Following Arsenal in the early 80`s

[DB10GOONER]

Yeah.

Anyway, I'm moving this to the basement as we aren't a hooligan forum.

[LeftfootlegendGooner]

Yeah.

Anyway, I'm moving this to the basement as we aren't a hooligan forum.

Think your underestimating yourself a bit mate, you Ewoks gave those storm troopers a right pwapa pasting, claret and fur all over the place innit

[DB10GOONER]

Yeah.

Anyway, I'm moving this to the basement as we aren't a hooligan forum.

Think your underestimating yourself a bit mate, you Ewoks gave those storm troopers a right pwapa pasting, claret and fur all over the place innit

yep - we faaaarrrckin ran em all over the manor. Shame you Hobbit/Dwarf Hybrids didn't show up mob-handed like you promised!!

[Herd]

Im happy to be in the basement I try never to glorify such things they are in the past and thats where they belong .

However few things

800 Herd ???? Your having a giraffe !
One of the problems in our early days was the distinct lack of numbers ,30 here 40 there ,Only for a massive match could we raise 300 .
What started as a problem worked for us in the end ,firstly every other mob thought we could be easily turned over because of age and size ,secondly u get to know people very well and when theres no place to hide u find out a lot about yourself.

Cass Pennant
Big Man made himself some coin but is a grass !
West Ham ICF were the worst Bullies in the Book !
Ive mentioned a story u wont find in his books when he used soemone elses kid as a human shield ............blade weilding coward !

Bill G is West Ham not Spurs !
He's older than me an a lot uglier but was indeed the leader of West Ham , Iremember his permed hair and his famous introduction line " I'm Bill Gardner who wants it"

We have never wanted to do a book for many reasons ,the Bear was offerred coin to do one as was I ,it isnt worth it !
U make about 35/50,000 pounds and u have to put it all in there names and all ,that grassing !

We know what happened and when it happened .

Somone mentioned Winterslag away ,Now that was a fun evening !
Was anyone in the bar in the ground when one of ours fell clean through the window ?
Free beers and entrance to the ground not to mention new kickers !

[HighburyPaddy81]

I don't think anybody is glorifying it. In fact, you'd probably be a bit stupid to take part in any serious aggro nowadays, I've heard of someone who got a six year ban for throwing a bottle. Although I'm still slightly intrigued by the clobber element, who's wearing what and what looks good.

A book would be a great read for younger lads like myself (my first game 1988), who never really got to experience much of the 1980s terrace culture. Although if it ultimately meant grassing up, it's probably best to leave it out, and you deserve a lot of respect for not doing it.

All the stories I've heard from the 1980s, may be slightly inaccurate as I wasn't there, I was a kid at the time. I was going to share a load more stories, although I think I might just leave it here.

You're right, Gardner was West Ham, I remember being told that story previously mentioned, but couldn't remember if it was about West Ham or Tottenham (I corrected the mistake).

I haven't got around to reading Cass' book, I've watched the film and I can't help but feel that it's extremely biased.

I came across the book on Millwall's mob the other day, “No one likes us, we don't care” - they've dedicated two chapters to other mobs. One for West Ham and the other for The Arsenal. Here it is.

http://books.google.ie/books?id=LacCAgA ... rn&f=false

Although he forgets to mention a few things, (I won't go into much detail as we'll be here forever if I do) such as the FA Cup game in 1988, the fighting that spilt out onto the pitch and then the surrounding streets thereafter (causing some local stores to lock their doors, leaving customers locked inside). Arsenal were outnumbered that day, but still ended the day on top.
I've also heard of trouble outside the Tavern (I think) before a game between the Youths at Highbury circa 1991. The Arsenal were prepared that day. I think Arsenal had the East Upper and Millwall were in the centre of the Clockend, during the game.
I've also been told of a small bit of trouble before both of the Youth cup final legs, circa 1994.
And a certain clash which took place outside London isn't mentioned in the chapter either, (which is mentioned in the below video between 2:56 and 3:38).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzH6KSiJYnM

