Soton A Thurs ko 6pm

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Perryashburtongroves
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Re: Soton A Thurs ko 6pm

Post by Perryashburtongroves »

rodders999 wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:58 pm
I know there’s a lot of people taking the piss over the parasol pictures but fuck me that was amateur hour as far as I’m concerned.

A junior fun runner who does the odd 5 mile jog at the weekend wouldn’t spend 70 minutes panned out in the blazing sunshine before taking off so what the fuck professional athletes were doing sitting there in the energy sapping heat was beyond me.

If I sit out in the sun for longer than an hour I normally nod off, granted I’d be after a half dozen cans but the point stands 8)
I'd have had more respect for them if they'd opened a few bottles of wine, got out the glasses and had a couple of drinks in the sunshine.

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g88ner
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Re: Soton A Thurs ko 6pm

Post by g88ner »

The game totally passed Pepe by but I do sympathise with him.

Clearly he needs to get more involved but all our play goes down the left and the right seems to be all but ignored so he’s feeding off scraps!

Also, Pepe needs a Saka/Tierney type full back Who drives forward down the wing. There’s very little coming from Bellerin so Pepe is not only starved of the ball but the defenders he’s up against rarely get overloaded so they can concentrate on shutting down Pepe.

It’s almost as if we’ve spent £72m on a forward then done all we can to limit his impact. Hopefully Soares is a better wing back for Pepe to work with.

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mcdowell42
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Re: Soton A Thurs ko 6pm

Post by mcdowell42 »

Arteta on whether Guendouzi's absence was linked to the incident at Brighton: “No. Whatever issue we have internally, I will resolve it in a private way. I explained that I cannot explain and that's it.”

Reports are emerging that Matteo told the club he would like to leave.

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SteveO 35
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Re: Soton A Thurs ko 6pm

Post by SteveO 35 »

mcdowell42 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:37 am
Arteta on whether Guendouzi's absence was linked to the incident at Brighton: “No. Whatever issue we have internally, I will resolve it in a private way. I explained that I cannot explain and that's it.”

Reports are emerging that Matteo told the club he would like to leave.
Hope so - anyone who doesn't want to be at the club can f+++ off. This lad's ego getting to levels not seen since Bendtner's departure. If he really thinks he's outgrown the club and is going to walk into a top side's starting XI he can think again. Will be playing in the Turkish league in the next 2-3 seasons unless he gets a grip

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Bradywasking
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Re: Soton A Thurs ko 6pm

Post by Bradywasking »

g88ner wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:12 am
The game totally passed Pepe by but I do sympathise with him.

Clearly he needs to get more involved but all our play goes down the left and the right seems to be all but ignored so he’s feeding off scraps!

Also, Pepe needs a Saka/Tierney type full back Who drives forward down the wing. There’s very little coming from Bellerin so Pepe is not only starved of the ball but the defenders he’s up against rarely get overloaded so they can concentrate on shutting down Pepe.

It’s almost as if we’ve spent £72m on a forward then done all we can to limit his impact. Hopefully Soares is a better wing back for Pepe to work with.
Didn't see the game yesterday but a friend who did made that exact point about Bellerin and Pepe.

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augie
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Re: Soton A Thurs ko 6pm

Post by augie »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:44 am
mcdowell42 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:37 am
Arteta on whether Guendouzi's absence was linked to the incident at Brighton: “No. Whatever issue we have internally, I will resolve it in a private way. I explained that I cannot explain and that's it.”

Reports are emerging that Matteo told the club he would like to leave.
Hope so - anyone who doesn't want to be at the club can f+++ off. This lad's ego getting to levels not seen since Bendtner's departure. If he really thinks he's outgrown the club and is going to walk into a top side's starting XI he can think again. Will be playing in the Turkish league in the next 2-3 seasons unless he gets a grip



Not having that Steve O - anytime guendouzi has played for us he has always put in maximum effort. He is far from the finished product, but bearing in mind that he has come from french second division, I think that he has done well thus far, and with the right manager to educate him he could be a star in the future.
It is too easy for some to isolate some issues and put it all on him - last season he was dropped for a guy that told the fans to fcuk off, and told the manager he wanted to leave, so he was entitled to be pissed imo. Why was xhaka not dropped for saying that he wanted out ? Southampton stripped hojberg of their captaincy when he said that he wanted out - they didnt drop him from the team or squad though :roll: It is double standards with arteta and I have long said that. This summer will see the departure of guendouzi and torreira and we will then be left with xhaka as a mainstay of our midfield, and boy do I look forward to listening to the moans when he is stolling around our midfield next season.

