Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

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Will he ?

Have a statue erected after 30 glorious years service?
4
7%
Be a success, pick up a few trophies and put the club back on an even keel?
19
32%
Be a moderate success, before handing over to a more high profile successor?
15
25%
Be an utter fucking disaster?
22
37%
 
Total votes: 60

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augie
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by augie »

the playing mantis wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:01 pm
augie wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:34 am


I was one of those that liked him as a player too, but I believe that he isnt up to this job, and I absolutely hate the way he is going about it

Here is the thing for me - to do a proper rebuild of this size requires more of a long term view than a short sighted one. It requires getting shot of those who have continually showed themselves to be not up to the job, and then building around a nucleus of younger players who will be coming into their prime in 2 or 3 seasons time. My views on this have been consistent on this long before emery or arteta was appointed - I continually said that the next manager after wenger didnt need to be THE guy for us, and indeed the manager after that didnt need to be either, as long as the club had a proper plan to flush out the shit and rebuild from an almost blank canvas. The one thing I continually give emery credit for is that he was committed to that plan and then arteta came in and reinstated the shit that was almost out the door. I honestly dont care if guendouzi is the answer or not, but I will bet my bollox that xhaka aint, and I would rather fail with young lads who MIGHT turn out to be good enough, than fail with players that we know are not good enough. For me, arteta straight away starting appeasing these older players to (a) make sure that they didnt undermine him (b) try and win in the short-term - neither reason works for me
But wasnt Unai the one who gace Xhaka a new contract?

also dont want to pile on with OBG and G88ner but any chance of a bit more spacing/line breaks...just makes it easier to read!



To answer your question my belief is no in the same way I believe that MOST of the signings under emery were actually mislintat signings - if you recall, when emery was appointed the club was at pains to say that emery was the "head coach" (as opposed to manager), so I am assuming that most contracts and signings are above the head of the manager

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augie
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by augie »

rodders999 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:22 pm
I suppose the biggest difference between myself and Augie (besides my devilish good looks and massive penis) is that I'm not majorly arsed about the current starting lineup bar 3 players - Martinez, Tierney and Auba.

They're the first three names on any team-sheet for me (maybe I'd throw in Saka and Lacazette) but after that it's much of a muchness.

Should Holding start ahead of Side Show or Musatfi? Meh, Holding's played well in parts since coming back but he's also been horrendous in games, especially his passing and has gotten nowhere near the level he was at pre-injury. Any one out of those three may play well, poorly or absolute shite so who gets the nod is almost irrelevant as far as I'm concerned as a better quality center back is needed at the club BADLY.

Similar situation in midfield with Torriera, coming back from a nasty enough injury and still looks well off the pace. I thought he'd turned a corner after the cameo at Wolves where he was excellent, turning up all over the pitch to get tackles in and closing down the space but he's been pretty much anonymous every other time I've seen him. Maybe he's not match fit or maybe, if reports are to be believed, he's pining for a return to Italy but he doesn't seem right to me at all. Could AMN play that role? Possibly, but again that's an area of the pitch that has to be strengthened this summer.

I'd be happy enough with 3 signings this summer, a center back (in addition to Saliba), a central midfielder to boss the show and a number 10 play-maker. Those are the stand out areas that need addressing and until they are who starts ahead of who basically doesn't really matter (to me anyway 8) )



I get that, but here is where we differ -

torreira and holding (and guendouzi and maitland-niles) are all young enough that they might still improve, whilst we already know that xhaka, mustafi, kolasniac and luiz are what they are now and will never improve (unless you feel that they have now turned the corner after saturday's game :roll: ). I also believe that torreira being unsettled might have a lot to do with his little or no game time - for the last few months we had frequently seen reports of ceballos being unsettled and wanting to leave, but now that he is first choice he is happy and is apparently going to make a personal appeal to madrid chairman to allow him stay another 12 months on loan :roll: Of course it is also very possible that torreira simply has not settled in england and that would be a tragedy for me cos I believe he could have been a key player for us in years to come :(

