CoronaVirus Latest

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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augie
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Re: CoronaVirus Latest

Post by augie »

I absolutely agree that it is too early for football to return - I think that it is probably too early for most of europe to be back playing, but especially in england where it seems (from the outside looking in) that a blaise irresponsible attitude seems to be everywhere.
I also agree that it makes no sense for schools to return before the next school year starts - for me that is a case of the risk outweighing the benefits even though the experts are now saying that children are not big carriers of the virus :roll: :roll:

Lets also talk about what seems to be accepted facts around the world - apparently (unless people cough or sneeze on you) you need to be in close contact with someone for a minimum of 15 minutes to be at risk. It is also accepted by everyone that the risk of catching the virus is significantly higher indoors than it is outside (though that would be obvious without medical qualifications). Would you not accept then that football is at the very least, no more of a risk than going for a meal or a drink, and significantly less risky than travelling on public transport ? Apparently a breakdown was done on the bundesliga games at the weekend, and for the most part no player was in close contact with another player for more than 90 seconds at a time (that is a stat breakdown by our medical service and they are taking their time to open up sport here and cant be accused of being reckless). As I said, I'm not advocating the return of football NOW, but I do feel that it is no more risky than other aspects of life, and given the likelihood of a long wait for a cure, I dont feel shutting the door on sports returning is correct - I'm not saying that it should be a huge factor either, but it also should be recognised that a lack of taxes being paid by sports people and staff in the food and alcohol sector, will ultimately have a serious knock on effect on NHS funding

Lastly, I dont have contempt for the virus - I recognise it for what it is and for the suffering it has brought to many people and families, and it is tragic. However I stand by my comment that BY FAR the majority of deaths have been in the elderly and pre existing conditions category, and for the majority of people it is a bad flu, and in some cases it isnt even that. People have in the past contracted pneumonia (sp :oops: ) and suffered with it for a long time afterwards, so this virus isnt alone in that regard

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rodders999
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Re: CoronaVirus Latest

Post by rodders999 »

I don't buy into the too soon narrative at all. The league won't be starting up for at least 4 weeks so it's not like there will be games in the morning. Training will begin next Tuesday in small groups with lots of precautions in place and will continue that way before things start ramping up in mid June. I reckon we're looking at the weekend of 21st or 28th for the resumption of fixtures and we should be in a much much better place by then everywhere in society.

nut flush gooner
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Re: CoronaVirus Latest

Post by nut flush gooner »

augie wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 10:05 am
I absolutely agree that it is too early for football to return - I think that it is probably too early for most of europe to be back playing, but especially in england where it seems (from the outside looking in) that a blaise irresponsible attitude seems to be everywhere.
I also agree that it makes no sense for schools to return before the next school year starts - for me that is a case of the risk outweighing the benefits even though the experts are now saying that children are not big carriers of the virus :roll: :roll:

Lets also talk about what seems to be accepted facts around the world - apparently (unless people cough or sneeze on you) you need to be in close contact with someone for a minimum of 15 minutes to be at risk. It is also accepted by everyone that the risk of catching the virus is significantly higher indoors than it is outside (though that would be obvious without medical qualifications). Would you not accept then that football is at the very least, no more of a risk than going for a meal or a drink, and significantly less risky than travelling on public transport ? Apparently a breakdown was done on the bundesliga games at the weekend, and for the most part no player was in close contact with another player for more than 90 seconds at a time (that is a stat breakdown by our medical service and they are taking their time to open up sport here and cant be accused of being reckless). As I said, I'm not advocating the return of football NOW, but I do feel that it is no more risky than other aspects of life, and given the likelihood of a long wait for a cure, I dont feel shutting the door on sports returning is correct - I'm not saying that it should be a huge factor either, but it also should be recognised that a lack of taxes being paid by sports people and staff in the food and alcohol sector, will ultimately have a serious knock on effect on NHS funding

Lastly, I dont have contempt for the virus - I recognise it for what it is and for the suffering it has brought to many people and families, and it is tragic. However I stand by my comment that BY FAR the majority of deaths have been in the elderly and pre existing conditions category, and for the majority of people it is a bad flu, and in some cases it isnt even that. People have in the past contracted pneumonia (sp :oops: ) and suffered with it for a long time afterwards, so this virus isnt alone in that regard
For me, the best thing to do with the PL is to cancel this season. If we try to finish it then we will literally have the problem of a few weeks off then straight into the next season, with the European Championships being at the end of it. Let's see how things are in June then start to plan for a normal start in August assuming the pandemic is under control.

