc the reason we are drawing so many games is because the front players for whatever reason arent quite clicking,ironic that now the defense is tighter we arent scoring! what do we do about it? Well whoever's we bring in wont be any good in the eyes of most people here.Ramsey was shit cazorla was shit,rosicky was shit,sanchez was an asshole,oh how we miss those shit players now! My point? Well once the front players start scoring those draws will become wins as even when weve been poor weve still held on. I'm now waiting for a million replays highlighting areas of my post in red that tell me I'm dreaming blah blah blah,pfffft
What's wrong with red? :box:


You asked for it mate! :D :wink:

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby markyp » Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:30 pm

I was no fan of arteta and am still sceptical but all this over analysing of every tiny little detail is way over the top. Here's 2 facts nobody can deny,firstly we are hard to beat under Arteta,our goals against ratio is now 1 per game instead of 1.5 under dick,to build a team you always start from the back and that backline have been decent, you cant deny that, every backline makes mistakes how else are goals scored but to pick luiz,mustafi and co to pieces every single game is nauseating now. Secondly forget all this xhaka is shit,so and so ain't up to it,he needs to go,we need a massive clear out etc the reason we are drawing so many games is because the front players for whatever reason arent quite clicking,ironic that now the defense is tighter we arent scoring! what do we do about it? Well whoever's we bring in wont be any good in the eyes of most people here.Ramsey was shit cazorla was shit,rosicky was shit,sanchez was an asshole,oh how we miss those shit players now! My point? Well once the front players start scoring those draws will become wins as even when weve been poor weve still held on. I'm now waiting for a million replays highlighting areas of my post in red that tell me I'm dreaming blah blah blah,pfffft



Here is another fact - if you win one game and lose one game, then you are better off than drawing both. That my dear friend is facts
Yes that is a fact augie but you have far more chance of turning draws into wins than defeats into wins do you not??

markyp
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby markyp » Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:30 pm

I was no fan of arteta and am still sceptical but all this over analysing of every tiny little detail is way over the top. Here's 2 facts nobody can deny,firstly we are hard to beat under Arteta,our goals against ratio is now 1 per game instead of 1.5 under dick,to build a team you always start from the back and that backline have been decent, you cant deny that, every backline makes mistakes how else are goals scored but to pick luiz,mustafi and co to pieces every single game is nauseating now. Secondly forget all this xhaka is shit,so and so ain't up to it,he needs to go,we need a massive clear out etc the reason we are drawing so many games is because the front players for whatever reason arent quite clicking,ironic that now the defense is tighter we arent scoring! what do we do about it? Well whoever's we bring in wont be any good in the eyes of most people here.Ramsey was shit cazorla was shit,rosicky was shit,sanchez was an asshole,oh how we miss those shit players now! My point? Well once the front players start scoring those draws will become wins as even when weve been poor weve still held on. I'm now waiting for a million replays highlighting areas of my post in red that tell me I'm dreaming blah blah blah,pfffft



Here is another fact - if you win one game and lose one game, then you are better off than drawing both. That my dear friend is facts
Yes that is a fact augie but you have far more chance of turning draws into wins than defeats into wins do you not??

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby SteveO 35 » Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:16 pm

I didn't see any of the game today so am not gonna comment on the quality (or lack thereof), but one win in eight league games tells it's own story - I don't give a fcuk what anyone say's, if emery started last season or this season with a run like that, we wouldn't be listening to shit about what a positive difference the change in manager has made :roll: :oops: :oops:
Exactly right - I love the way all of those who were giving Dick bundles are now clutching at straws seeing the things they want to see to justify the change.
That's an oversimplification there mate. I wanted Emery gone because he kept making the same ego-driven arrogant mistakes over and over and wasn't up to the job.

I have seen slight (probably temporary let's be honest) improvements in some areas under Arteta but also areas where we've gone backward under Arteta.