Arteta has shown himself to be anything but the great coach who can develop young players cos he continues to show that he has no patience with them - he would rather stick with older experienced players that he doesnt need to coach, and then he will be lauded by fans for getting them to run around a bit more than before :roll:

Btw, in the last few days some of the media talk is of some big clubs of europe are after him - wouldnt that be some endorsement of arteta's judgement ?

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augie
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Re: Soton A Thurs ko 6pm

Post by augie »

g88ner wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:12 am
The game totally passed Pepe by but I do sympathise with him.

Clearly he needs to get more involved but all our play goes down the left and the right seems to be all but ignored so he’s feeding off scraps!

Also, Pepe needs a Saka/Tierney type full back Who drives forward down the wing. There’s very little coming from Bellerin so Pepe is not only starved of the ball but the defenders he’s up against rarely get overloaded so they can concentrate on shutting down Pepe.

It’s almost as if we’ve spent £72m on a forward then done all we can to limit his impact. Hopefully Soares is a better wing back for Pepe to work with.



But the hapless willock was more involved in the game when he was brought on to replace him on the right wing :? He is a one trick pony that has been easily sussed out, and now that he doesnt know what else to do he is hiding imo

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GoonerMuzz
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Re: Soton A Thurs ko 6pm

Post by GoonerMuzz »

Did I completely miss something yesterday because Xhaka seems to be getting a lot of praise in some quarters today, I thought he was fairly anonymous but then is that the new bar for some fans and pundits, a game where he makes very few mistakes is a good game for him? :rubchin:

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SteveO 35
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Re: Soton A Thurs ko 6pm

Post by SteveO 35 »

augie wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:56 am
SteveO 35 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:44 am
mcdowell42 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:37 am
Arteta on whether Guendouzi's absence was linked to the incident at Brighton: “No. Whatever issue we have internally, I will resolve it in a private way. I explained that I cannot explain and that's it.”

Reports are emerging that Matteo told the club he would like to leave.
Hope so - anyone who doesn't want to be at the club can f+++ off. This lad's ego getting to levels not seen since Bendtner's departure. If he really thinks he's outgrown the club and is going to walk into a top side's starting XI he can think again. Will be playing in the Turkish league in the next 2-3 seasons unless he gets a grip



Not having that Steve O - anytime guendouzi has played for us he has always put in maximum effort. He is far from the finished product, but bearing in mind that he has come from french second division, I think that he has done well thus far, and with the right manager to educate him he could be a star in the future.
It is too easy for some to isolate some issues and put it all on him - last season he was dropped for a guy that told the fans to fcuk off, and told the manager he wanted to leave, so he was entitled to be pissed imo. Why was xhaka not dropped for saying that he wanted out ? Southampton stripped hojberg of their captaincy when he said that he wanted out - they didnt drop him from the team or squad though :roll: It is double standards with arteta and I have long said that. This summer will see the departure of guendouzi and torreira and we will then be left with xhaka as a mainstay of our midfield, and boy do I look forward to listening to the moans when he is stolling around our midfield next season.

