The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

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Remain or leave

Remain
27
35%
Leave
51
65%
 
Total votes: 78

cameron326
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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Postby cameron326 » Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:04 pm

One thing I guarantee you will happen is a constitutional crisis within a month, two months tops, of Boris The Racist's "leadership".
I always kind of had a grudging respect for the UK not cowing down to the EU on everything, but when I look at the complete fuckwits that are trying to lead you out of the EU I can't help but think you are probably fucked unfortunately.



The UK is the EU - literally.
A very important part of it. So it was only ever "standing up" to itself.

:coffeespit: :coffeespit: :coffeespit:
The European Union (EU) is a political and economic union of 28 member states that are located primarily in Europe.
The European Union (EU) is a group of 28 countries that operates as a cohesive economic and political block.
The European Union is an international political and economic organization of 28 European countries

Other definitions are available, but they all amount to the same thing. So, yes, indeed, the UK is the EU, as are the 27 other member states. It’s pretty straightforward really.

Jock Gooner
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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Postby Jock Gooner » Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:16 pm

One thing I guarantee you will happen is a constitutional crisis within a month, two months tops, of Boris The Racist's "leadership".
I always kind of had a grudging respect for the UK not cowing down to the EU on everything, but when I look at the complete fuckwits that are trying to lead you out of the EU I can't help but think you are probably fucked unfortunately.



The UK is the EU - literally.
A very important part of it. So it was only ever "standing up" to itself.

:coffeespit: :coffeespit: :coffeespit:
The European Union (EU) is a political and economic union of 28 member states that are located primarily in Europe.
The European Union (EU) is a group of 28 countries that operates as a cohesive economic and political block.
The European Union is an international political and economic organization of 28 European countries

Other definitions are available, but they all amount to the same thing. So, yes, indeed, the UK is the EU, as are the 27 other member states. It’s pretty straightforward really.
:coffeespit: :coffeespit: :coffeespit: :corkbarry: :corkbarry: :corkbarry:

A11M11
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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Postby A11M11 » Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:15 pm

The European Union (EU) is a political and economic union of 28 member states that are located primarily in Europe.
The European Union (EU) is a group of 28 countries that operates as a cohesive economic and political block.
The European Union is an international political and economic organization of 28 European countries

Other definitions are available, but they all amount to the same thing. So, yes, indeed, the UK is the EU, as are the 27 other member states. It’s pretty straightforward really.


the UK is the EU, should read part of the E.U for the moment .
Hopefully that status is shortlived.

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Nos89
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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Postby Nos89 » Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:19 pm

Lib dems are even bigger spunkbubbles than the Tories.
Johnson will now pick up Brexit Party voters, Labour is in disarray, Lib Dems not got enough of a base.
Johnson calls a GE and he will get a majority to govern for the next 5 years.

What happens with Brexit is not important for him - Boris has now got power, he will make sure that he keeps hold of it.
Still don't see an election happening before Brexit. May tried it and nearly got done. Boris won't take the risk. Simply an election would cause unneccesary chaos when governemnt needs to be focussing on the proposition of a no-deal brexit. The fact he's put it back on the table will have the EU's new president having to re-think its strategy as a no-deal leaves them in a more vulnerable position than the UK, as the UK businesses and government have been preparing for the prospect of a no-deal exit. Another little recession will be inconsequential. We've had 3 of them since the '90's and lived in austerity for the last 10 years, all whilst we've been in the EU, so what difference will another make? House prices drop a little, small businesses begin to profit, bigger companies begin to struggle, new car sales drop a bit. Been there seen it survived it. It's time to buy shares in McDonalds as they always do well in a recession.
I’ve read some funny stuff recently but this is the king of the crop.

On the one hand The U.K. - begins from a starting point of a predicted 5% loss to GDP (government backed studies) in the event of No Deal and facing years of hammering out new agreements virtually from scratch which must be acceptable to all EU members. Then needs to make agreements with dozens of NonEU nations and trading bodies across the world, which will never give the smaller U.K. economy more favorable terms than the superpower size EU economy.