In terms of risk, and as a result of the research I have done I have decided that a supermarket is just about the worst place you can be apart from maybe a crowded pub or nightclub.

The theory about the volume of respiratory droplets you would need to take on and the period of time you would need to be exposed to someone with COVID is open to debate. But what differentiates this disease to something like the flu is asymptomatic carriers and the ability of the virus to survive on hard surfaces for up to three days.

But in general yes, an indoor air conditioned environment would probably be much more high risk than an open air sports event. Right now, personally I would feel much more comfortable playing tennis or golf than football and I can see why some footballers are concerned. Especially if they have family that are in at-risk categories.

Just to add to that link I posted, the thing that I get annoyed about is how a private firm can guarantee 40,000 tests at short notice when it took our government weeks to get up to that level. Just shows again how footballers live in a different world. I guess at least it doesn't affect the NHS capacity to test the rest of us.

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Nos89
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Re: CoronaVirus Latest

Post by Nos89 »

I have wanted the PL season to finish and that way we can satisfactorily get a decent looking league table. However, given the nature of the pandemic in the UK and non-existent lockdown, the season should be declared over with current league positions in situ. The top 2 of championship should be promoted inflating the league to 22 clubs.

The FA Cup should be allowed to continue as there are only 8 teams involved and 7 matches to be played. It can be completed in a week like a pre-season tournament, quarter-finals on a Saturday in four locations, semi-final on a Wednesday at Wembley , final on a Sunday at Wembley.

The 20/21 season should start in September, ending in June.

As for the European competitions, I don't think they should be allowed to go ahead until the 2021/22 season because of the risk of transferring it between borders, or until there is a bona fide vaccine available.

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StuartL
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Re: CoronaVirus Latest

Post by StuartL »

rodders999 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 7:23 pm
Fuck the elephant man. Neither yourself or your hairdresser will be the subject of multiple tests per week before you rock up for a hair cut that’s the biggest difference.

Also barbers are indoors where the risk again is higher than being outside playing sport.

The risk of becoming infected while resuming the league will be minimal, where’s your cajones now you fat headed deformed C.UNT.
Hey Rodders, that’s a bit harsh - my deformity is usually under wraps. (Not going to deny the fat headed Cu.nt part )

I don’t know about you but my hairdresser ( my partner) only drops sweat, and spits in my direction on special occasions (Or do you pay for extra service )

Jock Gooner
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Re: CoronaVirus Latest

Post by Jock Gooner »

augie wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 8:43 am
nut flush gooner wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 8:09 am
augie wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 7:38 am
IW8Goalmachine wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 8:05 pm
augie wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 7:59 pm





This is only a ploy to get the season abandoned with his team only outside the bottom 3 on goal difference - would love to see them and the shammers relegated cos of their shameful attempts at self preservation and fake concerns :censored: :censored: :censored:
he has a six month old son with breathing problems and has also said if he doesn't get paid then so be it.



And for these mega wealthy players it is easy to say that cos it is small change for him

Reality is, as rodders says, that these players will be tested to the n'th degree, and are at more risk out and about their every days lives, than he would be playing football. It is an established/accepted opinion across the world, that this virus could be with us for years and that vaccinations have traditionally taken a minimum of 3-4 years to create - is football (and other aspects of life) meant to go on lockdown until that vaccine arrives ? Top doctors have said that this will be a part of our lives for years and that we need to learn to live with it.
I'm always curious how they come up with the stats that blacks and minority races are more susceptible to the virus - are they basing this purely on numbers, or are there other factors in play like the area they live in or the people that they come in contact with etc ?
Yes if it compromises our ability to save lives

With regards to the BAME death rates, it's widely accepted a lot of people of ethnic origin that migrate to northern climbs are deficient in vitamin D. This hasn't been widely reported yet, but low levels of Vitamin D don't bode well for clinical outcomes when it comes to COVID19. Add Diabetes etc into the mix and that explains a lot.



Are you serious ?? You actually believe that ?? :shock: :shock: Life should be put on indefinite hold for a vaccine that might never come ?? That's not living buddy - with the greatest of respect to those that have died and their families, I dont think that anyone would want to live long term in a world like that. I certainly wouldnt want to live long term in a world where there is no football, where I cant fly anywhere on holidays, where I cant go out to a restaurant, and where I cant go to the pub (and I dont even drink) - I have always said that if I get seriously sick and will have no quality of life then I would want euthanasia cos life has to have some quality and enjoyment to it, but what you are proposing is bare existance. Again I dont mean to be disrespectful or flippant to anyone who has lost a loved one through this virus cos it is heartbreaking, but I also think that it should be recognised that for the vast majority of people who catch this virus, it is no worse than a bad flu, and I dont see how locking down the world for years/indefinitley can be acceptable

Completely agree with your assessment of what life would be like if you take away all the good stuff. They are the reasons why we bother our arses to go to work in the first place.