Arteta has shown himself to be anything but the great coach who can develop young players cos he continues to show that he has no patience with them - he would rather stick with older experienced players that he doesnt need to coach, and then he will be lauded by fans for getting them to run around a bit more than before :roll:

Btw, in the last few days some of the media talk is of some big clubs of europe are after him - wouldnt that be some endorsement of arteta's judgement ?
Mate, you're wound up over nothing here. I haven't called into question his abilities, which at the tender age of 19 outweighed anything that the Swiss dollop has ever shown., You also know my opinions about Arteta, particularly the one about the supposed wonderful improvement we've been seeing plus his 'matey matey' approach to the older players

My point is that it never works when someone doesn't want to be at a club they have fallen out with - whether that's his fault or Arteta's or both. I like some of his qualities but he hasn't earned the right to strut round the club like a Patrick Vieira has he? If you hang on to players who don't want to be here or upset the dressing room it never works - it didn't with someone like Fabregas who was infinitely more talented but clearly spent most of his last year sulking and eyeing up a move to Barcelona

Arteta is an utter goon - I can only imagine the uproar here if Emery had reinstalled Xhaka and Mustafi, and given David Luiz another year on his deal, plus contracts for Cedric and Mari.

The very player we're discussing on this thread......Guendouzi......who signed him? And Leno? And Torreira? And Martinelli? And who promoted Saka? What a crock of shit they turned out to be compared to the Wenger goons who have now been reinstated by Arteta

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rodders999
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Re: Soton A Thurs ko 6pm

Post by rodders999 »

GoonerMuzz wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:38 am
Did I completely miss something yesterday because Xhaka seems to be getting a lot of praise in some quarters today, I thought he was fairly anonymous but then is that the new bar for some fans and pundits, a game where he makes very few mistakes is a good game for him? :rubchin:
Again what stood out for me last night, as it does in every game to be fair, is just how bland our midfield is, they're completely dysfunctional. They don't protect the defense to any great degree and they're link up play with the forwards is practically non existent.

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rodders999
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Re: Soton A Thurs ko 6pm

Post by rodders999 »

Emery didn't sign any of those players SteveO and it's unfair to say otherwise. Either Edu, Sven and Raul (or a combination of all 3) were to people to bring those players to the club.

It's well documented that Emery wanted Zaha and was given Pepe instead, players are bought by Raul and co. and the it's up to the coach to work with that.

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augie
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Re: Soton A Thurs ko 6pm

Post by augie »

rodders999 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:31 am
Emery didn't sign any of those players SteveO and it's unfair to say otherwise. Either Edu, Sven and Raul (or a combination of all 3) were to people to bring those players to the club.

It's well documented that Emery wanted Zaha and was given Pepe instead, players are bought by Raul and co. and the it's up to the coach to work with that.



Emery absolutely picked out guendouzi and had been watching him when he was manager of psg

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augie
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Re: Soton A Thurs ko 6pm

Post by augie »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:54 am
augie wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:56 am
SteveO 35 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:44 am
mcdowell42 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:37 am
Arteta on whether Guendouzi's absence was linked to the incident at Brighton: “No. Whatever issue we have internally, I will resolve it in a private way. I explained that I cannot explain and that's it.”

Reports are emerging that Matteo told the club he would like to leave.
Hope so - anyone who doesn't want to be at the club can f+++ off. This lad's ego getting to levels not seen since Bendtner's departure. If he really thinks he's outgrown the club and is going to walk into a top side's starting XI he can think again. Will be playing in the Turkish league in the next 2-3 seasons unless he gets a grip



Not having that Steve O - anytime guendouzi has played for us he has always put in maximum effort. He is far from the finished product, but bearing in mind that he has come from french second division, I think that he has done well thus far, and with the right manager to educate him he could be a star in the future.
It is too easy for some to isolate some issues and put it all on him - last season he was dropped for a guy that told the fans to fcuk off, and told the manager he wanted to leave, so he was entitled to be pissed imo. Why was xhaka not dropped for saying that he wanted out ? Southampton stripped hojberg of their captaincy when he said that he wanted out - they didnt drop him from the team or squad though :roll: It is double standards with arteta and I have long said that. This summer will see the departure of guendouzi and torreira and we will then be left with xhaka as a mainstay of our midfield, and boy do I look forward to listening to the moans when he is stolling around our midfield next season.

