CoronaVirus / Adolf Putin / The Apocalypse etc

[Nos89]

Wales announce a national circuit breaker lockdown from this Friday, for 17 days. Schools have two week half term. Bars, restaurants, etc.... close down.
I'm still able to move freely between a tier 3 city and national lockdown because I'm classified as a key worker. Really doesn't make sense to me at all. I think a review of key worker status is dramatically needed. Retail workers are now dropping like flies after being frontline key workers for the entire pandemic. If this government is serious about stopping the spread they MUST close down large supermarkets to the public for at least 3 weeks. Any shop with shopping space of over 5,000 sq ft MUST be closed to the public. for a limited time.
Retail supermarkets employ students, carers for elderly and vulnerable, and of course parents with children of school going age. It has been massively underestimated the role large supermarkets has had as a breeding ground of the the latest surge in positive tests. It is no coincidence that with schools and university going back has enabled coronavirus to spread through different sources. When schools and universities were closed, retail had very few cases, now they are multiplying at a very fast pace.

[augie]

Wales announce a national circuit breaker lockdown from this Friday, for 17 days. Schools have two week half term. Bars, restaurants, etc.... close down.
I'm still able to move freely between a tier 3 city and national lockdown because I'm classified as a key worker. Really doesn't make sense to me at all. I think a review of key worker status is dramatically needed. Retail workers are now dropping like flies after being frontline key workers for the entire pandemic. If this government is serious about stopping the spread they MUST close down large supermarkets to the public for at least 3 weeks. Any shop with shopping space of over 5,000 sq ft MUST be closed to the public. for a limited time.
Retail supermarkets employ students, carers for elderly and vulnerable, and of course parents with children of school going age. It has been massively underestimated the role large supermarkets has had as a breeding ground of the the latest surge in positive tests. It is no coincidence that with schools and university going back has enabled coronavirus to spread through different sources. When schools and universities were closed, retail had very few cases, now they are multiplying at a very fast pace.

I love this "circuit breaker" term that has now become the cool phrase for a policy that is never ending cos lockdowns will NOT work - a circuit breaker (as our dickhead government have just introduced tonight ) is by it's very design meant to be a brief relief from climbing numbers, but because it is only brief respite it will be needed again many times in the future

[nut flush gooner]

Wales announce a national circuit breaker lockdown from this Friday, for 17 days. Schools have two week half term. Bars, restaurants, etc.... close down.
I'm still able to move freely between a tier 3 city and national lockdown because I'm classified as a key worker. Really doesn't make sense to me at all. I think a review of key worker status is dramatically needed. Retail workers are now dropping like flies after being frontline key workers for the entire pandemic. If this government is serious about stopping the spread they MUST close down large supermarkets to the public for at least 3 weeks. Any shop with shopping space of over 5,000 sq ft MUST be closed to the public. for a limited time.
Retail supermarkets employ students, carers for elderly and vulnerable, and of course parents with children of school going age. It has been massively underestimated the role large supermarkets has had as a breeding ground of the the latest surge in positive tests. It is no coincidence that with schools and university going back has enabled coronavirus to spread through different sources. When schools and universities were closed, retail had very few cases, now they are multiplying at a very fast pace.

I love this "circuit breaker" term that has now become the cool phrase for a policy that is never ending cos lockdowns will NOT work - a circuit breaker (as our dickhead government have just introduced tonight ) is by it's very design meant to be a brief relief from climbing numbers, but because it is only brief respite it will be needed again many times in the future

Lockdowns do work Augie when you go hard, early and close borders. Greece, Germany, New Zealand and Australia are examples.We did none of these and now every country in the UK Is doing different things. Lockdowns inevitably wont work in these circumstances, add to that non compliance by the population of the basics and its a massive cluster fuck.

Looks like ROI might end up getting sucked into the UK mire with NI infections out of control.

[g88ner]

I love this "circuit breaker" term that has now become the cool phrase for a policy that is never ending cos lockdowns will NOT work - a circuit breaker (as our dickhead government have just introduced tonight ) is by it's very design meant to be a brief relief from climbing numbers, but because it is only brief respite it will be needed again many times in the future

Lockdowns do work Augie when you go hard, early and close borders. Greece, Germany, New Zealand and Australia are examples.We did none of these and now every country in the UK Is doing different things. Lockdowns inevitably wont work in these circumstances, add to that non compliance by the population of the basics and its a massive cluster fuck.