As I recall the virus is supposed to be mild for 80% of people. Of the 20% who have a rougher time some will require hospitalisation to receive a bit of tlc and oxygen, a small percentage will end up in ICU. The numbers predominantly point to this thing finishing off the elderly who have underlying health conditions. That may sound harsh but it is true. Over here the govt don't give two fucks about any of us, as I've said before and I'll say again, this is all about avoiding the NHS collapsing under a tory administration as the public would never forgive them.

Bet Neil Ferguson has got his fingers crossed about his prediction because if he turns out to have got it wrong (again) there's going to be a queue of people wanting to have a chat with him. The 500k deaths model if we did nothing means just that - do absolutely nothing. But there is always some resonse to a problem and so we wash our hands many times a day and we social distance from each other and that has a significant effect on the 500k do nothing figure. We could have properly locked down the elderly and at risk / care homes and made a decent job of that but we went for a half cocked lockdown that allowed careworkers who work at multiple sites to spread the virus freely among those most at risk.

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rodders999
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Re: CoronaVirus Latest

Post by rodders999 »

StuartL wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 1:28 pm
rodders999 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 7:23 pm
Fuck the elephant man. Neither yourself or your hairdresser will be the subject of multiple tests per week before you rock up for a hair cut that’s the biggest difference.

Also barbers are indoors where the risk again is higher than being outside playing sport.

The risk of becoming infected while resuming the league will be minimal, where’s your cajones now you fat headed deformed C.UNT.
Hey Rodders, that’s a bit harsh - my deformity is usually under wraps. (Not going to deny the fat headed Cu.nt part )

I don’t know about you but my hairdresser ( my partner) only drops sweat, and spits in my direction on special occasions (Or do you pay for extra service )

If you hit the right hair salon you're in for a major treat that's for sure. A smoking hot hairdresser caressing your mane, her soft touch against your head as the scissors chops and snips away at your flowing locks. She leans in from behind to trim your fringe and you're rewarded with the warm press of her ample bosom against the back of your neck. She moves to the side and you manage to glimpse the inside of her thigh as she stands on her tiptoes to continue on with her sensual seduction. Your heart flutters, your pecker twitches and you pray that this moment will never end. You glance at the mirror and for a split second your eyes meet, she smiles and you blush, more twitching, there's no way back now. A tent has firmly been pitched beneath the hair gown the outline of which she clearly notices. She smiles once again, leans in and whispers..........



*** the rest of this story is behind a paywall, please Pm for further details 8)

nut flush gooner
Posts: 3113
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Re: CoronaVirus Latest

Post by nut flush gooner »

Jock Gooner wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 2:53 pm
augie wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 8:43 am
nut flush gooner wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 8:09 am
augie wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 7:38 am
IW8Goalmachine wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 8:05 pm


he has a six month old son with breathing problems and has also said if he doesn't get paid then so be it.



And for these mega wealthy players it is easy to say that cos it is small change for him

Reality is, as rodders says, that these players will be tested to the n'th degree, and are at more risk out and about their every days lives, than he would be playing football. It is an established/accepted opinion across the world, that this virus could be with us for years and that vaccinations have traditionally taken a minimum of 3-4 years to create - is football (and other aspects of life) meant to go on lockdown until that vaccine arrives ? Top doctors have said that this will be a part of our lives for years and that we need to learn to live with it.
I'm always curious how they come up with the stats that blacks and minority races are more susceptible to the virus - are they basing this purely on numbers, or are there other factors in play like the area they live in or the people that they come in contact with etc ?
Yes if it compromises our ability to save lives

With regards to the BAME death rates, it's widely accepted a lot of people of ethnic origin that migrate to northern climbs are deficient in vitamin D. This hasn't been widely reported yet, but low levels of Vitamin D don't bode well for clinical outcomes when it comes to COVID19. Add Diabetes etc into the mix and that explains a lot.



