General Election May 7th

It's all a load of Cannonballs in here! This is the virtual Arsenal pub where you can chat about anything except football. Be warned though, like any pub, the content may not always be suitable for everyone.

Which party will you vote for in May2015

Tories
15
25%
Labour
10
17%
Lib Dems
2
3%
Ukip
16
27%
Green
8
13%
Nationalist (Scottish, Welsh or Irish)
3
5%
Unionist
0
No votes
Other
0
No votes
Never vote
2
3%
None of the above
4
7%
 
Total votes: 60

nut flush gooner
Posts: 4010
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:23 am

Re: General Election May 7th

Post by nut flush gooner »

arseofacrow wrote:
nut flush gooner wrote:Havent been on this side of the forum for ages, voted Tory and please Cameron got a majority.

Bit disappointed about the shykippers that seem to be prevalent in the poll. The last two weeks have just proven what a shower of a party they are. Their leader falls on his sword and then is re-instated a few days later.

UKIP are nothing without Farage, but most people within his party realise (including the Tory defector Carswell) that they hold no credibility now the Conservatives have been elected. There will be a referendum on Europe and if the majority of the people in this country vote to stay in, there is no longer an argument about immigration because we have democratically voted to remain with the status quo.

Personally, as we speak I am voting out of EU mainly because of the way they impose directives/regulations on the UK that have a direct impact on my working life. Immigration isn't a big deal because it's fact that the net effect on the economy is to our benefit overall. Most of the people whingeing are the low skilled working class indegenous population, whose salaries are being undercut by cheaper eastern european migrants. To me thats market forces, we live in a global economy now.

Most of these people are traditional Labour supporters. It soo makes me lol that they have switched to UKIP in their droves. From socialist to borderline extremist right wing, quite a jump. I get the impression half of them haven't got a clue about Labour's true values.
Have you been in The Globe all night, mate? :shock: :wink:
I wish, just saying it how it is.

LDB
Posts: 6663
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:13 pm
Location: Having a cup of tea and waiting for all this to blow over

Re: General Election May 7th

Post by LDB »

nut flush gooner wrote:Havent been on this side of the forum for ages, voted Tory and please Cameron got a majority.

Bit disappointed about the shykippers that seem to be prevalent in the poll. The last two weeks have just proven what a shower of a party they are. Their leader falls on his sword and then is re-instated a few days later.

UKIP are nothing without Farage, but most people within his party realise (including the Tory defector Carswell) that they hold no credibility now the Conservatives have been elected. There will be a referendum on Europe and if the majority of the people in this country vote to stay in, there is no longer an argument about immigration because we have democratically voted to remain with the status quo.

Personally, as we speak I am voting out of EU mainly because of the way they impose directives/regulations on the UK that have a direct impact on my working life. Immigration isn't a big deal because it's fact that the net effect on the economy is to our benefit overall. Most of the people whingeing are the low skilled working class indegenous population, whose salaries are being undercut by cheaper eastern european migrants. To me thats market forces, we live in a global economy now.

Most of these people are traditional Labour supporters. It soo makes me lol that they have switched to UKIP in their droves. From socialist to borderline extremist right wing, quite a jump. I get the impression half of them haven't got a clue about Labour's true values.
Please explain to me how wanting a points based immigration system is "borderline extreme right wing." I accept UKIP have probably attracted the votes of the knuckledraggers who were on the BNP bandwagon a couple of years back and certainly like all fringe parties it has its fair share of loons who stand for councillor/MP. However, Farage's stance and the message of the party has for years been a fairly common sense conservative agenda (grammar schools, euroscepticism, immigration controls, smaller state, deregulation, welfare reform and stopping the decimation of the armed forces). Certainly these are what get labelled as right wing policies these days (although the definition has changed so many times throughout history it's all a bit confusing) but in my mind there is nothing extreme about it. Ukip are a right wing party, the Conservatives are a centre ground party. The media caricature of UKIP as the new BNP has been quite impressive despite only moderate (at best) similarities between the two. One of the curious things about the actual extreme right is that if you look at those movements throughout history and compare them to the extreme left, they have plenty in common.

