As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
can't you see how annoyed the country is by this ?
I can see how some are . but I am old enough and ugly enough to know that the incident is done and dusted and can't be undone , so i suggest that you cast your displeasure and then in the words of "HERD" wipe your mouth and move on .
There are far more important things going on at the moment .
The New Statesman.........."of the left, for the left"
I don't remember him specifically referring to "blog" posts when he made a couple of references to previous warnings about pandemics. He may well have been talking about internal memos / policy docs. I hope you've watched it all back to make sure you're right or have read the entire transcript. I take it the NS have decided it's all about blogs now as presumably they can throw more shit at DC if they take it in that direction. I didn't take those remarks as part of his explanation for what he did or of any relevance to the matter at hand tbh.
I really hope that you and tux are good law abiding citizens to take such umbrage at the actions of a man who had the good sense to try and protect his family.
Denying he opposed lockdown measures at yesterday’s conference, he said: ‘Last year I wrote about the possible threat of coronaviruses and the urgent need for planning.’
No mention of internal memos, he has his own personal blog.
The new statesman didn't amend his blog on April 14th to add the word "Coronavirus" did they?
Ok, so this lot are left-wing as well, are they? Having a default of anyone or any reference to wanting Cummings to resign/be sacked is a raging lefty is so far off the mark. There are thousands of Tories that wan't him gone from grassroots right up to cabinet level.
Sorry Jock, you are defending the indefensible. I watched the whole press briefing did you?
Hang on folks let's keep the allegations relevant and on track shall we, you are drifiting off course.
Whether he was for or against lockdown is irrelevant to his case. For what it's worth the release of the minutes from SAGE meetings around the time of lockdown will establish that in the fullness of time.
The whole writing about pandemics thing is also irrelevant - what does that convict him of??
My point about internal memos is just to demonstrate that there was no specific mention of his personal blog either (as far as I recall). If he didn't actually state where "he wrote" about pandemics then he may have written other pieces which we are unaware of. You can't just assume that he was referring solely to his blog - another missed opportunity by the assembled press to pin him on that point. It's all very desperate to 'get him'.
Not that it matters but having read your link it states that DC's original unamended post actually contained a link to an article about Coronavirus. For whatever reason he later decided to amend and include the coronavirus name in the body of his blog. Maybe it was vanity on his part for only linking a coronavirus article but not actually naming it outright. Who knows? But again, what does this actually prove? Nothing!!
Bottom line - he gave his story, it was actually quite a reasonable account and all the (mainly) leftie's who hate DC with a passion are latching onto anything they can in an attempt to keep throwing more shit at him. Yes about 10% of the Tories have a beef with DC which isn't a total surprise so they are having a moan too. I would have done exactly the same as him in the same situation and that's just a fact. As I said before, if his version of events for his movements are false then he should be picked up on ANPR and then he can be hanged.
In the meantime if his reason for breaking the lockdown is deemed insufficient then tell you what, pop a fine in the post to him cos he's a bad boy.
The only reason things are drifting off course is that you keep labelling people or articles left-wing or liberal if they want rid of Cummings. Lets just put this straight, as things stand there are people of all political persuasions including over 35 Tory MPS that want this unelected bureaucrat to go (heard that somewhere before?). There also is a consensus in the wider population that what he did broke the rules, its not even open to debate. MPs have been inundated with letters/emails from their constituents, again from all political persuasions.
The discussion about predicting pandemics is relevant, especially when the government response has been found to be poor. As far as I am concerned this came up because he was using his blog as a way of squirming out of the allegations. I don't get where you keep referring to internal memos, again did you even watch or read the transcript from the press conference? If you didn't I don't know how you can form any credible opinion.
Regardless of this, to amend his blog on the 14th of April is way too much coincidence. As I said before he knew the shit was going to hit the fan, this was part of his cover-up.
In regards to his story, and yes it is a story the one thing he cannot justify over everything else is his visual impairment driving 30 miles in the wrong direction to see if he can make it to London. If his eyesight is impaired he shouldn't get into a car period, and that's under any circumstance, not just a national lockdown.
Your last comment would be fair enough if it applied to a normal citizen, but it doesn't. It applies to the most senior civil servant in the land, who directly advises the Prime Minister on wait for it Policy matters. So if he is writing the rules, and blatantly disregarding them that is why so many people are peeved with him.
