Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

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Will he ?

Have a statue erected after 30 glorious years service?
6
10%
Be a success, pick up a few trophies and put the club back on an even keel?
20
32%
Be a moderate success, before handing over to a more high profile successor?
15
24%
Be an utter fucking disaster?
22
35%
 
Total votes: 63

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SteveO 35
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by SteveO 35 »

I love the way people bring up the Europa League final, forgetting

(a) Wenger made 2 European finals in 22 years and lost them both
(b) His last final was that absolute clusterfuck against City in the League Cup, where we barely registered a shot and got absolutely whomped as usual (a bit like the other night to be honest)

Find me ANY manager at the moment to take over a team who have spent a decade celebrating failure, with a wage bill loaded with Joe Average c.unts, and get them within a point of the CL......oh yeah, on a budget of £40m.

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goonersid
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by goonersid »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:58 am
I love the way people bring up the Europa League final, forgetting

(a) Wenger made 2 European finals in 22 years and lost them both
(b) His last final was that absolute clusterfuck against City in the League Cup, where we barely registered a shot and got absolutely whomped as usual (a bit like the other night to be honest)

Find me ANY manager at the moment to take over a team who have spent a decade celebrating failure, with a wage bill loaded with Joe Average c.unts, and get them within a point of the CL......oh yeah, on a budget of £40m.
Yeah, let’s not mention it, cos it didnt really happen, it was all just a bad dream!
As for wenger? I was calling for his head on here long before you were!
And where have you been mate ? I’ve missed you :wink:

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northbank123
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by northbank123 »

I still can’t figure out what his philosophy is, what our strategy is or who he even rates.

It is increasingly like Mourinho at United where he made 3+ changes every game without any thought as to tactics or shape.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by goonersid »

augie wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:07 am
goonersid wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:08 am
augie wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:31 am
SteveO 35 wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:18 pm
Bob Bayliss wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:55 am
We have not progressed under Teflon. Arguably, we are in a worse position than we were at the equivalent stage under Emery, in the sense that we are now touch and go for a Europa Cup spot, rather than simply struggling to compete for top four.

I had two main concerns about his appointment. Firstly, that he lacked top-level experience, other than as Pep's cone-man. Secondly, that everything we knew about him from his playing days suggested that he was not equipped to transform the lightweight, easy-on-the-eye but ultimately inconsequential style of play that has plagued the Club since the invincibles team was dismantled. Those who cited George Graham as an example of how a poacher could turn gamekeeper ignored Graham's impressive apprenticeship at Millwall and the fact that for all his languor as a player he had much more steel about him than the current incumbent appears to possess. There are some other crucial differences: Graham also inherited a very talented clutch of young players. The likes of Willock, Nelson, Nketia and Maitland-Niles are not the heirs of Adams, Rocastle, Thomas and Merson. He also wasted no time in getting shot of the likes of Charlie Nic and Woodcock. I can't imagine Ozil would still have been stinking the place out with GG at the helm.

So I will call it now: Arteta was and remains a dreadful appointment, the antithesis of what we need to transform the club.
We are at the same stage as we were before GG was appointed - an also ran team capable of the odd cup run, miles away from winning the league and full of journeymen who’ve had better days elsewhere

Perhaps all the mocking of my suggestions of Sean Dyche look a bit daft now, when we’ve appointed a tiki taka coach to manage a team unable to string three passes together

It’s not arguable that we’re worse off than we were under Emery - its absolutely undeniable through any stat you want to look at.... league position, win ratio, goals scored

The club is truly getting what it deserved - Emery was on a terrible run but the greater good was that Ozil, Mustafi and Xhaka were firmly on the way out on the back of all the other shite like Cech, Elneny, Welbeck etc that we’re already gone

We survived 10 years of Wenger post lobotomy but couldn’t afford the next guy 2 years to complete a rebuild

Got what we deserved - a coach miles out of his depth trying to be Manchester City with players more like Bristol City



Amen to all that 8)

The highlighted part is the stand out for me - getting shot of those players (plus lard arse iwobi) should have merited a statue outside the stadium for emery imo, but instead he got the tin tack at the first sign of trouble :roll: When wrighty got rid of rioch all those years ago I was disgusted if I'm honest - the difference between then and now is that wrighty was a consistant performer who had played no small part in bringing success to the club since he signed, and that brought him respect and standing. C.unts like xhaka and ozil and mustafi havent just been a part in our failures and capitulations ....... they have been core fundamental parts of it, and yet they have been allowed to undermine a manager and get him sacked :evil: The board sided with them cos the players are valuable commodities (debatable I know :roll: ), but for the fans to show loyalty to players that have constantly let them down disgusts me, and proves to me that fans are continuing to play a big part in the demise of our club.