I recall seeing a lot of pavement dancing after they had won 2-0 at Highbury in 1995. But it didn't matter how game either mob were, the Old Bill had given them a massive escort.
As mentioned in the book, the real trouble that year came after the first leg.
I suppose the escorts we were given on route to the Den, during Millwall's short stay in the top tier (1988-1990), were massive, and the Old Bill presence at those Arsenal games at the Den was massive in comparison to their presence, at any other Arsenal game during that period. Hardly a surprise really after the "Battle of Highbury" in January 1988.

[HighburyPaddy81]

Moving away from the mobs, at the moment I'm reading a book called "Lions, Black skins and Reggae Gyals"

I thought I'd share this particular extract, it's a Tony Witter quote, regarding our 0-0 draw at the Den in 1995:


"Nigel Winterburn played a ball down the line and Ian Wright was just over the half way line, he tried to turn against me and I tackled him and put the ball out of play. He’s gone to get the ball, it’s just rolling on the track and he’s gone to pick it up. The amount of racist abuse that came from the Millwall fans in the lower stand was incredible: ‘black this, black that,’ monkey chants and the rest. Basically, I am standing not more 5 feet away from Ian. I sort of looked at them, looked at Ian and Ian shrugged his shoulders. Then I hear this voice from the crowd - "Not you Tone, you’re all right - it’s Wrighty.
I think they just see a blue shirt when they look at me. But with Ian Wright they see a red shirt, then they see a black face. But do they not see my colour? Do I wear this shirt over my head?"

I think Millwall were racist when they wanted to be. It depended on the situation really. Let's not forget two of their top lads were black, Ian Garwood (Tiny) and Trevor Little.
Mind you, you certainly won't find anything about that incident in that "No one likes us, we don't care" book.
Nor will you see anything about Wrighty getting pelted with coins by their lot at Highbury in 1992 during a League cup game, or Winterburn being pelted by coins at the Den just 2 weeks later.

In my opinion Millwall weren't full time racists, unlike Chelsea, who certainly were.

The far-right "Bulldog" magazine ran this "racist league" bollocks throughout the early 1980s, and Chelsea topped this ''Racist League'' year after year, year in year out.

Nobody ever bettered Chelsea (according to the paper). I have a print-out.
In this print-out Millwall come in at a distant 6th, West Ham are 2nd, whereas Tottenham are 8th. No other London side got a mention (only shows the top ten).

Just look at their (Chelsea) fanzine that prints/printed league tables of the clubs best players and top goal-scorers, but purposely omitted black players from their lists. That tells you enough.
Some of their fans would boycott games if a black player (usually Canoville) was expected to play for them (only 25 odd years ago so those *word censored* would still be Chelsea supporters).
Look at what happened when Paul Canoville went to warm up at the Bridge, he had bananas thrown at him by his own fans who were heard roaring ''Fuck off you n*****, Fuck off you black c*nt'' and then they simultaneously started chanting ''We don't want a n****r, we dont want a n****r la la la la''

Or during a game against us when the entire Shed started chanting ''Get the n****r off the pitch''
The chant was directed at Chris Whyte and was also later directed at Paul Davis.

Although Chelsea did have one black fan in the early 1970s/ late 1960s he soon decided to give up as the fans had a dedicated song for him :
“Oh Crombie Ron is colourful, Oh Crombie Ron is colourful. He’s a c**n, he’s a w**, he’s a n****r. Oh Crombie Ron is colourful.”


http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editor ... terraces-a
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... ville.html

Even nowadays it's still there, what with captain John Terry calling Ferdinand a black c*nt, and Chelsea fans singing ''Anton Ferdinand you know what you are'' along with ''John Terry's racist army."

Denton and co chased National Front recruiters off the Highbury terraces and was credited for the failure of the movement to infiltrate the Arsenal firm in the late 1970s. The NF managed to gain a foothold within just about every London mob bar Arsenals. Denton made sure of this.

