Arsenal are still an elite club

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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SteveO 35
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by SteveO 35 »

We are at the level where we deserve to be with the owner we've had for most of this past decade and like most of his franchises we will never be higher than this level all the while he's at the helm. Whatever you think of Wenger/Emery/Arteta, this cock is the constant and since he bought the club we've gone from regular CL participants to competing with Wolves and Sheffield United for a Europa League spot. If Kroenke continues then you might as well enjoy the Europa while it lasts, because there won't be any European football for a long time

An elite club has to have won the CL in my opinion, and that's not us. Ask anyone to name the elite clubs and they'll instantly rattle off Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Liverpool, Man United, AC Milan, Juventus. We are in the tier of clubs below that - big, not elite

If Kroenke stays we'll be on a par with Everton, West Ham and Newcastle - big in the minds of our fans and a laughing stock for everyone else.

Topside Northbank
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by Topside Northbank »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:52 am
We are at the level where we deserve to be with the owner we've had for most of this past decade and like most of his franchises we will never be higher than this level all the while he's at the helm. Whatever you think of Wenger/Emery/Arteta, this cock is the constant and since he bought the club we've gone from regular CL participants to competing with Wolves and Sheffield United for a Europa League spot. If Kroenke continues then you might as well enjoy the Europa while it lasts, because there won't be any European football for a long time

An elite club has to have won the CL in my opinion, and that's not us. Ask anyone to name the elite clubs and they'll instantly rattle off Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Liverpool, Man United, AC Milan, Juventus. We are in the tier of clubs below that - big, not elite

If Kroenke stays we'll be on a par with Everton, West Ham and Newcastle - big in the minds of our fans and a laughing stock for everyone else.
Agree with all that we are historically a big club and always will be,had the European Cup started in the 30's sure we would of won it a few times :D

The European ban hit us as we would of had a decent chance second crack at it under GG but yes if you ask about elite clubs the European Cup winning heavyweights are the obvious and you are right add in names like Ajax with their historic teams,Inter Milan and again Benfica who broke the Real Madrid stranglehold we are not in the elite group.

The biggest club NOT to win it probably alongside Atletico Madrid and a few others but with clubs like Man City around who I think will have the ban overturned and of course PSG,with our owners lack of investment it isn't realistic to expect much a crop of great young players come through our best bet,but then of course we would sell them on as it stands.

arrgee
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by arrgee »

Topside Northbank wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:56 am
The biggest club NOT to win it probably alongside Atletico Madrid and a few others but with clubs like Man City around who I think will have the ban overturned and of course PSG,with our owners lack of investment it isn't realistic to expect much a crop of great young players come through our best bet,but then of course we would sell them on as it stands.
Maybe, but the reality is Arsenal only ever looked capable of winning the cup twice. In 2004 and 2006. And that was with Vieira, Pires, Henry, Bergkamp et al. Arsenal have underachieved in Europe. Atlético Madrid have been in 3 finals and Valencia in a couple as well. Hard to see Arsenal making a challenge for the European Cup again.

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SteveO 35
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by SteveO 35 »

arrgee wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:52 pm
Topside Northbank wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:56 am
The biggest club NOT to win it probably alongside Atletico Madrid and a few others but with clubs like Man City around who I think will have the ban overturned and of course PSG,with our owners lack of investment it isn't realistic to expect much a crop of great young players come through our best bet,but then of course we would sell them on as it stands.
Maybe, but the reality is Arsenal only ever looked capable of winning the cup twice. In 2004 and 2006. And that was with Vieira, Pires, Henry, Bergkamp et al. Arsenal have underachieved in Europe. Atlético Madrid have been in 3 finals and Valencia in a couple as well. Hard to see Arsenal making a challenge for the European Cup again.
Exactly. Whichever way you look at it, our performances in Europe have been absolutely abysmal throughout our history. One 'Fairs Cup' 50 years ago, and one ECWC 26 years ago are not the achievements of an 'elite club'. I wouldn't mind so much if our history was cluttered with near misses but as you say, really only 2004 and 2006 offered true hope. 2004 will always be the real one that got away, as 2006 saw us punch above our weight in a season where we scraped 4th and were huge underdogs against Barcelona. In 2009 Man United with Ronaldo were a vastly superior team and proved it over the two legs

We are a bit like Rangers (barring the scumbag fans) - big domestically but with a very mediocre European record

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Nos89
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by Nos89 »

arrgee wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:52 pm
Topside Northbank wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:56 am
The biggest club NOT to win it probably alongside Atletico Madrid and a few others but with clubs like Man City around who I think will have the ban overturned and of course PSG,with our owners lack of investment it isn't realistic to expect much a crop of great young players come through our best bet,but then of course we would sell them on as it stands.
Maybe, but the reality is Arsenal only ever looked capable of winning the cup twice. In 2004 and 2006. And that was with Vieira, Pires, Henry, Bergkamp et al. Arsenal have underachieved in Europe. Atlético Madrid have been in 3 finals and Valencia in a couple as well. Hard to see Arsenal making a challenge for the European Cup again.
I'd say we had a team between 89-92 that could've won it had they had the experience of european football, and the team between 1998-2000 were capable had they not played at wembley. There is no way Barcelona or Fiorentina would have beaten that team at Highbury, as they did at Wembley.A massive mistake by the club which saw players like anelka, overmars and petit leave us too early.

