Arsenal are still an elite club

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
Redarmy
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by Redarmy »

goonertux wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:00 pm
Very easy for an ‘elite’ club to fall off the radar. Just ask fans of Leeds, Forest, even Villa. All it takes is overspending (check), clueless owners (check), terrible purchases (check), overpaid players (check), and a lack of tactics and foresight (check). Future’s not looking too bright!
Looking at it realistically look certain to drop even further down the pecking order.....Kronke has to go, hes killing our club

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Kvltman
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by Kvltman »

I get what you mean when we are a historically elite club, but we simply do not feel like that right now, and worse I do not feel confident about our short or long term future. This is despite having a very promising and highly rated coach in Arteta and a few quality academy players.

My concern lies with the upper management and owners of the club. If we behaved like an elite club the Kroenke’s would invest heavily in a playing squad that very evidently needs a big refresh. They would also have a strategy in place for future transfer business, ie buy low sell high until you become so good you no longer need to sell eg Liverpool.

Such signings as Luiz worry me because we should be looking to invest in the future, not such a player who is highly paid and also highly error prone. This is one example of a worrying direction that the management and ownership are green lighting.

Overall I just can’t see us becoming a giant in European football under the ownership of KSE. Despite their lip service, I don’t think they are motivated to be the very best. Unfortunately we just seem to be another part of their very mediocre sports portfolio.

Jock Gooner
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by Jock Gooner »

Redarmy wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:10 am
goonertux wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:00 pm
Very easy for an ‘elite’ club to fall off the radar. Just ask fans of Leeds, Forest, even Villa. All it takes is overspending (check), clueless owners (check), terrible purchases (check), overpaid players (check), and a lack of tactics and foresight (check). Future’s not looking too bright!
Looking at it realistically look certain to drop even further down the pecking order.....Kronke has to go, hes killing our club

The problem is that he will kill the club before he finally does go. The only alternatives are somebody coughing up the £2bn it will take to get him to fu.ck off or to literally run him out of town. I don't see either of those two happening any time soon.

Just watching the villa v wolves match with my son and talking about Mings as an option. Googled him and one of the first articles was a report about villa fans laughing off the idea of us buying Mings with the quote......aren't they still paying for Pepe. We're fast turning into an elite joke.

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Nos89
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by Nos89 »

Almunia is a clown wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:51 am
Nos89 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:36 am

If we don't qualify for Europe this season it will be the first time in 24 years that we haven't contested a European trophy. No other English club can make that claim and it is a record only matched and bettered by Bayern Munich and Real Madrid.
Claiming 24 consecutive years in Europe doesn't mean any more than getting 4th place or the calendar year trophy, it's just a desperate claim similar to Wenger & his apologists used for years. It's not as if we won any European cups during that period either. The Toilet Lids are still ahead of us in European trophies & that's that matters. :cussing:

As for 3rd most successful club, it's a very far back third place & we are in real danger of others catching us up on that score. :cussing:

We are going backwards, 16 years without a title & no sign of even making a challenge! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Not disagreeing with any of that as that is the reality of our current situation. Doesn't mean were are not a stalwart, institution of a club. The 24 year unbroken qualification for European competition is a remarkable achievement and not one that should be easily dismissed as it means we've finished in the top 5 or won a trophy. I've written many times that wenger never took advantage of that golden period when we should have won European trophies. To only have got to 3 finals, 5 semi-finals in that period, wenger was neglectful because the priority was always finishing in the top 4. That does hurt.
It also hurts that we've reached more European finals than any other London club, yet have the least amount of wins. The 2006 Champions league final was our moment of destiny. Wenger made the wrong call by taking pires off, and not bringing on DB10 for last 20 mins. I believed that at the time and it hasn't changed. We win that 2006 final our history changes. It certainly changed Barcelona's.
It's unfortunate that when we should've have been dominant we were de-railed firstly by WW 2, secondly the European club ban, thirdly was entirely of our own making, playing champions league games at Wembley, and fourthly,building and moving to a new stadium.
I do believe our time will come again, sooner than a lot of you think it will, and this time we will get it right domestically and in Europe.

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Kvltman
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by Kvltman »

Nos89 I admire your optimism and hope you are proven correct, however I really am struggling to see past this ownership.

All the sports teams they own are mediocre or worse (hurts to include is in that).

The Rams like us have a great young coach but they barely contested the SuperBowl they were very fortunate to reach and had a poor year last time out. Their division is tough and they are unlikely to finish above San Francisco or Seattle next time.

The Nuggets have never progressed to a championship series.

All the others seem barely worth mentioning, for their lack of success or pedigree.

For all their talk, we just do not seem to have a plan to how we become a successful club again. Re signing David Luiz is a really bad sign. I was hoping we would have a smarter transfer policy in place by now.

Almunia is a clown
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by Almunia is a clown »

Some 54 year old Gooner said a few weeks back, he doesn't think we will win the league title again during his lifetime, it might even have been a poster on this site? :rubchin:

I'm a few years ahead of him & fear the same, if we could only win the European Cup I would be happy enough, after all Chav Nazi's & Red Mickeys both even won it whilst finishing outside the top four places in the league. :rubchin:

Which is why I can never forgive Wenger for just concentrating on 4th place CL qualification ahead of winning a trophy which has becoming a holy grail for many Gooners, even a local Scouser living in the Gooner Valley calls it exactly that!