I edited out certain racist words. I know the OP is quoting but we still can't let these words on here - DB10GOONER

[LeftfootlegendGooner]

Let.it.go.

[MFC SE16]

Millwall fan here.

Someone posted a link to this thread on one of our boards and I must say, it was a brilliant read.

Someone says somewhere on here that only those who don't know anything about what happened in the 70s and 80s underestimate how useful Arsenal were. That is true.

I'm sure some, if not most, on here will agree that it is such a shame what has happened to Arsenal off the pitch over the last 15 years. Used to be a proper fan base but, even as a supporter of another team, heart breaking to see all the johnny come latelys from the home counties and tourists with cameras now in the majority over there. I also hate the way that people who would have been frightened to go to a 2nd match in the 1980s now use the term "gooner". Someone needs to have a word with them.

Anyway, big respect to the old Arsenal lads on here and any long-term scarfers. For anyone who jumped on the bandwagon read this thread and weep.

[QuartzGooner]

the johnny come latelys from the home counties and tourists with cameras now in the majority over there.

As someone who has been going to games since the late 70's, it is nowhere near the majority at games that are tourists or JCLs, that is a media myth.

There are more Home Counties based fans than 20 years ago, but that is as much to do with population movements out of London and into parts of South Hertfordshire as families can no longer afford a three bed semi in London.

And the cameras thing is surely as much to do with people now having mobile phones with cameras and the "Selfie" Culture in people's lives in general as anything else?

There are more overseas fans than before for sure, I have seen a coachload of Japanese fans bussed in right to the stadium entrance, which would not have happened in the 1980's, well not that I ever saw.

But even going back 30 years we had a regular visiting Scandanavian support at games, and have had fans from minority communities going back to the 1920s.

And we had our blazer wearing thermos carrying "Highbury in the winter, Lord's in the summer" old boys in the East stand at Highbury. Part of the fabric of our support.

Most fans at the ground continue to be the same as they have been for years.

[StuartL]

Think our change of ground, coupled with the ever increasing cost of tickets has helped in alienating a proportion of our previous hard-core support.

Our once proud club, used to be quite good at looking after their supporters but now are far more concerned with "matchday experience loving customers" not fans. They will lap up the clubs bullshit, purchase crap from the megastore and will leave 5 mins from the end to be home in time for whatever is on tv as they are not passionate about the club.

Some of our original support will never stop going, others will prefer to remember the good old days (along with the bad ones too) and be content to watch on tv or on streams without the financial outlay.

[MFC SE16]

I was thinking about this thread when I saw this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... Ybr14A#t=0

Really felt embarrassed for the real Arsenal fans I know and knew and wish some of you older lot would do something to rid your club of this sort of "fan"... I know my club aren't perfect but we wouldn't allow this to happen down The Den especially the amount of gloryhunters from non-Arsenal families who have latched onto you since it became law for them types to only support a top 4 side, preferably Arsenal.

[gp543]

Just started Steaming In by Colin Ward. Really fascinating stuff, helps me appreciate the Arsenal before I sullied the earth with my presence.

[Redarmy]

Wrote this for a mate months ago who wanted to know what it was like following football teams in the early 80`s as he had heard there was lots of crowd trouble back then. Actually this would have been a fairly normal day out for a working class teenager following Arsenal in the early 80`s, quiet simply that was the way it was back then.

