Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
Post Reply

Will he ?

Have a statue erected after 30 glorious years service?
4
7%
Be a success, pick up a few trophies and put the club back on an even keel?
19
32%
Be a moderate success, before handing over to a more high profile successor?
15
25%
Be an utter fucking disaster?
22
37%
 
Total votes: 60

User avatar
SteveO 35
Posts: 16976
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 7:01 pm
Location: Abou's fan club

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by SteveO 35 »

g88ner wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:35 pm
Steveo, my view is that you can’t set a time period before making a decision because sometimes overwhelming evidence may present itself earlier or later than you’d planned for.

I thought emery needed a couple of years in fairness, but I was so dismayed by the form throughout 2019 that I understood why he was sacked. It might have been the wrong decision of course but I understood why they pulled the trigger.

Arteta needs a couple of years too but if it’s clear he’s not going to be up to it, why wait until 2022??
I hear you mate and of course if someone turns out to be a total disaster you don't wait 2 years. I'm sure when Palace appointed De Boer for example they didn't expect him to lose every match, and if they'd waited 2 years that clearly would be madness

Think it comes back to what the expectations are in that 2 year period and whether you're ahead of them or behind. Wenger left us in a mess - unsellable players, a decade plus of not really competing for the title, a Europa League team in every sense. We also have an owner not prepared to try and invest out of it whilst the likes of Everton and Wolves (who are more our rivals these days than Liverpool and City) are prepared to give it a go. Why anyone thought we'd be higher than 7th or 8th after 15 months of post Wenger football management is beyond me. The only explanation is that we came closer to achieving the nigh on impossible in Emery's first season, and that set a new bar.

I'll take a bet now that we won't be higher than 8th next season either if Arteta and Kroenke remain manager and owner

User avatar
SydneyGooner
Posts: 872
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:10 am

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by SydneyGooner »

augie wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:23 pm
SydneyGooner wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:09 pm
For me he gets the entirety of next season regardless of what happens in the cup final. This season was nothing more than a glorified pre season for Arteta even more so with the Covid break.



See that's the type of thinking that riles up the likes of me and Steve O - if you were one of the people that wanted emery out after 18 months, then surely you would concede that arteta should be held to the same standards and not get as much as 1 day longer than emery got ?
Can't lie, like the majority of the fan base, I was definitely starting to have serious doubts about Emery prior to his sacking but I liked the guy and wasn't averse to the idea of sticking with him till the end of the season.

User avatar
mcdowell42
Posts: 13164
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:19 pm
Location: ireland

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by mcdowell42 »

Sokratis profiles as one of the better defenders for Arsenal this season in terms of statistics and was a valued contributor pre-lockdown. Is there more to his absence than a perceived inability to play out from the back? https://t.co/Ybbru6sMDo

User avatar
SteveO 35
Posts: 16976
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 7:01 pm
Location: Abou's fan club

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by SteveO 35 »

mcdowell42 wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:45 am
Sokratis profiles as one of the better defenders for Arsenal this season in terms of statistics and was a valued contributor pre-lockdown. Is there more to his absence than a perceived inability to play out from the back? https://t.co/Ybbru6sMDo
Copy cat Pep wants to make his point about only having ball players in the side - heaven forbid picking someone in the backline who can actually defend first and foremost. Look at his 3 main picks - Luiz, Mustafi and Kolasinac. When it comes to the art of defending they're like what I am to the art of ballet dancing

User avatar
wibble
Posts: 886
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:04 pm

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by wibble »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:24 pm
mcdowell42 wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:45 am
Sokratis profiles as one of the better defenders for Arsenal this season in terms of statistics and was a valued contributor pre-lockdown. Is there more to his absence than a perceived inability to play out from the back? https://t.co/Ybbru6sMDo
Copy cat Pep wants to make his point about only having ball players in the side - heaven forbid picking someone in the backline who can actually defend first and foremost. Look at his 3 main picks - Luiz, Mustafi and Kolasinac. When it comes to the art of defending they're like what I am to the art of ballet dancing
And to make matters worse, only one of those 3 (Luiz) could reasonably be conceived as a ball player

User avatar
Wengerballs
Posts: 122
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:37 am

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by Wengerballs »

Fookin get rid of Peps cone man Thunderbirds head and sign genuis MARCELO BIELSA who would sack all the old, slow, overpaid has-beens and guaranteed systematically get us back into the top 4 within a season with practically our young reserves side.