Looks like ROI might end up getting sucked into the UK mire with NI infections out of control.

Agree with both of you. Augie is probably right that a lockdown WON’T work (in UK and Ireland) but nut flush is right that it DOES work if everyone is on board and willing to obey the rules... that’s why it’s worked beautifully in Asia and dreadfully In other parts of the world.

In Singapore, they used the term “circuit breaker” in March. They put the country into a 2-3 month lockdown and made it clear that it would only be eased if the general public fully bought into wearing masks, social distancing and groups of no more than 5. It’s worked incredibly well... but Brits will never buy into that approach so you’re basically fucked.

And the fact that, even after all the deaths, economic & social disruption in the UK over the last 6 months, the general public still can’t be convinced to do something as basic and trivial as wearing a mask is quite shocking. Utterly mental.

[DB10GOONER]

I love this "circuit breaker" term that has now become the cool phrase for a policy that is never ending cos lockdowns will NOT work - a circuit breaker (as our dickhead government have just introduced tonight ) is by it's very design meant to be a brief relief from climbing numbers, but because it is only brief respite it will be needed again many times in the future

Lockdowns do work Augie when you go hard, early and close borders. Greece, Germany, New Zealand and Australia are examples.We did none of these and now every country in the UK Is doing different things. Lockdowns inevitably wont work in these circumstances, add to that non compliance by the population of the basics and its a massive cluster fuck.

Looks like ROI might end up getting sucked into the UK mire with NI infections out of control.

Agree with both of you. Augie is probably right that a lockdown WON’T work (in UK and Ireland) but nut flush is right that it DOES work if everyone is on board and willing to obey the rules... that’s why it’s worked beautifully in Asia and dreadfully In other parts of the world.

In Singapore, they used the term “circuit breaker” in March. They put the country into a 2-3 month lockdown and made it clear that it would only be eased if the general public fully bought into wearing masks, social distancing and groups of no more than 5. It’s worked incredibly well... but Brits will never buy into that approach so you’re basically fucked.

And the fact that, even after all the deaths, economic & social disruption in the UK over the last 6 months, the general public still can’t be convinced to do something as basic and trivial as wearing a mask is quite shocking. Utterly mental.

100% nail on the head there g88ner.

[nut flush gooner]

I love this "circuit breaker" term that has now become the cool phrase for a policy that is never ending cos lockdowns will NOT work - a circuit breaker (as our dickhead government have just introduced tonight ) is by it's very design meant to be a brief relief from climbing numbers, but because it is only brief respite it will be needed again many times in the future

Lockdowns do work Augie when you go hard, early and close borders. Greece, Germany, New Zealand and Australia are examples.We did none of these and now every country in the UK Is doing different things. Lockdowns inevitably wont work in these circumstances, add to that non compliance by the population of the basics and its a massive cluster fuck.

Looks like ROI might end up getting sucked into the UK mire with NI infections out of control.

Agree with both of you. Augie is probably right that a lockdown WON’T work (in UK and Ireland) but nut flush is right that it DOES work if everyone is on board and willing to obey the rules... that’s why it’s worked beautifully in Asia and dreadfully In other parts of the world.

In Singapore, they used the term “circuit breaker” in March. They put the country into a 2-3 month lockdown and made it clear that it would only be eased if the general public fully bought into wearing masks, social distancing and groups of no more than 5. It’s worked incredibly well... but Brits will never buy into that approach so you’re basically fucked.

And the fact that, even after all the deaths, economic & social disruption in the UK over the last 6 months, the general public still can’t be convinced to do something as basic and trivial as wearing a mask is quite shocking. Utterly mental.

100% nail on the head there g88ner.

He's spot-on as a panic measure Lockdown is pointless, but it's almost as if you have no choice unless you are prepared to let tens of thousands die. The flip side is all the non COVID issues don't get treated. Keeping the economy open doesn't prevent a downturn if deaths increase exponentially, it causes a collapse in confidence which probably isn't much worse than the effects of lockdown.