By the way, SAGE minutes are widely available across the internet to read about the scientific advice that was given to the government in the run-up to lockdown. That's how it's quite well known if you look hard enough that the lockdown directive came on the 7th of March. They said to lockdown within two weeks. Now for me, if you've been given this scientific advice you don't wait 14 days let alone 16 you act immediately.
During these 16 days, two major sporting events were allowed to take place.
And SAGE is an independent body, but Dominic Cummings in his own way has made sure he stuck his oar in when it came to their policy directives to the govt. He is a bad egg at all levels. The death rates and disastrous handling of care homes prove it.
People want DC out....not enough Tory revolt over the matter to be of any relevance yet. That could change, time will tell.
He isn't being hanged for a poor govt response ffs. He went to Durham remember - that is his alleged crime. The point about Pandemic writing is not relevant to his trip to Durham - don't you see that!! You are dragging in the seperate matter of the govt response. Irrelevant to what he is "accused" of doing. I have no intention of rewatching the presser but as I recall (I said that before - little clue!) he made no mention of where he wrote about Pandemics so you can't just turn to his blog and say that is what he was referring to unless you get him to say so which the leftie press missed out on because they were too het up with fake moral outrage and wanting him to apologise or spontaneously self combust. In a court of law you can't just assume it was his blog you have to prove it.
Oh please tell me all about the RTA 1988 and visual impairment.....I'm all eyes and ears! I'll save you bother, your generalised remark above is of course inaccurate, some would even say incorrect. To drive a car you have to be able to read a number plate from about 20m away, so as long as DC could do that then he was perfectly entitled to have a little test drive out and about. Of course it's a bit too late to prove the extent of any visual impairment now so that's just another irrelevance that a court would throw out. Next!
Oh DC is a civil servant now is he....you sure?.....and the most senior one in the land too.....you sure about that too? Maybe you wrote that a bit too hastily eh? Mark Sedwell will be pissed to hear the news though. That statement gets thrown out too.
Oh and while we are correcting your work the full scientific advice, data, recommendations etc for SAGE will not be released until after the pandemic is over. There may have been some bits and pieces released but the full story hasn't been yet. I suggest that you hold fire until it becomes apparent who made the decisions about care homes etc before you start accusing people. I like a little bit of evidence to back a statement however from your post I can see you're not so fussy about that.
So in summary, if you don't like the fact that DC acted within the guidelines and thought for himself then send him a lockdown fine!
As I said its all there if you look for it. Without these documents, the press wouldn't be stringing up the Government with regards to the care home debacle. An article about eyesight, perhaps his eye problems were a figment of his imagination? Maybe that's why he took the wrong route back to London?
I am losing the will to live when I click on this thread Just when jock and tux were putting it to bed, in came nut flush and a11m11
That's because we fucked up more than you lot did, and people still won't acknowledge the part certain people are playing in potentially causing more deaths because they don't lead by example. The stats show our death rate per mill is about 40% higher than yours.
Denying he opposed lockdown measures at yesterday’s conference, he said: ‘Last year I wrote about the possible threat of coronaviruses and the urgent need for planning.’
No mention of internal memos, he has his own personal blog.
The new statesman didn't amend his blog on April 14th to add the word "Coronavirus" did they?
Ok, so this lot are left-wing as well, are they? Having a default of anyone or any reference to wanting Cummings to resign/be sacked is a raging lefty is so far off the mark. There are thousands of Tories that wan't him gone from grassroots right up to cabinet level.
Sorry Jock, you are defending the indefensible. I watched the whole press briefing did you?
Hang on folks let's keep the allegations relevant and on track shall we, you are drifiting off course.
Whether he was for or against lockdown is irrelevant to his case. For what it's worth the release of the minutes from SAGE meetings around the time of lockdown will establish that in the fullness of time.
The whole writing about pandemics thing is also irrelevant - what does that convict him of??
My point about internal memos is just to demonstrate that there was no specific mention of his personal blog either (as far as I recall). If he didn't actually state where "he wrote" about pandemics then he may have written other pieces which we are unaware of. You can't just assume that he was referring solely to his blog - another missed opportunity by the assembled press to pin him on that point. It's all very desperate to 'get him'.
