Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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Will he ?

Have a statue erected after 30 glorious years service?
4
7%
Be a success, pick up a few trophies and put the club back on an even keel?
19
32%
Be a moderate success, before handing over to a more high profile successor?
15
25%
Be an utter fucking disaster?
22
37%
 
Total votes: 60

nut flush gooner
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by nut flush gooner »

augie wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:12 pm
nut flush gooner wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:08 pm
Wednesday might have been a bit of a freak result but no doubt today was the real deal.

The club has to back Arteta. He is improving bang average players, what could he do with a bit of class to complement our attack.



Which one's exactly ? Dunno about you but I have seen many howlers from mustafi, luiz and xhaka both before arteta arrived and since he took over, so tell me what average player is he improving ??

Fcuk me we dont half get carried away with one (outstanding) result :oops: :oops:
I knew that few line would get a response from you Augie.

How can you honestly not say that over time Xhaka has not improved, he was that defensive shield we needed last night. Luiz was immense certainly playing miles better than in the league game vs City.

Mustafi made some big errors last weekend, but overall has got more secure.

It's almost as if you have an agenda now where you want Arteta to fail just to prove a point. As things stand Arteta has the team onside, has dealt with the dissenters and now tactically out thought arguably the best manager in the world over the last 10 years.

He needs to be backed by the board, but don't have a go at him before he even has a chance to impose himself on the team and put his side out. That's just being fickle in my book.

I will reiterate Arteta wasn't my choice it was Nuno a top draw manager who people ridiculed on here. Despite that it was a bold move by the board to put a rookie like Arteta in, but we could have done a lot worse.

Bob Bayliss
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by Bob Bayliss »

I've been very critical of Arteta, and while one swallow certainly doesn't make a summer I have to credit him for the performance last night. I can pay no higher compliment than that I could have been watching a George Graham team. They were prepared, motivated, disciplined. That was a real throwback to before Wenger, and I loved it. Let's wait to see if turns out to be a one-off or the start of a new era. He's certainly earned a few more months to bring in quality reinforcements.

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shu
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by shu »

I do think there are signs that Arteta has more tactical ideas than the last two . He does need some money to improve this squad and I still think any team with Xhaka , Mustafi and luiz in at every prone to suicide errors .

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augie
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by augie »

nut flush gooner wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:40 am
augie wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:12 pm
nut flush gooner wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:08 pm
Wednesday might have been a bit of a freak result but no doubt today was the real deal.

The club has to back Arteta. He is improving bang average players, what could he do with a bit of class to complement our attack.



Which one's exactly ? Dunno about you but I have seen many howlers from mustafi, luiz and xhaka both before arteta arrived and since he took over, so tell me what average player is he improving ??

Fcuk me we dont half get carried away with one (outstanding) result :oops: :oops:
I knew that few line would get a response from you Augie.

How can you honestly not say that over time Xhaka has not improved, he was that defensive shield we needed last night. Luiz was immense certainly playing miles better than in the league game vs City.

Mustafi made some big errors last weekend, but overall has got more secure.

It's almost as if you have an agenda now where you want Arteta to fail just to prove a point. As things stand Arteta has the team onside, has dealt with the dissenters and now tactically out thought arguably the best manager in the world over the last 10 years.

He needs to be backed by the board, but don't have a go at him before he even has a chance to impose himself on the team and put his side out. That's just being fickle in my book.

I will reiterate Arteta wasn't my choice it was Nuno a top draw manager who people ridiculed on here. Despite that it was a bold move by the board to put a rookie like Arteta in, but we could have done a lot worse.



