The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

[nut flush gooner]

The problem with the second referendum is that it gets the youth out of a hole, and I dont support that - today's youth are happy to sit back and expect everyone else to do the work for them and that isnt good enough imo. If they wanted to stay in the eu, then they needed to get off their arses and help make it happen, but too many chose not to do so and are asking for a second chance to influence this policy. I would always believe that a second vote on anything like this, should be restricted to those who made the effort to vote first time around, cos they were the only one's who cared enough in the first place.

Btw I absolutely agree that we (Ireland) will be hit harder than anyone else with a uk exit from eu - how badly hit will only be realised a year or so after it happens, but for sure it wont be good. I will say though that the economic hit might not be as hard, as the effect it has on the peace process - I have spoken to people from both sides of the border, and they are seriously concerned about how it will affect the peace up there. I do not understand why the unionists are allowed push their agenda this much without anyone pointing out to them that the voters in northern Ireland actually voted to remain in the eu

One thing I will absolutely say is that Ireland should have absolutely agressively pursued every big american/multi-national company based in the uk after the brexit vote was declared - there is already big talk of companies leaving the uk (a big car manufacturer announced something a few weeks ago) because of the tax issue (import and export duty), and we could have been a nice base for those companies. I think that it will only be after these companies bail out of the uk, will the effect of brexit hit home for those hardliners

It took the referendum to make young people in this country realise how much we are selling ourselves short by leaving the EU, and also that they are impacted by the votes of people who won't be around in a few decades to face the consequences of living in a poorer country.

I feel uncomfortable about having a second referendum, but this whole saga has turned out to be a huge mess mainly caused by hardliners in the Conservative party who have for decades undermined the leadership be it Major, Cameron or now TM. It's like there's a pressure valve now, it's getting to the stage where Parliament is dysfunctional and possibly the only way of making any progress is by having a 3 way referendum. Hard Brexit, TM Brexit or Remain should be the options. What we didn't have before the original debate was an in-depth discussion on the impact of a Brexit on our everyday lives. There where lies and inaccuracies on both sides, and Northern Ireland really wasn't even considered.

Just last night David Davies was on Question Time saying we should be playing hardball and holding out until an acceptable deal is agreed with the EU. He also said TM didn't listen to his guidance. Well if the EU has said no to the vast majority of TM's wishlist what makes him think he would do any better. And yet this morning the EU has reiterated that no further concessions will be made to the deal on the table, they will not rip the agreement up and start all over.

[A11M11]

Morning all <
Undermining ? There has always been opposition to the E.U in both Parliament and the general public. All the referendum did was allow it to come out in public . The press talk of percentages but forget a salient point , there were 400 voting areas across the country including Gibraltar, of these 129 voted to remain and 271 to leave . That means acroos the country 32% ( generous ) approx voted stay and 68% approx wanted to go. ( /www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36616028 ).
The figures always stated are of course by head of population where large connubations heavily distort the figures , the fact remains that the vote to leave was a lot more decisive than the media portrays.
You wanted an in depth discussion on the impact of the possibilities , but I ask you who would you believe ? the prophets of doom and despondancy or the ones that look to the future with optimism . Truth is nobody knew , such esteemed organisations as the CBI , Bank of England , International monetary fund were doom mongers whereas in the wings were entrepreneurs stating the opposite .
Who do you believe :- Your choice.
They the doomers of course are all nett recievers from Brussels and it's quite easy to say they would would'nt they. Even Carney is so biased to towards Brussels under the guidance of Lagarde that most people take his dire warnings with a pinch of salt.
The subject of Davis on QT last evening apart from being shouted down mid sentence , his point was that he had been offered a Canada type deal by Tusk which could be further negotiated on . However in very couched terms intimated that May took him out behind his back and took over a more sympathetic to the E.U line.
Could he do better now ? Probably not . Could he have done better then ? Who knows.
As i have said before there are friction less borders all over the world it really is beyond comprehension that similar cannot be implemented in Ireland . And should any border exist , the thought that the troubles will be revisited is in the hands of the Irish themselves and I can't envisage that the average Irish person wants to go back to that.
You talk of a three way ""Peoples vote "" . a classic divide and conquer tactic. I.e . Split the leave vote and retain the remain . Should never happen on those terms.