User avatar
g88ner
Posts: 13943
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:17 pm

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by g88ner »

Wengerballs wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:11 am
Fookin get rid of Peps cone man Thunderbirds head and sign genuis MARCELO BIELSA who would sack all the old, slow, overpaid has-beens and guaranteed systematically get us back into the top 4 within a season with practically our young reserves side.
But would he be willing to take a step down and join Arsenal?

User avatar
IW8Goalmachine
Posts: 2680
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:15 am
Location: Galway

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by IW8Goalmachine »

g88ner wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:13 am
Wengerballs wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:11 am
Fookin get rid of Peps cone man Thunderbirds head and sign genuis MARCELO BIELSA who would sack all the old, slow, overpaid has-beens and guaranteed systematically get us back into the top 4 within a season with practically our young reserves side.
But would he be willing to take a step down and join Arsenal?
Messi is on a mission to get him to Barcelona

Clash
Posts: 2673
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:46 pm

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by Clash »

IW8Goalmachine wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:48 am
g88ner wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:13 am
Wengerballs wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:11 am
Fookin get rid of Peps cone man Thunderbirds head and sign genuis MARCELO BIELSA who would sack all the old, slow, overpaid has-beens and guaranteed systematically get us back into the top 4 within a season with practically our young reserves side.
But would he be willing to take a step down and join Arsenal?
Messi is on a mission to get him to Barcelona
:D

Until we played Leeds in the cup I had barely heard of this Bielsa. But I remember in the build up to kick off seeing some long-winded piece about him and how he had heavily influenced and shaped almost everyone working in the modern game. I soon realised he is the best manager in history.
And now Sky are doing a documentary about him. He really must be a genius if they can fit this in among the dozens of Liverpool* documentaries they're no doubt working on :roll:

User avatar
goonersid
Posts: 7787
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:40 am
Location: DERRY CITY

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by goonersid »

So if we win the cup on Saturday, with a squad littered with shite, not of his own making, would that not earn him until at least next Christmas, to see how he can shape a team with hopefully some of his own input?
After all, according to Steveo, Dick getting us to the europa lge final and only losing 4-1 was an achievement :rubchin:

User avatar
GoonerMuzz
Posts: 4213
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:53 pm
Location: Defending is optional

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by GoonerMuzz »

Lets be honest Sid, we could go out and smash Chavski 4-0 and some on here would still complain, wrong team selection, wrong tactics, wrong formation, wrong substitutions whatever or even simply Xhaka on the pitch (even if he put in the performance of a lifetime), it seems some are more interested in writing the Coach down than giving him a chance, at least Emery got 12 months before people really started to call him into question.

I remember the days when you'd back your new Manager until he really fucked up, of course then the gloves were off, now it seems you're getting it as soon as you are percieved to make a wrong substitution :roll:

User avatar
DB10GOONER
Posts: 48130
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:06 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland.
Contact:

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by DB10GOONER »

Well for me anyway I never wanted Arteta at this stage in his career because I felt (and still do feel) he is not experienced enough. But he's here now and I will support him until it is very obvious that he is not good enough.

That decision could only come after he's had a couple of transfer windows to try bring in his own players though.

Do I think he'll be a success? I'm doubtful tbh but I really hope he is.

