Arsenal are still an elite club

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
arrgee
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by arrgee »

Jock Gooner wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:16 pm
I'm beginning to suspect that Unai has somehow managed to hack into an account on here :lol:
Good ebening!

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SteveO 35
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by SteveO 35 »

Jock Gooner wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:16 pm
I'm beginning to suspect that Unai has somehow managed to hack into an account on here :lol:
Hope you're enjoying the huge improvement under Arteta :D :barscarf: :barscarf:

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DB10GOONER
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by DB10GOONER »

arrgee wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:52 pm
Jock Gooner wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:16 pm
I'm beginning to suspect that Unai has somehow managed to hack into an account on here :lol:
Good ebening!
:lol: :lol:

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GoonerMuzz
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by GoonerMuzz »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:01 pm
Jock Gooner wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:16 pm
I'm beginning to suspect that Unai has somehow managed to hack into an account on here :lol:
Hope you're enjoying the huge improvement under Arteta :D :barscarf: :barscarf:
Seriously SteveO I dont think anyone is convinced Arteta is doing a good job but are you really trying to convince us that Unai could have turned things round by the end of this season :rubchin:

I genuinely believe we would be either right where we are or even worse if Unai had remained, for whatever reason he just couldn't get this squad playing and never seemed to settle on a play style or first 11, it is rose tints to say we'd be any better off with Unai as far as I'm concerned. He did well for the first 6 or 7 months but the end of the season being thrown away and diabolical performance in the Europa Cup Final and for me a poor start to the season and seeming loss of the dressing room meant there was no possible recovery for him.

If I'm honest I'd of preferred someone like those DB mentioned, or even a Dyche style manager but we ended up with Arteta, exactly what our Owner, Footballing and Technical Directors appear to have wanted, someone inexperienced and easily manipulated, they basically want someone to coach the first team while they run everything else..?



On topic if I'm honest we've never been a truly elite Club, a big one domestically but never quite elite, I think you have to make it in Europe too to be truly Elite :box:

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SteveO 35
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by SteveO 35 »

GoonerMuzz wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:35 pm
SteveO 35 wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:01 pm
Jock Gooner wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:16 pm
I'm beginning to suspect that Unai has somehow managed to hack into an account on here :lol:
Hope you're enjoying the huge improvement under Arteta :D :barscarf: :barscarf:
Seriously SteveO I dont think anyone is convinced Arteta is doing a good job but are you really trying to convince us that Unai could have turned things round by the end of this season :rubchin:

I genuinely believe we would be either right where we are or even worse if Unai had remained, for whatever reason he just couldn't get this squad playing and never seemed to settle on a play style or first 11, it is rose tints to say we'd be any better off with Unai as far as I'm concerned. He did well for the first 6 or 7 months but the end of the season being thrown away and diabolical performance in the Europa Cup Final and for me a poor start to the season and seeming loss of the dressing room meant there was no possible recovery for him.

If I'm honest I'd of preferred someone like those DB mentioned, or even a Dyche style manager but we ended up with Arteta, exactly what our Owner, Footballing and Technical Directors appear to have wanted, someone inexperienced and easily manipulated, they basically want someone to coach the first team while they run everything else..?



On topic if I'm honest we've never been a truly elite Club, a big one domestically but never quite elite, I think you have to make it in Europe too to be truly Elite :box:
I guess we will never know. Emery was on a bad run with a bunch of players who were half his and half Wenger's and it was no surprise to me that the sulky *word censored* who wanted him out were mostly Wenger's. Most of us said we would give him 2 full years to establish his own team and get rid of the wasters. In the scheme of things I wouldn't have cared if we had finished 15th if the rebuild was allowed to continue. The difference with Arteta is that he is demoting the likes of Martinelli, Saka, Holding, Guendouzi and Torreira in favour of calamitous c.unts who will never improve. I have nothing against Arteta the man....in fact I always gave him a lot of credit as a player. However, if our previous manager wasn't allowed the minimum 2 years to rebuild - some even said it would take longer - then I don't see why he should have free licence to balls up everywhere and reinstate the cocks that Emery was getting rid of. Lacazette, Mustafi, Xhaka and Ozil were dead men walking and if he had Tierney fit then Kolasinac would be going with them. Instead they are all mainstays with the exception of Ozil. You know what - it wouldn't surprise me to see Elneny and Mkhitaryan back in the starting XI next season

If Emery had finished mid table but got rid of this shite, would that be worse than finishing 9th and building a team around them?

One thing I would take a punt at is that we wouldn't have crumbled at home to Olmpiacos because his record in that cup is incredible and he knew that was the real pathway to Europe. There was one world class player in that final and he tore us to shreds without doubt

arrgee
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by arrgee »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:04 pm
?

One thing I would take a punt at is that we wouldn't have crumbled at home to Olmpiacos because his record in that cup is incredible and he knew that was the real pathway to Europe. There was one world class player in that final and he tore us to shreds without doubt
Emery was done by player power. Malcontents like Oh he’s ill and Lackofgoals (And others no doubt) undermined him. Apparently he became a bit of a joke figure with his poor command of English. Now had this been dirty Leeds getting shot of Clough, you could understand the higher ups taking notice, but as it was this was the highest paid underachievers ever to grace a football club. You would have thought they would get rid of the players rather than the manager.

Biggest mistake Emery made was indulging them. Had he kicked them out and played the kids the fans would have backed him. But the board wanted the quick fix to get back into the Champions League. And he almost did it...

arrgee
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by arrgee »

GoonerMuzz wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:35 pm
On topic if I'm honest we've never been a truly elite Club, a big one domestically but never quite elite, I think you have to make it in Europe to be truly Elite :box:
Agreed, the European record is awful. Worse than Chelsea and Scum, not much better than Wet Spam. Forest and Villa ahead as well.
Yet, In terms of money Arsenal have been in the top 10 for last 15 years or so. The question is why a club with only Real Madrid and Manchester United ahead of them in terms of value at a point in the mid-2000s haven’t won anything bar FA Cups since then. The answer is the wiggy Cn.ut.