[A11M11]

Having listened to the latest news conference it would seem that any new referendum should ask whether to accept T.M's deal or leave on WTO terms. As I said earlier THE COUNTRY voted 68% to 32% to LEAVE depending how you massage the figures.

[augie]

Morning all <
Undermining ? There has always been opposition to the E.U in both Parliament and the general public. All the referendum did was allow it to come out in public . The press talk of percentages but forget a salient point , there were 400 voting areas across the country including Gibraltar, of these 129 voted to remain and 271 to leave . That means acroos the country 32% ( generous ) approx voted stay and 68% approx wanted to go. ( /www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36616028 ).
The figures always stated are of course by head of population where large connubations heavily distort the figures , the fact remains that the vote to leave was a lot more decisive than the media portrays.
You wanted an in depth discussion on the impact of the possibilities , but I ask you who would you believe ? the prophets of doom and despondancy or the ones that look to the future with optimism . Truth is nobody knew , such esteemed organisations as the CBI , Bank of England , International monetary fund were doom mongers whereas in the wings were entrepreneurs stating the opposite .
Who do you believe :- Your choice.
They the doomers of course are all nett recievers from Brussels and it's quite easy to say they would would'nt they. Even Carney is so biased to towards Brussels under the guidance of Lagarde that most people take his dire warnings with a pinch of salt.
The subject of Davis on QT last evening apart from being shouted down mid sentence , his point was that he had been offered a Canada type deal by Tusk which could be further negotiated on . However in very couched terms intimated that May took him out behind his back and took over a more sympathetic to the E.U line.
Could he do better now ? Probably not . Could he have done better then ? Who knows.
As i have said before there are friction less borders all over the world it really is beyond comprehension that similar cannot be implemented in Ireland . And should any border exist , the thought that the troubles will be revisited is in the hands of the Irish themselves and I can't envisage that the average Irish person wants to go back to that.
You talk of a three way ""Peoples vote "" . a classic divide and conquer tactic. I.e . Split the leave vote and retain the remain . Should never happen on those terms.

The average Irish person NEVER wanted that violence at any time ffs The reality is that paramilitries on both sides were the one's at war and to me your comments smacks of someone who doesnt know or care what went on up there and could go start again You should also acknowledge that the bombings were not just restricted to Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland cos they hit mainland england too, so the thoughts of trouble being revisited is in everybodies hands surely ?
Btw your blaise attitude to the northern Irelands people's concerns, smacks of hypocrisy for someone who wants the uk to seperate from the rest of europe, cos northern Ireland is a part of the uk and their citizens concerns should be as relevent as those from london, glasgow, manchester and every other part of the uk

[nut flush gooner]

Having listened to the latest news conference it would seem that any new referendum should ask whether to accept T.M's deal or leave on WTO terms. As I said earlier THE COUNTRY voted 68% to 32% to LEAVE depending how you massage the figures.

The only person massaging the figures is you. Your method of calculating the so called convincing brexit majority is wrong. Its not a general election, its a referendum and as such the calculation is based on the number of voters not constituencies or districts. The floored logic in your figures is also based on each region having different numbers of voters.

This is just more propaganda and I can see why Augie is incredulous as to your comments about NI. The more you post this sort of stuff, the more I think we need another referendum. This complete ignorance is just reflected amongst millions of brexiteers.

[A11M11]

Thanks for your reply what my figures do show is the disparity between London ( the haves ) and the rest of the country that are sratching a living .

As for Ireland it may be upsetting for some of the contingent here but , it takes two people to have a fight , if there is no will for it , then it will not happen. it's down to them.

[Gunner Rob]

Thanks for your reply what my figures do show is the disparity between London ( the haves ) and the rest of the country that are sratching a living .

As for Ireland it may be upsetting for some of the contingent here but , it takes two people to have a fight , if there is no will for it , then it will not happen. it's down to them.

i will keep put of the irish question as augie is probably better placed to comment on that.
however your interpretation of how many people voted for Brexit is quite frankly embarrassing.

despite going on the people's vote march I do have some misgivings about a 2nd referendum, but it does appear that might be the only answer now.

if I was a Brexiteer I would be asking why has Brexit not been implemented as the government said that it would. you can't have a go at Theresa May though - she has come up with her version of Brexit, which fulfils the criteria asked in the referendum. the problem is that there are too many people moaning about her deal. Ok then that is admitting that you DID NOT KNOW WHAT YOU VOTED FOR and that a second referendum is necessary. As I have said before either agree with Theresa May's deal or shut up. You can't have it both ways.