I'm not gonna stand here this morning and declare that emery was king and everything he did was right - his tactics away v the victims still angers me to this day and maybe always will. What I will say though, is that he inherited an absolute shitfest from the senile old cock and had quickly identified that some of our players were useless c.unts and was well on his way to ridding our club of them (cech, armenian pussy, lard arse iwobi, el ninny, wellshit, with xhaka, ozil and mustafi being squeezed too). He had brought young players like saka and martinelli through and was rebuilding with young hungry players. I see emery critic fans still to this day complaining about the shit players arteta has to work with, and only players like martinelli, sako, torreira and leno being praised by the fans, and they were all emery players. If the club and fans waited 6 more months to get rid of xhaka, ozil and mustafi and then sacked emery, then maybe I would feel a small bit better about the situation - now we have an unqualified guy in charge who immediately restored said players to the starting line-up, and it looks like we are never gonna get shot of them :roll:
Absolute bullshit!
Agreed, Arteta doesn’t appear to be the answer.
To suggest that Emery was anything other than incapable tactically bereft clown, is merely a “toys out if the pram I told you so tantrum” and quite frankly absurd!
Remember the bizarre team selections, the embarrassing europa final, the inability to scrape the lge win against bottom of the table shite, that would have secured clge football and all but bankrupt sperz in the process,
Augie, the Rioch comparison is comparable only in that both he and Emery were taking us nowhere, I know he had a fallout with Wrighty, but his treatment of Wright was disgraceful. Backed up in Tony Adams’ book.
As for player power forcing Emery out??
Sword of Damocles, I’d say, since it was he who bestowed them that power, in allowing them to choose “his” captain, because he was too weak to take the responsibility, that’s when he lost their respect as a man, I think he had already lost their respect as a coach!
Based on both your arguements, it wouldn’t be unrealistic to suggest we bring Wenger back!
I’ve no doubt he would have gotten us over the line, like so many times before in those final few games.
I have grave doubts over Arteta, but bar a few loan signings NONE of this squad are his players!! So given that this arguement was used continually to defend Emery (despite 8 signings at start of his first season) then I feel it’s only fair that Arteta be afforded the same defence!
We are in a bad place at the minute, in every area of the club and at 56 I doubt I will see another title win in my lifetime, unless we are taken over by a rich and thrifty owner.



Sid, before I respond to some of your points, let me say that your point that I highlighted was the core point of what I was saying 8)

I said in my post that I dont feel that emery was king, and I knew all along that he wasnt going to be the long term answer, but for me he was the right man at the right time for what we wanted - we wanted someone to come in and clear out all the shite that the french cock accumulated in latter years. If you remember back long before emery was appointed, I continually said that I didnt need the next manager to be THE manager, and if they gave him all of this season to remove a few more duds before sacking him, then that would have met 90% of my requirements for wenger's successor.
There is no hiding the fact that our run in at the end of last season was unacceptable, and his team selection for the palace game at the grove was a disgrace, and it was that game that cost us top 4 imo. I already pointed out my anger at his tactics in scouseland, so I know that he had several weaknesses that he needed to sort out. My points re emery werent so much lauding him as much as pointing out that replacing him with arteta was a shocking decision. You point out that emery made 8 signings, but most of those signings are now the core part of the team and that tells me that his recruitments were putting the club in the right direction.
Re my point about rioch, I know what rioch was signing to wrighty and I agree that it was both laughable and disgraceful - my point was that back then the board was always gonna side with players who were producing for the club against a manager who had done nothing for the club. Last season emery had got the club to a european final and within a whisker of top 4, and was entitled to more backing that c.unts like ozil and xhaka who have been dogshit for us for years, and yet so many fans backed the players, and that disgusted me.
Augie, being humiliated in a final isn’t an achievement and finishing 5th when 4th was in our own hands for more or less the last 5 games of the season, was nothing other than failure.
On his first batch of signings. only Leno and the hapless Guendozi are regulars, Torreira has been poor for 18 months and has wanted away.
I dont think the board or fans “sided” with the players, the stick xhaka got being an example.
The captain has to be somebody the manager can trust, take into his confidence, pull players up, be a first name in the teamsheet every week, even be feared by other players in case he might report any slacking or criticism of the manager.
Emery allowed the players to pick “their” man.
It isolated him from his own squad, possibly left him with a captain who on performances up until being made captain, might have been becoming surplus to his own plans!
Emery was weak, out of his depth, tactically and in man management.
I believe when the board finally summoned him, they saw a man secretly wishing to be put out of his misery!
I’m worried about Arteta, but will give him the benefit of one proper transfer window and 3-6 months after that, in order to see where he is trying to take us!