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the playing mantis
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by the playing mantis »

augie wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:06 pm



To answer your question my belief is no in the same way I believe that MOST of the signings under emery were actually mislintat signings - if you recall, when emery was appointed the club was at pains to say that emery was the "head coach" (as opposed to manager), so I am assuming that most contracts and signings are above the head of the manager
but then getting rid of players isnt the coachs doing either then surely?

ultimately we all just guessing, likewise guessing which, if any players, revolted against emery. pure speculation. i never wanted arteta, but he's here. i will reserve full judgemtn on his squad management come the summer window. if those prick still playing next season then yes we can moan, if not then we have an issue.

what we are facing now is pretty unique, i think the need to rotate the squad and use every player you can is there given the long lay off and lack of real pre/mid season training. those beyond redemption ozil and seemingly douzi (right or wrongly) are only those not playing at all.

likewise can we really judge any coach/manager till the stinky turd that wont flush, malingering presnce that is ozil fucks off and a breath of fresh air is released. his presence at the club (even if banned from training or not at games)must be impacting everything, consciously or not.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by Retro Gunner »

rodders999 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:22 pm
I suppose the biggest difference between myself and Augie (besides my devilish good looks and massive penis) is that I'm not majorly arsed about the current starting lineup bar 3 players - Martinez, Tierney and Auba.

They're the first three names on any team-sheet for me (maybe I'd throw in Saka and Lacazette) but after that it's much of a muchness.

Should Holding start ahead of Side Show or Musatfi? Meh, Holding's played well in parts since coming back but he's also been horrendous in games, especially his passing and has gotten nowhere near the level he was at pre-injury. Any one out of those three may play well, poorly or absolute shite so who gets the nod is almost irrelevant as far as I'm concerned as a better quality center back is needed at the club BADLY.

Similar situation in midfield with Torriera, coming back from a nasty enough injury and still looks well off the pace. I thought he'd turned a corner after the cameo at Wolves where he was excellent, turning up all over the pitch to get tackles in and closing down the space but he's been pretty much anonymous every other time I've seen him. Maybe he's not match fit or maybe, if reports are to be believed, he's pining for a return to Italy but he doesn't seem right to me at all. Could AMN play that role? Possibly, but again that's an area of the pitch that has to be strengthened this summer.

I'd be happy enough with 3 signings this summer, a center back (in addition to Saliba), a central midfielder to boss the show and a number 10 play-maker. Those are the stand out areas that need addressing and until they are who starts ahead of who basically doesn't really matter (to me anyway 8) )

I think there's a lot of truth in this. To the three you name as starters Rodders, I'd add Martinelli, once he's fit and I'd play both Lacazette and Auba up front, so that gets Laca in. For the rest, it really is a case of not making much odds.

One additional point (and this will come as no surprise), but no way should Xhaka start.....ever. A total liability. In fairness to Augie, that's his point.....that we may have an overall nothingness in terms of quality (bar a handful as mentioned), but we also have a handful that are way beyond "meh" and should have been out of the club as soon as Wenger was gone. The prime examples are Xhaka and Mustafi.

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augie
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by augie »

the playing mantis wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:46 pm
augie wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:06 pm



To answer your question my belief is no in the same way I believe that MOST of the signings under emery were actually mislintat signings - if you recall, when emery was appointed the club was at pains to say that emery was the "head coach" (as opposed to manager), so I am assuming that most contracts and signings are above the head of the manager
but then getting rid of players isnt the coachs doing either then surely?

ultimately we all just guessing, likewise guessing which, if any players, revolted against emery. pure speculation. i never wanted arteta, but he's here. i will reserve full judgemtn on his squad management come the summer window. if those prick still playing next season then yes we can moan, if not then we have an issue.

what we are facing now is pretty unique, i think the need to rotate the squad and use every player you can is there given the long lay off and lack of real pre/mid season training. those beyond redemption ozil and seemingly douzi (right or wrongly) are only those not playing at all.

likewise can we really judge any coach/manager till the stinky turd that wont flush, malingering presnce that is ozil fucks off and a breath of fresh air is released. his presence at the club (even if banned from training or not at games)must be impacting everything, consciously or not.