Are you serious ?? You actually believe that ?? :shock: :shock: Life should be put on indefinite hold for a vaccine that might never come ?? That's not living buddy - with the greatest of respect to those that have died and their families, I dont think that anyone would want to live long term in a world like that. I certainly wouldnt want to live long term in a world where there is no football, where I cant fly anywhere on holidays, where I cant go out to a restaurant, and where I cant go to the pub (and I dont even drink) - I have always said that if I get seriously sick and will have no quality of life then I would want euthanasia cos life has to have some quality and enjoyment to it, but what you are proposing is bare existance. Again I dont mean to be disrespectful or flippant to anyone who has lost a loved one through this virus cos it is heartbreaking, but I also think that it should be recognised that for the vast majority of people who catch this virus, it is no worse than a bad flu, and I dont see how locking down the world for years/indefinitley can be acceptable

Completely agree with your assessment of what life would be like if you take away all the good stuff. They are the reasons why we bother our arses to go to work in the first place.

As I recall the virus is supposed to be mild for 80% of people. Of the 20% who have a rougher time some will require hospitalisation to receive a bit of tlc and oxygen, a small percentage will end up in ICU. The numbers predominantly point to this thing finishing off the elderly who have underlying health conditions. That may sound harsh but it is true. Over here the govt don't give two fucks about any of us, as I've said before and I'll say again, this is all about avoiding the NHS collapsing under a tory administration as the public would never forgive them.

Bet Neil Ferguson has got his fingers crossed about his prediction because if he turns out to have got it wrong (again) there's going to be a queue of people wanting to have a chat with him. The 500k deaths model if we did nothing means just that - do absolutely nothing. But there is always some resonse to a problem and so we wash our hands many times a day and we social distance from each other and that has a significant effect on the 500k do nothing figure. We could have properly locked down the elderly and at risk / care homes and made a decent job of that but we went for a half cocked lockdown that allowed careworkers who work at multiple sites to spread the virus freely among those most at risk.
I agree, but we should have gone further than that and locked down the wider population on March 7th when SAGE told the government to get their act together. It's worked in New Zealand and Greece. Had we done that and got our tracing act together (ie started planning in January and Feb) our death toll would have been similar to Germanys no doubt.

I think really it boils down to what stance you have, are you prepared to see 500,000 or more wiped off the face of the earth or less than 100,000 with the economic turmoil. Remember these people are our mums/dads, grandparents uncles and aunties plus those who are younger and have existing medical conditions. Boris very nearly went for herd immunity remember.

When the enquiries start into what exactly went wrong I think the population will see a government that didn't take the threat seriously until it was too late and made some catastrophic errors in regards to sending infected people back to care homes.

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DB10GOONER
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Re: CoronaVirus Latest

Post by DB10GOONER »

rodders999 wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 3:16 pm
StuartL wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 1:28 pm
rodders999 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 7:23 pm
Fuck the elephant man. Neither yourself or your hairdresser will be the subject of multiple tests per week before you rock up for a hair cut that’s the biggest difference.

Also barbers are indoors where the risk again is higher than being outside playing sport.

The risk of becoming infected while resuming the league will be minimal, where’s your cajones now you fat headed deformed C.UNT.
Hey Rodders, that’s a bit harsh - my deformity is usually under wraps. (Not going to deny the fat headed Cu.nt part )

I don’t know about you but my hairdresser ( my partner) only drops sweat, and spits in my direction on special occasions (Or do you pay for extra service )

If you hit the right hair salon you're in for a major treat that's for sure. A smoking hot hairdresser caressing your mane, her soft touch against your head as the scissors chops and snips away at your flowing locks. She leans in from behind to trim your fringe and you're rewarded with the warm press of her ample bosom against the back of your neck. She moves to the side and you manage to glimpse the inside of her thigh as she stands on her tiptoes to continue on with her sensual seduction. Your heart flutters, your pecker twitches and you pray that this moment will never end. You glance at the mirror and for a split second your eyes meet, she smiles and you blush, more twitching, there's no way back now. A tent has firmly been pitched beneath the hair gown the outline of which she clearly notices. She smiles once again, leans in and whispers..........



*** the rest of this story is behind a paywall, please Pm for further details 8)
:lol: :lol:

Let's just say you put in your paywall a fraction too late and I for one won't need to pm you to attain a happy ending. :D

Also I don't know how in sweet fuck I'm ever going to be able to look at my barber Clive again.... :shock:

Gunner Rob
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Re: CoronaVirus Latest

Post by Gunner Rob »

Morning all - first time back on here for me since lockdown.

haven't really missed football too much surprisingly. and hopefully one good thing that might come out of all this is that football in general gets a bit of a reset. The days of footballers being paid such obscene wages hopefully now over.