Carswell's problem with Farage is an interesting one. It seems to be that he thinks Farage will be too divisive if he's the face of the out campaign because the mainstream media and established parties have already done a good job of painting him as the new Nick Griffin in the minds of large swathes of the public. I think he is probably right but then I hold 0 hope of the out campaign winning whether Farage goes or not. All of the main parties will campaign for in (including the Tories, I'd put good money on it) and all the money will flow in that direction. People will be scare mongered with talk of job losses and market reactions. Referendums always follow the money and the money will be well and truly in the in camp.

I was one who voted UKIP in that poll because it is the party which most closely represents my views. On polling day I voted Tory though because, like many people, the thought of a SNP-Labour government was too stomach churning to bare and my constituency is a straight Tory/Lib Dem fight.

nut flush gooner
Posts: 4010
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:23 am

Re: General Election May 7th

Post by nut flush gooner »

LDB wrote:
nut flush gooner wrote:Havent been on this side of the forum for ages, voted Tory and please Cameron got a majority.

Bit disappointed about the shykippers that seem to be prevalent in the poll. The last two weeks have just proven what a shower of a party they are. Their leader falls on his sword and then is re-instated a few days later.

UKIP are nothing without Farage, but most people within his party realise (including the Tory defector Carswell) that they hold no credibility now the Conservatives have been elected. There will be a referendum on Europe and if the majority of the people in this country vote to stay in, there is no longer an argument about immigration because we have democratically voted to remain with the status quo.

Personally, as we speak I am voting out of EU mainly because of the way they impose directives/regulations on the UK that have a direct impact on my working life. Immigration isn't a big deal because it's fact that the net effect on the economy is to our benefit overall. Most of the people whingeing are the low skilled working class indegenous population, whose salaries are being undercut by cheaper eastern european migrants. To me thats market forces, we live in a global economy now.

Most of these people are traditional Labour supporters. It soo makes me lol that they have switched to UKIP in their droves. From socialist to borderline extremist right wing, quite a jump. I get the impression half of them haven't got a clue about Labour's true values.
Please explain to me how wanting a points based immigration system is "borderline extreme right wing." I accept UKIP have probably attracted the votes of the knuckledraggers who were on the BNP bandwagon a couple of years back and certainly like all fringe parties it has its fair share of loons who stand for councillor/MP. However, Farage's stance and the message of the party has for years been a fairly common sense conservative agenda (grammar schools, euroscepticism, immigration controls, smaller state, deregulation, welfare reform and stopping the decimation of the armed forces). Certainly these are what get labelled as right wing policies these days (although the definition has changed so many times throughout history it's all a bit confusing) but in my mind there is nothing extreme about it. Ukip are a right wing party, the Conservatives are a centre ground party. The media caricature of UKIP as the new BNP has been quite impressive despite only moderate (at best) similarities between the two. One of the curious things about the actual extreme right is that if you look at those movements throughout history and compare them to the extreme left, they have plenty in common.

Carswell's problem with Farage is an interesting one. It seems to be that he thinks Farage will be too divisive if he's the face of the out campaign because the mainstream media and established parties have already done a good job of painting him as the new Nick Griffin in the minds of large swathes of the public. I think he is probably right but then I hold 0 hope of the out campaign winning whether Farage goes or not. All of the main parties will campaign for in (including the Tories, I'd put good money on it) and all the money will flow in that direction. People will be scare mongered with talk of job losses and market reactions. Referendums always follow the money and the money will be well and truly in the in camp.