Personally I don't think he's up to the job long term. But admitting when I see something improve doesn't mean I'm bullshitting to justify the change. It's not that black and white. Two wrongs don't make a right. Arteta is not good enough but that doesn't mean Dick was.
My challenge to all those who wanted change is to look at the conditions that any incoming manager will inherit - and by that I mean the non-investing, wig wearing cock - and judge each and every manager who accepts that challenge on the same basis. Has Arteta got a harder job than Emery? Not for me. In fact its an easier job - he isn't the first one in to face the Wenger luvvies, and he isn't the first one who needs to sweep away a lorry load of shit as Emery was already halfway down that path. So, to my mind his job is easier - the fans have certainly welcome him more - and the injury situation he has on his hands is no worse than what Dick had with Bellerin, Holding, Welbeck and others missing for large chunks of the season. The cards he has are at least the same and arguably better and whichever way you choose to look at it, we are in a worse position since Emery left. I don't see the defensive improvements that are being bandied about - we've been fortunate to play a pathetic Bournemouth/Bournemouth Reserves combo twice, Leeds with Patrick Bamford (as many shots in one half as Emery every got canned for), Sheffield United who are tight at the back but bang average up front and been mediocre for massive chunks of all those games. Burnley ditto - even Wenger and Emery slapped them every time

So the improvement seems to have come from a 1-2 defeat against Chelsea where we played well for 35 minutes until Lumpard spotted the obvious and made a game changing substitution. The usual defensive mistakes showed at the end. A 2-0 home win against the most limpdicked of Man Ure sides with a list of injuries double the size of our own - but in fairness you can only beat what's in front of you and he did it well. I didn't see the 2-2 at Chavski but I heard we showed great spirit with 10 men in a way we never did under Wenger, and as I said at the time I credit him for that.

So when I look at all of that its very hard for me to see where this supposed improvement has come from. Harder to break down? Well in the two games against a top four side we conceded twice in both with the same calamitous mistakes that we've seen hundreds of times before. Thanks to Patrick Bamford, Jay Rodriguez, Dominic Solanke and a host of other shite that we haven't looked worse in the other games. Leeds could have been 3-0 up without any exaggeration and the 1-0 win was hardly an advert for great defending (13 shots conceded in one half)

We're going backwards. He isn't the man for the job. I hope I'm desperately wrong, and that my words are used as the stick to beat me with in the way Stuart Pearce said we should have signed Collymore instead of Bergkamp !! :D

If he goes 22 games unbeaten, reaches a European final and misses out on the CL places by 1 single point next season I'll say he's had a good season and so I suspect will many others. How that differs from Dick though, god only knows. People remembered the last 7-8 games, and forgot a lot of good stuff that went before.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby Nos89 » Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:31 pm

It makes no difference if Arteta is the right or wrong man.
We seem to have a bit of the stoke city syndrome at the moment. It's the players that affect the result regardless of who is charge and we've got a group of players we cannot shift for a fee or for free.
How can Arteta legislate for the two chances that Auba missed at Burnley, which he would normally put away?
What Arteta has done is shore up the defence with a system that even mustafi operated in effectively. Last 4 games we've had 4 different CB pairings yet still not lost a game. Which for Arsenal over the last 4-5 seasons is unheard of.
Once we win 1 game using Arteta's system we will win 5-6 games on the bounce.
This team is capable of winning a trophy, they just need to realise their potential. This break has come at the right time for Arteta.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby Nos89 » Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:46 pm

He's only been in the job for 6 weeks. Lost one game.

He's working with the muppets Emery bought and the remaining deadwood left by wenger. This break is very much needed at this point of the season.
Yeah and drawn the vast majority too.

Who are these muppets that Emery bought? You mean Leno, Guendouzi, Martinelli and Torreira who have probably been 4 of the best players in the past 18 months or so, and who Arteta has been building his team around?

If you're referring to the shite that the senile old cock accumulated like Mustafi and Ozil then fair enough, but enough of the Emery bashing please. Remind me where we were in the league when he left?
Leno is satisfactory at best. Guendouzi has been 5/10 and torreira was played out of position, hits the floor too easily and gives posession away as frequently as Xhaka. He's had a few good games under arteta because he has played him in the right position. If he has the stamina to play consistently well over a premier league season then he will turn out to be a good signing At the moment he only seems to last 4-5 matches before he hits the "red zone" and has to be rested.
Martinelli has been different gravy. Signed under emery's tenure, in the same way DB10 was signed under Rioch's stint as manager.
Emery would still be manager if we didn't blow the last 6 games of last season. Up until the 5-5 match, I was backing Emery.
Arteta will see us to the end of the season. Players that need to go will hopefully go. But for some reason, I have a nagging feeling that there will be another management change in the summer. Rodgers or even Conte might be at the helm at the start of 2020/21 season.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby GoonerMuzz » Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:40 am