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SteveO 35
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by SteveO 35 »

goonersid wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:02 pm
SteveO 35 wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:58 am
I love the way people bring up the Europa League final, forgetting

(a) Wenger made 2 European finals in 22 years and lost them both
(b) His last final was that absolute clusterfuck against City in the League Cup, where we barely registered a shot and got absolutely whomped as usual (a bit like the other night to be honest)

Find me ANY manager at the moment to take over a team who have spent a decade celebrating failure, with a wage bill loaded with Joe Average c.unts, and get them within a point of the CL......oh yeah, on a budget of £40m.
Yeah, let’s not mention it, cos it didnt really happen, it was all just a bad dream!
As for wenger? I was calling for his head on here long before you were!
And where have you been mate ? I’ve missed you :wink:
I'm still here Sid - don't worry :D

The pleasing thing about replacing Emery of course, was appointing the genius that is Arteta. 5 mins left against a team who haven't won in 2020, and he takes off the three most creative players on the field and brings on Tierney, Nelson and Willock :D :D :D

People say Emery made baffling choices - PMSL. Give Arteta a 5 year deal - genius !

Bob Bayliss
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by Bob Bayliss »

Time to put this lightweight firmly under the microscope. He needs to go in the short break between this season and next.

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SteveO 35
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by SteveO 35 »

The only manager's job he'd be good at would be managing the old fellas walking football team in the Barclays advert - from the evidence of the past 2 games he's mastered that particular brand of football.

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SteveO 35
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by SteveO 35 »

Where's all this nonsense now about him being such a student of the game and meticulous in his preparations? We've come back from the same break as everyone else woefully under cooked, unfit, with players playing the game at walking pace

How comes Brighton and Man City have fitter and hungrier players?

These are questions any self respecting Director of Football and 'super coach' should be being asked and made accountable for.

Go out against Sheffield United then do the decent fucking thing - piss off and admit the job's too big for you

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by OneBardGooner »

I have to own up to choosing option 2:

Be a success, pick up a few trophies and put the club back on an even keel?

Maybe it was more out of hopeful desperation than any sense of genuine optimistic belief. :oops:

I am now having Very Serious Doubts; yes he inherited a Mess but after what seemed to be an initial change in players attitudes, and what appeared like an improvement in our game - it is collapsing unto what can only be thought of as an utter shambles ... How long before he's gone I wonder..?

Mind you with the wig wearing cuntbag and his smirking eat shitt and smile son - they may well keep him in place while we head for the relegation zone next season.

No wonder Saka is not signing a new contract (yet). And as for Martinelli who has been our best outfield player, I mean what the fuckk does he have to do to get a game???

:cussing: :box: :banghead:

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by falkirk goon »

I voted that he would be a total disaster..he is turning out to be just that,hes fucking terrible :oops: he was a beige player and he is a beige(runny) manager.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by nut flush gooner »

I have concerns for Arteta right now, only 2 games back from the break he finds himself in the middle of a big crisis. Top 4 has gone, and to be honest I don't want us to qualify for the Europa League, its a shitty little excuse for a tournament.

Arteta, it seems has fallen out with Ozil. He (Ozil) now has form with pretty much every manager he's played for with the exception of Wenger who didn't give a shit what he did. I honestly believe that things won't improve until Ozil leaves the club, he is pure poison.

Team selections seem all over the place, for the life of me I don't get why Martinelli didn't get a look in unless he's started misbehaving himself.

I saw Wolves put in another impressive performance yesterday, Nuno would have been perfect for Arsenal but we have to persevere with Arteta for at least another season. Who honestly would want to manage this bunch of jokers.