On the other hand The EU - already trading with the entire world and has vast and current experience of making beneficial trade agreements with all kinds of diverse governments throughout the world. Something which our inexperienced government sorely lacks. Will, in the event of No Deal Brexit, need to renegotiate at a future date with a SINGLE COUNTRY, rather than dozens and does not need to worry about managing the daily infrastructure concerns, health, education, security concerns, not to mention agriculture, food etc etc of an entire nation for which it is solely responsible while it does so. Oh, did I forget to mention simultaneously handling the rising anger, independence movements in Scotland and N.Ireland?

But the EU is “more vulnerable” than the U.K.? Okay, okay. Sure.

The UK is the second largest financial contributor to the EU coffers, which gives it a strong economical position. It contributes more than the 13 smallest member nations combined.
The EU relys on the substantial economic contribution from the UK are you telling me they are not going to miss that? Germany alone relys on 40% of its exporting trade to the UK. The UK leaving with a no-deal is like Sky pulling out of its TV deal with the Premier League. It will leave the EU with a massive funding void that they will not be able to recover from its other member states. Thats's why they were so keen to ensure May took no-deal off the table.
A no-deal Brexit isn't good for anyone but looking at the current European conditions the UK is in a better position to recover than the remaining 27 member states. I also think you've underestimated the capability of the British government to negotiate trading deals with other countries. The EU in its current form is not the trade agreement which the UK signed up for in 1973. The terms of the agreement negotiated between the UK and the EEC pre-1992 was a workable situation. The Brexit agreement should be looking to re-set to that deal. It was when the EEC wanted to implement the ERM and the single European currency that things started to go wrong, and expanding to 28 members.
Had scotland voted to leave the Union in 2016, they would have voted themselves out the EU. They then as an independant nation would have to apply for membership, something they still have to do if they leave the Union after Brexit happens, Currently, they do not have an economy that passes the EU criteria for membership.

nut flush gooner
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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Postby nut flush gooner » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:05 am

Lib dems are even bigger spunkbubbles than the Tories.
Johnson will now pick up Brexit Party voters, Labour is in disarray, Lib Dems not got enough of a base.
Johnson calls a GE and he will get a majority to govern for the next 5 years.

What happens with Brexit is not important for him - Boris has now got power, he will make sure that he keeps hold of it.
Still don't see an election happening before Brexit. May tried it and nearly got done. Boris won't take the risk. Simply an election would cause unneccesary chaos when governemnt needs to be focussing on the proposition of a no-deal brexit. The fact he's put it back on the table will have the EU's new president having to re-think its strategy as a no-deal leaves them in a more vulnerable position than the UK, as the UK businesses and government have been preparing for the prospect of a no-deal exit. Another little recession will be inconsequential. We've had 3 of them since the '90's and lived in austerity for the last 10 years, all whilst we've been in the EU, so what difference will another make? House prices drop a little, small businesses begin to profit, bigger companies begin to struggle, new car sales drop a bit. Been there seen it survived it. It's time to buy shares in McDonalds as they always do well in a recession.
I’ve read some funny stuff recently but this is the king of the crop.

On the one hand The U.K. - begins from a starting point of a predicted 5% loss to GDP (government backed studies) in the event of No Deal and facing years of hammering out new agreements virtually from scratch which must be acceptable to all EU members. Then needs to make agreements with dozens of NonEU nations and trading bodies across the world, which will never give the smaller U.K. economy more favorable terms than the superpower size EU economy.

On the other hand The EU - already trading with the entire world and has vast and current experience of making beneficial trade agreements with all kinds of diverse governments throughout the world. Something which our inexperienced government sorely lacks. Will, in the event of No Deal Brexit, need to renegotiate at a future date with a SINGLE COUNTRY, rather than dozens and does not need to worry about managing the daily infrastructure concerns, health, education, security concerns, not to mention agriculture, food etc etc of an entire nation for which it is solely responsible while it does so. Oh, did I forget to mention simultaneously handling the rising anger, independence movements in Scotland and N.Ireland?

But the EU is “more vulnerable” than the U.K.? Okay, okay. Sure.