Jock Gooner
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by Jock Gooner »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:04 pm
GoonerMuzz wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:35 pm
SteveO 35 wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:01 pm
Jock Gooner wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:16 pm
I'm beginning to suspect that Unai has somehow managed to hack into an account on here :lol:
Hope you're enjoying the huge improvement under Arteta :D :barscarf: :barscarf:
Seriously SteveO I dont think anyone is convinced Arteta is doing a good job but are you really trying to convince us that Unai could have turned things round by the end of this season :rubchin:

I genuinely believe we would be either right where we are or even worse if Unai had remained, for whatever reason he just couldn't get this squad playing and never seemed to settle on a play style or first 11, it is rose tints to say we'd be any better off with Unai as far as I'm concerned. He did well for the first 6 or 7 months but the end of the season being thrown away and diabolical performance in the Europa Cup Final and for me a poor start to the season and seeming loss of the dressing room meant there was no possible recovery for him.

If I'm honest I'd of preferred someone like those DB mentioned, or even a Dyche style manager but we ended up with Arteta, exactly what our Owner, Footballing and Technical Directors appear to have wanted, someone inexperienced and easily manipulated, they basically want someone to coach the first team while they run everything else..?



On topic if I'm honest we've never been a truly elite Club, a big one domestically but never quite elite, I think you have to make it in Europe too to be truly Elite :box:
I guess we will never know. Emery was on a bad run with a bunch of players who were half his and half Wenger's and it was no surprise to me that the sulky *word censored* who wanted him out were mostly Wenger's. Most of us said we would give him 2 full years to establish his own team and get rid of the wasters. In the scheme of things I wouldn't have cared if we had finished 15th if the rebuild was allowed to continue. The difference with Arteta is that he is demoting the likes of Martinelli, Saka, Holding, Guendouzi and Torreira in favour of calamitous c.unts who will never improve. I have nothing against Arteta the man....in fact I always gave him a lot of credit as a player. However, if our previous manager wasn't allowed the minimum 2 years to rebuild - some even said it would take longer - then I don't see why he should have free licence to balls up everywhere and reinstate the cocks that Emery was getting rid of. Lacazette, Mustafi, Xhaka and Ozil were dead men walking and if he had Tierney fit then Kolasinac would be going with them. Instead they are all mainstays with the exception of Ozil. You know what - it wouldn't surprise me to see Elneny and Mkhitaryan back in the starting XI next season

If Emery had finished mid table but got rid of this shite, would that be worse than finishing 9th and building a team around them?

One thing I would take a punt at is that we wouldn't have crumbled at home to Olmpiacos because his record in that cup is incredible and he knew that was the real pathway to Europe. There was one world class player in that final and he tore us to shreds without doubt

I agree with Muzz. The vast majority of folk on here didn't take any real delight in the fact that UE was shown the door. Similarly we didn't want Arteta as his replacement. It doesn't really matter what we want anymore, while wiggy is in overall charge we will just lurch from one fuck up to the next.

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the playing mantis
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by the playing mantis »

Jock Gooner wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:16 pm
I'm beginning to suspect that Unai has somehow managed to hack into an account on here :lol:
is unai emery a anagram of abou diaby somehow?

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the playing mantis
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by the playing mantis »

we were getting worse game by game with no digns of improvement, let alone a style, game plan etc. we had no idea how emery wanted us to play or what he was trying to do style wise...initially we were pressing high and working on fitness to be able to implemnet that, his 2nd season that went out of the window for what? what was he trying to do tactically or stylistically as i have no idea. i liked him and wanted him to succeed, but he had to go having lost the players, having seemingly no ability to impose a style on the team and watching progressively worse performances (not results - i can accept bad results if there are signs of improvenet, learning from mistakes etc but there wasnt).

he had o go. no one wanted arteta, and if he has us drifting with no improvement come next christmas, he needs to go too.

just because arteta is not doing any better doesnt mean it was right to keep emery on. why not keep AW on as hes outdone both. a lot of us said it will take a number of managers after AW to find the right one. it will. we are seeing evidence of it. sadly with the wiggy *word censored* in charge i see no real hope of improvement or the right appointment until he fucks off. id happily have sean dyche in to get us tough to beat, hardworking. get that foundation in then get an 'elite' manager in to build on the basics.

arrgee
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by arrgee »

the playing mantis wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:18 pm
a lot of us said it will take a number of managers after AW to find the right one. it will. we are seeing evidence of it.
Milan have been going through a few and little sign of improvement. That’ll teach them to employ Gazidis.

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Nos89
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by Nos89 »

In the last 7 seasons we've reached at least one cup final, and in the season we didn't reach a final we came second in the league, even though we should've won it that season. Only man city, and chelski can better that record. Given the investment by private owners that really is an elite level of consistency,

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StuartL
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by StuartL »

Nos89 wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:47 pm
In the last 7 seasons we've reached at least one cup final, and in the season we didn't reach a final we came second in the league, even though we should've won it that season. Only man city, and chelski can better that record. Given the investment by private owners that really is an elite level of consistency,
Nos89 - I think Liverpoo LLL would argue that winning the league and European champions tops being a finalist in the league cup.


That validation is right up there with Wenker’s argument that getting regularly knocked out of the Cl over 20 years was remarkable consistency and that we were better than Bayern, Barca, Real as each had a season where they didn’t qualify at all

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