Wiggy vermin has been majority shareholder since 2009 & we have declined every since.

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GoonerMuzz
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by GoonerMuzz »

I guess it comes down to your definition of elite.

For me 'Elite' in this day and age means:

1) challenging for trophies continually and winning the more important ones, not being also rans in a competition you have no chance of winning.

2) It means being able to attract the greatest players currently in the game and being able to afford them, not continually spouting shit about 'limited budgets'.

3) It means having the confidence to go up against any team out there and confidently expecting to win, not looking at fixtures and dreading them especially against teams which should be considered well below you.

4) It means being at home in a fortress where the opposition no matter who they are absolutely shitting themselves coming to play us.

5) It means club leadership making deals that constantly improve the finances of the club beyond that which is reasonably expected, strong firm direction and positive decisive command and control.

6) It means facilities, coaching and training at all levels which attracts the very best out there, not just playing staff but all the backroom bods as well

There are very few of those criteria I've listed which at this moment we are even close to achieving and therefore currently we are not an Elite club. History is in the past , we love to look back on it and bask in its glow and it is a nice thing to do but in reality football has moved on so far that '89 means nothing to anyone other than us Gooners and even the 'Invincibles' is becoming a distant memory to a lot of others out there it is so long ago, christ there are players in the PL who we no more than toddlers at the time :rubchin:

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Kvltman
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by Kvltman »

Almunia is a clown wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:48 pm
Some 54 year old Gooner said a few weeks back, he doesn't think we will win the league title again during his lifetime, it might even have been a poster on this site? :rubchin:

I'm a few years ahead of him & fear the same, if we could only win the European Cup I would be happy enough, after all Chav Nazi's & Red Mickeys both even won it whilst finishing outside the top four places in the league. :rubchin:

Which is why I can never forgive Wenger for just concentrating on 4th place CL qualification ahead of winning a trophy which has becoming a holy grail for many Gooners, even a local Scouser living in the Gooner Valley calls it exactly that!

Wiggy vermin has been majority shareholder since 2009 & we have declined every since.
We are already over halfway to the 30 years Liverpool had to wait.

I am unconvinced that we will seriously challenge for the title in the next few years, given our situation and the positions of power our ‘rivals’ have built for themselves.

Even though I am a believer deep down that ‘We Are The Arsenal’ and we will be back (the cream rises to the top etc) the truth is the game has changed and teams like Man City and Chelsea will always have unlimited funds to improves themselves and then we have to contend with perennial giants like Man Utd and Liverpool, you then look at clubs with huge ambitions like Wolves who are going from strength to strength.

Unfortunately I just can’t abide our owners whatsoever. I think they are purely in it for the money and despite their keen words there is little evidence to suggest they are willing to do anything it takes to make us a powerhouse again.

I just hope we haven’t missed our window to become a true giant of world football. With a bit more luck (or competency arguably) we could have won the CL 03-06 and it could have changed us forever. Certainly after the first few years of the new stadium we could have pushed on given the opportunities it gave us. We just seemed content to be part of the elite and not be the absolute elite.

I am not getting any younger either so would love to see us win another couple of titles and definitely more European silverware. We don’t have nearly enough honours in continental competition for a club of our size.

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SteveO 35
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by SteveO 35 »

I wonder how many of the other elite clubs in Europe will be knocking on Southampton's door this Summer to see if they have any cast off full backs they want to get rid of

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shu
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by shu »

Almunia is a clown wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:48 pm
Some 54 year old Gooner said a few weeks back, he doesn't think we will win the league title again during his lifetime, it might even have been a poster on this site? :rubchin:

I'm a few years ahead of him & fear the same, if we could only win the European Cup I would be happy enough, after all Chav Nazi's & Red Mickeys both even won it whilst finishing outside the top four places in the league. :rubchin:

Which is why I can never forgive Wenger for just concentrating on 4th place CL qualification ahead of winning a trophy which has becoming a holy grail for many Gooners, even a local Scouser living in the Gooner Valley calls it exactly that!

Wiggy vermin has been majority shareholder since 2009 & we have declined every since.
Wolves fans in the 50's , Spuds 60/61 would have thought they would carry on winning.
We have a really shit team , you have to back a lot of years to find worse . I remember posting years ago when wenger was letting it slip by letting top stars leave at 30 and replacing them with crap. It was hard to get top 4 and challenge for the title but harder to break in.

Luiz is shite , xhaka told us to fuck off , ozil wtf , They really are not fit to represent Arsenal.

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DB10GOONER
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by DB10GOONER »

We are historically a massive club and anyone that says any different is an arsehole tbh. 8)

But we are not a modern "elite" club in anything but name and the world of SlySports News hyperbole. Real elite clubs challenge for and win trophies, they buy big name stars. They move forward and compete with other elite clubs. We do none of that.

