Paris attacks

[northbank123]

Fucking hell I can't turn on the TV without seeing senior Western Muslim leaders unequivocally condemning the attack and declaring that extremism must be rooted out and calling on all Muslims to be vigilant and report any suspicions.

Oh wait, yes I can. I don't like generalising a huge group of people, I have met plenty of great people who happen to be Muslims but I have to say, my impression of the Muslim community is that they look out for each other and close ranks rather than cooperating with anti-terror authorities and the rest of society.

[Yankee_Gooner_Dandee]

Jordan is the only Muslim nation that ever speaks out against the extremists.

[casgooner]

Pretty sure I've seen ordinary Muslims at Trafalgar Square for the vigil of the French victims speaking out. Muslim and Jewish religious leaders in Paris went together to the sites to respect the dead and speak out against the killings. Muslim leaders at G8 participated in the minute's silence for the victims. And after the attacks when leaders around the world were offering condolences, Arab leaders were among them. Maybe many ordinary Muslims are afraid to speak out in case they're next!

[GranadaJoe]

We do see Muslim 'leaders' on TV, but how many? Half a dozen, a dozen?

We've probably got some Muslim friends, but how many?

In total the above don't add up to many people, besides which they are self-selecting. We're probably not going to rub shoulders with many extremists, and if we did we're unlikely to strike up a long-lasting friendship.

Last night, Turkish football fans booed the minutes silence for the Paris victims.

After the Charlie Hebdo killings a survey of British Muslims (surely they should be more peaceful and liberal than their Saudi or Pakistani brethren) showed that 27% of them 'sympathised' with the murderers. They probably wouldn't kill anyone themselves, but that amounts to 800,000 British Muslims.
Other research has suggested that 15% to 25% of the world's Muslims are radical. That's 200 - 300 million people!

We focus on the West because that's where we are, but, as other posters have pointed out, these type of attacks are a daily occurence around the world.

Anyone who thinks that Paris wasn't about religion, or that the murderers were a handful of loonies is seriously deluding themselves, and it's damaging and dangerous.
I don't consider all Muslims a threat ot even a problem, but their religion and a significant proportion of them are.
We need to be honest about the situation and try to find a way of keeping ourselves and our values safe.

[augie]

Pretty sure I've seen ordinary Muslims at Trafalgar Square for the vigil of the French victims speaking out. Muslim and Jewish religious leaders in Paris went together to the sites to respect the dead and speak out against the killings. Muslim leaders at G8 participated in the minute's silence for the victims. And after the attacks when leaders around the world were offering condolences, Arab leaders were among them. Maybe many ordinary Muslims are afraid to speak out in case they're next!

Beware of the wolf in sheeps clothing

As northbank points out, the lack of strong vocal condemnation from the muslim community tells us everything we need to know It's all well and good saying that their leaders might be afraid for their own safety, what about the safety of the thousands of their flock who are going to be seriously endangered by the inevitable western backlash ?

Btw if the turks booed during the minutes silence last night, then there will be hell to pay when their fans travel to france for the euro's next summer - I am beginning to get seriously worried that it will be nigh on impossible for the authorities to run a safe euro 2016 in france

[northbank123]

Pretty sure I've seen ordinary Muslims at Trafalgar Square for the vigil of the French victims speaking out. Muslim and Jewish religious leaders in Paris went together to the sites to respect the dead and speak out against the killings. Muslim leaders at G8 participated in the minute's silence for the victims. And after the attacks when leaders around the world were offering condolences, Arab leaders were among them. Maybe many ordinary Muslims are afraid to speak out in case they're next!

Yeah you do see some Muslims attend Commemoration events, handing out poppies etc

A few out of millions. The point is that there is absolutely no ethos of rooting out extremism amongst western Muslims, which comes from their leaders but is shared by just about every Muslim.

Look at the comments of the Grand Mufti in Australia - lack of direct condemnation and shifting blame onto the victims. Thankfully having a look at the Australia media coverage they won't let shit like that slide and will say what is actually happening.