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SteveO 35
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by SteveO 35 »

The elite club who sacked a manager for finishing 5th, being 7th, but happy with the “improvement” of 9th

The best summation of Kroenke’s version of an elite club I could think of !!

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DB10GOONER
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by DB10GOONER »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:42 pm
The elite club who sacked a manager for finishing 5th, being 7th, but happy with the “improvement” of 9th

The best summation of Kroenke’s version of an elite club I could think of !!
Yeah but in the real world he wasn't sacked for finishing 5th. He was sacked for throwing away a piss easy run in and getting humiliated in a cup final. A bit of realism please.

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SteveO 35
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by SteveO 35 »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:34 pm
SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:42 pm
The elite club who sacked a manager for finishing 5th, being 7th, but happy with the “improvement” of 9th

The best summation of Kroenke’s version of an elite club I could think of !!
Yeah but in the real world he wasn't sacked for finishing 5th. He was sacked for throwing away a piss easy run in and getting humiliated in a cup final. A bit of realism please.
We were humiliated by Eden Hazard and Ainsley Maitland Niles being forced into playing right back again. As for an easy run in, if we went back through the last 10 years of Wenger I remember all those supposed easy run ins. The reality is that he was given 16 months of football management to oversee a decade of decline and all those who celebrated his sacking are now starting to see just what a monumental task that was. Finishing 5th and being disappointed - remind me what that feels like at any point under Arteta's reign or ever again before Kroenke fucks off

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DB10GOONER
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by DB10GOONER »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:42 pm
DB10GOONER wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:34 pm
SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:42 pm
The elite club who sacked a manager for finishing 5th, being 7th, but happy with the “improvement” of 9th

The best summation of Kroenke’s version of an elite club I could think of !!
Yeah but in the real world he wasn't sacked for finishing 5th. He was sacked for throwing away a piss easy run in and getting humiliated in a cup final. A bit of realism please.
We were humiliated by Eden Hazard and Ainsley Maitland Niles being forced into playing right back again. As for an easy run in, if we went back through the last 10 years of Wenger I remember all those supposed easy run ins. The reality is that he was given 16 months of football management to oversee a decade of decline and all those who celebrated his sacking are now starting to see just what a monumental task that was. Finishing 5th and being disappointed - remind me what that feels like at any point under Arteta's reign or ever again before Kroenke fucks off
Oh ffs who celebrated his sacking? Who? All I read was people saying it was a shame but he had to go.

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SteveO 35
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by SteveO 35 »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:50 pm
SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:42 pm
DB10GOONER wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:34 pm
SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:42 pm
The elite club who sacked a manager for finishing 5th, being 7th, but happy with the “improvement” of 9th

The best summation of Kroenke’s version of an elite club I could think of !!
Yeah but in the real world he wasn't sacked for finishing 5th. He was sacked for throwing away a piss easy run in and getting humiliated in a cup final. A bit of realism please.
We were humiliated by Eden Hazard and Ainsley Maitland Niles being forced into playing right back again. As for an easy run in, if we went back through the last 10 years of Wenger I remember all those supposed easy run ins. The reality is that he was given 16 months of football management to oversee a decade of decline and all those who celebrated his sacking are now starting to see just what a monumental task that was. Finishing 5th and being disappointed - remind me what that feels like at any point under Arteta's reign or ever again before Kroenke fucks off
Oh ffs who celebrated his sacking? Who? All I read was people saying it was a shame but he had to go.
Seriously??? How about those mocking the Spanish waiter? I'm sure Rodders would openly admit he was delighted when he got the boot. I can't recall many saying they thought it was the wrong call

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DB10GOONER
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by DB10GOONER »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:55 pm
DB10GOONER wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:50 pm
SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:42 pm
DB10GOONER wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:34 pm
SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:42 pm
The elite club who sacked a manager for finishing 5th, being 7th, but happy with the “improvement” of 9th

The best summation of Kroenke’s version of an elite club I could think of !!
Yeah but in the real world he wasn't sacked for finishing 5th. He was sacked for throwing away a piss easy run in and getting humiliated in a cup final. A bit of realism please.
We were humiliated by Eden Hazard and Ainsley Maitland Niles being forced into playing right back again. As for an easy run in, if we went back through the last 10 years of Wenger I remember all those supposed easy run ins. The reality is that he was given 16 months of football management to oversee a decade of decline and all those who celebrated his sacking are now starting to see just what a monumental task that was. Finishing 5th and being disappointed - remind me what that feels like at any point under Arteta's reign or ever again before Kroenke fucks off
Oh ffs who celebrated his sacking? Who? All I read was people saying it was a shame but he had to go.
Seriously??? How about those mocking the Spanish waiter? I'm sure Rodders would openly admit he was delighted when he got the boot. I can't recall many saying they thought it was the wrong call
So that's um one.... rodders. Also you seem to be mixing up agreeing with his sacking and celebrating it. I agreed 100% with his sacking but I was sad to see it happen. I certainly didn't celebrate it. He was likeable and I wanted him to succeed the way I want ALL Arsenal managers to succeed.