I had a look to see what I posted just before football shut down and I still stand by that

1) the Premier League season should be completed. Why not ? In all likelihood next season will be far from normal as well so we might as well get the current one done. If next season starts late then so be it.

2) good to see Euro 2020 cancelled. now I think things should go further - i would cancel all European and International matches for the foreseeable future. what with quarantine restrictions etc it is just not worth the bother.

we have all got to get used to a "new normal" which isn't going to be great.
I am really not sure how packed stadiums are going to work for a very long time. a vaccine is no certainty of happening.
Radical solutions might be needed in time, like allowing a few thousand to attend a match under social distancing rules.

some sports are going to fare better than others - Horse Racing will be the first one back and I am personally looking forward to that.
I think golf/snooker will be ok because there is not that much crowd noise at those events anyway. football will struggle.

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rodders999
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Re: CoronaVirus Latest

Post by rodders999 »

Ceballos has told Spanish TV that every Arsenal player has tested negative after the first batch of tests when they resumed training. He also said the league is penciled in to start on the 20th June. 4 more weeks....... :barscarf:

Jock Gooner
Posts: 2594
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:53 am

Re: CoronaVirus Latest

Post by Jock Gooner »

nut flush gooner wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 4:52 pm
Jock Gooner wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 2:53 pm
augie wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 8:43 am
nut flush gooner wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 8:09 am
augie wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 7:38 am





And for these mega wealthy players it is easy to say that cos it is small change for him

Reality is, as rodders says, that these players will be tested to the n'th degree, and are at more risk out and about their every days lives, than he would be playing football. It is an established/accepted opinion across the world, that this virus could be with us for years and that vaccinations have traditionally taken a minimum of 3-4 years to create - is football (and other aspects of life) meant to go on lockdown until that vaccine arrives ? Top doctors have said that this will be a part of our lives for years and that we need to learn to live with it.
I'm always curious how they come up with the stats that blacks and minority races are more susceptible to the virus - are they basing this purely on numbers, or are there other factors in play like the area they live in or the people that they come in contact with etc ?
Yes if it compromises our ability to save lives

With regards to the BAME death rates, it's widely accepted a lot of people of ethnic origin that migrate to northern climbs are deficient in vitamin D. This hasn't been widely reported yet, but low levels of Vitamin D don't bode well for clinical outcomes when it comes to COVID19. Add Diabetes etc into the mix and that explains a lot.



Are you serious ?? You actually believe that ?? :shock: :shock: Life should be put on indefinite hold for a vaccine that might never come ?? That's not living buddy - with the greatest of respect to those that have died and their families, I dont think that anyone would want to live long term in a world like that. I certainly wouldnt want to live long term in a world where there is no football, where I cant fly anywhere on holidays, where I cant go out to a restaurant, and where I cant go to the pub (and I dont even drink) - I have always said that if I get seriously sick and will have no quality of life then I would want euthanasia cos life has to have some quality and enjoyment to it, but what you are proposing is bare existance. Again I dont mean to be disrespectful or flippant to anyone who has lost a loved one through this virus cos it is heartbreaking, but I also think that it should be recognised that for the vast majority of people who catch this virus, it is no worse than a bad flu, and I dont see how locking down the world for years/indefinitley can be acceptable

Completely agree with your assessment of what life would be like if you take away all the good stuff. They are the reasons why we bother our arses to go to work in the first place.

As I recall the virus is supposed to be mild for 80% of people. Of the 20% who have a rougher time some will require hospitalisation to receive a bit of tlc and oxygen, a small percentage will end up in ICU. The numbers predominantly point to this thing finishing off the elderly who have underlying health conditions. That may sound harsh but it is true. Over here the govt don't give two fucks about any of us, as I've said before and I'll say again, this is all about avoiding the NHS collapsing under a tory administration as the public would never forgive them.

Bet Neil Ferguson has got his fingers crossed about his prediction because if he turns out to have got it wrong (again) there's going to be a queue of people wanting to have a chat with him. The 500k deaths model if we did nothing means just that - do absolutely nothing. But there is always some resonse to a problem and so we wash our hands many times a day and we social distance from each other and that has a significant effect on the 500k do nothing figure. We could have properly locked down the elderly and at risk / care homes and made a decent job of that but we went for a half cocked lockdown that allowed careworkers who work at multiple sites to spread the virus freely among those most at risk.
I agree, but we should have gone further than that and locked down the wider population on March 7th when SAGE told the government to get their act together. It's worked in New Zealand and Greece. Had we done that and got our tracing act together (ie started planning in January and Feb) our death toll would have been similar to Germanys no doubt.