But I do reserve the right to criticize any manager when they make a mistake - that's part of being a fan. And I absolutely reserve the right to lambast the Xhakatard gimp because he will never put in the performance of a lifetime. :roll: :wink:

User avatar
SteveO 35
Posts: 16976
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 7:01 pm
Location: Abou's fan club

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by SteveO 35 »

One more time for the pea brains

Losing a final 4-1 is never something to be proud of. Hazard ripped us to ribbons in 20 minutes flat in a game that was going nowhere. Dick failed to address the right back position and that of course was a failing of his. AMN is never a right back, Bellerin is an utter embarrassment of a 'defender' and Lichsteiner was a geriatric, cheap option for the board and an utter failure. We are still as weak at right back today and anyone with a decent left winger will expose it time and time again

However, I'd say that getting to within a point of CL qualification and reaching a European final largely with Wenger's wankers and a few cheap additions wasnt bad at all. Anyone think we will get within a point next season? Wenger reached 2 European finals in 22 years and lost both - no shame in the Barca final, but losing to fucking Galatasaray with the team we had then....unforgiveable

If Arteta wins the FA Cup I will give him the credit he deserves. The last 3 games of the run were all tough ones and he would rightly be praised for that. Next season is the real test for him as he will face what Dick did - players he doesn't want but who were left on outrageous contracts and can't be shifted. So I dont want to hear any excuses about Mustafi, Ozil and Xhaka not being his players because nor were they Emery's.

Sid - just about every game last season you slammed every substitution or tactical decision that Emery made and called him every name under the sun. I just find it odd that Arteta can make equally baffling choices (Kolasinac, Willock, Xhaka etc) but that's fine?

As for the argument about games being dead rubbers....well perhaps you should ask the question why there are so many dead rubbers to start with. The league season was dead two games after the league restart, with that shameful defeat at Brighton that was every bit as bad as anything either of the previous managers served up. A team that hadn't fucking won since Christmas and are absolutely shite. People slated Emery's last few games of last season (and I agree with some justification) but mostly because those games mattered as we were still chasing CL qualification until the penultimate game. Rather have that personally than the league season done and dusted weeks before the end

User avatar
augie
Posts: 25930
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:03 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by augie »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:57 am
One more time for the pea brains

Losing a final 4-1 is never something to be proud of. Hazard ripped us to ribbons in 20 minutes flat in a game that was going nowhere. Dick failed to address the right back position and that of course was a failing of his. AMN is never a right back, Bellerin is an utter embarrassment of a 'defender' and Lichsteiner was a geriatric, cheap option for the board and an utter failure. We are still as weak at right back today and anyone with a decent left winger will expose it time and time again

However, I'd say that getting to within a point of CL qualification and reaching a European final largely with Wenger's wankers and a few cheap additions wasnt bad at all. Anyone think we will get within a point next season? Wenger reached 2 European finals in 22 years and lost both - no shame in the Barca final, but losing to fucking Galatasaray with the team we had then....unforgiveable

If Arteta wins the FA Cup I will give him the credit he deserves. The last 3 games of the run were all tough ones and he would rightly be praised for that. Next season is the real test for him as he will face what Dick did - players he doesn't want but who were left on outrageous contracts and can't be shifted. So I dont want to hear any excuses about Mustafi, Ozil and Xhaka not being his players because nor were they Emery's.

Sid - just about every game last season you slammed every substitution or tactical decision that Emery made and called him every name under the sun. I just find it odd that Arteta can make equally baffling choices (Kolasinac, Willock, Xhaka etc) but that's fine?

As for the argument about games being dead rubbers....well perhaps you should ask the question why there are so many dead rubbers to start with. The league season was dead two games after the league restart, with that shameful defeat at Brighton that was every bit as bad as anything either of the previous managers served up. A team that hadn't fucking won since Christmas and are absolutely shite. People slated Emery's last few games of last season (and I agree with some justification) but mostly because those games mattered as we were still chasing CL qualification until the penultimate game. Rather have that personally than the league season done and dusted weeks before the end