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SteveO 35
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by SteveO 35 »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:58 pm
SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:55 pm
DB10GOONER wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:50 pm
SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:42 pm
DB10GOONER wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:34 pm


Yeah but in the real world he wasn't sacked for finishing 5th. He was sacked for throwing away a piss easy run in and getting humiliated in a cup final. A bit of realism please.
We were humiliated by Eden Hazard and Ainsley Maitland Niles being forced into playing right back again. As for an easy run in, if we went back through the last 10 years of Wenger I remember all those supposed easy run ins. The reality is that he was given 16 months of football management to oversee a decade of decline and all those who celebrated his sacking are now starting to see just what a monumental task that was. Finishing 5th and being disappointed - remind me what that feels like at any point under Arteta's reign or ever again before Kroenke fucks off
Oh ffs who celebrated his sacking? Who? All I read was people saying it was a shame but he had to go.
Seriously??? How about those mocking the Spanish waiter? I'm sure Rodders would openly admit he was delighted when he got the boot. I can't recall many saying they thought it was the wrong call
So that's um one.... rodders. Also you seem to be mixing up agreeing with his sacking and celebrating it. I agreed 100% with his sacking but I was sad to see it happen. I certainly didn't celebrate it. He was likeable and I wanted him to succeed the way I want ALL Arsenal managers to succeed.
Rodders and Sid from memory...jesus, do you really want me to go back and repost all those who took great delight in it. Just about every single one of those helmets too on AFTV who disgracefully were chanting "what do you think of Emery? Shit"

A long list believe me and all for what. Poor Freddie being asked to do 2 jobs for a month or so thrown to the wolves, and a bloke with no managerial experience

If Emery had been fired and in wandered Allegri I might have got the cause for celebration....I might even have joined the party....but we celebrated firing an excellent coach with no answers and placing faith in fucking Stan and Josh Kroenke

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DB10GOONER
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by DB10GOONER »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:04 pm
DB10GOONER wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:58 pm
SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:55 pm
DB10GOONER wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:50 pm
SteveO 35 wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:42 pm


We were humiliated by Eden Hazard and Ainsley Maitland Niles being forced into playing right back again. As for an easy run in, if we went back through the last 10 years of Wenger I remember all those supposed easy run ins. The reality is that he was given 16 months of football management to oversee a decade of decline and all those who celebrated his sacking are now starting to see just what a monumental task that was. Finishing 5th and being disappointed - remind me what that feels like at any point under Arteta's reign or ever again before Kroenke fucks off
Oh ffs who celebrated his sacking? Who? All I read was people saying it was a shame but he had to go.
Seriously??? How about those mocking the Spanish waiter? I'm sure Rodders would openly admit he was delighted when he got the boot. I can't recall many saying they thought it was the wrong call
So that's um one.... rodders. Also you seem to be mixing up agreeing with his sacking and celebrating it. I agreed 100% with his sacking but I was sad to see it happen. I certainly didn't celebrate it. He was likeable and I wanted him to succeed the way I want ALL Arsenal managers to succeed.
Rodders and Sid from memory...jesus, do you really want me to go back and repost all those who took great delight in it. Just about every single one of those helmets too on AFTV who disgracefully were chanting "what do you think of Emery? Shit"

A long list believe me and all for what. Poor Freddie being asked to do 2 jobs for a month or so thrown to the wolves, and a bloke with no managerial experience

If Emery had been fired and in wandered Allegri I might have got the cause for celebration....I might even have joined the party....but we celebrated firing an excellent coach with no answers and placing faith in fucking Stan and Josh Kroenke
AFTV? You can't seriously be throwing those morons into this discussion mate?

I should also state again I didn't want Arteta either. I wanted Allegri or Simeone. No guarantee they'd have been successful either of course but at least they would have been bringing huge experience with them.

Jock Gooner
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by Jock Gooner »

I'm beginning to suspect that Unai has somehow managed to hack into an account on here :lol:

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wibble
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Re: Arsenal are still an elite club

Post by wibble »

Jock Gooner wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:16 pm
I'm beginning to suspect that Unai has somehow managed to hack into an account on here :lol:
:D

Him and Sean Dyche!

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