Arteta has shown himself to be anything but the great coach who can develop young players cos he continues to show that he has no patience with them - he would rather stick with older experienced players that he doesnt need to coach, and then he will be lauded by fans for getting them to run around a bit more than before :roll:

Btw, in the last few days some of the media talk is of some big clubs of europe are after him - wouldnt that be some endorsement of arteta's judgement ?
Mate, you're wound up over nothing here. I haven't called into question his abilities, which at the tender age of 19 outweighed anything that the Swiss dollop has ever shown., You also know my opinions about Arteta, particularly the one about the supposed wonderful improvement we've been seeing plus his 'matey matey' approach to the older players

My point is that it never works when someone doesn't want to be at a club they have fallen out with - whether that's his fault or Arteta's or both. I like some of his qualities but he hasn't earned the right to strut round the club like a Patrick Vieira has he? If you hang on to players who don't want to be here or upset the dressing room it never works - it didn't with someone like Fabregas who was infinitely more talented but clearly spent most of his last year sulking and eyeing up a move to Barcelona

Arteta is an utter goon - I can only imagine the uproar here if Emery had reinstalled Xhaka and Mustafi, and given David Luiz another year on his deal, plus contracts for Cedric and Mari.

The very player we're discussing on this thread......Guendouzi......who signed him? And Leno? And Torreira? And Martinelli? And who promoted Saka? What a crock of shit they turned out to be compared to the Wenger goons who have now been reinstated by Arteta



I know what you are saying, and I absolutely agree that guendouzi (or any of our players) havent earned the right to strut around like king ding a ling - what I will absolutely say, is that a good manager, a proper manager, would pull guendouzi aside and coach and educate him on the proper way to behave as a pro footballer, instead of just binning him like arteta is doing. This for me is a big difference between coaching manual management, and proper management - most of the top managers will say that man management is a big part of their job, and it seems to me that arteta hasnt a scooby doo on this front. It seems to me that many people (fans and media) have decided that guendouzi is totally at fault here and must be purged from the club - I gave 2 above of examples of players that werent thrown out the door like that, but nobody seems interested in following the lead of those examples, as if there is only one way to handle this and that is to get rid.
What is especially frustrating to me is that I dont believe that we are in a place that allows us to cast aside players like guendouzi - we dont have much money to spend, and I have always lived by the ethos that any replacement player bought needs to be an upgrade on the player he replaces, but with our funds I'm not sure that will be possible. I liked the plan that was in place prior to arteta where we seemed to be going with young hungry players, partially cos that's all we can do, but also because the older players seem to be on easy street and dont seem motivated by success. I read a quote from a manager recently where he said that he doesnt mind if one of his players is motivated by money, cos most of the time that drive for more money will need a successful career to make it possible - our senior players are already on big money, so the need to win isnt there. We should put our younger players on big success orientated contracts cos we can both win that way

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rodders999
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Re: Soton A Thurs ko 6pm

Post by rodders999 »

augie wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:50 am
rodders999 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:31 am
Emery didn't sign any of those players SteveO and it's unfair to say otherwise. Either Edu, Sven and Raul (or a combination of all 3) were to people to bring those players to the club.

It's well documented that Emery wanted Zaha and was given Pepe instead, players are bought by Raul and co. and the it's up to the coach to work with that.



Emery absolutely picked out guendouzi and had been watching him when he was manager of psg
Would have to disagree with that Augie, Sven had been to scout him while Emery was still managing PSG so he was on already on our radar.

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SteveO 35
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Re: Soton A Thurs ko 6pm

Post by SteveO 35 »

augie wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:09 am
SteveO 35 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:54 am
augie wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:56 am
SteveO 35 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:44 am
mcdowell42 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:37 am
Arteta on whether Guendouzi's absence was linked to the incident at Brighton: “No. Whatever issue we have internally, I will resolve it in a private way. I explained that I cannot explain and that's it.”