I didn't see any of the game today so am not gonna comment on the quality (or lack thereof), but one win in eight league games tells it's own story - I don't give a fcuk what anyone say's, if emery started last season or this season with a run like that, we wouldn't be listening to shit about what a positive difference the change in manager has made :roll: :oops: :oops:
Exactly right - I love the way all of those who were giving Dick bundles are now clutching at straws seeing the things they want to see to justify the change.
That's an oversimplification there mate. I wanted Emery gone because he kept making the same ego-driven arrogant mistakes over and over and wasn't up to the job.

I have seen slight (probably temporary let's be honest) improvements in some areas under Arteta but also areas where we've gone backward under Arteta.

Personally I don't think he's up to the job long term. But admitting when I see something improve doesn't mean I'm bullshitting to justify the change. It's not that black and white. Two wrongs don't make a right. Arteta is not good enough but that doesn't mean Dick was.
My challenge to all those who wanted change is to look at the conditions that any incoming manager will inherit - and by that I mean the non-investing, wig wearing cock - and judge each and every manager who accepts that challenge on the same basis. Has Arteta got a harder job than Emery? Not for me. In fact its an easier job - he isn't the first one in to face the Wenger luvvies, and he isn't the first one who needs to sweep away a lorry load of shit as Emery was already halfway down that path. So, to my mind his job is easier - the fans have certainly welcome him more - and the injury situation he has on his hands is no worse than what Dick had with Bellerin, Holding, Welbeck and others missing for large chunks of the season. The cards he has are at least the same and arguably better and whichever way you choose to look at it, we are in a worse position since Emery left. I don't see the defensive improvements that are being bandied about - we've been fortunate to play a pathetic Bournemouth/Bournemouth Reserves combo twice, Leeds with Patrick Bamford (as many shots in one half as Emery every got canned for), Sheffield United who are tight at the back but bang average up front and been mediocre for massive chunks of all those games. Burnley ditto - even Wenger and Emery slapped them every time

So the improvement seems to have come from a 1-2 defeat against Chelsea where we played well for 35 minutes until Lumpard spotted the obvious and made a game changing substitution. The usual defensive mistakes showed at the end. A 2-0 home win against the most limpdicked of Man Ure sides with a list of injuries double the size of our own - but in fairness you can only beat what's in front of you and he did it well. I didn't see the 2-2 at Chavski but I heard we showed great spirit with 10 men in a way we never did under Wenger, and as I said at the time I credit him for that.

So when I look at all of that its very hard for me to see where this supposed improvement has come from. Harder to break down? Well in the two games against a top four side we conceded twice in both with the same calamitous mistakes that we've seen hundreds of times before. Thanks to Patrick Bamford, Jay Rodriguez, Dominic Solanke and a host of other shite that we haven't looked worse in the other games. Leeds could have been 3-0 up without any exaggeration and the 1-0 win was hardly an advert for great defending (13 shots conceded in one half)

We're going backwards. He isn't the man for the job. I hope I'm desperately wrong, and that my words are used as the stick to beat me with in the way Stuart Pearce said we should have signed Collymore instead of Bergkamp !! :D

If he goes 22 games unbeaten, reaches a European final and misses out on the CL places by 1 single point next season I'll say he's had a good season and so I suspect will many others. How that differs from Dick though, god only knows. People remembered the last 7-8 games, and forgot a lot of good stuff that went before.
You see that's is where we disagree, there were a few of us at Christmas last season starting to say Emery wasn't good enough, for me the end of season collapse and no show in the EL final just crystalised what i had been feeling since about the end of November '18, even during the unbeaten 22 game run there were some seriously ropey results against minnows in the group stage of the EL but that could be put down to the squad he had. On from there the carry on with Ozil didn't help, playing dogshite players like Xhaka when other options were available, constant tinkering with players, tactics, positions leading to never having a settled squad all of this in his first season.