I was one who voted UKIP in that poll because it is the party which most closely represents my views. On polling day I voted Tory though because, like many people, the thought of a SNP-Labour government was too stomach churning to bare and my constituency is a straight Tory/Lib Dem fight.
My reference to the party being borderline extreme right wing was based on some of the things party member's have publicly said, rather than one specific policy. But specifically talking about a points based system, ok you filter out all the unskilled labour but if you make it very difficult for people with skills to prove they can add value to our economy and they have other close alternatives eg Germany or some of the other Northern European economies that don't put them through such processes. Do you think we will still attract the same people?

Remember Australia as an example of a points based immigration system is pretty much on its own in that region, it doesn't have the same issues we have with state health provision. A large proportion of our NHS staff originate from the Indian Sub Continent. If they are seeing their fellow compatriates perhaps not having the skills to come to the UK, is that going to encourage them to work here or choose a more inclusive country?

I disagree about the Conservatives being a centre ground party. They are not as right wing as in the Thatcher/Tebbit era but they are most definitely right of centre. Cameron want's to do something about immigration, but by making it financially unattractive for people to come here ie they have to pay tax rather than collect benefits which is fair enough. The word aspiration has been used a lot lately, the Conservatives are most definitely the party of aspiration and that does not represent centre ground politics. Try the Lib Dems perhaps.

Farage was badly advised during the election campaign. The stuff he came out with about HIV tourists was pretty embarrassing to be honest and didn't do his cause any good. To be fair to you, a lot of what you say makes a lot of sense but most UKIP supporters as I have said previously originate from poor working class areas of the UK, and can't see any further than the "theres too many foreigner's in this country", their own agendas and narrow minded opinions.

arseofacrow
Posts: 6173
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Location: Cologne

Re: General Election May 7th

Post by arseofacrow »

It's time for Europe as a whole to look at itself, look to the future and decide what it wants to be.

The UK has to look at the cold hard economic facts, first and foremost. They have to think of the economic, social and securty implications of leaving the EU.

Unfortunately, it's likely be a battle of the scaremongerers and not, as it should be, a debate based upon the vision of the UK andthe EU, it's role and relationship with the EU and the wider world and the various scenarios that would inform the voters.

:|

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northbank123
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Location: Newcastle

Re: General Election May 7th

Post by northbank123 »

nutflush I'm not sure you can say that it's fact that migration is a net economic benefit. All of the reports and stats are highly dubious in their calculation method and in any even it's going to be a lot of guesswork. In the next sentence you point out that most of those moaning are unskilled workers who are undercut by Eastern Europeans. Taking this as an example, I don't see a huge net benefit - the company may save some money in wages but the government earns less in taxation and has to fork out welfare benefits for the displaced worker. Plus the added strain on the NHS, transport, public services in general of another person. Add their kids (taking up school places) plus a spouse who doesn't work (benefits) and where's the net gain? That's before you get into real scaremongering territory of the company repatriating their savings (and not paying corporation tax they should on it) and the worker sending some of their wages home.

Personally I don't know which way I'll vote. I dislike the European Union for two main reasons. Firstly, for a fundamentally economic union there has been mission creep beyond belief into attempted political harmonisation. Secondly, it has just outgrown itself and there is such disparity between the wealthier Western states and the newer countries that it is extremely difficult to introduce measures and policies to benefit everyone, especially when you throw the Eurozone into the mix.

I completely disagree with complete freedom of movement into this country but I think that is part of parcel of being in the EU - they won't budge on that and to be honest I don't think they would. Freedom of movement isn't the problem, it's the outwards expansion and mission creep that really makes freedom of movement an issue. I don't think that the UK sees a lot of immigration and emigration of skilled workers, which is the fundamental point of freedom of movement. I couldn't really give a fuck whether booze-soaked Essex folk will find it more difficult to go and run a bar on the Costa del Sol if we leave the EU. The political sovereignty of the UK point doesn't sway me really. The overwhelming majority of EU directives etc are mundane and have no substantial effect on the UK at all.

