Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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Will he ?

Have a statue erected after 30 glorious years service?
4
7%
Be a success, pick up a few trophies and put the club back on an even keel?
19
32%
Be a moderate success, before handing over to a more high profile successor?
15
25%
Be an utter fucking disaster?
22
37%
 
Total votes: 60

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IW8Goalmachine
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by IW8Goalmachine »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:46 am
IW8Goalmachine wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:10 am
I'm no fan of Arteta but he has got us to a final. Yes his team selections are suspect but if we see more performances like Saturday then surely he deserves a little time.

Anyway were stuck with him until next season no matter what.
And if he loses that final in the way Emery lost his in his first season where do you stand then? A 10th place finish and no European football of any kind...
If he loses the final then he needs a to go but as I said earlier that won't happen. We are stuck with him until next season at least

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by SteveO 35 »

IW8Goalmachine wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:02 am
SteveO 35 wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:46 am
IW8Goalmachine wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:10 am
I'm no fan of Arteta but he has got us to a final. Yes his team selections are suspect but if we see more performances like Saturday then surely he deserves a little time.

Anyway were stuck with him until next season no matter what.
And if he loses that final in the way Emery lost his in his first season where do you stand then? A 10th place finish and no European football of any kind...
If he loses the final then he needs a to go but as I said earlier that won't happen. We are stuck with him until next season at least
Yep it seems like it. Well one and a third seasons is the new judgement period for Arsenal managers and he has had half a season already.....so if we haven't improved by early 2021 he should be out.

Personally I don't think it will last that long because we will spend all of next season between 9th and 14th and hopefully then even the board will see the light and abandon this ridiculous idea of appointing a novice into one of the toughest jobs in football

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SydneyGooner
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by SydneyGooner »

For me he gets the entirety of next season regardless of what happens in the cup final. This season was nothing more than a glorified pre season for Arteta even more so with the Covid break.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by SydneyGooner »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:08 am
IW8Goalmachine wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:02 am
SteveO 35 wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:46 am
IW8Goalmachine wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:10 am
I'm no fan of Arteta but he has got us to a final. Yes his team selections are suspect but if we see more performances like Saturday then surely he deserves a little time.

Anyway were stuck with him until next season no matter what.
And if he loses that final in the way Emery lost his in his first season where do you stand then? A 10th place finish and no European football of any kind...
If he loses the final then he needs a to go but as I said earlier that won't happen. We are stuck with him until next season at least
Yep it seems like it. Well one and a third seasons is the new judgement period for Arsenal managers and he has had half a season already.....so if we haven't improved by early 2021 he should be out.

Personally I don't think it will last that long because we will spend all of next season between 9th and 14th and hopefully then even the board will see the light and abandon this ridiculous idea of appointing a novice into one of the toughest jobs in football
How much of Emery's sacking was due to the players downing tools in your opinion?

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augie
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by augie »

SydneyGooner wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:09 pm
For me he gets the entirety of next season regardless of what happens in the cup final. This season was nothing more than a glorified pre season for Arteta even more so with the Covid break.



See that's the type of thinking that riles up the likes of me and Steve O - if you were one of the people that wanted emery out after 18 months, then surely you would concede that arteta should be held to the same standards and not get as much as 1 day longer than emery got ?

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by augie »

Hmmm - interesting :rubchin:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football ... ry-wenger/

Dont go having a mickey fit cos it is the sun DB10, stats dont lie and that are what they are regardless of who publishes them 8)

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SteveO 35
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by SteveO 35 »

SydneyGooner wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:18 pm
SteveO 35 wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:08 am
IW8Goalmachine wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:02 am
SteveO 35 wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:46 am
IW8Goalmachine wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:10 am
I'm no fan of Arteta but he has got us to a final. Yes his team selections are suspect but if we see more performances like Saturday then surely he deserves a little time.

Anyway were stuck with him until next season no matter what.
And if he loses that final in the way Emery lost his in his first season where do you stand then? A 10th place finish and no European football of any kind...
If he loses the final then he needs a to go but as I said earlier that won't happen. We are stuck with him until next season at least
Yep it seems like it. Well one and a third seasons is the new judgement period for Arsenal managers and he has had half a season already.....so if we haven't improved by early 2021 he should be out.