[augie]

Wales announce a national circuit breaker lockdown from this Friday, for 17 days. Schools have two week half term. Bars, restaurants, etc.... close down.
I'm still able to move freely between a tier 3 city and national lockdown because I'm classified as a key worker. Really doesn't make sense to me at all. I think a review of key worker status is dramatically needed. Retail workers are now dropping like flies after being frontline key workers for the entire pandemic. If this government is serious about stopping the spread they MUST close down large supermarkets to the public for at least 3 weeks. Any shop with shopping space of over 5,000 sq ft MUST be closed to the public. for a limited time.
Retail supermarkets employ students, carers for elderly and vulnerable, and of course parents with children of school going age. It has been massively underestimated the role large supermarkets has had as a breeding ground of the the latest surge in positive tests. It is no coincidence that with schools and university going back has enabled coronavirus to spread through different sources. When schools and universities were closed, retail had very few cases, now they are multiplying at a very fast pace.

I love this "circuit breaker" term that has now become the cool phrase for a policy that is never ending cos lockdowns will NOT work - a circuit breaker (as our dickhead government have just introduced tonight ) is by it's very design meant to be a brief relief from climbing numbers, but because it is only brief respite it will be needed again many times in the future

Lockdowns do work Augie when you go hard, early and close borders. Greece, Germany, New Zealand and Australia are examples.We did none of these and now every country in the UK Is doing different things. Lockdowns inevitably wont work in these circumstances, add to that non compliance by the population of the basics and its a massive cluster fuck.

Looks like ROI might end up getting sucked into the UK mire with NI infections out of control.

Economically we will NEVER be in a position to lockdown our borders for any length of time - months ago I believed that if we looked our borders (like new zealand), then we could rid our island of this virus, but the reality is that economically we depend on business with other countries so need to keep our doors open. With the doors open a lockdown will not work - you can delude yourself all you want but borders open will mean a high risk of people bringing it into the country (just recently we had a guy went foreign, didnt self isolate, and has now spread it to 56 people ).

Make no mistake, we are locking down to aid a failing health service - by official records, the amount of cases we have in icu's and general wards is less than a quarter of what it was 5 months ago, so why lock down now ? Apparently the average age of those infected has dropped sharply so maybe younger people are (mostly) in a better position to fight it and dont need hospitalisation ? One thing I do know is that economically it will take decades for our country to come out of this mess, and the more we lockdown, the harder it will be to get back on track

[nut flush gooner]

Wales announce a national circuit breaker lockdown from this Friday, for 17 days. Schools have two week half term. Bars, restaurants, etc.... close down.
I'm still able to move freely between a tier 3 city and national lockdown because I'm classified as a key worker. Really doesn't make sense to me at all. I think a review of key worker status is dramatically needed. Retail workers are now dropping like flies after being frontline key workers for the entire pandemic. If this government is serious about stopping the spread they MUST close down large supermarkets to the public for at least 3 weeks. Any shop with shopping space of over 5,000 sq ft MUST be closed to the public. for a limited time.
Retail supermarkets employ students, carers for elderly and vulnerable, and of course parents with children of school going age. It has been massively underestimated the role large supermarkets has had as a breeding ground of the the latest surge in positive tests. It is no coincidence that with schools and university going back has enabled coronavirus to spread through different sources. When schools and universities were closed, retail had very few cases, now they are multiplying at a very fast pace.

I love this "circuit breaker" term that has now become the cool phrase for a policy that is never ending cos lockdowns will NOT work - a circuit breaker (as our dickhead government have just introduced tonight ) is by it's very design meant to be a brief relief from climbing numbers, but because it is only brief respite it will be needed again many times in the future

Lockdowns do work Augie when you go hard, early and close borders. Greece, Germany, New Zealand and Australia are examples.We did none of these and now every country in the UK Is doing different things. Lockdowns inevitably wont work in these circumstances, add to that non compliance by the population of the basics and its a massive cluster fuck.

Looks like ROI might end up getting sucked into the UK mire with NI infections out of control.

Economically we will NEVER be in a position to lockdown our borders for any length of time - months ago I believed that if we looked our borders (like new zealand), then we could rid our island of this virus, but the reality is that economically we depend on business with other countries so need to keep our doors open. With the doors open a lockdown will not work - you can delude yourself all you want but borders open will mean a high risk of people bringing it into the country (just recently we had a guy went foreign, didnt self isolate, and has now spread it to 56 people ).

