Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.

Will he ?

Have a statue erected after 30 glorious years service?
2
4%
Be a success, pick up a few trophies and put the club back on an even keel?
18
34%
Be a moderate success, before handing over to a more high profile successor?
13
25%
Be an utter fucking disaster?
20
38%
 
Total votes: 53

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DB10GOONER
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby DB10GOONER » Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:06 am

Many years ago on this forum we had this discussion about realism and negativity over and over almost every day where everybody got labelled. We had the realists the rose tinters, the AKB'S and later the WOB's. It led to numerous spats and to a lot of the better posters leaving and the forum became a boring pit of bitching and infighting.

So can we please not go down that road again of turning minor disagreements into personal disputes and insults?

LeftfootlegendGooner
Posts: 8163
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:07 pm

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby LeftfootlegendGooner » Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:16 am

Many years ago on this forum we had this discussion about realism and negativity over and over almost every day where everybody got labelled. We had the realists the rose tinters, the AKB'S and later the WOB's. It led to numerous spats and to a lot of the better posters leaving and the forum became a boring pit of bitching and infighting.

So can we please not go down that road again of turning minor disagreements into personal disputes and insults?
Agreed but you know who's fault it is don't you but you're too polite to say, I'll give you a clue, it's the "depressive duo", the "know-it-all-twins", the "baba vanga baldies", aka "Hinge and Bracket" :lol:

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augie
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Location: Ireland

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby augie » Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:02 am




Did you read this article then buddy ? :rubchin:
Augie unless arteta or any other manager matches the invincibles you will still find fault, you are desperate for arteta to fail so that you can continue your misery for the club,I seriously think you would even pick fault in that invincible team.we are where we are, we arent gonna be ripping up trees over night but we arent losing and that's a good start point,a solid back four is where it begins,artetas stripped us back and is starting again from what has been a total cluster fuck the last 15 years



Let's get things straight here for you and that other knob who keeps trolling me -

1. You should see that when I posted that link for the sun newspaper article, I did do with a laughing emoji at the end of it - I put that emoji there cos I found the article amusing rather than serious, and am not for one second giving any credence or respect to it cos comparisons like that are always subjective thus not a like for like comparison. The ONLY REASON I reposted it was in response to your claim that nobody in the meeja are questioning the job arteta is doing

2. I don't want arteta to fail at all - all things being equal I would be very on board with the club running with a new project involving a young manager and young hungry players. However we have to acknowledge that all things are not stable enough to embark on such a project, and we simply had to go with an experienced manager to steady the ship rather than an absolute rookie. That the board decided to appoint a novice/cheap manager that the can manipulate doesn't surprise me, but the fact that so many Gooners have blindly supported his performance to date has shocked me tbh

3. Imo people need to look at the bottom line here and accept that results have not been acceptable - some will point to perceived improved performances (especially defensively), but these games have been against palace, Sheffield united, Bournemouth and burnley ffs :roll: It is my belief that fans are being far from consistant here - if emery had produced this run of results AND performances, fans would be up in arms claiming them to be unacceptable (fair enough imo), but many of those Gooners are now championing arteta for those very same results and performances :? Those fans will defend arteta on the basis of the players he is being asked to turn around not being good enough ......... are they not the same players that emery was expected to do a lot better with ? I have long since argued that wenger and emery should have been doing better with the players at their disposal, and imo the same applies to arteta - they may not be top quality players, but they sure as shit are far better (on paper) than anything palace, burnley, Bournemouth etc have to offer, so the question remains as to why they haven't done better and what the manager should be doing better. I agree that artea HAS improved the team in some area's, but I also believe that the improvements have been minimal and nowhere near the level of improvements that should be expected. If we are all agreed (which I think we are) that turning around this team is a long term project then that is fair enough, but ffs please stop with this campaign of lauding arteta's performance simply cos you want it to be so, because the facts are that our results and improvements have been fcuk all (if at all), and we rarely look like winning a game these days.