The UK is the second largest financial contributor to the EU coffers, which gives it a strong economical position. It contributes more than the 13 smallest member nations combined.
The EU relys on the substantial economic contribution from the UK are you telling me they are not going to miss that? Germany alone relys on 40% of its exporting trade to the UK. The UK leaving with a no-deal is like Sky pulling out of its TV deal with the Premier League. It will leave the EU with a massive funding void that they will not be able to recover from its other member states. Thats's why they were so keen to ensure May took no-deal off the table.
A no-deal Brexit isn't good for anyone but looking at the current European conditions the UK is in a better position to recover than the remaining 27 member states. I also think you've underestimated the capability of the British government to negotiate trading deals with other countries. The EU in its current form is not the trade agreement which the UK signed up for in 1973. The terms of the agreement negotiated between the UK and the EEC pre-1992 was a workable situation. The Brexit agreement should be looking to re-set to that deal. It was when the EEC wanted to implement the ERM and the single European currency that things started to go wrong, and expanding to 28 members.
Had scotland voted to leave the Union in 2016, they would have voted themselves out the EU. They then as an independant nation would have to apply for membership, something they still have to do if they leave the Union after Brexit happens, Currently, they do not have an economy that passes the EU criteria for membership.
So you are saying Germany exports 40% of all its goods and services to the UK? That's not true.

https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/exports-by-country

Certainly wasn't the case in 2017, I doubt its changed a significant amount since.

Personally, I don't care about the economic welfare of the EU, but it is entwined with the UK. So if we go down the shitter so do they and vice versa.

Boris is playing a blinder so far, he's made it clear that we will leave on the 31st October. Labour and backbench Tories will bring the government down and force an election. Then the Tories will win by a landslide taking all the Brexit parties vote. I can't see anything but a hard Brexit from here unless the Europeans blink before 31st October, which seems unlikely. Then we shall see if this has been worth it all along, rather than go round in circles saying the same things as we have done for the last 3 years.

A11M11
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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Postby A11M11 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:38 am

Eyes down for a second referendum cloaked in the disguise of a general election.

Looks like the liberals and Labour as a "party of remain " will join with all the fringe parties and line up against Conservative and Brexit party who will have to do a deal if they wish to hold power.

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Nos89
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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Postby Nos89 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:46 pm

Eyes down for a second referendum cloaked in the disguise of a general election.

Looks like the liberals and Labour as a "party of remain " will join with all the fringe parties and line up against Conservative and Brexit party who will have to do a deal if they wish to hold power.
If the conservatives wish to remain in power, they would be foolish to hold a general election before 31st october. The result in the last nights by-election wasn't a warning as it appears to me that the conservatives didn't try and win it by getting the brexit party votes, and by getting behind their candidate. They put Boris on his campaign ahead of their candidate which indicates to me that they were testing the water of the pulling power of Boris. Had they done a deal with the Brexit party, they would have won. Lib dem's still didn't receive all the votes from the greens and other minor parties. A party in power doesn't risk it on a whim, May got through by the skin of her teeth and surely they won't make the same mistake.
Do you really think a Labour / Lib Dem coalition would be just what this country needs right now or for the next 5 years?

A11M11
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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Postby A11M11 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:49 am

Do you really think a Labour / Lib Dem coalition would be just what this country needs right now or for the next 5 years?

No not me , I wouldn't want either bunch of loons near the gates of number 10.
I just feel that Johnson will try to bluff it out and make every effort to leave on the 31st but will be thwarted by the numbers currently in Westminster. It will then leave him with no option.
I can't see the E.U making any major changes , afterall they have a deal which favours them so much that they have no reason to back track and can hang on in the hope that their mates Starmer , Cooper and now Swinson get the keys to the house and roll over and tie us in for ever. Lets face it they like us but they love our money more and would much rather that we give it to them rather than they have to work for it in an open market.
Which all confuses the reasons why people actually voted to leave in the first place .
Fundamentaly it was about control , be it immigration , rule of law , decision making , it was about accountability and the effect of the C.A.P and the C.F.P on their daily lives. This why 69% of the 382 voting areas voted out whereas the high density metropolis' where the people believe that their food is grown in plastic boxes at the back of Tescos just quite selfishly looked after themselves and without looking at the long term affects voted for the status quo.

nut flush gooner
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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Postby nut flush gooner » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:42 am

Do you really think a Labour / Lib Dem coalition would be just what this country needs right now or for the next 5 years?