I think really it boils down to what stance you have, are you prepared to see 500,000 or more wiped off the face of the earth or less than 100,000 with the economic turmoil. Remember these people are our mums/dads, grandparents uncles and aunties plus those who are younger and have existing medical conditions. Boris very nearly went for herd immunity remember.

When the enquiries start into what exactly went wrong I think the population will see a government that didn't take the threat seriously until it was too late and made some catastrophic errors in regards to sending infected people back to care homes.


I think when we look back you will see a government who were trying to balance the 80% will be fine against the NHS being over run against civil liberties against trashing the economy. Then against all of that you've suddenly got Prof Never Got a Prediction Right Ever telling them that everyfucker will die if they don't lockdown. The question isn't why did they listen to him, it's why the fuck after all his previous balls ups was he ever in a position to be allowed to contribute. I suspect we could have locked down 3 weeks before Germany and we would still have had more deaths than them. Age and obesity are both major factors and I have no doubt we will have far far more of the latter than the Germans. Can anyone really put a figure on lives saved in a pandemic when in reality they know next to bugger all about the virus. It's a rather sweeping statement to point the finger and claim that individuals are costing lives but I suppose it fits the narrative.

There seems to be an easy political row brewing about the whole track and trace thing at the moment and no doubt somebody will be made the villain....obviously not a politician. How are we supposed to believe that the government can run a track and trace programme when they still can't even get the death figures together correctly at the weekend. I don't think anyone was really on top of it in January as things were still in the investigation stage at that point not a recognition stage so a touch unrealistic imo. The Far East are much better geared up towards this shit because of SARS and bird/swine flu outbreaks which they took seriously and, while Prof Never Got a Prediction Right Ever wasn't exactly spot on with his numbers, countries out there put plans in place for the next outbreak. Being next door to China probably helps focus the mind.

I hear what you say about relatives and that is very true. The problem is that if it turns out that we are in a recession the likes of which has never been seen before then what price do we pay to to potentially throw away the future of our kids. Ours and our parents generation have already put a pretty serious dent in the works with global warming so to saddle our kids with a crippling debt too seems like turning the screw a bit. My dad is 80 and my kids are just leaving university as we speak. I'm afraid I want a decent future for my kids and we've had this discussion in the family as I'm sure many others have. For what it's worth the old man only threatened to cut me out of his will.....I think.

Remember one of the Oxford models which got ridiculed for basing an outcome on covid having been here a month earlier than officially recognised i.e. arrived in December rather than end January. It took a while to come out but we eventually got back to numerous cases in France in December and there are athletes from the Wuhan Military games in October who talk about severe flu like illnesses. Whether the authorities have been behind the curve on the origin of the virus or were trying to cover it up or are just plain stupid is anyone's guess.

nut flush gooner
Posts: 3113
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:23 am

Re: CoronaVirus Latest

Post by nut flush gooner »

Jock Gooner wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 2:10 pm
nut flush gooner wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 4:52 pm
Jock Gooner wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 2:53 pm
augie wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 8:43 am
nut flush gooner wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 8:09 am


Yes if it compromises our ability to save lives

With regards to the BAME death rates, it's widely accepted a lot of people of ethnic origin that migrate to northern climbs are deficient in vitamin D. This hasn't been widely reported yet, but low levels of Vitamin D don't bode well for clinical outcomes when it comes to COVID19. Add Diabetes etc into the mix and that explains a lot.



Are you serious ?? You actually believe that ?? :shock: :shock: Life should be put on indefinite hold for a vaccine that might never come ?? That's not living buddy - with the greatest of respect to those that have died and their families, I dont think that anyone would want to live long term in a world like that. I certainly wouldnt want to live long term in a world where there is no football, where I cant fly anywhere on holidays, where I cant go out to a restaurant, and where I cant go to the pub (and I dont even drink) - I have always said that if I get seriously sick and will have no quality of life then I would want euthanasia cos life has to have some quality and enjoyment to it, but what you are proposing is bare existance. Again I dont mean to be disrespectful or flippant to anyone who has lost a loved one through this virus cos it is heartbreaking, but I also think that it should be recognised that for the vast majority of people who catch this virus, it is no worse than a bad flu, and I dont see how locking down the world for years/indefinitley can be acceptable

Completely agree with your assessment of what life would be like if you take away all the good stuff. They are the reasons why we bother our arses to go to work in the first place.

