Sing ‘You’ll Never Walk Alone’ on Sunday! (4/5)

[stearmaster]

[MK Gould]

Ok, I think we've got the message. If anyone near me starts singing YNWA I'll immediately call a steward - especially if they're standing up! But get a fucking grip the lot of you! We weren't suggesting wearing Liverpool shirts or chanting "United" (although I have to apologise as I did suggest this on another thread...).

Sussex - you sound like you in need of a good shag! You are so up tight! The 70's/80's saw Spuds & West Ham take the North Bank. F*ck even Palace had a go one season (remember how we got our own back the following year ! It saw us take less than 400 fans to a match at Everton on a friday night, & 16000 for a pre-christmas home game v Norwich. Yes - we knew wot it meant to be a gooner - it meant supporting a shit team who were despised by everyone else & who never won anything. Don't get me wrong - I loved it!!! We also had players in the first team who were only marginally better than my pub team. And as for fanzines.... please don't tell me you are talking about Gunflash?? Just about the only thing I agree with you on is that we should give Cashley some serious abuse tomorrow. Forgive him? LIKE FUCK!!!!

[sussex]

Wake up mate, football USED to be a lot more than just over paid players. It was a culture, a movement, something that brought the masses together. Now it is just full of twats who may as well just stay at home and watch it on television. If you ONLY go to watch a game of football, you may as well stay at home.

No idea what you are talking about on the fanzine front. They are all shit now, not what fanzines USED to be about.

The game has changed, and in my opinion and most of those that used to go back when we were shit (who cares its not only about winning) agree it has changed for the worse. Fact.

[MK Gould]

I agree that some bits (many bits) have changed for the worse, but some of what you are looking for you only get in the lower leagues now. Arsenal are, for the first time in my life, genuinely competing with the Man Utd's & Barca's of this world. That will attract the prawn sandwich brigade, & will also attract kids from Exeter, Bradford & Bejing. In truth, we need them as much as we need me & you. I hope & pray that the club doesn't forget to look after those who will still be there when we have a few lean years. But in the meantime please don't slag off those who are keeping us up there. Educate them, but don't slag them off! Unless you'd prefer to go 18 years again without winning the Premiership. And take off those rose tinted glasses. Standing at Euston buying tickets for a football special from those two women in red. Staying away from the windows when the bricks were thrown. Getting your scarf nicked by Millwall. Peeing in a toilet with no roof at Birmingham. Hillsborough, Heisel, Bradford City. Saying "But we were happy then..." is like the monty python sketch "What have the Romans done for us....".

[sussex]

That entire last section you posted is EXACTLY what I enjoyed about football. As I said, winning isn't everything. History, integrity, not pricing out your local fan base. They are things I find far more important that sustaining a new car for each day of the week for some kid who is LUCKY enough to have natural talent and then driven enough to be able to make the most of it.

The new fans? Well, if they think singing You'll Never Walk Alone is part of it all, then I would rather do without thanks. And if that means to the detriment of our team on the pitch, so be it.

I found the camaraderie far more enjoyable watching in the pissing down rain, getting wet (when there wasn't a roof), with only 20K or less other dedicated individuals than those just jumping on the bandwagon over the last decade or so. You only have to look at that self opinionated, jumped up yank bird in the ******* to see what they bring to the club. Nothing good that's for sure.

[MK Gould]

There is so much of what you say that I agree with. As a kid, I paid on the gate & if Arsenal were away I'd go along to Upton park or WHL with mates who supported them. No big financial decision - even though my only income was a paper round. I've only been thrown out once - and bumped into someone I knew who paid for me to get back in! And that way you learned the ropes & progressed up the football supporting heirachy. For me that was schoolboys enclosure in front of the east stand, to the back of the north bank then to the sides, & then to the clock end. Nowadays my kids only go to football if I take them & they have to sit in a family enclosure along with the wrinklies. You can't move to where the noise is. You're just stuck there all season long. And you can't take it for granted that someone wearing an Arsenal shirt will know who we're playing at the weekend (that really bugs me!!). But one day the bubble will burst. The hummers & porches will disappear in a puff of smoke, along with the corporate hospitality. Then maybe they'll be a chance to return football to the masses. But I won't miss standing in the rain (maybe thats just age though - the kids would probably love it!).