No - absolutely no way. Any manager, regardless of who they are or how experienced they are, will tell the people who are running the club which players they want to keep and which he would be ok with their departures. The only caveat to that is in a situation like we have with auba where the club might over-rule the manager and sell a player rather than let him walk on a free the following year. This brings me back to my earlier point where I believe that arteta will told that if he wants another centre back signing then he will have to offload 1 or 2 first - my belief is that sokratis and holding will be the first names on arteta's sell list, and he will want to keep mustafi who he clearly (bizzarely) thinks is better than them

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IW8Goalmachine
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by IW8Goalmachine »

I'm no fan of Arteta but he has got us to a final. Yes his team selections are suspect but if we see more performances like Saturday then surely he deserves a little time.

Anyway were stuck with him until next season no matter what.

arrgee
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by arrgee »

IW8Goalmachine wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:10 am
I'm no fan of Arteta but he has got us to a final. Yes his team selections are suspect but if we see more performances like Saturday then surely he deserves a little time.

Anyway were stuck with him until next season no matter what.
I am fickle. After the defeat against the scum I had him down as Pep lite, yet with the last two wins, he is the true heir to George Graham.

He deserves next season regardless of what happens at Wembley. But then I thought Dick deserved the whole of this one as well. Hopefully Arsenal get back to at least challenging for the top four trophy.

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StuartL
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or fail

Post by StuartL »

arrgee wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:27 pm
IW8Goalmachine wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:10 am
I'm no fan of Arteta but he has got us to a final. Yes his team selections are suspect but if we see more performances like Saturday then surely he deserves a little time.

Anyway were stuck with him until next season no matter what.
I am fickle. After the defeat against the scum I had him down as Pep lite, yet with the last two wins, he is the true heir to George Graham.

He deserves next season regardless of what happens at Wembley. But then I thought Dick deserved the whole of this one as well. Hopefully Arsenal get back to at least challenging for the top four trophy.
I still can’t really see our “identity” we all too often still play out from the back, play lots of sideways and backwards passes, which bores me shitless.

We have a pretty quick front line in Saka, Auba and Pepe (Martinelli too when available) but rarely use a quick through ball to utilise their strength, all too often we play ponderous, turgid, pointless passes, which lets our opponents get back in numbers making it harder for us to break down.

He is slowly reshaping the team and yes deserves at least a full season to see how the can achieve.

Reaching th cup final in his first (half) season is good - dick managed the Europa final in his, which is arguably the better achievement - M.Arteta needs to go on and win it :barscarf:

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Herd
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by Herd »

He is trying to get a lazy up their own arses squad to perform which is tough ,the players fucked Emry off ,I'm sure they have tried to fuck Arteta around too but he seems to have control at present .
In order to do it he has taken a stand against Ozil and put side show bob2 in his place too.
He is a better communicator than Dick and the players seem to be responding but there's a shit load of work to be done .
His selections and tactics have raised some eyebrows but there are signs of development .
Its difficult to assess if his ideas will work because he game is being played at such a slow pace it suits our slower witted players .
Its clear he has no idea what the budget is but then I don't think that the bean counter and the apparatchik know either !
I firmly believe that if he wins the Cup he will get some dosh if not then he wont and there will be lots of horse trading done to raise funds !

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by GoonerMuzz »

In fairness to him though and although I completely understand the lack of identity comment Stuart it's been a bit stop start to his tenure, I wonder if without lockdown whether we'd be better or worse off :rubchin:

I get peoples reluctance with Arteta he was no-ones first choice but for good or ill he's our Coach currently and needs our forbearance if not support.