It was Luton V Arsenal and being a Arsenal Fan living in Watford I had two Options, either go down to London and travel backup with the crew or hop across to StAlbans and attempt to meet them on route, I took the second option. I got on the train and was informed by two Arsenal fans that the crew had gone up earlier and they had missed them as well. I decided to get to the ground with these two or until my mates showed up. Once off the train we headed for the Arndale Shopping center, not before long we stood looking at it from across a green and watched an Arsenal fan I recognised walking into a pub. We just started to head in the direction of the pub when one of my mates came rushing through the crowd of shoppers, he told us not to go across to the pub as a crew of Luton fans had just emptied out of the place in pursuit of 20 Arsenal fans who had walked by, he was sure they would return. I turned to the two I was with and said I will give a pint a miss in this pub, however they insisted they go across to the pub. I once again insisted they do not go, however they would have none of it and started to walk across the green to the pub. Needless to say as they disappeared inside the Luton crew came around the corner and headed straight for the pub, when they were about 15 yards from the door the Arsenal fan I had seen earlier came out clutching a pie and full pint of beer, he launched both pie and pint in the direction of the Luton crew before taking off like a greyhound. The two I had been with then came running out straight into the Luton crew who proceeded to beat them senseless, it was one of the Luton fans who stood over them in the end to put a stop to it. The ambulance took about 5 mins to arrive and took both of them away at which point me and my mate decided to head for the ground. We started walking up this residential road and hear shouting from a very angry man across from us who is dressed like a 70s reject with grey flares and a furry jacket. He shouted abuse and was getting aggressive to everybody walking up the road in full view of the Old Bill who was following behind. The Bill told him to shut it which did for a moment then he clocked me and my mate walking on the opposite side of the road. He ran into a garden and picked up a two house bricks joined with cement brick and launched it in our direction. The Bill grabbed him by the collars and shook him and threatened to arrest him, unless he calmed down, this time he did shut up. We turned off further up the road and headed to the ground the 70s reject walked on which made me think he was unconnected with football.

Ten yards on and at the bottom of the road we view a mob of about 150 gooners strutting past under police escort and chanting “Luton” , they were going to try and infiltrate the Luton end and incredibly the Old Bill were escorting them there. I made no attempt to join them as the whole idea appeared a waste of time surely someone was going to realise what was going on. The Luton crew I has seen earlier at the time were still wearing stay press, loafers and had cropped haircuts, the Arsenal mob were casuals dressed in faded jeans, track suits, brightly coloured jumpers and white trainers, in my mind you might as well have been infiltrating in an Arsenal shirt.

The ground started to fill up and with me still comparing an infiltration to the chance of finding Rocking horse shit the Arsenal Battle cry of the time went up from the Opposite end of the ground, “She wore, She wore, she wore a Yellow ribbon” When yellow ribbon was sung it all started kicking off with the Gooners attacking the luton fans stood at the back and center of the stand. The Luton fans backed off and and vacated their part of the terracing while the Gooners took it over and then bayed them to have a go back. The Luton fans were not up for it , the Old Bill and stewards were and not before long the Gooners were surrounded and pushed to the corner of the stand. Here the Old Bill and stewards started to lead the Gooners along the side of the pitch to the away end . They strutted down one side of the pitch and got to the halfway line when another group of Lutons in front of the main stand on the opposite side of the pitch piped up. They sang then pushed forward as if to make an attempt to get on the pitch. On seeing this the Gooners ran straight across the pitch to confront them, the Luton fans disappeared in a hurry behind the main stand to much laughter and jeering from the Arsenal fans in the away end. Thats how you do it Watford I thought and chuckled to myself, two years previously I had gone in to take that section in front of the mainstand with the Watford lads. Somebody got excited and announced our presence before the full mob could assemble, so in no time we were surrounded and taking a pasting. Being only 16 at the time I decided to bail out early and leave it to the older lads so climbed up railings into the mainstand in doing so I lost one of my shoes that fell back down to the terracing below. I just stood there looking down at a white sock wondering what the hell to do. I look over the side and see my mate Paddy taking the same route as me, I shouted down to him to get my shoe, his face was a picture he just stared at me then shouted back "Its kicking off we are taking a pasting and you lose you fucking shoe, Gooner your a c**t", He dropped down picked the shoe up and hurled it back up at me then continued with his escape. BTW That cost me a load of beers during my teenage years.