Not sure about all the "we won't win the PL again in our lifetime" stuff but we certainly won't win it again while the wiggy parasite owns us. :censored:

Nos - agree 100% about Wenger taking Bob off and not bringing on DB10. The fact he took Bob off and left the circle dribbler Hleb on still burns my piss to this day tbh. :x

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IW8Goalmachine
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by IW8Goalmachine »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:22 am
We are historically a massive club and anyone that says any different is an arsehole tbh. 8)

But we are not a modern "elite" club in anything but name and the world of SlySports News hyperbole. Real elite clubs challenge for and win trophies, they buy big name stars. They move forward and compete with other elite clubs. We do none of that.

Not sure about all the "we won't win the PL again in our lifetime" stuff but we certainly won't win it again while the wiggy parasite owns us. :censored:

Nos - agree 100% about Wenger taking Bob off and not bringing on DB10. The fact he took Bob off and left the circle dribbler Hleb on still burns my piss to this day tbh. :x
I couldn't believe what I was seeing that night.

The one player that can pop up and score at any time and the dry kebab takes him off :banghead:

Another huge mistake was changing the defence. I know people will say Cashley was our best in that position but why change a defence line that didn't concede in the knock out stages?

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DB10GOONER
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by DB10GOONER »

IW8Goalmachine wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:51 am
DB10GOONER wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:22 am
We are historically a massive club and anyone that says any different is an arsehole tbh. 8)

But we are not a modern "elite" club in anything but name and the world of SlySports News hyperbole. Real elite clubs challenge for and win trophies, they buy big name stars. They move forward and compete with other elite clubs. We do none of that.

Not sure about all the "we won't win the PL again in our lifetime" stuff but we certainly won't win it again while the wiggy parasite owns us. :censored:

Nos - agree 100% about Wenger taking Bob off and not bringing on DB10. The fact he took Bob off and left the circle dribbler Hleb on still burns my piss to this day tbh. :x
I couldn't believe what I was seeing that night.

The one player that can pop up and score at any time and the dry kebab takes him off :banghead:

Another huge mistake was changing the defence. I know people will say Cashley was our best in that position but why change a defence line that didn't concede in the knock out stages?
Especially to play the little rat cùnt when it was known he'd been on a huge piss up a couple of days before the final with his chav mates (soon to be chav teammates). Their winner came down the left too...... :|

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augie
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by augie »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:03 am
IW8Goalmachine wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:51 am
DB10GOONER wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:22 am
We are historically a massive club and anyone that says any different is an arsehole tbh. 8)

But we are not a modern "elite" club in anything but name and the world of SlySports News hyperbole. Real elite clubs challenge for and win trophies, they buy big name stars. They move forward and compete with other elite clubs. We do none of that.

Not sure about all the "we won't win the PL again in our lifetime" stuff but we certainly won't win it again while the wiggy parasite owns us. :censored:

Nos - agree 100% about Wenger taking Bob off and not bringing on DB10. The fact he took Bob off and left the circle dribbler Hleb on still burns my piss to this day tbh. :x
I couldn't believe what I was seeing that night.

The one player that can pop up and score at any time and the dry kebab takes him off :banghead:

Another huge mistake was changing the defence. I know people will say Cashley was our best in that position but why change a defence line that didn't concede in the knock out stages?
Especially to play the little rat cùnt when it was known he'd been on a huge piss up a couple of days before the final with his chav mates (soon to be chav teammates). Their winner came down the left too...... :|



No way should the money grabbing judas rat have played the final - I was never a huge fan of flamini (another money grabbing wh.ore), but he had earned his spot, and I would rather have played 11 committed players than play a c.unt that had illegally discussed moving to the chavs with moaninho. I will always believe that we let the chavs and cashley off way too light, and I am not saying that cos gallas didnt work out

Gunner Rob
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by Gunner Rob »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:22 am
We are historically a massive club and anyone that says any different is an arsehole tbh. 8)

But we are not a modern "elite" club in anything but name and the world of SlySports News hyperbole. Real elite clubs challenge for and win trophies, they buy big name stars. They move forward and compete with other elite clubs. We do none of that.

Not sure about all the "we won't win the PL again in our lifetime" stuff but we certainly won't win it again while the wiggy parasite owns us. :censored:

Nos - agree 100% about Wenger taking Bob off and not bringing on DB10. The fact he took Bob off and left the circle dribbler Hleb on still burns my piss to this day tbh. :x
we are a modern "elite" club when it comes to the modern world of social media, twitter and Arsenal TV have seen to that.
we are up there at the pinnacle of the "banter clubs"

no longer for the modern fan are trophies that important anymore - I thought it was noticeable that even when we were winning FA Cups a few years back there was actually very little merchandise celebrating that in the club shops.
it is all about the here and now, who is talked about and who isn't. Arsenal are one of the most talked about clubs and therefore TV view us a massive draw still.

all we need to do (and Stan Kroenke has recognised this) is to remain in the Premier League.
everything else is incidental. our strategy is to make people believe that we can challenge for trophies not actually challenge for them.

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