[The Arsenal Way]

WTF......whoops, WHAT THE FUCK are you remoaners gonna do IF another refernedum was to happen, and this time 18 million votes cast were to leave?????
Think about it, and let it sink in...... snowflakes.......
Name calling that we are all clueless, senile, selfish and racist?
You just don't get it.....leaving or remaining, right or wrong in your opinion...DEMOCRACY will be dead if LEAVE doesn't happen.

Nut Flush and Rob HAPPY CHRISTMAS

[nut flush gooner]

Thanks for your reply what my figures do show is the disparity between London ( the haves ) and the rest of the country that are sratching a living .

As for Ireland it may be upsetting for some of the contingent here but , it takes two people to have a fight , if there is no will for it , then it will not happen. it's down to them.

Doesn't like London, supports Arsenal. Something not quite right there.

So you don't mind multi million-pound footballers playing for us, but you do have a problem with hard working people making a contribution to the economy.

If London ever became a city-state the rest of the country would be screwed with the vacuum in taxes left behind. London pays its way and some when it come to the UK.

[A11M11]

How is it embarrasing to look at things from a different perspective ?

Anyway Why should people that wanted a clean break from the E,U shut up . > you haven't since the result of the referendum and probably no doubt never will. Those of us that saw through the aims of it many years ago and I am not talking trade agreements which sensibly handled are a good thing , have seen the gradual whittling down of nations independence, not just ours , and if people bothered to notice the gap between rich and poor throughout Europe like Topsy it has grown.
It was always devised to divide and rule like a Borg collective and just wait until it starts controlling your tax affairs , your rights to speak in opposition.
We have one chance to go from it's clutches and that is now . There's little in May's deal that allows that , it will leave us still tied to their apron strings. We need to deal with them but not be part of them.
As for the peoples vote :- Remember the words of Jose Manuel Barroso, who said "They must go on voting until they get it right," Following the 2001 Irish vote and the French and Dutch ones a little later. the super-state umbrella conceived by Jacques Delors in the 1980s and Giscard d'Estaing in the 1990s is still marching forward . If you want to march with it , that's your choice but that's the real reason that so many voted against it .

Trade with them is good , being swallowed ? you will live to regret it.


Nutty I was born to the Arsenal , it was in my family from my grandfather being a blacksmith at Woolwich at the turn of the century. Doesn't mean that I have to like what has happened to the area I was forced to leave because of finance and when I come back which is quite ofen at least 20 times a season , I hardly recognise the place . So don't question my position re The Arsenal.

[StuartL]

https://www.facebook.com/DemocraziaVerd ... _tn__=FC-R

[Gunner Rob]

How is it embarrasing to look at things from a different perspective ?

Anyway Why should people that wanted a clean break from the E,U shut up . > you haven't since the result of the referendum and probably no doubt never will. Those of us that saw through the aims of it many years ago and I am not talking trade agreements which sensibly handled are a good thing , have seen the gradual whittling down of nations independence, not just ours , and if people bothered to notice the gap between rich and poor throughout Europe like Topsy it has grown.
It was always devised to divide and rule like a Borg collective and just wait until it starts controlling your tax affairs , your rights to speak in opposition.
We have one chance to go from it's clutches and that is now . There's little in May's deal that allows that , it will leave us still tied to their apron strings. We need to deal with them but not be part of them.
As for the peoples vote :- Remember the words of Jose Manuel Barroso, who said "They must go on voting until they get it right," Following the 2001 Irish vote and the French and Dutch ones a little later. the super-state umbrella conceived by Jacques Delors in the 1980s and Giscard d'Estaing in the 1990s is still marching forward . If you want to march with it , that's your choice but that's the real reason that so many voted against it .

Trade with them is good , being swallowed ? you will live to regret it.


Nutty I was born to the Arsenal , it was in my family from my grandfather being a blacksmith at Woolwich at the turn of the century. Doesn't mean that I have to like what has happened to the area I was forced to leave because of finance and when I come back which is quite ofen at least 20 times a season , I hardly recognise the place . So don't question my position re The Arsenal.