Firstly, and this is not aimed at you as such, but it is very easy on here to label someone as having an agenda against a manager/player/the club itself, just because they dont buy into certain narratives being put forward by the majority, and have the audacity to express their opposition. Recently I have been in a regular debate with several posters on the merits of guendouzi, but at no stage have I ever suggested that any of those posters have an agenda against the young french kid - contrasting opinions doesnt mean that people want different end products, and in our case that is a club that once again is challenging for and winning the top prizes

As regards arteta I will still say that I have zero faith in the guy as a manager - last night was the type of performance that I have wanted for such a long time, but it comes just 16 days after a piss poor game against the scum. What is it that changed ? 10 of last night's team started that game, and the system/formation remained the same, so what made last night's performance different ? The difference for me was that last night the application and concentration was bang on from the players almost from minute one, and that is a rarity I can tell you. Do I expect arteta to get that out of them every week ? No I do not because some are simply not good enough and I wont blame arteta for that, but what I will blame arteta for is this unexplainable faith he is showing in players like mustafi and xhaka ahead of holding and torreira (and I am only using them as an example), despite numerous fcuk ups. Two weeks ago luiz was the biggest c.unt ever to play for the club (according to some), and now last night he is a born again quality player ? Do me a favour

The thing about backing arteta in the transfer market is that I have no trust in his judgement of players - some are saying the guy needs time to put his own stamp on the team and that is fair enough, but how can I have faith in a guy that rates mustafi as better than holding (again I am using only one example) ? Most of you seem to have this puzzling belief that arteta will go out and buy players to replace the likes of mustafi and xhaka, where as I believe that he will be going out to buy players to play WITH these players. Surely any manager would be selling the players he doesnt rate (holding, torreira, guendouzi etc) ahead of selling the players that he picks every week ? We are not in a financial place where we can offload all of the aforementioned players, so how will the arteta supporters feel when he stays loyal to the players most want gone out of our club ?

Let's be honest here ......... on paper we have a team that most weeks isnt fit to play on the same pitch as citeeh and the victims, but yet we have beaten both in the last 5 days. We have been extremely fortunate that the victims have been in snooze mode since the league was won, and yesterday was the poorest performance that citeeh have turned in for a looong time. That being said, I care more about what our players and team do, and last night was a very refreshing and welcome throwback to the days when we played with guts and resilience, and it made me proud again to be a Gooner after so many capitulations and lame ass surrenders 8)

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GoonerMuzz
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by GoonerMuzz »

Credit where it's due last night both he and the players got things spot on, we can gripe about the team selection and disagree all we want but for whatever reason it came together properly last night.

However!!! What boils my piss more than anything is those players just proved against probably the best team in the league that they can stand rock solid, barring one or two minor mistakes which let's face it even GGs best teams could occasionally make, so this proves beyond a doubt that some of those players are coasting week in week out. We lost to Brighton and Spuds and drew with Leicester with only minor changes to the team.

This is not a vindication of Arteta's appointment however against Liverpool, with a huge dose of luck, and against Shitty with the right mindset and application these players managed to prove that in singular games Arteta's ideas can work. Now he has to improve his squad and prove they can work across a season. Can he do it? I am yet to be convinced but I am willing to give him a chance.

What worries me yet again is whether a novice Coach can convince the Wiggy C u n t to loosen the purse strings fully, again I am doubtful. I can also see these two performances having a negative effect on squad improvement, after all the poor players we complain about week in week out have just beaten the two best teams in the league, going on to win the Cup which I fucking love could actually be a massive poisoned chalice in terms of transfers.

I am still do be convinced that Arteta has a huge say in recruitment either and I genuinely believe for him to be able to apply his doctrine and playing style he needs the players that he wants, not ones chosen by Edu and Raul, in this this transfer window and it could therefore be telling in more ways than one how it turns out :rubchin:

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DB10GOONER
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by DB10GOONER »

I don't see this "improvement" that some of you guys see tbh. We have been gash all season, and recently gash against the scum, and if we are being honest pretty gash against a victims* team that have nothing left to play for and are already on the beach.

Last night we got it right against a poor citeh performance. That to me is the honest truth. It's not a new dawn yet. It was a one off performance where we rode our luck a bit and fought hard to defend.