Not that it matters but having read your link it states that DC's original unamended post actually contained a link to an article about Coronavirus. For whatever reason he later decided to amend and include the coronavirus name in the body of his blog. Maybe it was vanity on his part for only linking a coronavirus article but not actually naming it outright. Who knows? But again, what does this actually prove? Nothing!!
Bottom line - he gave his story, it was actually quite a reasonable account and all the (mainly) leftie's who hate DC with a passion are latching onto anything they can in an attempt to keep throwing more shit at him. Yes about 10% of the Tories have a beef with DC which isn't a total surprise so they are having a moan too. I would have done exactly the same as him in the same situation and that's just a fact. As I said before, if his version of events for his movements are false then he should be picked up on ANPR and then he can be hanged.
In the meantime if his reason for breaking the lockdown is deemed insufficient then tell you what, pop a fine in the post to him cos he's a bad boy.
The only reason things are drifting off course is that you keep labelling people or articles left-wing or liberal if they want rid of Cummings. Lets just put this straight, as things stand there are people of all political persuasions including over 35 Tory MPS that want this unelected bureaucrat to go (heard that somewhere before?). There also is a consensus in the wider population that what he did broke the rules, its not even open to debate. MPs have been inundated with letters/emails from their constituents, again from all political persuasions.
The discussion about predicting pandemics is relevant, especially when the government response has been found to be poor. As far as I am concerned this came up because he was using his blog as a way of squirming out of the allegations. I don't get where you keep referring to internal memos, again did you even watch or read the transcript from the press conference? If you didn't I don't know how you can form any credible opinion.
Regardless of this, to amend his blog on the 14th of April is way too much coincidence. As I said before he knew the shit was going to hit the fan, this was part of his cover-up.
In regards to his story, and yes it is a story the one thing he cannot justify over everything else is his visual impairment driving 30 miles in the wrong direction to see if he can make it to London. If his eyesight is impaired he shouldn't get into a car period, and that's under any circumstance, not just a national lockdown.
Your last comment would be fair enough if it applied to a normal citizen, but it doesn't. It applies to the most senior civil servant in the land, who directly advises the Prime Minister on wait for it Policy matters. So if he is writing the rules, and blatantly disregarding them that is why so many people are peeved with him.
By the way, SAGE minutes are widely available across the internet to read about the scientific advice that was given to the government in the run-up to lockdown. That's how it's quite well known if you look hard enough that the lockdown directive came on the 7th of March. They said to lockdown within two weeks. Now for me, if you've been given this scientific advice you don't wait 14 days let alone 16 you act immediately.
During these 16 days, two major sporting events were allowed to take place.
And SAGE is an independent body, but Dominic Cummings in his own way has made sure he stuck his oar in when it came to their policy directives to the govt. He is a bad egg at all levels. The death rates and disastrous handling of care homes prove it.
People want DC out....not enough Tory revolt over the matter to be of any relevance yet. That could change, time will tell.
He isn't being hanged for a poor govt response ffs. He went to Durham remember - that is his alleged crime. The point about Pandemic writing is not relevant to his trip to Durham - don't you see that!! You are dragging in the seperate matter of the govt response. Irrelevant to what he is "accused" of doing. I have no intention of rewatching the presser but as I recall (I said that before - little clue!) he made no mention of where he wrote about Pandemics so you can't just turn to his blog and say that is what he was referring to unless you get him to say so which the leftie press missed out on because they were too het up with fake moral outrage and wanting him to apologise or spontaneously self combust. In a court of law you can't just assume it was his blog you have to prove it.
Oh please tell me all about the RTA 1988 and visual impairment.....I'm all eyes and ears! I'll save you bother, your generalised remark above is of course inaccurate, some would even say incorrect. To drive a car you have to be able to read a number plate from about 20m away, so as long as DC could do that then he was perfectly entitled to have a little test drive out and about. Of course it's a bit too late to prove the extent of any visual impairment now so that's just another irrelevance that a court would throw out. Next!
Oh DC is a civil servant now is he....you sure?.....and the most senior one in the land too.....you sure about that too? Maybe you wrote that a bit too hastily eh? Mark Sedwell will be pissed to hear the news though. That statement gets thrown out too.