I do however recognise that the business considerations are a massive factor and acknowledge that I don't know enough about this to have made an informed decision yet. To be honest I don't think we'll ever get a proper reasoned debate on it because as LDB says, the debate will follow the campaigning and the money and if UKIP are the sole party backing an EU exit en masse then they carry very little credibility. You can be sure that (without wanting to be too much of a patronising prick) people will not conceive the importance of the real issues in this debate - 80% of the people who complain about EU laws and rulings don't know the difference between the European Court of Justice and the European Court of Human Rights for a start.

gazzatt2
Posts: 289
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Location: Essex

Re: General Election May 7th

Post by gazzatt2 »

it wasn't just unskilled low paid workers moaning many skilled british people thought they would get good jobs building the olympic park
except all the jobs wen to Poles etc who worked for minimum wage

the mass uncontrolled immigration by labour played in to the Tory owned companies allowing them to keep wage costs down to the minimum wage

as for unskilled workers i know people who had jobs paying above minimum wage now only getting minimum wage as they have had no pay rise in the last few years it was like it or leave, if they left the company would take on more polish woman who sent most of their wages home whilst all living in a house rented to them by the owner of the company

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flash gunner
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Re: General Election May 7th

Post by flash gunner »

arseofacrow wrote:
nut flush gooner wrote:Havent been on this side of the forum for ages, voted Tory and please Cameron got a majority.

Bit disappointed about the shykippers that seem to be prevalent in the poll. The last two weeks have just proven what a shower of a party they are. Their leader falls on his sword and then is re-instated a few days later.

UKIP are nothing without Farage, but most people within his party realise (including the Tory defector Carswell) that they hold no credibility now the Conservatives have been elected. There will be a referendum on Europe and if the majority of the people in this country vote to stay in, there is no longer an argument about immigration because we have democratically voted to remain with the status quo.

Personally, as we speak I am voting out of EU mainly because of the way they impose directives/regulations on the UK that have a direct impact on my working life. Immigration isn't a big deal because it's fact that the net effect on the economy is to our benefit overall. Most of the people whingeing are the low skilled working class indegenous population, whose salaries are being undercut by cheaper eastern european migrants. To me thats market forces, we live in a global economy now.

Most of these people are traditional Labour supporters. It soo makes me lol that they have switched to UKIP in their droves. From socialist to borderline extremist right wing, quite a jump. I get the impression half of them haven't got a clue about Labour's true values.
Have you been in The Globe all night, mate? :shock: :wink:
:moderator: Stalker Alert!!!! :moderator:

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g88ner
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Re: General Election May 7th

Post by g88ner »

flash gunner wrote:
arseofacrow wrote:
nut flush gooner wrote:Havent been on this side of the forum for ages, voted Tory and please Cameron got a majority.

Bit disappointed about the shykippers that seem to be prevalent in the poll. The last two weeks have just proven what a shower of a party they are. Their leader falls on his sword and then is re-instated a few days later.

UKIP are nothing without Farage, but most people within his party realise (including the Tory defector Carswell) that they hold no credibility now the Conservatives have been elected. There will be a referendum on Europe and if the majority of the people in this country vote to stay in, there is no longer an argument about immigration because we have democratically voted to remain with the status quo.

Personally, as we speak I am voting out of EU mainly because of the way they impose directives/regulations on the UK that have a direct impact on my working life. Immigration isn't a big deal because it's fact that the net effect on the economy is to our benefit overall. Most of the people whingeing are the low skilled working class indegenous population, whose salaries are being undercut by cheaper eastern european migrants. To me thats market forces, we live in a global economy now.