Make no mistake, we are locking down to aid a failing health service - by official records, the amount of cases we have in icu's and general wards is less than a quarter of what it was 5 months ago, so why lock down now ? Apparently the average age of those infected has dropped sharply so maybe younger people are (mostly) in a better position to fight it and dont need hospitalisation ? One thing I do know is that economically it will take decades for our country to come out of this mess, and the more we lockdown, the harder it will be to get back on track

If Ireland had gone early and shut off NI/ and other borders the virus could have been pretty much eradicated. What intrigues me is how countries like Greece and New Zealand managed to survive for so long despite being heavily reliant on the outside world to function properly.

The numbers in ICU's now are incidental really, we have at least another 6 months of infection spread if we don't get a handle on the virus. Younger people may get infected, but you are relying on them staying away from the elderly/vulnerable, I can't comment for ROI but that is not happening here, where in some regions ICU wards are already getting close to capacity. Our doctors and nurses must be mentally and physically exhausted.

The economic consequences of any once in a lifetime event like this are dire, it took two decades to get over WWII.

[goonertux]

Putting the football rivalries to one side, what the Govt have ruled on Greater Manchester is just a disgrace. This is gonna be repeated around the country. Hopefully, the one good thing to come from it will be a reawakening by the electorate of the poison of this current Government. Nothing short of liars and criminals. Multi-million contracts given to ‘companies’ that don’t even have premises, 12 billion (!) on a so-called ‘world leading’ track and trace system, Serco being given more and more despite failing at nearly everything they run. The list goes on and on. They must be held to account. The country cannot survive another 4 years of corruption and lies.

[goonersid]

Putting the football rivalries to one side, what the Govt have ruled on Greater Manchester is just a disgrace. This is gonna be repeated around the country. Hopefully, the one good thing to come from it will be a reawakening by the electorate of the poison of this current Government. Nothing short of liars and criminals. Multi-million contracts given to ‘companies’ that don’t even have premises, 12 billion (!) on a so-called ‘world leading’ track and trace system, Serco being given more and more despite failing at nearly everything they run. The list goes on and on. They must be held to account. The country cannot survive another 4 years of corruption and lies.

Really? I would argue that Andy Burnham has been a disgrace!
Basically trying to extort more money from the government in return for abiding by restrictions.
As much as I don’t agree with lockdowns, this modern day Derek Hatton, is simply playing politics during a crisis.

[nut flush gooner]

Putting the football rivalries to one side, what the Govt have ruled on Greater Manchester is just a disgrace. This is gonna be repeated around the country. Hopefully, the one good thing to come from it will be a reawakening by the electorate of the poison of this current Government. Nothing short of liars and criminals. Multi-million contracts given to ‘companies’ that don’t even have premises, 12 billion (!) on a so-called ‘world leading’ track and trace system, Serco being given more and more despite failing at nearly everything they run. The list goes on and on. They must be held to account. The country cannot survive another 4 years of corruption and lies.

Really? I would argue that Andy Burnham has been a disgrace!
Basically trying to extort more money from the government in return for abiding by restrictions.
As much as I don’t agree with lockdowns, this modern day Derek Hatton, is simply playing politics during a crisis.

The problem is the policy, asking people to accept £5.76 an hour then wait weeks for universal credit to come in isn't going to put food on the table is it. It’s a flaw in the whole system over anything else.

The more I think about it we need to keep furlough going until next summer, the Americans keep agreeing fiscal stimulus measures to prop up their economy. We need to do the same and deal with the costs after the pandemic has ended.

[goonertux]

Sid, he’s not playing politics, he’s looking after the people he’s responsible for. Unlike our Govt who are more interested in lining the pockets of their ‘friends’ and donors.