Personally I don't think it will last that long because we will spend all of next season between 9th and 14th and hopefully then even the board will see the light and abandon this ridiculous idea of appointing a novice into one of the toughest jobs in football
How much of Emery's sacking was due to the players downing tools in your opinion?
There is no doubt in my mind that the players who had a comfy existence under Wenger and were being found out and sidelined were the same ones who kicked off and made the atmosphere a toxic one

When you look at the players who would have been Emery's first choices - Leno, Bellerin (if fit), Holding, Sokratis, Tierney (if fit), Torreira, Gunedouzi, Saka, Martinelli, Aubameyang etc - would any of them had downed tools or were kicking off?

All the murmurings of discontent were coming from so called senior players like Xhaka, Ozil and Mustafi and that sad c.unt Mkhitaryan had made some snidey comments pissing into the tent from the outside too.

That undoubtedly had a negative influence on the dressing room. For some bizarre reason Xhaka carries influence - the players wouldnt have chosen him as captain otherwise...and it was after he flicked the V and got sidelined that things started to go tits up. Emery chose to live with that and was lining up a loan move in January and was clearly trying to do similar with Ozil and Mustafi. Would there have been a different reaction without these poisonous fuckers there?

I guess we will never know but for the sake of a couple of months (if that), I would have lived with the short term shit for the sake of the bigger picture. The one thing we are seeing is whether the super coach's approach of pandering to those two losers and picking them week in, week out is not exactly having a great effect

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DB10GOONER
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by DB10GOONER »

augie wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:32 pm
Hmmm - interesting :rubchin:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football ... ry-wenger/

Dont go having a mickey fit cos it is the sun DB10, stats dont lie and that are what they are regardless of who publishes them 8)
I'm sorry augie but if you cannot see how puerile and idiotic that article is then I cannot help you old buddy. :wink: Judging a manager after his first 19 games? Really? Jesus buddy come on. :|

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by DB10GOONER »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:33 pm
SydneyGooner wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:18 pm
SteveO 35 wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:08 am
IW8Goalmachine wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:02 am
SteveO 35 wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:46 am


And if he loses that final in the way Emery lost his in his first season where do you stand then? A 10th place finish and no European football of any kind...
If he loses the final then he needs a to go but as I said earlier that won't happen. We are stuck with him until next season at least
Yep it seems like it. Well one and a third seasons is the new judgement period for Arsenal managers and he has had half a season already.....so if we haven't improved by early 2021 he should be out.

Personally I don't think it will last that long because we will spend all of next season between 9th and 14th and hopefully then even the board will see the light and abandon this ridiculous idea of appointing a novice into one of the toughest jobs in football
How much of Emery's sacking was due to the players downing tools in your opinion?
There is no doubt in my mind that the players who had a comfy existence under Wenger and were being found out and sidelined were the same ones who kicked off and made the atmosphere a toxic one

When you look at the players who would have been Emery's first choices - Leno, Bellerin (if fit), Holding, Sokratis, Tierney (if fit), Torreira, Gunedouzi, Saka, Martinelli, Aubameyang etc - would any of them had downed tools or were kicking off?

All the murmurings of discontent were coming from so called senior players like Xhaka, Ozil and Mustafi and that sad c.unt Mkhitaryan had made some snidey comments pissing into the tent from the outside too.

That undoubtedly had a negative influence on the dressing room. For some bizarre reason Xhaka carries influence - the players wouldnt have chosen him as captain otherwise...and it was after he flicked the V and got sidelined that things started to go tits up. Emery chose to live with that and was lining up a loan move in January and was clearly trying to do similar with Ozil and Mustafi. Would there have been a different reaction without these poisonous fuckers there?