As I recall the virus is supposed to be mild for 80% of people. Of the 20% who have a rougher time some will require hospitalisation to receive a bit of tlc and oxygen, a small percentage will end up in ICU. The numbers predominantly point to this thing finishing off the elderly who have underlying health conditions. That may sound harsh but it is true. Over here the govt don't give two fucks about any of us, as I've said before and I'll say again, this is all about avoiding the NHS collapsing under a tory administration as the public would never forgive them.

Bet Neil Ferguson has got his fingers crossed about his prediction because if he turns out to have got it wrong (again) there's going to be a queue of people wanting to have a chat with him. The 500k deaths model if we did nothing means just that - do absolutely nothing. But there is always some resonse to a problem and so we wash our hands many times a day and we social distance from each other and that has a significant effect on the 500k do nothing figure. We could have properly locked down the elderly and at risk / care homes and made a decent job of that but we went for a half cocked lockdown that allowed careworkers who work at multiple sites to spread the virus freely among those most at risk.
I agree, but we should have gone further than that and locked down the wider population on March 7th when SAGE told the government to get their act together. It's worked in New Zealand and Greece. Had we done that and got our tracing act together (ie started planning in January and Feb) our death toll would have been similar to Germanys no doubt.

I think really it boils down to what stance you have, are you prepared to see 500,000 or more wiped off the face of the earth or less than 100,000 with the economic turmoil. Remember these people are our mums/dads, grandparents uncles and aunties plus those who are younger and have existing medical conditions. Boris very nearly went for herd immunity remember.

When the enquiries start into what exactly went wrong I think the population will see a government that didn't take the threat seriously until it was too late and made some catastrophic errors in regards to sending infected people back to care homes.


I think when we look back you will see a government who were trying to balance the 80% will be fine against the NHS being over run against civil liberties against trashing the economy. Then against all of that you've suddenly got Prof Never Got a Prediction Right Ever telling them that everyfucker will die if they don't lockdown. The question isn't why did they listen to him, it's why the fuck after all his previous balls ups was he ever in a position to be allowed to contribute. I suspect we could have locked down 3 weeks before Germany and we would still have had more deaths than them. Age and obesity are both major factors and I have no doubt we will have far far more of the latter than the Germans. Can anyone really put a figure on lives saved in a pandemic when in reality they know next to bugger all about the virus. It's a rather sweeping statement to point the finger and claim that individuals are costing lives but I suppose it fits the narrative.

There seems to be an easy political row brewing about the whole track and trace thing at the moment and no doubt somebody will be made the villain....obviously not a politician. How are we supposed to believe that the government can run a track and trace programme when they still can't even get the death figures together correctly at the weekend. I don't think anyone was really on top of it in January as things were still in the investigation stage at that point not a recognition stage so a touch unrealistic imo. The Far East are much better geared up towards this shit because of SARS and bird/swine flu outbreaks which they took seriously and, while Prof Never Got a Prediction Right Ever wasn't exactly spot on with his numbers, countries out there put plans in place for the next outbreak. Being next door to China probably helps focus the mind.

I hear what you say about relatives and that is very true. The problem is that if it turns out that we are in a recession the likes of which has never been seen before then what price do we pay to to potentially throw away the future of our kids. Ours and our parents generation have already put a pretty serious dent in the works with global warming so to saddle our kids with a crippling debt too seems like turning the screw a bit. My dad is 80 and my kids are just leaving university as we speak. I'm afraid I want a decent future for my kids and we've had this discussion in the family as I'm sure many others have. For what it's worth the old man only threatened to cut me out of his will.....I think.

Remember one of the Oxford models which got ridiculed for basing an outcome on covid having been here a month earlier than officially recognised i.e. arrived in December rather than end January. It took a while to come out but we eventually got back to numerous cases in France in December and there are athletes from the Wuhan Military games in October who talk about severe flu like illnesses. Whether the authorities have been behind the curve on the origin of the virus or were trying to cover it up or are just plain stupid is anyone's guess.
One country I look at when I hear people saying we shouldn't crash the economy and allow herd immunity to do its thing in Sweden. Until a few weeks back the so-called "experts" were lauding Sweden with it's liberal attitudes to social distancing and the general policy of not closing down the economy whilst its neighbours Finland and Denmark had lockdowns similar to us. The death rate per mill in Sweden is 360, Finland is 55 and Denmark is 97. Lockdown clearly stops more people being killed.

