The SFA are claiming that the reason that their players did not wear the "Poppy Armbands" is that the Velcro wasn't up to it!!!
My sources in Glasgow,(ie: a couple of Uncles),have heard a different reason.
Apparently,one version doing the rounds up there,is that some players,for political reasons,refused to wear them,so it was deemed better to have NO players wearing them,than some of them.
Either way,what a fucking disgrace!!!
Wardrobe malfunction!!!
-
Rugby Gooner
- Posts: 3414
- Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:25 pm
- Location: Rugby
-
Barriecuda
- Posts: 2651
- Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:39 am
- Location: Canada
- Contact:
This nonsense about the poppy being "pro-war" or "political" is absolute shit. Are you standing here today, free of an overbearing police state interfering with your life? Yes? Are you scared that tomorrow you're going to have to go to a muddy, freezing, wet, disease-filled hole in the ground and kill-or-be-killed? No? Then shut the fuck up and appreciate the people who died so you can live your comfy life. End of.
-
Bergkamp-Genius
- Posts: 1774
- Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:19 pm
-
SWLGooner
- Posts: 10483
- Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:58 pm
- Location: Islington Town Hall, applauding the fourth place trophy.
+1Barriecuda wrote:This nonsense about the poppy being "pro-war" or "political" is absolute shit. Are you standing here today, free of an overbearing police state interfering with your life? Yes? Are you scared that tomorrow you're going to have to go to a muddy, freezing, wet, disease-filled hole in the ground and kill-or-be-killed? No? Then shut the fuck up and appreciate the people who died so you can live your comfy life. End of.
-
Barriecuda
- Posts: 2651
- Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:39 am
- Location: Canada
- Contact:
I would never force someone to wear a poppy. That'd fly in the face of the freedom's that were largely won. But I do expect someone to wear one, because I think it's an incredibly simple request to honor a stranger's ultimate sacrifice. Nothing "jingo" about it.Bergkamp-Genius wrote:Not end of at all...If someone chooses not to wear a poppy it's up to them, they certainly shouldn't be forced to wear one because someone else wants to...
The jingoistic shite you have just came out with says it all really why some would choose not to wear one...
If you think poppies are just a sign of the Commonwealth strutting about because they "won" World War 2, appreciate that the lives lost by ALL men, women, and children of ALL the world, in ANY conflict, all have contribute to demonstrating how futile, tragic, and destructive war is, and represent why we should strive to avoid it at all costs. An act of Remembrance isn't simply for "our" people. It's for all those lost in the horrors of what we seek to avoid to be spared their same fate.
Whilst I support the wearing of the poppy, and do so wear one myself, I can see where these players are coming from if it is true that they did refuse.
If I'm not wrong, the poppy was originally in memory of those who died fighting for our country in the Great War and WWII. However, it now also extends to those people who died fighting for Britain in other wars: Gulf War, Afghanistan etc.
The thing is, if it extends to all British personnel in all wars, it can mean it also extends to those who fought AGAINST Scotland. We in England might not see it, but a Scotsman may well be loathe to wear a poppy in commemoration of those from the British Army since that same Army committed terrible acts in their country. Look at the Highland Clearances. The Battle of Culloden. The history of Britain is not as linear as we often assume.
Same goes for the Irish and those Scotsman who may have Irish ancestry - who probably would have emigrated to Scotland through desperate necessity. It can be argued that the British Army has hardly ever been a benevolent force in Ireland through most of history.
Politics should not enter into it, I agree. However, the fact that the poppies come from the Royal British Legion DOES politicise it in the eyes of some. The 'Royal' and 'British' is the giveaway. We in England have been fortunate enough to weather all invasions since 1066. We do not have a culture of our own occupation in our history. Other countries are not so fortunate.
I must be clear that I am not commending these players for refusing to wear the poppy. As I said, I willingly participate in memorial services. My grandfather served in WWII and, although I never met him, my great uncle from Cork (who willingly joined a foreign army to do his 'bit'!) perished in the RAF in 1944.
When I have children I will absolutely impress on them the importance of the sacrifice of those who defended us.
I can however see why some people may wish not to wear one. History can stir up powerful emotions. We can even see it by the upset that this thread is causing.
I hope this is a measured response. I've tried not to seem too biased either way.
If I'm not wrong, the poppy was originally in memory of those who died fighting for our country in the Great War and WWII. However, it now also extends to those people who died fighting for Britain in other wars: Gulf War, Afghanistan etc.
The thing is, if it extends to all British personnel in all wars, it can mean it also extends to those who fought AGAINST Scotland. We in England might not see it, but a Scotsman may well be loathe to wear a poppy in commemoration of those from the British Army since that same Army committed terrible acts in their country. Look at the Highland Clearances. The Battle of Culloden. The history of Britain is not as linear as we often assume.
Same goes for the Irish and those Scotsman who may have Irish ancestry - who probably would have emigrated to Scotland through desperate necessity. It can be argued that the British Army has hardly ever been a benevolent force in Ireland through most of history.