LeftfootlegendGooner
Posts: 8163
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:07 pm

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby LeftfootlegendGooner » Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:23 am




Did you read this article then buddy ? :rubchin:
Augie unless arteta or any other manager matches the invincibles you will still find fault, you are desperate for arteta to fail so that you can continue your misery for the club,I seriously think you would even pick fault in that invincible team.we are where we are, we arent gonna be ripping up trees over night but we arent losing and that's a good start point,a solid back four is where it begins,artetas stripped us back and is starting again from what has been a total cluster fuck the last 15 years



Let's get things straight here for you and that other knob who keeps trolling me -

1. You should see that when I posted that link for the sun newspaper article, I did do with a laughing emoji at the end of it - I put that emoji there cos I found the article amusing rather than serious, and am not for one second giving any credence or respect to it cos comparisons like that are always subjective thus not a like for like comparison. The ONLY REASON I reposted it was in response to your claim that nobody in the meeja are questioning the job arteta is doing

2. I don't want arteta to fail at all - all things being equal I would be very on board with the club running with a new project involving a young manager and young hungry players. However we have to acknowledge that all things are not stable enough to embark on such a project, and we simply had to go with an experienced manager to steady the ship rather than an absolute rookie. That the board decided to appoint a novice/cheap manager that the can manipulate doesn't surprise me, but the fact that so many Gooners have blindly supported his performance to date has shocked me tbh

3. Imo people need to look at the bottom line here and accept that results have not been acceptable - some will point to perceived improved performances (especially defensively), but these games have been against palace, Sheffield united, Bournemouth and burnley ffs :roll: It is my belief that fans are being far from consistant here - if emery had produced this run of results AND performances, fans would be up in arms claiming them to be unacceptable (fair enough imo), but many of those Gooners are now championing arteta for those very same results and performances :? Those fans will defend arteta on the basis of the players he is being asked to turn around not being good enough ......... are they not the same players that emery was expected to do a lot better with ? I have long since argued that wenger and emery should have been doing better with the players at their disposal, and imo the same applies to arteta - they may not be top quality players, but they sure as shit are far better (on paper) than anything palace, burnley, Bournemouth etc have to offer, so the question remains as to why they haven't done better and what the manager should be doing better. I agree that artea HAS improved the team in some area's, but I also believe that the improvements have been minimal and nowhere near the level of improvements that should be expected. If we are all agreed (which I think we are) that turning around this team is a long term project then that is fair enough, but ffs please stop with this campaign of lauding arteta's performance simply cos you want it to be so, because the facts are that our results and improvements have been fcuk all (if at all), and we rarely look like winning a game these days.
Me trolling you lol, bojack you having your usual childish rants at me because I disagree with every inane thought you have that unfortunately you seem worth sharing.

As for the insults you will also find it's you that gets all keyboard warriorish like a 16 year old former Jeremy Kyle contestant.

Insults that you wouldn't say to me in a pub :roll: :lol:

HerbertChapman
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:23 pm

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby HerbertChapman » Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:01 pm

The thing I find the most amusing is the two biggest moaners and complainers have posted on numerous occassions that neither actually watch many games! How can anyone offer a constructive view when you haven't seen it with your own eyes? Their opinions can only be based on other people's opinions or their own preconceptions. :lol:

I've got no time for that.

COYG :barscarf:

LeftfootlegendGooner
Posts: 8163
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:07 pm

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby LeftfootlegendGooner » Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:05 pm

The thing I find the most amusing is the two biggest moaners and complainers have posted on numerous occassions that neither actually watch many games! How can anyone offer a constructive view when you haven't seen it with your own eyes? Their opinions can only be based on other people's opinions or their own preconceptions. :lol:

I've got no time for that.