Do some of his selection choices baffle me, yes but then I'm not seeing what's happening behind the scenes, nor do I have any idea of what his overall direction is i just hope he does :rubchin:


Hopefully we can win the Cup and head into next season with a bit of confidence, hopefully the board will back him in the transfer market and hopefully we'll finally get rid of Ozil and maybe just maybe he'll surprise us...... am I confident in any of that not really, I reckon Rodders has more chance of slipping Natalie a quick one than Ozil disappearing over the horizon but you never know :shock:

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by OneBardGooner »

GoonerMuzz wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:36 pm
In fairness to him though and although I completely understand the lack of identity comment Stuart it's been a bit stop start to his tenure, I wonder if without lockdown whether we'd be better or worse off :rubchin:

I get peoples reluctance with Arteta he was no-ones first choice but for good or ill he's our Coach currently and needs our forbearance if not support.

Do some of his selection choices baffle me, yes but then I'm not seeing what's happening behind the scenes, nor do I have any idea of what his overall direction is i just hope he does :rubchin:


Hopefully we can win the Cup and head into next season with a bit of confidence, hopefully the board will back him in the transfer market and hopefully we'll finally get rid of Ozil and maybe just maybe he'll surprise us...... am I confident in any of that not really, I reckon Rodders has more chance of slipping Natalie a quick one than Ozil disappearing over the horizon but you never know :shock:

Aaah! Yes, you say that but did you know that Rodders has got that restraining order on him by Nats. :D


Mind you I did hear that the Emirates has a restraining order on Ozil from coming within 100 metres of the 1st sqaud. :wink:

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SteveO 35
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by SteveO 35 »

Arsenal 10th with a modern tactical genius at the helm

Burnley 9th with a Luddite who isnt fit to lick his boots

Still its early d......

Oh shit, there's one game left lol

Massive improvement!

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SteveO 35
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by SteveO 35 »

Lose to Chelsea and just sling yer fucking hook

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by DB10GOONER »

augie wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:06 pm
the playing mantis wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:01 pm
augie wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:34 am


I was one of those that liked him as a player too, but I believe that he isnt up to this job, and I absolutely hate the way he is going about it

Here is the thing for me - to do a proper rebuild of this size requires more of a long term view than a short sighted one. It requires getting shot of those who have continually showed themselves to be not up to the job, and then building around a nucleus of younger players who will be coming into their prime in 2 or 3 seasons time. My views on this have been consistent on this long before emery or arteta was appointed - I continually said that the next manager after wenger didnt need to be THE guy for us, and indeed the manager after that didnt need to be either, as long as the club had a proper plan to flush out the shit and rebuild from an almost blank canvas. The one thing I continually give emery credit for is that he was committed to that plan and then arteta came in and reinstated the shit that was almost out the door. I honestly dont care if guendouzi is the answer or not, but I will bet my bollox that xhaka aint, and I would rather fail with young lads who MIGHT turn out to be good enough, than fail with players that we know are not good enough. For me, arteta straight away starting appeasing these older players to (a) make sure that they didnt undermine him (b) try and win in the short-term - neither reason works for me
But wasnt Unai the one who gace Xhaka a new contract?

also dont want to pile on with OBG and G88ner but any chance of a bit more spacing/line breaks...just makes it easier to read!



To answer your question my belief is no in the same way I believe that MOST of the signings under emery were actually mislintat signings - if you recall, when emery was appointed the club was at pains to say that emery was the "head coach" (as opposed to manager), so I am assuming that most contracts and signings are above the head of the manager
I do not buy that at all. The manager / head coach / whatever might not be involved in the actual negotiations but they are certainly involved in the decisions of who signs who stays and who goes.

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SteveO 35
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by SteveO 35 »

IW8Goalmachine wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:10 am
I'm no fan of Arteta but he has got us to a final. Yes his team selections are suspect but if we see more performances like Saturday then surely he deserves a little time.

Anyway were stuck with him until next season no matter what.
And if he loses that final in the way Emery lost his in his first season where do you stand then? A 10th place finish and no European football of any kind...

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