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Nos89
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by Nos89 »

My huge concern is not with arteta, it is with the board, Will they support him? Have they told him to filter out the "international" stars because the club is skint?
His comment about Auba's contract was very telling. He said something along the lines of I want him to stay, its up to the club to make him feel wanted. I always thought the manager was the club. He's obviously been told to forget transfer targets, you'll get what you get given. This will kill the club in the long run.
In my opinion, he should be allowed to filter through the squad and establish who he can trust and keep. He worked with Nelson, Nketiah, willock and AMN when he was doing his coaching badges and knows their talents. Admittedly, we are not getting relegated, we are not hitting top 4, we do have a shot at the FA Cup. He must be given the time, without criticism, for the remainder of this season to tinker with the team to make sure we are stronger and better next season. His only target for the league is to finish above totteringham.

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SteveO 35
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by SteveO 35 »

Sadly there isn't an option to say "worst manager in the 42 years I've been watching the club" because sure as night follows day, that's the way this one is ending up

Who needs an experienced manager to steady a sinking ship when you can appoint somebody with zero managerial experience

The only reason there isn't widespread outrage is because he isn't English. I guarantee if a 37 year old Englishman had been given the job and produced similar results so far, 90% of the fan base would be calling out his tactical naivety, especially when we lost in the Europa League. I can almost hear the old "lack of European experience" chestnut - but it doesn't apply to Mikel because he's Spanish and worked for Pep, so by default must be a genius. I'm sure he produced a nice powerpoint presentation during the application process there and threw the odd word like "philosophy" and "identity" to get the soccerball board all impressed with his know how.

Its truly outrageous that the Arsenal have appointed a bloke with no managerial experience. Just think about that in any other walk of business life - a company in distress appointing someone with no managerial experience to lead out of it

Truly embarrassing our club at the moment

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augie
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by augie »

Nos89 wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:06 am
My huge concern is not with arteta, it is with the board, Will they support him? Have they told him to filter out the "international" stars because the club is skint?
His comment about Auba's contract was very telling. He said something along the lines of I want him to stay, its up to the club to make him feel wanted. I always thought the manager was the club. He's obviously been told to forget transfer targets, you'll get what you get given. This will kill the club in the long run.
In my opinion, he should be allowed to filter through the squad and establish who he can trust and keep. He worked with Nelson, Nketiah, willock and AMN when he was doing his coaching badges and knows their talents. Admittedly, we are not getting relegated, we are not hitting top 4, we do have a shot at the FA Cup. He must be given the time, without criticism, for the remainder of this season to tinker with the team to make sure we are stronger and better next season. His only target for the league is to finish above totteringham.



The problem with that is that what exactly what emery was doing when he got axed - I would go so far as to say that he was doing an exceptional job of turfing out the sub-standard shit we had when he joined us first, and was well on his way to removing the last serious cancers we have in the club. He was doing much better than arteta is and that still didnt save him, so why should arteta be treated any differently ?

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Nos89
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by Nos89 »

augie wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:25 am
Nos89 wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:06 am
My huge concern is not with arteta, it is with the board, Will they support him? Have they told him to filter out the "international" stars because the club is skint?
His comment about Auba's contract was very telling. He said something along the lines of I want him to stay, its up to the club to make him feel wanted. I always thought the manager was the club. He's obviously been told to forget transfer targets, you'll get what you get given. This will kill the club in the long run.
In my opinion, he should be allowed to filter through the squad and establish who he can trust and keep. He worked with Nelson, Nketiah, willock and AMN when he was doing his coaching badges and knows their talents. Admittedly, we are not getting relegated, we are not hitting top 4, we do have a shot at the FA Cup. He must be given the time, without criticism, for the remainder of this season to tinker with the team to make sure we are stronger and better next season. His only target for the league is to finish above totteringham.



The problem with that is that what exactly what emery was doing when he got axed - I would go so far as to say that he was doing an exceptional job of turfing out the sub-standard shit we had when he joined us first, and was well on his way to removing the last serious cancers we have in the club. He was doing much better than arteta is and that still didnt save him, so why should arteta be treated any differently ?
Agree, Emery was doing a proper good job of shifting through the deadwood. There is not a transfer out of the club I did not disagree with. It is still early days with Arteta, and he was getting to grips with the squad before the season got postponed. However, it is June and players contracts are finishing and no doubt some wanted to move. The issues being highlighted in the media over the last 2/3 weeks, build up to transfer window would normally occur after the season finished but due to covid-19 , we are still finishing it off, and i believe it is having a terrible effect on the squad.
I actually miss the days when we didn't have a clue what was going on inside the club, business was done in a proper manner. There is a mole or two at the club, destabilising it and they need to be smoked out and got rid of. Since, we've moved to the director of football structure nothing stays within the club walls.

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