COYG :barscarf:
This :barscarf:

User avatar
augie
Posts: 25354
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:03 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby augie » Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:07 pm




Did you read this article then buddy ? :rubchin:
Augie unless arteta or any other manager matches the invincibles you will still find fault, you are desperate for arteta to fail so that you can continue your misery for the club,I seriously think you would even pick fault in that invincible team.we are where we are, we arent gonna be ripping up trees over night but we arent losing and that's a good start point,a solid back four is where it begins,artetas stripped us back and is starting again from what has been a total cluster fuck the last 15 years



Let's get things straight here for you and that other knob who keeps trolling me -

1. You should see that when I posted that link for the sun newspaper article, I did do with a laughing emoji at the end of it - I put that emoji there cos I found the article amusing rather than serious, and am not for one second giving any credence or respect to it cos comparisons like that are always subjective thus not a like for like comparison. The ONLY REASON I reposted it was in response to your claim that nobody in the meeja are questioning the job arteta is doing

2. I don't want arteta to fail at all - all things being equal I would be very on board with the club running with a new project involving a young manager and young hungry players. However we have to acknowledge that all things are not stable enough to embark on such a project, and we simply had to go with an experienced manager to steady the ship rather than an absolute rookie. That the board decided to appoint a novice/cheap manager that the can manipulate doesn't surprise me, but the fact that so many Gooners have blindly supported his performance to date has shocked me tbh

3. Imo people need to look at the bottom line here and accept that results have not been acceptable - some will point to perceived improved performances (especially defensively), but these games have been against palace, Sheffield united, Bournemouth and burnley ffs :roll: It is my belief that fans are being far from consistant here - if emery had produced this run of results AND performances, fans would be up in arms claiming them to be unacceptable (fair enough imo), but many of those Gooners are now championing arteta for those very same results and performances :? Those fans will defend arteta on the basis of the players he is being asked to turn around not being good enough ......... are they not the same players that emery was expected to do a lot better with ? I have long since argued that wenger and emery should have been doing better with the players at their disposal, and imo the same applies to arteta - they may not be top quality players, but they sure as shit are far better (on paper) than anything palace, burnley, Bournemouth etc have to offer, so the question remains as to why they haven't done better and what the manager should be doing better. I agree that artea HAS improved the team in some area's, but I also believe that the improvements have been minimal and nowhere near the level of improvements that should be expected. If we are all agreed (which I think we are) that turning around this team is a long term project then that is fair enough, but ffs please stop with this campaign of lauding arteta's performance simply cos you want it to be so, because the facts are that our results and improvements have been fcuk all (if at all), and we rarely look like winning a game these days.
Me trolling you lol, bojack you having your usual childish rants at me because I disagree with every inane thought you have that unfortunately you seem worth sharing.

As for the insults you will also find it's you that gets all keyboard warriorish like a 16 year old former Jeremy Kyle contestant.

Insults that you wouldn't say to me in a pub :roll: :lol:




Hypocritical d.ickhead - you refer to my insults when you were very mature with your name calling above ?? I have ignored your posts for a long time even when you tried baiting me, so how about you do the same from here on and we will both be happy.

As for the "you wouldn't say that to me in a pub" comment :roll: :coffeespit: :coffeespit:

LeftfootlegendGooner
Posts: 8163
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:07 pm

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby LeftfootlegendGooner » Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:09 pm






Did you read this article then buddy ? :rubchin:
Augie unless arteta or any other manager matches the invincibles you will still find fault, you are desperate for arteta to fail so that you can continue your misery for the club,I seriously think you would even pick fault in that invincible team.we are where we are, we arent gonna be ripping up trees over night but we arent losing and that's a good start point,a solid back four is where it begins,artetas stripped us back and is starting again from what has been a total cluster fuck the last 15 years



Let's get things straight here for you and that other knob who keeps trolling me -

1. You should see that when I posted that link for the sun newspaper article, I did do with a laughing emoji at the end of it - I put that emoji there cos I found the article amusing rather than serious, and am not for one second giving any credence or respect to it cos comparisons like that are always subjective thus not a like for like comparison. The ONLY REASON I reposted it was in response to your claim that nobody in the meeja are questioning the job arteta is doing