Reports are emerging that Matteo told the club he would like to leave.
Hope so - anyone who doesn't want to be at the club can f+++ off. This lad's ego getting to levels not seen since Bendtner's departure. If he really thinks he's outgrown the club and is going to walk into a top side's starting XI he can think again. Will be playing in the Turkish league in the next 2-3 seasons unless he gets a grip



Not having that Steve O - anytime guendouzi has played for us he has always put in maximum effort. He is far from the finished product, but bearing in mind that he has come from french second division, I think that he has done well thus far, and with the right manager to educate him he could be a star in the future.
It is too easy for some to isolate some issues and put it all on him - last season he was dropped for a guy that told the fans to fcuk off, and told the manager he wanted to leave, so he was entitled to be pissed imo. Why was xhaka not dropped for saying that he wanted out ? Southampton stripped hojberg of their captaincy when he said that he wanted out - they didnt drop him from the team or squad though :roll: It is double standards with arteta and I have long said that. This summer will see the departure of guendouzi and torreira and we will then be left with xhaka as a mainstay of our midfield, and boy do I look forward to listening to the moans when he is stolling around our midfield next season.

Arteta has shown himself to be anything but the great coach who can develop young players cos he continues to show that he has no patience with them - he would rather stick with older experienced players that he doesnt need to coach, and then he will be lauded by fans for getting them to run around a bit more than before :roll:

Btw, in the last few days some of the media talk is of some big clubs of europe are after him - wouldnt that be some endorsement of arteta's judgement ?
Mate, you're wound up over nothing here. I haven't called into question his abilities, which at the tender age of 19 outweighed anything that the Swiss dollop has ever shown., You also know my opinions about Arteta, particularly the one about the supposed wonderful improvement we've been seeing plus his 'matey matey' approach to the older players

My point is that it never works when someone doesn't want to be at a club they have fallen out with - whether that's his fault or Arteta's or both. I like some of his qualities but he hasn't earned the right to strut round the club like a Patrick Vieira has he? If you hang on to players who don't want to be here or upset the dressing room it never works - it didn't with someone like Fabregas who was infinitely more talented but clearly spent most of his last year sulking and eyeing up a move to Barcelona

Arteta is an utter goon - I can only imagine the uproar here if Emery had reinstalled Xhaka and Mustafi, and given David Luiz another year on his deal, plus contracts for Cedric and Mari.

The very player we're discussing on this thread......Guendouzi......who signed him? And Leno? And Torreira? And Martinelli? And who promoted Saka? What a crock of shit they turned out to be compared to the Wenger goons who have now been reinstated by Arteta



I know what you are saying, and I absolutely agree that guendouzi (or any of our players) havent earned the right to strut around like king ding a ling - what I will absolutely say, is that a good manager, a proper manager, would pull guendouzi aside and coach and educate him on the proper way to behave as a pro footballer, instead of just binning him like arteta is doing. This for me is a big difference between coaching manual management, and proper management - most of the top managers will say that man management is a big part of their job, and it seems to me that arteta hasnt a scooby doo on this front. It seems to me that many people (fans and media) have decided that guendouzi is totally at fault here and must be purged from the club - I gave 2 above of examples of players that werent thrown out the door like that, but nobody seems interested in following the lead of those examples, as if there is only one way to handle this and that is to get rid.
What is especially frustrating to me is that I dont believe that we are in a place that allows us to cast aside players like guendouzi - we dont have much money to spend, and I have always lived by the ethos that any replacement player bought needs to be an upgrade on the player he replaces, but with our funds I'm not sure that will be possible. I liked the plan that was in place prior to arteta where we seemed to be going with young hungry players, partially cos that's all we can do, but also because the older players seem to be on easy street and dont seem motivated by success. I read a quote from a manager recently where he said that he doesnt mind if one of his players is motivated by money, cos most of the time that drive for more money will need a successful career to make it possible - our senior players are already on big money, so the need to win isnt there. We should put our younger players on big success orientated contracts cos we can both win that way
That point is definitely true. In fairness to Arteta, we don't know the full extent of the disruption this lad causes and even the world's finest managers like Cloughie or Sir Rednose have moved players on who don't get it eventually. I agree that you don't just bin someone at the first sign of trouble but the onus is on the player to learn and mature, as much as it is on the manager to provide that counsel. I suppose we don't really know the facts

What we do know is that Xhaka and Mustafi are back amongst his favourites and the quite frankly ridiculous deals offered to Luiz, Cedric and Mari. What any of them have done to deserve it is beyond me, and certainly if Guendouzi gets binned he'd better sign some decent young quality to replace him, rather than any of the journeymen listed above

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