[casgooner]

I didn't say all of them did, I said I had seem some and Augie, I said 'ordinary' Muslims, not the leaders might be afraid to speak out.

[northbank123]

I didn't say all of them did, I said I had seem some and Augie, I said 'ordinary' Muslims, not the leaders might be afraid to speak out.

What does the head of a large Birmingham mosque or the imam of Manchester - as hypothetical examples - have to fear from condemning these attacks and encouraging all followers to help root out extremists in their own mosques and schools?

[casgooner]

I do keep saying 'ordinary Muslims' might be afraid to speak out.

[northbank123]

And why is that? Surely there are no radicals in their mosques and communities otherwise all of the good honest moderate Muslims would have reported that to the authorities.

And last night in Istanbul just told us what we already know - Turkish fans are complete and utter scum and letting 75m Muslims into the EU whilst expanding its borders ever closer to IS would be sheer idiocy.

[Yankee_Gooner_Dandee]

There are ~1.5 billion Muslims on planet Earth. Even if only 1% of them are "radical extremists" then that is still a whopping 15 MILLION potential suicide bombers and terrorists. And 1% is a low, very low, estimate.

[Top Londoner]

There are ~1.5 billion Muslims on planet Earth. Even if only 1% of them are "radical extremists" then that is still a whopping 15 MILLION potential suicide bombers and terrorists. And 1% is a low, very low, estimate.

"15 million potential suicide bombers and terrorists"
1% being a low, very low estimate? Who GUESSED that? Let me guess,,,,,,,, Obama, right?

Really ????

Do me a favour pal.

I'd be fairly sure that "suicide bombers" have taken less lives this year than the crank Yanks with their guns.
FFS. Get a grip with your sweeping statements mate.

[Theoperator]

Had to smile as we discover that the wanted man in Syria suddenly is in St Denis. Then they send a police dog in first, surprisingly the poor fu**er is shot .

Cant see the British Police doing that sort of thing. Next can we expect a poor Brazillian Plumber to be shot down in error

Thought last nights match was a great way of showing togetherness. Agree with Augie though the European Champs will be hard to be secure. They must go ahead though.

[northbank123]

There are ~1.5 billion Muslims on planet Earth. Even if only 1% of them are "radical extremists" then that is still a whopping 15 MILLION potential suicide bombers and terrorists. And 1% is a low, very low, estimate.

"15 million potential suicide bombers and terrorists"
1% being a low, very low estimate? Who GUESSED that? Let me guess,,,,,,,, Obama, right?

Really ????

Do me a favour pal.

I'd be fairly sure that "suicide bombers" have taken less lives this year than the crank Yanks with their guns.
FFS. Get a grip with your sweeping statements mate.

Obama of course being a notorious warmongerer? Imagine if Trump or Carson were president, they would have blown the entire Middle East off the face of the earth by now.

Ironically what is fundamentally required is good old-fashioned Western aggression. All nations need to come together to exterminate IS and scrub them out of existence. As soon as they start losing territory, they will become far less attractive and have far less ability to draw people in both domestically and internationally. But air strikes aren't going to cut it - pissing in the wind given the territory that they've been allowed to seiZe. Hate to say it but ground troops are required, and the sooner and harder it comes the better it will be in the long run.

There are of course political solutions which are required, and more needs to be done to prevent a like-for-like replacement stepping into the vacuum. But that's secondary right now.

[Theoperator]

Obama has been a disaster in the middle East (as was Bush Jnr in the opposite way) , came in with a "footprint of withdrawal" as if that can all go and be planned without a hitch, what a bad bad mistake thats been, leaving the power vacuum that the former religious leaders of Iraq took on.

Bush senior was the initial twit though, he had to follow Hussain into Iraq after kuwaits invasion and kick him out, thereby saving many more years of Sunni expectation of leadership and committing a load of Marsh Arabs Kurds and any other opponents to their deaths.

Meanwhile Russia wants Assad to remain in power in Syria and the US/ West dont but cant say who should be in power.... what a disaster.