Most of these people are traditional Labour supporters. It soo makes me lol that they have switched to UKIP in their droves. From socialist to borderline extremist right wing, quite a jump. I get the impression half of them haven't got a clue about Labour's true values.
Have you been in The Globe all night, mate? :shock: :wink:
:moderator: Stalker Alert!!!! :moderator:
:lol: :lol:

nut flush gooner
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Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:23 am

Re: General Election May 7th

Post by nut flush gooner »

gazzatt2 wrote:it wasn't just unskilled low paid workers moaning many skilled british people thought they would get good jobs building the olympic park
except all the jobs wen to Poles etc who worked for minimum wage

the mass uncontrolled immigration by labour played in to the Tory owned companies allowing them to keep wage costs down to the minimum wage

as for unskilled workers i know people who had jobs paying above minimum wage now only getting minimum wage as they have had no pay rise in the last few years it was like it or leave, if they left the company would take on more polish woman who sent most of their wages home whilst all living in a house rented to them by the owner of the company
LOL, this is exactly the point I made earlier. An ill informed response with an undertone of prejudice. Do you think that Polish people don't spend any money in this country? I rented a spare room in my old house to a very articulate well educated Polish lad who works in the IT sector. With your attitude people like this would give our country a wide berth.

And whilst we seem to be on the subject of construction. At least the influx of Eastern European tradesmen now give us an alternative to the indigenous British builders who frankly are a total rip off!

nut flush gooner
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Re: General Election May 7th

Post by nut flush gooner »

northbank123 wrote:nutflush I'm not sure you can say that it's fact that migration is a net economic benefit. All of the reports and stats are highly dubious in their calculation method and in any even it's going to be a lot of guesswork. In the next sentence you point out that most of those moaning are unskilled workers who are undercut by Eastern Europeans. Taking this as an example, I don't see a huge net benefit - the company may save some money in wages but the government earns less in taxation and has to fork out welfare benefits for the displaced worker. Plus the added strain on the NHS, transport, public services in general of another person. Add their kids (taking up school places) plus a spouse who doesn't work (benefits) and where's the net gain? That's before you get into real scaremongering territory of the company repatriating their savings (and not paying corporation tax they should on it) and the worker sending some of their wages home.

Personally I don't know which way I'll vote. I dislike the European Union for two main reasons. Firstly, for a fundamentally economic union there has been mission creep beyond belief into attempted political harmonisation. Secondly, it has just outgrown itself and there is such disparity between the wealthier Western states and the newer countries that it is extremely difficult to introduce measures and policies to benefit everyone, especially when you throw the Eurozone into the mix.

I completely disagree with complete freedom of movement into this country but I think that is part of parcel of being in the EU - they won't budge on that and to be honest I don't think they would. Freedom of movement isn't the problem, it's the outwards expansion and mission creep that really makes freedom of movement an issue. I don't think that the UK sees a lot of immigration and emigration of skilled workers, which is the fundamental point of freedom of movement. I couldn't really give a fuck whether booze-soaked Essex folk will find it more difficult to go and run a bar on the Costa del Sol if we leave the EU. The political sovereignty of the UK point doesn't sway me really. The overwhelming majority of EU directives etc are mundane and have no substantial effect on the UK at all.

I do however recognise that the business considerations are a massive factor and acknowledge that I don't know enough about this to have made an informed decision yet. To be honest I don't think we'll ever get a proper reasoned debate on it because as LDB says, the debate will follow the campaigning and the money and if UKIP are the sole party backing an EU exit en masse then they carry very little credibility. You can be sure that (without wanting to be too much of a patronising prick) people will not conceive the importance of the real issues in this debate - 80% of the people who complain about EU laws and rulings don't know the difference between the European Court of Justice and the European Court of Human Rights for a start.
Not all companies are dodging corporation tax you know. Amazon have indicated that finally they will pay their dues in the UK. Starbucks still have a lot to answer for. Brits also wont do certain types of work, when was the last time you saw a British domestic cleaner? I think your economic arguments are fundamentally flawed, a company that makes more profit tends to re-invest usually in more labour.

As for emigration, what you say is utter rubbish. 2 million economically active brits have emigrated that are aged 25-44 and it is widely considered that these are generally talented people, who would add loads of value to our economy had they stayed in the UK.