2. I don't want arteta to fail at all - all things being equal I would be very on board with the club running with a new project involving a young manager and young hungry players. However we have to acknowledge that all things are not stable enough to embark on such a project, and we simply had to go with an experienced manager to steady the ship rather than an absolute rookie. That the board decided to appoint a novice/cheap manager that the can manipulate doesn't surprise me, but the fact that so many Gooners have blindly supported his performance to date has shocked me tbh

3. Imo people need to look at the bottom line here and accept that results have not been acceptable - some will point to perceived improved performances (especially defensively), but these games have been against palace, Sheffield united, Bournemouth and burnley ffs :roll: It is my belief that fans are being far from consistant here - if emery had produced this run of results AND performances, fans would be up in arms claiming them to be unacceptable (fair enough imo), but many of those Gooners are now championing arteta for those very same results and performances :? Those fans will defend arteta on the basis of the players he is being asked to turn around not being good enough ......... are they not the same players that emery was expected to do a lot better with ? I have long since argued that wenger and emery should have been doing better with the players at their disposal, and imo the same applies to arteta - they may not be top quality players, but they sure as shit are far better (on paper) than anything palace, burnley, Bournemouth etc have to offer, so the question remains as to why they haven't done better and what the manager should be doing better. I agree that artea HAS improved the team in some area's, but I also believe that the improvements have been minimal and nowhere near the level of improvements that should be expected. If we are all agreed (which I think we are) that turning around this team is a long term project then that is fair enough, but ffs please stop with this campaign of lauding arteta's performance simply cos you want it to be so, because the facts are that our results and improvements have been fcuk all (if at all), and we rarely look like winning a game these days.
Me trolling you lol, bojack you having your usual childish rants at me because I disagree with every inane thought you have that unfortunately you seem worth sharing.

As for the insults you will also find it's you that gets all keyboard warriorish like a 16 year old former Jeremy Kyle contestant.

Insults that you wouldn't say to me in a pub :roll: :lol:




Hypocritical d.ickhead - you refer to my insults when you were very mature with your name calling above ?? I have ignored your posts for a long time even when you tried baiting me, so how about you do the same from here on and we will both be happy.

As for the "you wouldn't say that to me in a pub" comment :roll: :coffeespit: :coffeespit:
I've met you fella, you were a fat bald old man back then and definitely soft as shite, fuck knows what state you are in now, probably wheelchair bound :lol:

User avatar
augie
Posts: 25354
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:03 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby augie » Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:09 pm

The thing I find the most amusing is the two biggest moaners and complainers have posted on numerous occassions that neither actually watch many games! How can anyone offer a constructive view when you haven't seen it with your own eyes? Their opinions can only be based on other people's opinions or their own preconceptions. :lol:

I've got no time for that.

COYG :barscarf:




Name them - you are not referring to me cos I have on a few different occasions publicly sought for match links to be put up here, and are one of those that financially contributed for said service so that I could actually see the games live. If your comment was aimed at me then I suggest you check your facts first

User avatar
augie
Posts: 25354
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:03 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby augie » Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:11 pm


Augie unless arteta or any other manager matches the invincibles you will still find fault, you are desperate for arteta to fail so that you can continue your misery for the club,I seriously think you would even pick fault in that invincible team.we are where we are, we arent gonna be ripping up trees over night but we arent losing and that's a good start point,a solid back four is where it begins,artetas stripped us back and is starting again from what has been a total cluster fuck the last 15 years



Let's get things straight here for you and that other knob who keeps trolling me -

1. You should see that when I posted that link for the sun newspaper article, I did do with a laughing emoji at the end of it - I put that emoji there cos I found the article amusing rather than serious, and am not for one second giving any credence or respect to it cos comparisons like that are always subjective thus not a like for like comparison. The ONLY REASON I reposted it was in response to your claim that nobody in the meeja are questioning the job arteta is doing

2. I don't want arteta to fail at all - all things being equal I would be very on board with the club running with a new project involving a young manager and young hungry players. However we have to acknowledge that all things are not stable enough to embark on such a project, and we simply had to go with an experienced manager to steady the ship rather than an absolute rookie. That the board decided to appoint a novice/cheap manager that the can manipulate doesn't surprise me, but the fact that so many Gooners have blindly supported his performance to date has shocked me tbh