Going into last summer i was willing to give it more time but then after a semi decent transfer window it all started over again, there were some utterly woeful games where we got results by the skin of our teeth and some diabolical performances again against dogshite European teams and bottom feeding PL clubs, simply put for a manager of his experience we were all at sea.

You could see he'd lost the dressing room, was rapidly losing the supporters and had to go, not all of it was his fault because the players have to shoulder the responsibility as well, but as i said at the time you cant sack a whole squad.

Arteta is no ones pick except the boards but he cannot be held to the same standard as Emery, who had 3 transfer windows and a season and half to get things right, immaterial of the players he could have at least got us more organised but his constant tinkering just constantly unsettled the team and led to his own downfall.

Arteta has no experience, no pedigree and none of his own players, has had less than two months with the squad yet some of you are expecting miracles or at least him to be better than Emery, i'm sorry but that just smacks of petulance and sour grapes to me and a serious lack of understanding or a deliberate studied ignorance of the reality of his and the clubs current situation.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby xisstential » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:11 am

I didn't see any of the game today so am not gonna comment on the quality (or lack thereof), but one win in eight league games tells it's own story - I don't give a fcuk what anyone say's, if emery started last season or this season with a run like that, we wouldn't be listening to shit about what a positive difference the change in manager has made :roll: :oops: :oops:
Exactly right - I love the way all of those who were giving Dick bundles are now clutching at straws seeing the things they want to see to justify the change.
That's an oversimplification there mate. I wanted Emery gone because he kept making the same ego-driven arrogant mistakes over and over and wasn't up to the job.

I have seen slight (probably temporary let's be honest) improvements in some areas under Arteta but also areas where we've gone backward under Arteta.

Personally I don't think he's up to the job long term. But admitting when I see something improve doesn't mean I'm bullshitting to justify the change. It's not that black and white. Two wrongs don't make a right. Arteta is not good enough but that doesn't mean Dick was.
My challenge to all those who wanted change is to look at the conditions that any incoming manager will inherit - and by that I mean the non-investing, wig wearing cock - and judge each and every manager who accepts that challenge on the same basis. Has Arteta got a harder job than Emery? Not for me. In fact its an easier job - he isn't the first one in to face the Wenger luvvies, and he isn't the first one who needs to sweep away a lorry load of shit as Emery was already halfway down that path. So, to my mind his job is easier - the fans have certainly welcome him more - and the injury situation he has on his hands is no worse than what Dick had with Bellerin, Holding, Welbeck and others missing for large chunks of the season. The cards he has are at least the same and arguably better and whichever way you choose to look at it, we are in a worse position since Emery left. I don't see the defensive improvements that are being bandied about - we've been fortunate to play a pathetic Bournemouth/Bournemouth Reserves combo twice, Leeds with Patrick Bamford (as many shots in one half as Emery every got canned for), Sheffield United who are tight at the back but bang average up front and been mediocre for massive chunks of all those games. Burnley ditto - even Wenger and Emery slapped them every time

So the improvement seems to have come from a 1-2 defeat against Chelsea where we played well for 35 minutes until Lumpard spotted the obvious and made a game changing substitution. The usual defensive mistakes showed at the end. A 2-0 home win against the most limpdicked of Man Ure sides with a list of injuries double the size of our own - but in fairness you can only beat what's in front of you and he did it well. I didn't see the 2-2 at Chavski but I heard we showed great spirit with 10 men in a way we never did under Wenger, and as I said at the time I credit him for that.

So when I look at all of that its very hard for me to see where this supposed improvement has come from. Harder to break down? Well in the two games against a top four side we conceded twice in both with the same calamitous mistakes that we've seen hundreds of times before. Thanks to Patrick Bamford, Jay Rodriguez, Dominic Solanke and a host of other shite that we haven't looked worse in the other games. Leeds could have been 3-0 up without any exaggeration and the 1-0 win was hardly an advert for great defending (13 shots conceded in one half)

We're going backwards. He isn't the man for the job. I hope I'm desperately wrong, and that my words are used as the stick to beat me with in the way Stuart Pearce said we should have signed Collymore instead of Bergkamp !! :D