No not me , I wouldn't want either bunch of loons near the gates of number 10.
I just feel that Johnson will try to bluff it out and make every effort to leave on the 31st but will be thwarted by the numbers currently in Westminster. It will then leave him with no option.
I can't see the E.U making any major changes , afterall they have a deal which favours them so much that they have no reason to back track and can hang on in the hope that their mates Starmer , Cooper and now Swinson get the keys to the house and roll over and tie us in for ever. Lets face it they like us but they love our money more and would much rather that we give it to them rather than they have to work for it in an open market.
Which all confuses the reasons why people actually voted to leave in the first place .
Fundamentaly it was about control , be it immigration , rule of law , decision making , it was about accountability and the effect of the C.A.P and the C.F.P on their daily lives. This why 69% of the 382 voting areas voted out whereas the high density metropolis' where the people believe that their food is grown in plastic boxes at the back of Tescos just quite selfishly looked after themselves and without looking at the long term affects voted for the status quo.
You can't put the Lib Dems in the same category as Labour. They are a party that promotes business as well as having a social conscience. Don't forget that Vince Cable called the financial crisis quite a long time before it hit our shores in 2007/08. What you don't like is the thought of the original referendum being overturned.

In a way, a General Election is another referendum, but we know a lot more facts now. It will be quite interesting to see Brexiteers in Labour heartlands voting either Conservative or the Brexit Party, going completely against their natural instincts.

A11M11
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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Postby A11M11 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:08 pm

What you don't like is the thought of the original referendum being overturned.

Correct !
In my opinion it would be a crying shame if having got so close to something that I have thought neccesary since Ted Heath lied his way in. That a bunch of people scared of their own shadows manage to thwart it.
I remember Peter Shore at the Oxford union stating all the reasons that we should never have joined. Tony Benn gave up a peerage and fought against it . Their warnings have over time proved to be correct.
It was never about trade , it's always been about removing sovereignty , just ask Junker who has admitted that "" when it gets serious you have to lie . Bilderberg put forward the idea of controlling Europe and floating a single currency in the 1950's . Kalergi wanted mass immigration in the 1920's . he said The man of the future will be of mixed race. Today's races and classes will gradually disappear .
The foundation and development of the E.U has always been based on these theories and despite the inevitable rascist jibes it is hard to deny that these things are happening.
It suits the power brokers behind the scenes to see Brexit being argued in purely financial terms . Deal or no deal , single market , customs union . It takes peoples eyes off of their true direction . They want control and they want to make money and we are paying through the nose so that they can get it.
I also flirted with the Liberals in my early years but later realised that although laudable their policies are frankly impracticable. They have now jumped onto the Greens patch and have become the doyens of Climate change and when that horse has run it's course they will look for another scheme to become relevant .
I actually have a Liberal MP . He's a nice man but about as much use as a pound of wet suet .Unike most politicians he was voted in to use his powers on local issues , despite his region voting 60/40 to leave he has voted against their wishes and abstained on the issue , I have met him a few times but frankly it's like talking to a wall

Gunner Rob
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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Postby Gunner Rob » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:05 am

What you don't like is the thought of the original referendum being overturned.

Correct !
In my opinion it would be a crying shame if having got so close to something that I have thought neccesary since Ted Heath lied his way in. That a bunch of people scared of their own shadows manage to thwart it.
I remember Peter Shore at the Oxford union stating all the reasons that we should never have joined. Tony Benn gave up a peerage and fought against it . Their warnings have over time proved to be correct.
It was never about trade , it's always been about removing sovereignty , just ask Junker who has admitted that "" when it gets serious you have to lie . Bilderberg put forward the idea of controlling Europe and floating a single currency in the 1950's . Kalergi wanted mass immigration in the 1920's . he said The man of the future will be of mixed race. Today's races and classes will gradually disappear .
The foundation and development of the E.U has always been based on these theories and despite the inevitable rascist jibes it is hard to deny that these things are happening.
It suits the power brokers behind the scenes to see Brexit being argued in purely financial terms . Deal or no deal , single market , customs union . It takes peoples eyes off of their true direction . They want control and they want to make money and we are paying through the nose so that they can get it.
I also flirted with the Liberals in my early years but later realised that although laudable their policies are frankly impracticable. They have now jumped onto the Greens patch and have become the doyens of Climate change and when that horse has run it's course they will look for another scheme to become relevant .
I actually have a Liberal MP . He's a nice man but about as much use as a pound of wet suet .Unike most politicians he was voted in to use his powers on local issues , despite his region voting 60/40 to leave he has voted against their wishes and abstained on the issue , I have met him a few times but frankly it's like talking to a wall
Not sure what you are waffling on about really but I do find it funny that Brexiteers go on about Remainers and project fear and yet then you come out with this :D