This is the thing about sid that baffles me - he was all over every emery mistake and decided early doors that he was against emery's appointment, which was absolutely his right. Forward on 18 months and he is losing his shit with anyone that dares to take the same stance about arteta, and excuses that were not acceptable for emery are now being trotted out by many fans in defence of arteta and I find that hypocritical tbh. I sometimes get stuck in my views, but even though I was against arteta's appointment way back before emery was appointed, I would have got on board with him if I felt that he was strong enough and shrewd enough to get rid of the c.unts like xhaka, mustafi, ozil etc - that he has them installed as automatic starters (ozil was before lockdown), tells me that he either lacks the balls to take them on or (and this would be worse) he is too stupid to realise that they are not good enough, and are too disruptive to have in the club

User avatar
goonersid
Posts: 7787
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:40 am
Location: DERRY CITY

Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by goonersid »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:57 am
One more time for the pea brains

Losing a final 4-1 is never something to be proud of. Hazard ripped us to ribbons in 20 minutes flat in a game that was going nowhere. Dick failed to address the right back position and that of course was a failing of his. AMN is never a right back, Bellerin is an utter embarrassment of a 'defender' and Lichsteiner was a geriatric, cheap option for the board and an utter failure. We are still as weak at right back today and anyone with a decent left winger will expose it time and time again

However, I'd say that getting to within a point of CL qualification and reaching a European final largely with Wenger's wankers and a few cheap additions wasnt bad at all. Anyone think we will get within a point next season? Wenger reached 2 European finals in 22 years and lost both - no shame in the Barca final, but losing to fucking Galatasaray with the team we had then....unforgiveable

If Arteta wins the FA Cup I will give him the credit he deserves. The last 3 games of the run were all tough ones and he would rightly be praised for that. Next season is the real test for him as he will face what Dick did - players he doesn't want but who were left on outrageous contracts and can't be shifted. So I dont want to hear any excuses about Mustafi, Ozil and Xhaka not being his players because nor were they Emery's.

Sid - just about every game last season you slammed every substitution or tactical decision that Emery made and called him every name under the sun. I just find it odd that Arteta can make equally baffling choices (Kolasinac, Willock, Xhaka etc) but that's fine?

As for the argument about games being dead rubbers....well perhaps you should ask the question why there are so many dead rubbers to start with. The league season was dead two games after the league restart, with that shameful defeat at Brighton that was every bit as bad as anything either of the previous managers served up. A team that hadn't fucking won since Christmas and are absolutely shite. People slated Emery's last few games of last season (and I agree with some justification) but mostly because those games mattered as we were still chasing CL qualification until the penultimate game. Rather have that personally than the league season done and dusted weeks before the end
Steveo, all pisstaking and mutual winding up aside :wink:
On Emery, I wanted him so much to succeed, but the warning signs were there very early!
Persisting on playing out from the back, with a goalkeeper and players who weren’t capable.
Team selections, tactics, being totally outplayed in the first half of every game, but miraculously avoiding defeat due to inexplicable poor finishing by the oppositin resulting in the most fortuitous run in football history. We all knew however that once we faced quality opposition we’d be fucked!
Against the victims, it could and probably should have been a ten goal drubbing!
It was downhill from then.
Despite that, the unbeaten run and spurs end of season capitulation in the league, offered us the simplest of chances to qualify for the clge.
So instead of praising getting to within a point of qualification, we should have been damning his failure not to qualify!
On Arteta, I want him to succeed, just as I did Emery.
When judging Arteta, the first thing to acknowledge, is unlike Emery, virtually none of this squad are his signings!
Emery had 8 of his own signings? if it turned out that only 3 were good enough to start, then that’s down to him.
Arteta has made mistakes, but the difference is, he seems to learn from them!
Since the resumption, we’ ve been playing basically three times a week, so kolasinic etc, were always going to feature, when we lost to Citeh in the first game, clge qualification was a longshot dependent on others fucking up and us winning almost every game.
He has however got us into the cup final, beating Citeh in the semi, was arguably our best performance as a clear underdog, since the Graham era, PSG and Parma spring to mind!
He has also not been tempted to recall Ozil or Dozy, both of whom are a disgrace to our club!
So, that’s why I’m still getting behind Arteta, if, come Xmas, he has 5 or 6 additions to his squad and we are struggling, then that’s different!

Post Reply