Oh and while we are correcting your work the full scientific advice, data, recommendations etc for SAGE will not be released until after the pandemic is over. There may have been some bits and pieces released but the full story hasn't been yet. I suggest that you hold fire until it becomes apparent who made the decisions about care homes etc before you start accusing people. I like a little bit of evidence to back a statement however from your post I can see you're not so fussy about that.
So in summary, if you don't like the fact that DC acted within the guidelines and thought for himself then send him a lockdown fine!
As I said its all there if you look for it. Without these documents, the press wouldn't be stringing up the Government with regards to the care home debacle. An article about eyesight, perhaps his eye problems were a figment of his imagination? Maybe that's why he took the wrong route back to London?
All I see is a lot of hot air from your debate, I will come back to the rest of your points if relevant over the next few days.
I think you need to look a bit closer as my debate has pointed out some pretty big holes in yours. Many of your facts are wrong or made up on the hoof and it's all rather glaringly obvious.
The point at hand is whether big bad Dom did wrong by travelling to Durham and then to the castle but you insist on jumping about all over the place rather than concentrating on the allegation. The best thing for you to do is to stop digging.
Don't bother coming back to me over the next few days as I have lost all faith in your ability to construct any form of coherent argument after your last but one post which was a tad embarrassing.
I am losing the will to live when I click on this thread Just when jock and tux were putting it to bed, in came nut flush and a11m11
That's because we fucked up more than you lot did, and people still won't acknowledge the part certain people are playing in potentially causing more deaths because they don't lead by example. The stats show our death rate per mill is about 40% higher than yours.
Hey, give me a shout when you can put a number to that allegation. Can't wait to see that in court..........
"I put it to you Dominic Cummings that you did cause lots and lots of deaths by not leading by example."
Rough mathmatics though Eire have had 21 deaths per square mile whereas the Uk has had 25 . Not such a big gap there . The uk is much more densly populated and a virus like this is more likely to spread in confined areas. hence the 2 metre rule.
I am losing the will to live when I click on this thread Just when jock and tux were putting it to bed, in came nut flush and a11m11
That's because we fucked up more than you lot did, and people still won't acknowledge the part certain people are playing in potentially causing more deaths because they don't lead by example. The stats show our death rate per mill is about 40% higher than yours.
Hey, give me a shout when you can put a number to that allegation. Can't wait to see that in court..........
"I put it to you Dominic Cummings that you did cause lots and lots of deaths by not leading by example."
Rough mathmatics though Eire have had 21 deaths per square mile whereas the Uk has had 25 . Not such a big gap there . The uk is much more densly populated and a virus like this is more likely to spread in confined areas. hence the 2 metre rule.
What Hungarian site did you get that from ??!!!
With regards to social distancing, the 2m we are using is the highest in the world if you followed the WHO guidelines you will see the recommended distance is 1m. However, when you cough and sneeze respiratory droplets can go up to 9 metres depending on the conditions. For me, 2m is fine especially if you are in an air-conditioned building. It's nothing to do with population density, the PM said yesterday it was UK scientists that recommended 2m.
Hang on folks let's keep the allegations relevant and on track shall we, you are drifiting off course.
Whether he was for or against lockdown is irrelevant to his case. For what it's worth the release of the minutes from SAGE meetings around the time of lockdown will establish that in the fullness of time.
The whole writing about pandemics thing is also irrelevant - what does that convict him of??
My point about internal memos is just to demonstrate that there was no specific mention of his personal blog either (as far as I recall). If he didn't actually state where "he wrote" about pandemics then he may have written other pieces which we are unaware of. You can't just assume that he was referring solely to his blog - another missed opportunity by the assembled press to pin him on that point. It's all very desperate to 'get him'.
Not that it matters but having read your link it states that DC's original unamended post actually contained a link to an article about Coronavirus. For whatever reason he later decided to amend and include the coronavirus name in the body of his blog. Maybe it was vanity on his part for only linking a coronavirus article but not actually naming it outright. Who knows? But again, what does this actually prove? Nothing!!