[the playing mantis]

he is playing politics. those who hate the tories with out rational thought will claim hes not. your more transparent than grandmas britches tux!

hes made it into a north south tory/labour thing at risk of his electorates health. can he be done for manslaughter i wonder? the south isnt being locked down as infection rates are not at northern levels...pretty simple really.

the reasons for that are debatable, but fairly obvious to anyone whos been around the country in different areas, such is my dubious pleasure...students have also contributed, but adherence to basic rules/guidance or lack of is the main driver.

essex was made tier 2 as a sop to the north despite having comparatively tiny rates compared to the north.

burnham is flip flopping he wants everyone to suffer by a national lockdown and not have the north picked on because the populace wont adhere to the rules despite many areas not needing to be lockdown given the low rates. makes no sense. why is manchester special?

when national lockdown was made people bleated about a more targeted nuanced approach. now thats happening they are moaning about that too, but only in those impacted areas...i wonder if burnham would make stand if it were somewhere in the south moving to tier 3??

the government cannot win whatever they do and every action is being politicised by their opposition parties/supporters.

the gov fucked up again by not nipping this in the bud and just imposing tier 3 a week ago saying you will get what has been agreed by the chancellors scheme, end of. this would have been a non story had they done that, as nicola is now saying she will in scotland if local areas stand against her.

[nut flush gooner]

he is playing politics. those who hate the tories with out rational thought will claim hes not. your more transparent than grandmas britches tux!

hes made it into a north south tory/labour thing at risk of his electorates health. can he be done for manslaughter i wonder? the south isnt being locked down as infection rates are not at northern levels...pretty simple really.

the reasons for that are debatable, but fairly obvious to anyone whos been around the country in different areas, such is my dubious pleasure...students have also contributed, but adherence to basic rules/guidance or lack of is the main driver.

essex was made tier 2 as a sop to the north despite having comparatively tiny rates compared to the north.

burnham is flip flopping he wants everyone to suffer by a national lockdown and not have the north picked on because the populace wont adhere to the rules despite many areas not needing to be lockdown given the low rates. makes no sense. why is manchester special?

when national lockdown was made people bleated about a more targeted nuanced approach. now thats happening they are moaning about that too, but only in those impacted areas...i wonder if burnham would make stand if it were somewhere in the south moving to tier 3??

the government cannot win whatever they do and every action is being politicised by their opposition parties/supporters.

the gov fucked up again by not nipping this in the bud and just imposing tier 3 a week ago saying you will get what has been agreed by the chancellors scheme, end of. this would have been a non story had they done that, as nicola is now saying she will in scotland if local areas stand against her.

It’s a much scientific as political problem. Infection rates in the South were much lower than the North throughout the summer despite all the protests. But it was much warmer in the South, versus cold and generally wet up North especially in the North West. So the base for infection spread in the cities was much higher up there. Covid doesn’t like UV rays that kill the virus in minutes on a warm sunny day.

Targeted lockdowns only work if you literally seal off one region from the next. They did it in Wuhan and with great severity in Melbourne too. The impression I get is the Aussies mandated a lot of measures and the govt were strict in enforcement. Our Tier system is like a leaking sieve, it might suppress infection spread and slow the increase in daily deaths but they still are going up.

The politics comes into play because the compensation amounts for keeping people on low incomes at home are much lower than furlough was. As I already said, good luck in getting a Universal Credit claim through in a matter of days. Don't forget there are large companies like our illustrious neighbours the spuds that took a concessionary loan of £150m from the govt only to splurge it on several players and pay a part of monkey boys wages. That is wrong.

I walked into a Sainsbury's local yesterday in North London saw non mask compliance by two people, one of which I approached and questioned, he could barely speak a word of English but he knew what I was saying, Walked round sheepishly and out of the shop. This is the problem, the shops do not have the power to enforce and staff on min wage are being threatened by customers. It all boils down to weak management of the situation from the government. If people thought they were likely to get fined for non compliance they wouldn’t blatantly disregard the protocols. The same applies for social distancing, even on this thread we’ve seen someone say fuck the rest of you I am doing what I like at christmas.

Burnham was right to stick up for the people of Manchester, call it political or whatever you want. He was spot on in his stance and the govt are playing a game of poker as much as he was.

[goonersid]

Sid, he’s not playing politics, he’s looking after the people he’s responsible for. Unlike our Govt who are more interested in lining the pockets of their ‘friends’ and donors.

Goonertux , he’s a left wing scouse anti-establishment anarchist.
Who will take any opposing view to govt,
he resisted level 3 restrictions, demanding more cash to help support the area, yet he supports a full national lockdown, which would inflict hardship on areas which have low infection rates and no need to lockdown.
He is just a mouthy northern c u n t!