I said previously, for me it is the business considerations that will sway me from being out of the EU to back in. I don't like that laws/regulations for how business in this country is conducted, are made from brussels.

arseofacrow
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Re: General Election May 7th

Post by arseofacrow »

The UK has been complicit in allowing the economic union of countries become a political vehicle. We have used the EU for this purpose as much as other countries. We were one of the only supporters of a potential Turkish entry to the EU, which was very much on the basis of security (doesn't look such a good idea now).

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northbank123
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Re: General Election May 7th

Post by northbank123 »

nut flush gooner wrote:
northbank123 wrote:nutflush I'm not sure you can say that it's fact that migration is a net economic benefit. All of the reports and stats are highly dubious in their calculation method and in any even it's going to be a lot of guesswork. In the next sentence you point out that most of those moaning are unskilled workers who are undercut by Eastern Europeans. Taking this as an example, I don't see a huge net benefit - the company may save some money in wages but the government earns less in taxation and has to fork out welfare benefits for the displaced worker. Plus the added strain on the NHS, transport, public services in general of another person. Add their kids (taking up school places) plus a spouse who doesn't work (benefits) and where's the net gain? That's before you get into real scaremongering territory of the company repatriating their savings (and not paying corporation tax they should on it) and the worker sending some of their wages home.

Personally I don't know which way I'll vote. I dislike the European Union for two main reasons. Firstly, for a fundamentally economic union there has been mission creep beyond belief into attempted political harmonisation. Secondly, it has just outgrown itself and there is such disparity between the wealthier Western states and the newer countries that it is extremely difficult to introduce measures and policies to benefit everyone, especially when you throw the Eurozone into the mix.

I completely disagree with complete freedom of movement into this country but I think that is part of parcel of being in the EU - they won't budge on that and to be honest I don't think they would. Freedom of movement isn't the problem, it's the outwards expansion and mission creep that really makes freedom of movement an issue. I don't think that the UK sees a lot of immigration and emigration of skilled workers, which is the fundamental point of freedom of movement. I couldn't really give a fuck whether booze-soaked Essex folk will find it more difficult to go and run a bar on the Costa del Sol if we leave the EU. The political sovereignty of the UK point doesn't sway me really. The overwhelming majority of EU directives etc are mundane and have no substantial effect on the UK at all.

I do however recognise that the business considerations are a massive factor and acknowledge that I don't know enough about this to have made an informed decision yet. To be honest I don't think we'll ever get a proper reasoned debate on it because as LDB says, the debate will follow the campaigning and the money and if UKIP are the sole party backing an EU exit en masse then they carry very little credibility. You can be sure that (without wanting to be too much of a patronising prick) people will not conceive the importance of the real issues in this debate - 80% of the people who complain about EU laws and rulings don't know the difference between the European Court of Justice and the European Court of Human Rights for a start.
Not all companies are dodging corporation tax you know. Amazon have indicated that finally they will pay their dues in the UK. Starbucks still have a lot to answer for. Brits also wont do certain types of work, when was the last time you saw a British domestic cleaner? I think your economic arguments are fundamentally flawed, a company that makes more profit tends to re-invest usually in more labour.

As for emigration, what you say is utter rubbish. 2 million economically active brits have emigrated that are aged 25-44 and it is widely considered that these are generally talented people, who would add loads of value to our economy had they stayed in the UK.

I said previously, for me it is the business considerations that will sway me from being out of the EU to back in. I don't like that laws/regulations for how business in this country is conducted, are made from brussels.
I was playing devil's advocate to an extent by using a stereotypical example in a simplified fashion. As I said the repatriation of profits and corporation tax avoidance would be scaremongering, but my point is it's hardly a cold fact that immigration is a net benefit, even if individuals are coming to work.