I guess we will never know but for the sake of a couple of months (if that), I would have lived with the short term shit for the sake of the bigger picture. The one thing we are seeing is whether the super coach's approach of pandering to those two losers and picking them week in, week out is not exactly having a great effect
The bits in red are what I'm still awaiting proof of mate. You and augie go on endlessly about this huge conspiracy to get rid of Dick and the senior players downing tools and every time I ask one of you to provide evidence - even a single piece of evidence - you guys both sidetrack the discussion or ignore the question entirely!! :lol:

There is zero evidence if you exclude made up click bait cobblers on the Sun website. :lol:

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SteveO 35
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by SteveO 35 »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:47 pm
SteveO 35 wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:33 pm
SydneyGooner wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:18 pm
SteveO 35 wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:08 am
IW8Goalmachine wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:02 am


If he loses the final then he needs a to go but as I said earlier that won't happen. We are stuck with him until next season at least
Yep it seems like it. Well one and a third seasons is the new judgement period for Arsenal managers and he has had half a season already.....so if we haven't improved by early 2021 he should be out.

Personally I don't think it will last that long because we will spend all of next season between 9th and 14th and hopefully then even the board will see the light and abandon this ridiculous idea of appointing a novice into one of the toughest jobs in football
How much of Emery's sacking was due to the players downing tools in your opinion?
There is no doubt in my mind that the players who had a comfy existence under Wenger and were being found out and sidelined were the same ones who kicked off and made the atmosphere a toxic one

When you look at the players who would have been Emery's first choices - Leno, Bellerin (if fit), Holding, Sokratis, Tierney (if fit), Torreira, Gunedouzi, Saka, Martinelli, Aubameyang etc - would any of them had downed tools or were kicking off?

All the murmurings of discontent were coming from so called senior players like Xhaka, Ozil and Mustafi and that sad c.unt Mkhitaryan had made some snidey comments pissing into the tent from the outside too.

That undoubtedly had a negative influence on the dressing room. For some bizarre reason Xhaka carries influence - the players wouldnt have chosen him as captain otherwise...and it was after he flicked the V and got sidelined that things started to go tits up. Emery chose to live with that and was lining up a loan move in January and was clearly trying to do similar with Ozil and Mustafi. Would there have been a different reaction without these poisonous fuckers there?

I guess we will never know but for the sake of a couple of months (if that), I would have lived with the short term shit for the sake of the bigger picture. The one thing we are seeing is whether the super coach's approach of pandering to those two losers and picking them week in, week out is not exactly having a great effect
The bits in red are what I'm still awaiting proof of mate. You and augie go on endlessly about this huge conspiracy to get rid of Dick and the senior players downing tools and every time I ask one of you to provide evidence - even a single piece of evidence - you guys both sidetrack the discussion or ignore the question entirely!! :lol:

There is zero evidence if you exclude made up click bait cobblers on the Sun website. :lol:
Mate, honestly have a word with yourself. How many articles do you really need me to dig up to talk about Xhaka never wanting to play again for us....even g88ner who is by no means an Emery fan was saying the same earlier. The turdbag couldn't have made it clearer how victimised he felt, even bringing his own family into it

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by DB10GOONER »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:03 pm
DB10GOONER wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:47 pm
SteveO 35 wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:33 pm
SydneyGooner wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:18 pm
SteveO 35 wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:08 am


Yep it seems like it. Well one and a third seasons is the new judgement period for Arsenal managers and he has had half a season already.....so if we haven't improved by early 2021 he should be out.

Personally I don't think it will last that long because we will spend all of next season between 9th and 14th and hopefully then even the board will see the light and abandon this ridiculous idea of appointing a novice into one of the toughest jobs in football
How much of Emery's sacking was due to the players downing tools in your opinion?
There is no doubt in my mind that the players who had a comfy existence under Wenger and were being found out and sidelined were the same ones who kicked off and made the atmosphere a toxic one

When you look at the players who would have been Emery's first choices - Leno, Bellerin (if fit), Holding, Sokratis, Tierney (if fit), Torreira, Gunedouzi, Saka, Martinelli, Aubameyang etc - would any of them had downed tools or were kicking off?

All the murmurings of discontent were coming from so called senior players like Xhaka, Ozil and Mustafi and that sad c.unt Mkhitaryan had made some snidey comments pissing into the tent from the outside too.

That undoubtedly had a negative influence on the dressing room. For some bizarre reason Xhaka carries influence - the players wouldnt have chosen him as captain otherwise...and it was after he flicked the V and got sidelined that things started to go tits up. Emery chose to live with that and was lining up a loan move in January and was clearly trying to do similar with Ozil and Mustafi. Would there have been a different reaction without these poisonous fuckers there?