Bottom line - he gave his story, it was actually quite a reasonable account and all the (mainly) leftie's who hate DC with a passion are latching onto anything they can in an attempt to keep throwing more shit at him. Yes about 10% of the Tories have a beef with DC which isn't a total surprise so they are having a moan too. I would have done exactly the same as him in the same situation and that's just a fact. As I said before, if his version of events for his movements are false then he should be picked up on ANPR and then he can be hanged.
In the meantime if his reason for breaking the lockdown is deemed insufficient then tell you what, pop a fine in the post to him cos he's a bad boy.
The only reason things are drifting off course is that you keep labelling people or articles left-wing or liberal if they want rid of Cummings. Lets just put this straight, as things stand there are people of all political persuasions including over 35 Tory MPS that want this unelected bureaucrat to go (heard that somewhere before?). There also is a consensus in the wider population that what he did broke the rules, its not even open to debate. MPs have been inundated with letters/emails from their constituents, again from all political persuasions.
The discussion about predicting pandemics is relevant, especially when the government response has been found to be poor. As far as I am concerned this came up because he was using his blog as a way of squirming out of the allegations. I don't get where you keep referring to internal memos, again did you even watch or read the transcript from the press conference? If you didn't I don't know how you can form any credible opinion.
Regardless of this, to amend his blog on the 14th of April is way too much coincidence. As I said before he knew the shit was going to hit the fan, this was part of his cover-up.
In regards to his story, and yes it is a story the one thing he cannot justify over everything else is his visual impairment driving 30 miles in the wrong direction to see if he can make it to London. If his eyesight is impaired he shouldn't get into a car period, and that's under any circumstance, not just a national lockdown.
Your last comment would be fair enough if it applied to a normal citizen, but it doesn't. It applies to the most senior civil servant in the land, who directly advises the Prime Minister on wait for it Policy matters. So if he is writing the rules, and blatantly disregarding them that is why so many people are peeved with him.
By the way, SAGE minutes are widely available across the internet to read about the scientific advice that was given to the government in the run-up to lockdown. That's how it's quite well known if you look hard enough that the lockdown directive came on the 7th of March. They said to lockdown within two weeks. Now for me, if you've been given this scientific advice you don't wait 14 days let alone 16 you act immediately.
During these 16 days, two major sporting events were allowed to take place.
And SAGE is an independent body, but Dominic Cummings in his own way has made sure he stuck his oar in when it came to their policy directives to the govt. He is a bad egg at all levels. The death rates and disastrous handling of care homes prove it.
People want DC out....not enough Tory revolt over the matter to be of any relevance yet. That could change, time will tell.
He isn't being hanged for a poor govt response ffs. He went to Durham remember - that is his alleged crime. The point about Pandemic writing is not relevant to his trip to Durham - don't you see that!! You are dragging in the seperate matter of the govt response. Irrelevant to what he is "accused" of doing. I have no intention of rewatching the presser but as I recall (I said that before - little clue!) he made no mention of where he wrote about Pandemics so you can't just turn to his blog and say that is what he was referring to unless you get him to say so which the leftie press missed out on because they were too het up with fake moral outrage and wanting him to apologise or spontaneously self combust. In a court of law you can't just assume it was his blog you have to prove it.
Oh please tell me all about the RTA 1988 and visual impairment.....I'm all eyes and ears! I'll save you bother, your generalised remark above is of course inaccurate, some would even say incorrect. To drive a car you have to be able to read a number plate from about 20m away, so as long as DC could do that then he was perfectly entitled to have a little test drive out and about. Of course it's a bit too late to prove the extent of any visual impairment now so that's just another irrelevance that a court would throw out. Next!
Oh DC is a civil servant now is he....you sure?.....and the most senior one in the land too.....you sure about that too? Maybe you wrote that a bit too hastily eh? Mark Sedwell will be pissed to hear the news though. That statement gets thrown out too.
Oh and while we are correcting your work the full scientific advice, data, recommendations etc for SAGE will not be released until after the pandemic is over. There may have been some bits and pieces released but the full story hasn't been yet. I suggest that you hold fire until it becomes apparent who made the decisions about care homes etc before you start accusing people. I like a little bit of evidence to back a statement however from your post I can see you're not so fussy about that.
So in summary, if you don't like the fact that DC acted within the guidelines and thought for himself then send him a lockdown fine!