Bottom line is this - Brexiteers want to take back control and have Parliament make the rules over Brussels. Fine by me - Parliament is sovereign, and is against a no deal Brexit. So either Boris does a deal with the EU or we call the whole thing off ok ?

A11M11
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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Postby A11M11 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:56 pm

You can’t negotiate If one side refuses to talk . The EU wants to keep a deal which has failed to be accepted by our democratic parliament 3times . If they want a deal that will be acceptable then they will have to come to the table.

Jock Gooner
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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Postby Jock Gooner » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:09 pm

What you don't like is the thought of the original referendum being overturned.

Correct !
In my opinion it would be a crying shame if having got so close to something that I have thought neccesary since Ted Heath lied his way in. That a bunch of people scared of their own shadows manage to thwart it.
I remember Peter Shore at the Oxford union stating all the reasons that we should never have joined. Tony Benn gave up a peerage and fought against it . Their warnings have over time proved to be correct.
It was never about trade , it's always been about removing sovereignty , just ask Junker who has admitted that "" when it gets serious you have to lie . Bilderberg put forward the idea of controlling Europe and floating a single currency in the 1950's . Kalergi wanted mass immigration in the 1920's . he said The man of the future will be of mixed race. Today's races and classes will gradually disappear .
The foundation and development of the E.U has always been based on these theories and despite the inevitable rascist jibes it is hard to deny that these things are happening.
It suits the power brokers behind the scenes to see Brexit being argued in purely financial terms . Deal or no deal , single market , customs union . It takes peoples eyes off of their true direction . They want control and they want to make money and we are paying through the nose so that they can get it.
I also flirted with the Liberals in my early years but later realised that although laudable their policies are frankly impracticable. They have now jumped onto the Greens patch and have become the doyens of Climate change and when that horse has run it's course they will look for another scheme to become relevant .
I actually have a Liberal MP . He's a nice man but about as much use as a pound of wet suet .Unike most politicians he was voted in to use his powers on local issues , despite his region voting 60/40 to leave he has voted against their wishes and abstained on the issue , I have met him a few times but frankly it's like talking to a wall
Good post sir. Pretty much bang on the money (sorry) when it comes to the true direction of the United States of Europe. Until our flakey friends actually understand what the EU really represents and make a decision based on that reality they are kidding themselves....unless of course they want to be part of the United States of Europe.

Gunner Rob
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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Postby Gunner Rob » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:39 pm

You can’t negotiate If one side refuses to talk . The EU wants to keep a deal which has failed to be accepted by our democratic parliament 3times . If they want a deal that will be acceptable then they will have to come to the table.
You appear to be forgetting that the UK are the ones who are wanting to leave, not the EU.

It is hardly the EUs fault that the deal they negotiated with the UK government has nor been passed by Parliament. If the UK wants another deal then they will have to back down on what they want. The EU as I have continued to say hold all the cards with regard to negotiations. Boris Johnson appears to be even more pathetic as PM than Theresa May :lol:

A11M11
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Re: The 'I told you so' EU referendum - Officially the Worst Thread Ever

Postby A11M11 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:22 am

Then we have an impasse with a legal default date.

They don't want the problems anymore than we do , it's time to assess where we are and talk again to make things more acceptable to both sides . The difference now is that we have a player batting for us rather than one that went backwards trying to find a way to leave without changing anything.


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