I guess we will never know but for the sake of a couple of months (if that), I would have lived with the short term shit for the sake of the bigger picture. The one thing we are seeing is whether the super coach's approach of pandering to those two losers and picking them week in, week out is not exactly having a great effect
The bits in red are what I'm still awaiting proof of mate. You and augie go on endlessly about this huge conspiracy to get rid of Dick and the senior players downing tools and every time I ask one of you to provide evidence - even a single piece of evidence - you guys both sidetrack the discussion or ignore the question entirely!! :lol:

There is zero evidence if you exclude made up click bait cobblers on the Sun website. :lol:
Mate, honestly have a word with yourself. How many articles do you really need me to dig up to talk about Xhaka never wanting to play again for us....even g88ner who is by no means an Emery fan was saying the same earlier. The turdbag couldn't have made it clearer how victimised he felt, even bringing his own family into it
Not sure why i need to have a word with myself but whatevs. :lol:

How is Xhakatard publicly feeling sorry for himself proof that all these senior players downed tools? It's a fair question. You and augie both keep saying those players conspired to get Dick sacked.

The plain sad truth is Dick got himself sacked because he was doing such a poor job in his last months in charge.

Indeed the whole theory of those players having downed tools just isn't based in fact. They were just mostly shit players. Have any of those players suddenly picked up tools and started playing better under Arteta? Nope. They are still shit. Hell some of them are even shitter now! :lol:

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by SteveO 35 »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:44 pm
SteveO 35 wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:03 pm
DB10GOONER wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:47 pm
SteveO 35 wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:33 pm
SydneyGooner wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:18 pm


How much of Emery's sacking was due to the players downing tools in your opinion?
There is no doubt in my mind that the players who had a comfy existence under Wenger and were being found out and sidelined were the same ones who kicked off and made the atmosphere a toxic one

When you look at the players who would have been Emery's first choices - Leno, Bellerin (if fit), Holding, Sokratis, Tierney (if fit), Torreira, Gunedouzi, Saka, Martinelli, Aubameyang etc - would any of them had downed tools or were kicking off?

All the murmurings of discontent were coming from so called senior players like Xhaka, Ozil and Mustafi and that sad c.unt Mkhitaryan had made some snidey comments pissing into the tent from the outside too.

That undoubtedly had a negative influence on the dressing room. For some bizarre reason Xhaka carries influence - the players wouldnt have chosen him as captain otherwise...and it was after he flicked the V and got sidelined that things started to go tits up. Emery chose to live with that and was lining up a loan move in January and was clearly trying to do similar with Ozil and Mustafi. Would there have been a different reaction without these poisonous fuckers there?

I guess we will never know but for the sake of a couple of months (if that), I would have lived with the short term shit for the sake of the bigger picture. The one thing we are seeing is whether the super coach's approach of pandering to those two losers and picking them week in, week out is not exactly having a great effect
The bits in red are what I'm still awaiting proof of mate. You and augie go on endlessly about this huge conspiracy to get rid of Dick and the senior players downing tools and every time I ask one of you to provide evidence - even a single piece of evidence - you guys both sidetrack the discussion or ignore the question entirely!! :lol:

There is zero evidence if you exclude made up click bait cobblers on the Sun website. :lol:
Mate, honestly have a word with yourself. How many articles do you really need me to dig up to talk about Xhaka never wanting to play again for us....even g88ner who is by no means an Emery fan was saying the same earlier. The turdbag couldn't have made it clearer how victimised he felt, even bringing his own family into it
Not sure why i need to have a word with myself but whatevs. :lol:

How is Xhakatard publicly feeling sorry for himself proof that all these senior players downed tools? It's a fair question. You and augie both keep saying those players conspired to get Dick sacked.

The plain sad truth is Dick got himself sacked because he was doing such a poor job in his last months in charge.