1. it is fine to look at things from a different perspective but it is embarrassing when what you say is so wrong.
I can give you a fact which of course you will dismiss - the fact is that only 37% of the country actually voted for Brexit, so what about the other 63% ?

2. The referendum asked whether the UK should leave the EU or not. Theresa May's deal achieves this.
I don't like it but should this go through Parliament then of course I would accept this. However this deal is not going through Parliament because some Tory MPs want a different Brexit. If you want a different Brexit then you would need to have a clearer referendum At the moment you appear to want a 2nd referendum more than me even.

3. London has some of the most deprived areas in the country - I really think to come on an Arsenal forum to sneer at Londoners is not on.
And if you are so impoverished out in the country then how come you can afford to come here 20 times a season ?

[nut flush gooner]

How is it embarrasing to look at things from a different perspective ?

Anyway Why should people that wanted a clean break from the E,U shut up . > you haven't since the result of the referendum and probably no doubt never will. Those of us that saw through the aims of it many years ago and I am not talking trade agreements which sensibly handled are a good thing , have seen the gradual whittling down of nations independence, not just ours , and if people bothered to notice the gap between rich and poor throughout Europe like Topsy it has grown.
It was always devised to divide and rule like a Borg collective and just wait until it starts controlling your tax affairs , your rights to speak in opposition.
We have one chance to go from it's clutches and that is now . There's little in May's deal that allows that , it will leave us still tied to their apron strings. We need to deal with them but not be part of them.
As for the peoples vote :- Remember the words of Jose Manuel Barroso, who said "They must go on voting until they get it right," Following the 2001 Irish vote and the French and Dutch ones a little later. the super-state umbrella conceived by Jacques Delors in the 1980s and Giscard d'Estaing in the 1990s is still marching forward . If you want to march with it , that's your choice but that's the real reason that so many voted against it .

Trade with them is good , being swallowed ? you will live to regret it.


Nutty I was born to the Arsenal , it was in my family from my grandfather being a blacksmith at Woolwich at the turn of the century. Doesn't mean that I have to like what has happened to the area I was forced to leave because of finance and when I come back which is quite ofen at least 20 times a season , I hardly recognise the place . So don't question my position re The Arsenal.

So you admit because you feel you have had a tough deal and for whatever reason you/ your family had to move away from London, thats the reason you decided to stock two fingers up at the country. This is replicated across large swathes of brexit land you know. It kind of smacks of bitterness to me rather than actually wanting whats best for the country.

I was brought up in Archway, it was a shithole back then my parents where served with a compulsory purchase order on what was a three storey townhouse which was knocked down and they moved further out into the suburbs. The same house today in an area that has changed immeasurably for the better with the leafy crouch end just up the road would fetch north of £1.3m for quite a modest house. And yet we dont walk round feeling sorry for ourselves.

The whole area around the new Emirates stadium has been redeveloped in a very tasty way, Holloway Road and Finsbury Park have been dragged up from the gutter. Not forgetting that Highbury always was a nice area and its now one of the nicest areas to live in close to central london. Most Arsenal fans are priced out of the area.

What would you rather the area was like, not safe to walk around at night for fear of getting mugged in places like shite hart lane or somewhere that loads of bars, restaurants and shops spring up creating a real cosmopolitan vibe. Not forgetting businesses further enhancing the area creating jobs and prosperity.

As I said many times before on here this is a self harming exercise for a lot of brexiteers, and for that reason ive changed my mind, we need a second referendum to sort this mess out and move on.

[DB10GOONER]

Wow. Fuck me. It is hilarious in a bad way that one or two of you think the violence in NI is down to the Irish only. I'm assuming you don't know that your government / royal family instigated the "Irish Problem" through empire building and invasion?

I'm no fan of the concept of a United Ireland (we would go broke within a year if it ever happened) but I find some of the arrogant blasé comments on this thread pretty offensive and plain stupid tbh.

Believe me if that shit kicks off up there again then the UK becomes a target for those murdering IRA bastards again and quite possibly we will see retaliatory attacks in Dublin from the UVF / UDA filth.

[Gunner Rob]

ok so Theresa May doesn't want a 2nd referendum.

fair enough - only one option then, and that is to revoke Article 50, and suspend Brexit...indefinitely.