With the game well underway I hear the sound of it kicking off behind me and then cheering from the Luton fans, no way would they have a go like this I Thought. Next came the shout of “ICF” that was it every Gooner was piling up the terrace to take a swing, and within seconds this mob of West Ham ICF were surrounded and taking a pasting. The police managed to get between us and them and started to lead them off the terrace and out of the ground, Hundreds of Gooners also tried to leave the ground at the same time and carry on the fight , the police with truncheons drawn barred the exit gates, it was touch and go but the police managed to hold their line and send us back up to watch the game.
The game finished from memory in a draw and much to our disgust we were held in for 15 mins, then when the exit gates were open they did let us out only into a street that was blocked at the end. We waited for a further 10 mins and then I bumped into mate who had driven down from Watford who offered me a lift home. As we were still stuck in this side street and no sign of a breakout by the gooners and thinking the ICF would have been put on a train and left town ages ago I took his offer, we approached the police who let us through.

In the local pub that evening an Arsenal mate of mine walks in happy as Larry, he said I should have stayed as I missed the main event. He went onto explain, 5 mins after I left the Gooners managed to break out of the Police escort and then for the next hour and a half fought running battles with the West Ham ICF who had not left town as thought and also Luton fans, the gooners coming out victorious in the encounters.

In the Luton press it reported that violent clashes took place between visiting Arsenal fans and West Ham ICF the previous weekend, The ICF realising they would not make their game made their way over to ours and the police already over stretched containing the Arsenal fans did not have the numbers to escort the West Ham fans out of town.

I was at Luton that day, remember the ICF coming in our end, not sure about the "taking a pasting bit though"
although the Arsenal stood there ground, and did try to go out with them, thats all true

Dark days and the ICF were not a mob to mess with....i was just there to see the game

[nut flush gooner]

Millwall fan here.

Someone posted a link to this thread on one of our boards and I must say, it was a brilliant read.

Someone says somewhere on here that only those who don't know anything about what happened in the 70s and 80s underestimate how useful Arsenal were. That is true.

I'm sure some, if not most, on here will agree that it is such a shame what has happened to Arsenal off the pitch over the last 15 years. Used to be a proper fan base but, even as a supporter of another team, heart breaking to see all the johnny come latelys from the home counties and tourists with cameras now in the majority over there. I also hate the way that people who would have been frightened to go to a 2nd match in the 1980s now use the term "gooner". Someone needs to have a word with them.

Anyway, big respect to the old Arsenal lads on here and any long-term scarfers. For anyone who jumped on the bandwagon read this thread and weep.

As a long term "scarfer" (we are talking since the mid 80s) I think I need to put you right. Our average gates back in the day where no more than mid 30,000s. If you think the only time we used to put 50,000 plus in highbury was when we played Liverpool, Spurs or some big FA cup game vs the likes of manure or Forest.

Now we average nearly 60,000 each game. Where have most of these fans come from? No doubt 90% of our support comes from London/Southeast. The rest are a combination of fans who travel from around the country and football tourists.

It's not surprising the demographic of our fan base changing, look at the nationality of the players we have had in our squad over the last 20 years. Is it not surprising that people who may travel to London for a city break might want to take in a football match. Arsenal is only 15 mins from Central London so its a natural destination for anyone who loves football.

JCL's exist at every club, it's not just Arsenal, Chelsea are the worst. 30 years ago you would never see a Black or Asian Chelsea fan now their fan base is totally diverse. At least in North London in my area, 80% of football fans are Arsenal or Spurs with the odd glory hunter supporting the likes of manure or pool.

[OneBardGooner]

Yeah.

Anyway, I'm moving this to the basement as we aren't a hooligan forum.

Think your underestimating yourself a bit mate, you Ewoks gave those storm troopers a right pwapa pasting, claret and fur all over the place innit

yep - we faaaarrrckin ran em all over the manor. Shame you Hobbit/Dwarf Hybrids didn't show up mob-handed like you promised!!

Yeah!