As I said its all there if you look for it. Without these documents, the press wouldn't be stringing up the Government with regards to the care home debacle. An article about eyesight, perhaps his eye problems were a figment of his imagination? Maybe that's why he took the wrong route back to London?
All I see is a lot of hot air from your debate, I will come back to the rest of your points if relevant over the next few days.
I think you need to look a bit closer as my debate has pointed out some pretty big holes in yours. Many of your facts are wrong or made up on the hoof and it's all rather glaringly obvious.
The point at hand is whether big bad Dom did wrong by travelling to Durham and then to the castle but you insist on jumping about all over the place rather than concentrating on the allegation. The best thing for you to do is to stop digging.
Don't bother coming back to me over the next few days as I have lost all faith in your ability to construct any form of coherent argument after your last but one post which was a tad embarrassing.
Yes, I agree that the issue was whether he did wrong and it's pretty obvious he did. He could have arranged childcare from London. he didn't need to drive that distance in lockdown. He had COVID19 symptoms so he was infectious and he didn't follow his own guidelines. He had eye problems, so shouldn't have got in a car.
Apparently one of the symptoms of COVID19 is conjunctivitis, whether he could read a number plate or not was irrelevant, he would be experiencing great discomfort trying a long-distance drive. I've had conjunctivitis and wouldn't contemplate a drive that long. He wasn't fit to drive to London, the trip to Barnard Castle was NOT a direct route to London.
Sorry, Jock you can keep on defending the indefensible but the majority of people in this country aren't stupid and can see this man for what he is. A liar and a fraud. I am just watching a survey of Conservative voters on Bloomberg, 63% want him sacked, 18% say he shouldn't be. If you're gullible enough to believe what he says that really isn't my problem.
Rough mathmatics though Eire have had 21 deaths per square mile whereas the Uk has had 25 . Not such a big gap there . The uk is much more densly populated and a virus like this is more likely to spread in confined areas. hence the 2 metre rule.
What Hungarian site did you get that from ??!!!
With regards to social distancing, the 2m we are using is the highest in the world if you followed the WHO guidelines you will see the recommended distance is 1m. However, when you cough and sneeze respiratory droplets can go up to 9 metres depending on the conditions. For me, 2m is fine especially if you are in an air-conditioned building. It's nothing to do with population density, the PM said yesterday it was UK scientists that recommended 2m.
Tbf that 2m distancing is still being used in a number of countries including Ireland (much to everyone's frustration) Because modern society is in essence stupid/braindead we cant use different restrictions for different situations, but the restrictions for outdoor distancing should be dropped to 1m (maybe even .5m), but some people might get confused at start ignoring the 2m inside rule
On our news tuesday night they showed the distancing guidelines being used in something like 20 countries - just over half were using 2m, america are using 1.8m (assuming that is a metric to feet conversion thing), a few are 1.5m, and something like 8 countries were 1m
Rough mathmatics though Eire have had 21 deaths per square mile whereas the Uk has had 25 . Not such a big gap there . The uk is much more densly populated and a virus like this is more likely to spread in confined areas. hence the 2 metre rule.
What Hungarian site did you get that from ??!!!
With regards to social distancing, the 2m we are using is the highest in the world if you followed the WHO guidelines you will see the recommended distance is 1m. However, when you cough and sneeze respiratory droplets can go up to 9 metres depending on the conditions. For me, 2m is fine especially if you are in an air-conditioned building. It's nothing to do with population density, the PM said yesterday it was UK scientists that recommended 2m.
Tbf that 2m distancing is still being used in a number of countries including Ireland (much to everyone's frustration) Because modern society is in essence stupid/braindead we cant use different restrictions for different situations, but the restrictions for outdoor distancing should be dropped to 1m (maybe even .5m), but some people might get confused at start ignoring the 2m inside rule
On our news tuesday night they showed the distancing guidelines being used in something like 20 countries - just over half were using 2m, america are using 1.8m (assuming that is a metric to feet conversion thing), a few are 1.5m, and something like 8 countries were 1m
You also have to factor in the use of masks in Asia most people wear them, I think South Korea uses one arm's length as a guideline which seems a bit strange to me, but regardless if you are asymptomatic and wear a mask then you are preventing up to 95% of the viral load you emit from being transmitted to someone else. In the UK and US, although more people wear masks these days its still the minority.
