rich31 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:53 am
nut flush gooner wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:54 am
rich31 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:34 pm
nut flush gooner wrote: ↑Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:30 pm
rich31 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:55 pm
I do have to say that many remainers come across as having a dismissive ,sneering attitude towards anyone who wants to leave. The condescending "you are too stupid to understand" stance towards people who voted to leave does very little to help.I am honest enough to admit that i do not know whether it is best to leave or stay, and i am not entirely convinced anyone else really knows until it happens.However ,being spoken to as if i am a halfwit for even considering leaving is never going to get me onside or anyone else who voted to leave or even considers it an option.
What and Brexiteers aren't as dismissive? It's both ways mate, people only choose to hear what they want.
A classic example of this was during the week, Donald Tusk's "special place in hell" comments were met with complete consternation by the likes of Nigel Farage and the Sun newspaper. Farage has a history of insulting the Europeans, take this for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bypLwI5AQvY
When Farage was questioned about these comments this week, he said they were a joke and tongue in cheek. Yeah he's really saying it in a comical way isn't he.
Then you have the Sun newspaper, which let's face it is the rag of choice for the average Brexiteer coming out with pearlers like "Up Yours Delors" in the 90s. There's no doubt a catalogue of similar headlines down the years.
Most Brexiteers are derided in this country, because they tried to justify reasons other than immigration for leaving the EU and using this thread as an example, just shown how clueless and uninformed they really are.
Quite ironic you can't see this, when a few posts above is an abusive rant that doesn't even come close to debating the real issues surrounding brexit.
Firstly the fact that you use Farage and the sun as barometers of all brexiteers is a very sweeping and condescending viewpoint.After that you elude to most leave voters as only wanting to leave because of immigration.On what is that based? Is it fact based or just your opinion?
To me ,your post, which appears to accuse anyone who may want to leave as being a thick ,farage supporting,sun influenced,knuckle dragging, immigrant hating right winger just compounds my original post.
Its not condescending at all, the majority of Brexiteers especially Northerners who voted for UKIP in their millions, see Farage as a folk hero for sticking up to the EU.
I could have quoted Boris Johnson or Simon Williams, both who have insulted the EU over the last few years. To me it's no big deal, these things happen in politics, but to sit there crying after someone bites back just shows a level of immaturity in my opinion, especially if you keep using references to the Second World war.
And again, I re-iterate the quality of the debate from Brexiteers on this thread is a reflection of the wider country, but if you want to prove otherwise go ahead. I am all ears it would be nice to hear some constructive, well thought out debate for a change.
In the 2015 election 3,881,099 people voted for UKIP giving them one seat in Clacton(hardly the north of the country) and in the 2017 election 594,068 people voted for UKIP.In between these 2 elections in the 2016 eu vote 17,410,742 voted to leave.
This shows that even if you add the 2015 and 2017 UKIP votes together (total 4,475,167) that 12,935,575 people who did not vote for UKIP in either election did vote to leave the eu.
I think it is fair to say that those figures make a mockery of your argument that all/most leave voters are farage supporters or see him as a folk hero or are even UKIP voters.You really should try to stop the sweeping generalisations mate as they do not help your argument.
As i said originally i do not pretend to have the insight and knowledge to accurately predict the future but i do know that this smearing every leave voter as some kind of stupid, easily influenced fool is wrong and unsavoury.
Clacton is an anomaly when it comes to UKIP, but with a first past the post electoral system that doesn't show that UKIP support isn't based in the north of the country. There where dozens of constituencies in the north where UKIP finished second mainly to Labour in the 2105 election.
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/mapping-ukips-vote-share/
"While now seen by some as a ‘political honey bee’ – that is to say, dying from its own sting – Ukip’s emergence from the fringes to the political mainstream has been undeniably transformative for the shape of British politics.
One particularly notable aspect of their ascension was the party’s ability to challenge Labour in the industrial towns of northern England – a looming spectre in what were once Labour’s heartlands.
In both academic and wider political spheres, this has largely been attributed to Ukip’s appeal to the ‘left-behind’ voters, a substantial constituency of poorer socioeconomic groups and those who espouse traditional values who had been all but abandoned by the liberal consensus in domestic and international politics."
With regards to the people who did not vote UKIP, large swathes of Brexit support also are Conservative voters, and that brings me onto your quote about me saying most brexiteers are Farage supporters? Where did I say that?
To make it clear, my reference to Farage was in the way he (and the SUN a Tory rag) insulted the Europeans many times in the past, and yet when it comes back he throws his toys out the pram. By the way, for the record I think Tusk was an idiot for using the language he came out with last week. No one wins if negotiations break down and a smooth orderly brexit is not agreed.