3. Imo people need to look at the bottom line here and accept that results have not been acceptable - some will point to perceived improved performances (especially defensively), but these games have been against palace, Sheffield united, Bournemouth and burnley ffs :roll: It is my belief that fans are being far from consistant here - if emery had produced this run of results AND performances, fans would be up in arms claiming them to be unacceptable (fair enough imo), but many of those Gooners are now championing arteta for those very same results and performances :? Those fans will defend arteta on the basis of the players he is being asked to turn around not being good enough ......... are they not the same players that emery was expected to do a lot better with ? I have long since argued that wenger and emery should have been doing better with the players at their disposal, and imo the same applies to arteta - they may not be top quality players, but they sure as shit are far better (on paper) than anything palace, burnley, Bournemouth etc have to offer, so the question remains as to why they haven't done better and what the manager should be doing better. I agree that artea HAS improved the team in some area's, but I also believe that the improvements have been minimal and nowhere near the level of improvements that should be expected. If we are all agreed (which I think we are) that turning around this team is a long term project then that is fair enough, but ffs please stop with this campaign of lauding arteta's performance simply cos you want it to be so, because the facts are that our results and improvements have been fcuk all (if at all), and we rarely look like winning a game these days.
Me trolling you lol, bojack you having your usual childish rants at me because I disagree with every inane thought you have that unfortunately you seem worth sharing.

As for the insults you will also find it's you that gets all keyboard warriorish like a 16 year old former Jeremy Kyle contestant.

Insults that you wouldn't say to me in a pub :roll: :lol:




Hypocritical d.ickhead - you refer to my insults when you were very mature with your name calling above ?? I have ignored your posts for a long time even when you tried baiting me, so how about you do the same from here on and we will both be happy.

As for the "you wouldn't say that to me in a pub" comment :roll: :coffeespit: :coffeespit:
I've met you fella, you were a fat bald old man back then and definitely soft as shite, fuck knows what state you are in now, probably wheelchair bound :lol:



and as I can recall you were a short arse at the time, and I doubt if you have grown much since - I am saying that cos I assume insulting people is ok with you know ? :roll:

LeftfootlegendGooner
Posts: 8163
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:07 pm

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby LeftfootlegendGooner » Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:20 pm






Let's get things straight here for you and that other knob who keeps trolling me -

1. You should see that when I posted that link for the sun newspaper article, I did do with a laughing emoji at the end of it - I put that emoji there cos I found the article amusing rather than serious, and am not for one second giving any credence or respect to it cos comparisons like that are always subjective thus not a like for like comparison. The ONLY REASON I reposted it was in response to your claim that nobody in the meeja are questioning the job arteta is doing

2. I don't want arteta to fail at all - all things being equal I would be very on board with the club running with a new project involving a young manager and young hungry players. However we have to acknowledge that all things are not stable enough to embark on such a project, and we simply had to go with an experienced manager to steady the ship rather than an absolute rookie. That the board decided to appoint a novice/cheap manager that the can manipulate doesn't surprise me, but the fact that so many Gooners have blindly supported his performance to date has shocked me tbh

3. Imo people need to look at the bottom line here and accept that results have not been acceptable - some will point to perceived improved performances (especially defensively), but these games have been against palace, Sheffield united, Bournemouth and burnley ffs :roll: It is my belief that fans are being far from consistant here - if emery had produced this run of results AND performances, fans would be up in arms claiming them to be unacceptable (fair enough imo), but many of those Gooners are now championing arteta for those very same results and performances :? Those fans will defend arteta on the basis of the players he is being asked to turn around not being good enough ......... are they not the same players that emery was expected to do a lot better with ? I have long since argued that wenger and emery should have been doing better with the players at their disposal, and imo the same applies to arteta - they may not be top quality players, but they sure as shit are far better (on paper) than anything palace, burnley, Bournemouth etc have to offer, so the question remains as to why they haven't done better and what the manager should be doing better. I agree that artea HAS improved the team in some area's, but I also believe that the improvements have been minimal and nowhere near the level of improvements that should be expected. If we are all agreed (which I think we are) that turning around this team is a long term project then that is fair enough, but ffs please stop with this campaign of lauding arteta's performance simply cos you want it to be so, because the facts are that our results and improvements have been fcuk all (if at all), and we rarely look like winning a game these days.
Me trolling you lol, bojack you having your usual childish rants at me because I disagree with every inane thought you have that unfortunately you seem worth sharing.