I really enjoyed it and give full credit to Arteta and the players.

But the reality is that Xhakatard apart from a few good interceptions was still caught out of position too often and still pissed away posession too often when we needed to hold on to it.

Mustafalaugh gave everything but still made stupid choices that could have given citeh a couple of pennos on another night.

Luiz was like a rock in defence yet who would honestly bet against him scoring an own goal then getting sent off stupidly in the final? Anyone?

AMN worked hard but got rinsed too often out wide and has no end product. His crossing is as bad as Cliche's ever was.

Hillier mk2 came on and went into instant invisible passenger mode and watched the game pass him by - like he does 99% of the time.

It was one great team performance and a hard fought win that made us all proud of the Arsenal but it was a one off and we had some luck too. Let's not get carried away.

For me Arteta still has it all to do. No "agenda" here - I didn't want him as manager but I hope he has huge success, as I hoped Dick and Freddie and Wenger before him would have.

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augie
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by augie »

We'll see if you get the same backlash I get for posting the exact same thing :rubchin: :roll:

nut flush gooner
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by nut flush gooner »

augie wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:04 pm
We'll see if you get the same backlash I get for posting the exact same thing :rubchin: :roll:
Do you honestly think I won't go in hard but fair on a mod? Give me 24 hours I've been on the sauce and enjoying the cricket this afternoon!

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augie
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by augie »

nut flush gooner wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:12 pm
augie wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:04 pm
We'll see if you get the same backlash I get for posting the exact same thing :rubchin: :roll:
Do you honestly think I won't go in hard but fair on a mod? Give me 24 hours I've been on the sauce and enjoying the cricket this afternoon!



Wasnt actually talking about you buddy - I may not agree with everything you say (nor vice versa I'm sure :wink: ), but you will argue your point forcibly without judging people that dont agree with you.

nut flush gooner
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by nut flush gooner »

augie wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:29 pm
nut flush gooner wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:12 pm
augie wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:04 pm
We'll see if you get the same backlash I get for posting the exact same thing :rubchin: :roll:
Do you honestly think I won't go in hard but fair on a mod? Give me 24 hours I've been on the sauce and enjoying the cricket this afternoon!



Wasnt actually talking about you buddy - I may not agree with everything you say (nor vice versa I'm sure :wink: ), but you will argue your point forcibly without judging people that dont agree with you.
Well I am saying this with a skin full of booze down me you do talk a lot of sense just I disagree with you about a few minor things lately, this being one of them.

gooner265
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by gooner265 »

augie wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:04 pm
We'll see if you get the same backlash I get for posting the exact same thing :rubchin: :roll:
The difference is Db has given credit to Arteta but you can't seem to be able to . You even said he picked the wrong team when we win 2-0 there is no logic in that statement ? It just seems personal to my eyes and if it was allegri or someone with the same results they would be getting half the stick which I find sad.
The guy clearly loves the club , is passionate and giving his all to try and change things and deserves a bit of slack.

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DB10GOONER
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by DB10GOONER »

Personally I like Arteta. Loved him as a player for us in his first two seasons when he was the only reliable DM at the club. He did the simple things and read the game well - and got practically zero credit on here.

I think as a manager he knows what he wants to do but unfortunately I don't think he has the players to do it. I'd have liked him to come in as our manager about 5 years from now after getting experience as a manager elsewhere.

But he's here now with it all to prove. I hope he succeeds.

If he does rebuild this team it will be the greatest rebuild since GG took over and that is saying something.

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augie
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by augie »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:52 am
Personally I like Arteta. Loved him as a player for us in his first two seasons when he was the only reliable DM at the club. He did the simple things and read the game well - and got practically zero credit on here.

I think as a manager he knows what he wants to do but unfortunately I don't think he has the players to do it. I'd have liked him to come in as our manager about 5 years from now after getting experience as a manager elsewhere.

But he's here now with it all to prove. I hope he succeeds.