[Cus Geezer]

maybe because of the Johnny Come Latelys who don't have much of a clue about being a football fan. All the 'who are ya' and 'easy! easy!' plus the embarassing "who?!" when the opposition make a sub are simply cringeworthy.

But then again the North Bank of the 80s used to sing 'who the fucking hell are you' when the opposition used to run out every saturday without fail.

[Cus Geezer]

The 70s 80s in particular may not have been the most enjoyable period for us on the pitch, but at least we had leading fanzines

I thought that fanzines and the Gooner came in the late 80s?

From what I remember that was one of the most enjoyable peroids for us on the pitch.

[Cus Geezer]

Standing at Euston buying tickets for a football special from those two women in red. Staying away from the windows when the bricks were thrown. Getting your scarf nicked by Millwall. Peeing in a toilet with no roof at Birmingham. Hillsborough, Heisel, Bradford City. Saying "But we were happy then..." is like the monty python sketch "What have the Romans done for us....".

Well yes but when you ever bathed your young children did you ever throw them out with the bathwater?

That HAS happened to football in the last 15 years.

Personally I think a lot of the 'bad old days' are talked up a lot anyway, if they ever really applied to Highbury. I went to my first game as a 7 year old six months after Heysel and I've never felt threatened at an Arsenal match, not even against Millwall in 1988, it wasn't an uncommon sight to see women on the North Bank either.

Surely the fact we never felt the need to erect fencing at Highbury backs this up.

Considering it wasn't a great mission to get into Highbury back then and that we had a reasonably successful side, and the fact they couldn't compete with the Barcas and Milans of this world was due to the Euro ban, after weighing up the pros and cons I'd take the late 80s Arsenal experience over today.

[Cus Geezer]

We should leave Ashley alone. He decided to leave and that is his orerogative. And he served the club well when he was there.

In fact we should thank him as his leaving ushered in Clichy who is much better than Ashley at this stage ofhis career!

Its also our 'orerogative' to inform him how disappointed we are in his treatment of Arsenal Football Club.

I'm sure he knows how we feel, its like driving a car and being told your going to get £5k a week less than you wanted. Personally I think you shouldn't be on the phone while driving, but rumour has it that's far from the most dangerous thing he's ever done with a mobile.

[tenementfunster5]

ripping the piss out of that lot in any way possible should be welcomed. It's just a way of letting them know they got fuck all from their millions and millions of roubles.

[MK Gould]

If people in Liverpool are looking for camaraderie then they should head to Tranmere. In Machester you'd maybe go to Stockport & in London, Orient or maybe Spuds i.e. one of the small teams who are going nowhere fast. All the truly big teams attract support from outside their normal catchment area. Also - did no-one notice that the Upper Tiers & Boxes at Highbury didn't exactly rock, so why is anyone surprised that the Upper & Club level at the Grove have a similar reputation. The only pity is that these areas make up well over half of the 60000 capacity! Too late now of course but a better design would have seen club level slightly higher so as to increase the size of the lower tier - or maybe two rows of club level at the sides and none behind the goals!

Also - when I said 70's/80's I was referring primarily to the 10 years between 1975 & 1985 - when I hardly missed a game. At this time (esp late 70's) there was trouble at EVERY match. Highbury was no different. Away fans were kept in the middle of the clock end - with no roof at the time - & segregation was a line of police. Following them back to a mainline station was a sport! I actually thought it was fun at the time but think today is 100 times better - despite the prices & lessening of atmosphere.

[gooner.ed]

noticed a couple of rounds of 'liverpool, liverpool' at the game on sunday. any difference getween that and YNWA? think that those who thought the idea smacked have to remember that it wasn't a pro-liverpool but anti-chavski one. i'll be backing milan to win in athens, although i was well up for the scousers in the semi.

as for the website posting the idea - it's a broad church. we don't agree with everything we post (hence contradictory arguments), although i have said before it would have been a laugh to hear YNWA on sunday. nothing more than that. some people take this stuff more seriously than others. i don't agree with the principle of a monarchy, but will be recording a version of 'god save our gooner queen' for the first gooner podcast. why? it's a laugh.

[MK Gould]

There have been many time in the past when other teams have sung our name to wind up, normally, Man Utd! I thought it was funny, and didn't take it as support for us at the time, so hopefully no-one thinks we've all become closet scousers now. If you are confident of your own Arsenaluality then you can do these things without fear!

And, yes, I did join in with the "Liverpool" chants on Sunday!