If he goes 22 games unbeaten, reaches a European final and misses out on the CL places by 1 single point next season I'll say he's had a good season and so I suspect will many others. How that differs from Dick though, god only knows. People remembered the last 7-8 games, and forgot a lot of good stuff that went before.
You see that's is where we disagree, there were a few of us at Christmas last season starting to say Emery wasn't good enough, for me the end of season collapse and no show in the EL final just crystalised what i had been feeling since about the end of November '18, even during the unbeaten 22 game run there were some seriously ropey results against minnows in the group stage of the EL but that could be put down to the squad he had. On from there the carry on with Ozil didn't help, playing dogshite players like Xhaka when other options were available, constant tinkering with players, tactics, positions leading to never having a settled squad all of this in his first season.

Going into last summer i was willing to give it more time but then after a semi decent transfer window it all started over again, there were some utterly woeful games where we got results by the skin of our teeth and some diabolical performances again against dogshite European teams and bottom feeding PL clubs, simply put for a manager of his experience we were all at sea.

You could see he'd lost the dressing room, was rapidly losing the supporters and had to go, not all of it was his fault because the players have to shoulder the responsibility as well, but as i said at the time you cant sack a whole squad.

Arteta is no ones pick except the boards but he cannot be held to the same standard as Emery, who had 3 transfer windows and a season and half to get things right, immaterial of the players he could have at least got us more organised but his constant tinkering just constantly unsettled the team and led to his own downfall.

Arteta has no experience, no pedigree and none of his own players, has had less than two months with the squad yet some of you are expecting miracles or at least him to be better than Emery, i'm sorry but that just smacks of petulance and sour grapes to me and a serious lack of understanding or a deliberate studied ignorance of the reality of his and the clubs current situation.
Not me...….I am getting exactly what I expected. Almost every performance is just further confirmation. A ship sailing towards the rocks and the owners get Captain Pugwash to take over.

Seriously what did any of you honestly expect??? You desperately hoped and now you are trying to convince yourselves, but the results are the reality. I don't blame Arteta and I never wanted him to fail but in terms of managerial monetary rewards, we never paid that much and that is exactly what we got.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby markyp » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:45 pm

Does nobody here read the papers then? Hard to find anything negative about Arteta unlike this place.even the dumbass journos can see the differance that Arteta is making,yes small differences but cmon baby steps guys.even klopp wasnt setting the place alight in his first season let alone 9 games in fact took him two and a bit years to get them to where they are,now I'm not saying we are gonna necessarily hit the heights of liverpool anytime soon but at least acknowledge some of the good he is doing especially without players of his choice.wish people would just lighten up a bit,youd think arteta had just lost 9 on the spin with all the depression in here

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby augie » Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:24 pm




Did you read this article then buddy ? :rubchin:

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby markyp » Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:43 pm




Did you read this article then buddy ? :rubchin:
Augie unless arteta or any other manager matches the invincibles you will still find fault, you are desperate for arteta to fail so that you can continue your misery for the club,I seriously think you would even pick fault in that invincible team.we are where we are, we arent gonna be ripping up trees over night but we arent losing and that's a good start point,a solid back four is where it begins,artetas stripped us back and is starting again from what has been a total cluster fuck the last 15 years

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby Clummo2019 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:01 pm

markyp is the only voice of reason on here.

The glass really is half empty for some of you. If you can't see the small improvements that are being made under Arteta then you either haveso sort of agenda or your football knowledge and understanding is that of a child.

I haven't been on here for a while because of all the negativity and moaning. Don't think I'll be returning any time soon.

GOYG :barscarf:

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby xisstential » Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:17 am

markyp is the only voice of reason on here.

The glass really is half empty for some of you. If you can't see the small improvements that are being made under Arteta then you either haveso sort of agenda or your football knowledge and understanding is that of a child.

I haven't been on here for a while because of all the negativity and moaning. Don't think I'll be returning any time soon.

GOYG :barscarf:
Sports are results orientated....and you are obviously only reading what you want to read. I saw an in depth article the other day that said this is the worst situation since 1912....and we all know what happened then. Incredible how our expectations have been reduced to the level where we have to be buoyed by the fact that we are not absolute dross 100% of the time....only 90!!

The side is awful and Arteta will not, because he cannot, fix it. That's not negative, that's a stone cold fact.


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