If he does rebuild this team it will be the greatest rebuild since GG took over and that is saying something.



I was one of those that liked him as a player too, but I believe that he isnt up to this job, and I absolutely hate the way he is going about it

Here is the thing for me - to do a proper rebuild of this size requires more of a long term view than a short sighted one. It requires getting shot of those who have continually showed themselves to be not up to the job, and then building around a nucleus of younger players who will be coming into their prime in 2 or 3 seasons time. My views on this have been consistent on this long before emery or arteta was appointed - I continually said that the next manager after wenger didnt need to be THE guy for us, and indeed the manager after that didnt need to be either, as long as the club had a proper plan to flush out the shit and rebuild from an almost blank canvas. The one thing I continually give emery credit for is that he was committed to that plan and then arteta came in and reinstated the shit that was almost out the door. I honestly dont care if guendouzi is the answer or not, but I will bet my bollox that xhaka aint, and I would rather fail with young lads who MIGHT turn out to be good enough, than fail with players that we know are not good enough. For me, arteta straight away starting appeasing these older players to (a) make sure that they didnt undermine him (b) try and win in the short-term - neither reason works for me

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the playing mantis
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by the playing mantis »

augie wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:34 am


I was one of those that liked him as a player too, but I believe that he isnt up to this job, and I absolutely hate the way he is going about it

Here is the thing for me - to do a proper rebuild of this size requires more of a long term view than a short sighted one. It requires getting shot of those who have continually showed themselves to be not up to the job, and then building around a nucleus of younger players who will be coming into their prime in 2 or 3 seasons time. My views on this have been consistent on this long before emery or arteta was appointed - I continually said that the next manager after wenger didnt need to be THE guy for us, and indeed the manager after that didnt need to be either, as long as the club had a proper plan to flush out the shit and rebuild from an almost blank canvas. The one thing I continually give emery credit for is that he was committed to that plan and then arteta came in and reinstated the shit that was almost out the door. I honestly dont care if guendouzi is the answer or not, but I will bet my bollox that xhaka aint, and I would rather fail with young lads who MIGHT turn out to be good enough, than fail with players that we know are not good enough. For me, arteta straight away starting appeasing these older players to (a) make sure that they didnt undermine him (b) try and win in the short-term - neither reason works for me
But wasnt Unai the one who gace Xhaka a new contract?

also dont want to pile on with OBG and G88ner but any chance of a bit more spacing/line breaks...just makes it easier to read!

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rodders999
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by rodders999 »

I suppose the biggest difference between myself and Augie (besides my devilish good looks and massive penis) is that I'm not majorly arsed about the current starting lineup bar 3 players - Martinez, Tierney and Auba.

They're the first three names on any team-sheet for me (maybe I'd throw in Saka and Lacazette) but after that it's much of a muchness.

Should Holding start ahead of Side Show or Musatfi? Meh, Holding's played well in parts since coming back but he's also been horrendous in games, especially his passing and has gotten nowhere near the level he was at pre-injury. Any one out of those three may play well, poorly or absolute shite so who gets the nod is almost irrelevant as far as I'm concerned as a better quality center back is needed at the club BADLY.

Similar situation in midfield with Torriera, coming back from a nasty enough injury and still looks well off the pace. I thought he'd turned a corner after the cameo at Wolves where he was excellent, turning up all over the pitch to get tackles in and closing down the space but he's been pretty much anonymous every other time I've seen him. Maybe he's not match fit or maybe, if reports are to be believed, he's pining for a return to Italy but he doesn't seem right to me at all. Could AMN play that role? Possibly, but again that's an area of the pitch that has to be strengthened this summer.

I'd be happy enough with 3 signings this summer, a center back (in addition to Saliba), a central midfielder to boss the show and a number 10 play-maker. Those are the stand out areas that need addressing and until they are who starts ahead of who basically doesn't really matter (to me anyway 8) )

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