Indeed the whole theory of those players having downed tools just isn't based in fact. They were just mostly shit players. Have any of those players suddenly picked up tools and started playing better under Arteta? Nope. They are still shit. Hell some of them are even shitter now! :lol:
None of us know the truth about what goes on at the club (apart from Baba who of course knew everything lol) because we don't work there or know the people involved personally....so you could use that line for every single "story" that emerges in the press whether it's about transfers, player discontent etc. If we needed hard evidence for every story we probably wouldn't have a forum, so we need to go on the weight of probability as we see it

Here's how I see it. Xhaka was voted in as the captain - I wasnt there when the vote happened but its widely reported that the players saw him as the natural choice. What we do know is the fans made it clear what they thought of him and for the first time in over 100 moronic performances he got the bird. He flicked the V and told us all where to go. He was then removed from the team and captaincy - whether voluntarily or of Emery's doing, again we dont know for certain.

What we do know is that pretty much after that incident is when the stories started coming out of players mocking Emery, complaining about his training methods and treatment of certain players. If I could be arsed I'd dig up that fairy Mkhitaryan's little dig about his management from about the same time. I dont recall any of the jibes being from the younger or more newly recruited players.

I dont have hard evidence in the same way nobody posting on the transfer rumour thread does. What I do know is that there was precious little chat about "losing the dressing room" or any other digs at Emery prior to the Xhaka incident

If the senior players voted him in as captain doesn't it stand to reason that they may have had a little strop when he was ousted and being lined up for a loan move?

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by g88ner »

augie wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:23 pm
SydneyGooner wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:09 pm
For me he gets the entirety of next season regardless of what happens in the cup final. This season was nothing more than a glorified pre season for Arteta even more so with the Covid break.

See that's the type of thinking that riles up the likes of me and Steve O - if you were one of the people that wanted emery out after 18 months, then surely you would concede that arteta should be held to the same standards and not get as much as 1 day longer than emery got ?

Hang on, aren’t you both agreeing with each other? :lol:

Giving Arteta all of next season (May/June 2021) must surely be around 18months since he arrived on 26th December 2019???

I guess next season will end later than that but there’s been a 2-3 month COVID-19 break so 18 months might become 20 but it’s basically the same logic, surely? :lol:

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by SteveO 35 »

g88ner wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:05 pm
augie wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:23 pm
SydneyGooner wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:09 pm
For me he gets the entirety of next season regardless of what happens in the cup final. This season was nothing more than a glorified pre season for Arteta even more so with the Covid break.

See that's the type of thinking that riles up the likes of me and Steve O - if you were one of the people that wanted emery out after 18 months, then surely you would concede that arteta should be held to the same standards and not get as much as 1 day longer than emery got ?

Hang on, aren’t you both agreeing with each other? :lol:

Giving Arteta all of next season (May/June 2021) must surely be around 18months since he arrived on 26th December 2019???

I guess next season will end later than that but there’s been a 2-3 month COVID-19 break so 18 months might become 20 but it’s basically the same logic, surely? :lol:
I think the "regardless of what happens in the cup final" bit is what seems inconsistent. I think a few people on here may have mentioned the 4-1 loss to the Chavs as a turning point with Emery, so if the same opponents minus Hazard tore us a new one in the FA Cup Final, I fail to see why that would be viewed differently

My own view was that whoever was appointed after Wenger deserved 2 years and 4 full transfer windows to try and complete the mother of all rebuilds. After year 1 I expected us to be mid table, perhaps even lower so in that case finishing 5th with most of Wenger's limpdicks was way ahead of expectations. Second season I'd have settled for moving up to the fringes of the Europa places and by the end of that season having got rid of as many of Wenger's wankers as possible- accepting the point that some of those players were/are on ridiculous contracts that almost make them unsellable.

I didn't think that was unreasonable. I certainly wasnt hoping to get anywhere near a cup final or the CL places

However, the club's view is different. One and a third seasons is deemed to be an acceptable judgement period and runners up in a major cup final, finishing 5th and being 7th the following year are judged as being sackable. So, that's what he needs to do better than. Higher than 5th in a full season and winning a cup by definition must be what the club seems acceptable

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by g88ner »

Steveo, my view is that you can’t set a time period before making a decision because sometimes overwhelming evidence may present itself earlier or later than you’d planned for.

I thought emery needed a couple of years in fairness, but I was so dismayed by the form throughout 2019 that I understood why he was sacked. It might have been the wrong decision of course but I understood why they pulled the trigger.

Arteta needs a couple of years too but if it’s clear he’s not going to be up to it, why wait until 2022??

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