Germans are fat, make no bones about it. I have been there twice (Munich and Frankfurt) and based on what I see in their traditional restaurants there's no reason to think they would be any more healthy than we are (dumplings and slabs of meat with gravy are standard). That's before we start looking at their beer consumption. In saying that obesity is a massive issue in this country, as are Vitamin D deficiencies which I think sooner or later will finally hit someone's desk in government. There are many respected medics on social media banging the Vitamin D drum. If you are deficient in Vit D/Overweight and get COVID it's a grim prospect.

You're 100% right in wanting an economy that will allow your kids to thrive rather than suffer, but I suspect the economy is going to crash anyway based on what other countries around the world are doing. In saying that it shouldn't be at the expense of the older generations. The problem with University attendance these days is everyone goes, back in the day it used to be a privilege rather than a right. So 30 years ago it wouldn't be an unfair statement to say most of the talented people in the country were graduates. I have recently come across young people in their 20s who left school after their A-Levels that are much more streetwise and business savvy, than a lot of graduates. Plus this isn't the first generation who have had it bad only to find an economy in a state when they left University. One of my mates graduated in 1991, he was unemployed for 9 months before accepting a job with the local council processing OAP bus passes, then he got a job in an HR dept of a local hospital. Today he is a Senior HR Manager in a hospital in Kettering. The problems your kids might face are nothing new IMO.

With regards to football, I said this before but trying to finish this season might just kick the problems the pandemic is causing into next season. Especially with fixture pile ups if we have a second wave.

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augie
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Re: CoronaVirus Latest

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The thing that always frustrates the shit out of me is when I hear or read the phrase "medical experts" - that to me is, in a lot of cases, a different way of saying "absolute b.ullshitter" :roll: With all these "experts" being wheeled out to give their assessment, have we seen even 2 of them have the same diagnosis or assessment ? It seems that every single one of these cnuts has a different opinion to the others, so it leads the question "how are all of these called experts" if they dont have the same views on this ? Surely only one of them can be right ?? :? :? Of course a lot of the problem here is the media pushing all these "experts" out into the public domain and creating confusion to the regular man and woman on the street who doesnt know who to believe :roll: :roll:

Re the university thing, it saddens me greatly to see how dumbed down society is nowadays - we employ some university girls to work part-time in the shop, and I swear to jesus SOME of them havent 2 brain cells to rub together :shock: Spelling can be an issue for them, but their lack of basic maths is appaling :oops: :oops: I had a discussion with a recently retired principal of our local secondary school in which I suggested to hear that grades are dumbed down and easier to get than in my day, and she didnt appreciate that opinion. She told me that how a school is assesed now is by how many pupils it gets into 3rd level colleges, it is by how many are equipped to stay the course and qualify - I was going to suggest that it is a lot easier to graduate too but I opted against it :lol:

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Bradywasking
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Re: CoronaVirus Latest

Post by Bradywasking »

augie wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 7:52 am
The thing that always frustrates the shit out of me is when I hear or read the phrase "medical experts" - that to me is, in a lot of cases, a different way of saying "absolute b.ullshitter" :roll: With all these "experts" being wheeled out to give their assessment, have we seen even 2 of them have the same diagnosis or assessment ? It seems that every single one of these cnuts has a different opinion to the others, so it leads the question "how are all of these called experts" if they dont have the same views on this ? Surely only one of them can be right ?? :? :? Of course a lot of the problem here is the media pushing all these "experts" out into the public domain and creating confusion to the regular man and woman on the street who doesnt know who to believe :roll: :roll:

Re the university thing, it saddens me greatly to see how dumbed down society is nowadays - we employ some university girls to work part-time in the shop, and I swear to jesus SOME of them havent 2 brain cells to rub together :shock: Spelling can be an issue for them, but their lack of basic maths is appaling :oops: :oops: I had a discussion with a recently retired principal of our local secondary school in which I suggested to hear that grades are dumbed down and easier to get than in my day, and she didnt appreciate that opinion. She told me that how a school is assesed now is by how many pupils it gets into 3rd level colleges, it is by how many are equipped to stay the course and qualify - I was going to suggest that it is a lot easier to graduate too but I opted against it :lol:
Would agree with you regarding the dumbing down of education standards in Ireland. I done my Leaving Cert in 1980 and I honestly think today's version is easier..Difference back then was people from working class, single parent( my father died when I was seventeen months old)families did not go onto third level education. Now third level is obligatory as a right of passage more than an education. The English language has been butchered by social media and the keyboard warriors who use it. Profound political statements that have to be read dozens of times to try decipher and make sense of. I gave up Facebook years ago , there isn't enough time in this life for it.

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