Politics should not enter into it, I agree. However, the fact that the poppies come from the Royal British Legion DOES politicise it in the eyes of some. The 'Royal' and 'British' is the giveaway. We in England have been fortunate enough to weather all invasions since 1066. We do not have a culture of our own occupation in our history. Other countries are not so fortunate.
I must be clear that I am not commending these players for refusing to wear the poppy. As I said, I willingly participate in memorial services. My grandfather served in WWII and, although I never met him, my great uncle from Cork (who willingly joined a foreign army to do his 'bit'!) perished in the RAF in 1944.
When I have children I will absolutely impress on them the importance of the sacrifice of those who defended us.
I can however see why some people may wish not to wear one. History can stir up powerful emotions. We can even see it by the upset that this thread is causing.
I hope this is a measured response. I've tried not to seem too biased either way.
-
storrmin571
- Posts: 3304
- Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:10 pm
- Location: PONTYPANDY FIRE STATION
+3Barriecuda wrote:This nonsense about the poppy being "pro-war" or "political" is absolute shit. Are you standing here today, free of an overbearing police state interfering with your life? Yes? Are you scared that tomorrow you're going to have to go to a muddy, freezing, wet, disease-filled hole in the ground and kill-or-be-killed? No? Then shut the fuck up and appreciate the people who died so you can live your comfy life. End of.
-
arseofacrow
- Posts: 6173
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:06 pm
- Location: Cologne
arseofacrow wrote:Lyus - That;'s quite a leap you're making there.
And when I say quite a leap, I mean, a big, giant, world, record fucking breaking leap...
I mean seriously man, seriously.
Although I mean, these feelings have to have come from somewhere. Passed down from family, etc. One generation can't have just decided to suddenly hate Britain for no reason, surely? I was just sort of speculating but it probably came across as like an A-level argument essay.
-
highburyJD
- Posts: 4982
- Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:36 pm
- Location: Highbury
maybe we should criminalise failing to wear poppies
what a pathetic load of knee jerk right wing naive shite this thread is...
Poppies are a symbol of British military - its impossible to depoliticise that
the fact that Britain massively fucks her ex-servicemen (approx 30% of our homeless) yet people get upset about annual flower wearing clearly shows how easily the mug British public are distracted by sleight of hand PR bullshit
what a pathetic load of knee jerk right wing naive shite this thread is...
Poppies are a symbol of British military - its impossible to depoliticise that
the fact that Britain massively fucks her ex-servicemen (approx 30% of our homeless) yet people get upset about annual flower wearing clearly shows how easily the mug British public are distracted by sleight of hand PR bullshit
-
Rugby Gooner
- Posts: 3414
- Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:25 pm
- Location: Rugby
I didn't start this thread because I am "Right Wing" ,in fact my politics are pretty Left Wing,( I was even involved with The Militant Tendency,CND,ANC,FOE etc).highburyJD wrote:maybe we should criminalise failing to wear poppies
what a pathetic load of knee jerk right wing naive shite this thread is...
Poppies are a symbol of British military - its impossible to depoliticise that
the fact that Britain massively fucks her ex-servicemen (approx 30% of our homeless) yet people get upset about annual flower wearing clearly shows how easily the mug British public are distracted by sleight of hand PR bullshit
I merely wanted to highlight that the "reason" given by the SFA for theit team not wearing those armbands,(ie: That the velcro didn't work),is being questioned,as other reasons are emerging.
Of course,the wearing of the Poppy should be an individual choice,that right to choose is one of the main reasons so many fought and died.
-
highburyJD
- Posts: 4982
- Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:36 pm
- Location: Highbury
hmm
I think the reasons that Brits have fought and fight 'for their country'
are likely to be very similar to the reasons all soldiers fight (including WWI and WWII Germans and fighters of all the other nations we have had wars with):
patriotism/buying propaganda/being drafted/lack of other financial opportunity/natural aptitude for taking orders unquestioningly/military family history or role model
there is one reason that hasn't inspired a single British soldier to fight ever
and thats repelling invaders from their homeland
we have on the other hand been the ones doing the invading many many times
by the way sorry rugbygunner for the implication - I was wrong,
its some of the responses in the thread that I thought were unthinking not the thread itself
I think the reasons that Brits have fought and fight 'for their country'
are likely to be very similar to the reasons all soldiers fight (including WWI and WWII Germans and fighters of all the other nations we have had wars with):
patriotism/buying propaganda/being drafted/lack of other financial opportunity/natural aptitude for taking orders unquestioningly/military family history or role model
there is one reason that hasn't inspired a single British soldier to fight ever
and thats repelling invaders from their homeland
we have on the other hand been the ones doing the invading many many times
by the way sorry rugbygunner for the implication - I was wrong,
its some of the responses in the thread that I thought were unthinking not the thread itself
-
Barriecuda
- Posts: 2651
- Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:39 am
- Location: Canada
- Contact:
Jesus mate, I almost choked when I read that. You realize that's the most ridiculous thing you've ever said right?highburyJD wrote:there is one reason that hasn't inspired a single British soldier to fight ever
and thats repelling invaders from their homeland
Cuz there's this one minor thing called the Battle of Britain...