As for the insults you will also find it's you that gets all keyboard warriorish like a 16 year old former Jeremy Kyle contestant.

Insults that you wouldn't say to me in a pub :roll: :lol:




Hypocritical d.ickhead - you refer to my insults when you were very mature with your name calling above ?? I have ignored your posts for a long time even when you tried baiting me, so how about you do the same from here on and we will both be happy.

As for the "you wouldn't say that to me in a pub" comment :roll: :coffeespit: :coffeespit:
I've met you fella, you were a fat bald old man back then and definitely soft as shite, fuck knows what state you are in now, probably wheelchair bound :lol:



and as I can recall you were a short arse at the time, and I doubt if you have grown much since - I am saying that cos I assume insulting people is ok with you know ? :roll:
Yep only 5'8" with 16" guns, do you want a picture so you can get your missus moist :lol:

HerbertChapman
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:23 pm

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby HerbertChapman » Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:24 pm

Lighten up lads, my comment was very much tongue in cheek. Out with anger, in with love. :lol:

User avatar
augie
Posts: 25354
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:03 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby augie » Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:05 pm



Me trolling you lol, bojack you having your usual childish rants at me because I disagree with every inane thought you have that unfortunately you seem worth sharing.

As for the insults you will also find it's you that gets all keyboard warriorish like a 16 year old former Jeremy Kyle contestant.

Insults that you wouldn't say to me in a pub :roll: :lol:




Hypocritical d.ickhead - you refer to my insults when you were very mature with your name calling above ?? I have ignored your posts for a long time even when you tried baiting me, so how about you do the same from here on and we will both be happy.

As for the "you wouldn't say that to me in a pub" comment :roll: :coffeespit: :coffeespit:
I've met you fella, you were a fat bald old man back then and definitely soft as shite, fuck knows what state you are in now, probably wheelchair bound :lol:



and as I can recall you were a short arse at the time, and I doubt if you have grown much since - I am saying that cos I assume insulting people is ok with you know ? :roll:
Yep only 5'8" with 16" guns, do you want a picture so you can get your missus moist :lol:




Give me 5 minutes to climb off your mother and I will send her a text to ask her :lol: :lol:

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herbert
Posts: 490
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:25 am
Location: london

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby herbert » Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:06 pm

He has our away support following him so blindly that the Mustafi chant could be heard at Bournemouth and Burnley :lol: :barscarf:

Arteta deserves the same time and patience we showed to Emery, we have a good history with ex players has manager so I am hoping that
he steadys the ship gives it a good go in the cups and a climb up the league table and then start of next season with Saliba and any new signings,Tierney and others fit from injury we can start to judge him better

We can all moan groan bitch all we like and we can give him our support all we like the success/failure will be if there is no improvement at the start of next season and if the answer is No he will be gone

HerbertChapman
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:23 pm

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Postby HerbertChapman » Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:07 pm

The thing I find the most amusing is the two biggest moaners and complainers have posted on numerous occassions that neither actually watch many games! How can anyone offer a constructive view when you haven't seen it with your own eyes? Their opinions can only be based on other people's opinions or their own preconceptions. :lol:

I've got no time for that.

COYG :barscarf:




Name them - you are not referring to me cos I have on a few different occasions publicly sought for match links to be put up here, and are one of those that financially contributed for said service so that I could actually see the games live. If your comment was aimed at me then I suggest you check your facts first
Facts checked and verified. Asking from streams isn't quite the same as watching streams is it. :wink: :lol: :lol:


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