2 million sounds like a very high number, but what are the parameters for that? Are we talking about since the start of the EU? Is it worldwide? Making sweeping statements like "it is widely considered that these are generally talented people" comes across as a bit baseless tbh. A huge barrier to talented workers working elsewhere in the EU is (aside from being one of the strongest economies with the highest standards of living in the EU) the relatively very low rate of fluency in foreign languages compared to our European counterparts (although admittedly this is less of an issue for these economically active Britons doing a holiday season in Magaluf).

I get the complaints about Brussells interfering in our criminal laws etc but in terms of their trade and business rules/regulations that is one area where they should be regulating - it is a single market and customs union after all.

gazzatt2
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Re: General Election May 7th

Post by gazzatt2 »

nut flush gooner wrote:
gazzatt2 wrote:it wasn't just unskilled low paid workers moaning many skilled british people thought they would get good jobs building the olympic park
except all the jobs wen to Poles etc who worked for minimum wage

the mass uncontrolled immigration by labour played in to the Tory owned companies allowing them to keep wage costs down to the minimum wage

as for unskilled workers i know people who had jobs paying above minimum wage now only getting minimum wage as they have had no pay rise in the last few years it was like it or leave, if they left the company would take on more polish woman who sent most of their wages home whilst all living in a house rented to them by the owner of the company
LOL, this is exactly the point I made earlier. An ill informed response with an undertone of prejudice. Do you think that Polish people don't spend any money in this country? I rented a spare room in my old house to a very articulate well educated Polish lad who works in the IT sector. With your attitude people like this would give our country a wide berth.

And whilst we seem to be on the subject of construction. At least the influx of Eastern European tradesmen now give us an alternative to the indigenous British builders who frankly are a total rip off!
its not an ill informed response its fact
i know the people it affected
of course Polish people spend money in the UK
I'm just pointing out they sent a large amount of money home as they didn't have the living costs of a british person when they was only paying one rent on a crowded house
a lot of people have had there living standard eroded because of this uncontrolled mass immigration

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DB10GOONER
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Re: General Election May 7th

Post by DB10GOONER »

A lot of Oirish kids working in the States back in the 80's and 90's used to mob houses too. They'd rent a 4 bedroom gaff and you'd have 10 or 20 people living in there. Probably still happens. :D

nut flush gooner
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Re: General Election May 7th

Post by nut flush gooner »

gazzatt2 wrote:
nut flush gooner wrote:
gazzatt2 wrote:it wasn't just unskilled low paid workers moaning many skilled british people thought they would get good jobs building the olympic park
except all the jobs wen to Poles etc who worked for minimum wage

the mass uncontrolled immigration by labour played in to the Tory owned companies allowing them to keep wage costs down to the minimum wage

as for unskilled workers i know people who had jobs paying above minimum wage now only getting minimum wage as they have had no pay rise in the last few years it was like it or leave, if they left the company would take on more polish woman who sent most of their wages home whilst all living in a house rented to them by the owner of the company
LOL, this is exactly the point I made earlier. An ill informed response with an undertone of prejudice. Do you think that Polish people don't spend any money in this country? I rented a spare room in my old house to a very articulate well educated Polish lad who works in the IT sector. With your attitude people like this would give our country a wide berth.

And whilst we seem to be on the subject of construction. At least the influx of Eastern European tradesmen now give us an alternative to the indigenous British builders who frankly are a total rip off!
its not an ill informed response its fact
i know the people it affected
of course Polish people spend money in the UK
I'm just pointing out they sent a large amount of money home as they didn't have the living costs of a british person when they was only paying one rent on a crowded house
a lot of people have had there living standard eroded because of this uncontrolled mass immigration
The people who you know this affected, are the same ones who wont get out of bed unless its £500 a day cash in hand on the hip, which then mysteriously disappears off their tax returns! Are you surprised the construction companies went for the cheaper labour???!!!

Don't get me going about tradesman in this country. Only when they are fully regulated do they have the right to charge the ridiculous amounts they do, so they won't get away with multiple bodge jobs.

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