Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[wilson2.0]

Whilst im not optimistic, im not judging him this season. I do think he needs to clear house - Ozil, Mustafi and PEA. PEA is not in it for the long haul and keeping him an extra season is counter productive, its not even about the money i.e selling him before his contract expires. I also think Martinelli should be given a bump and start most games. He reminds me of one of those young Brazilians who can turn into a hot player before 21.

When Ozil leaves I hope we also play 4-3-3, with three attackers and 3 centre midfielders, with the wingbacks offering a bit of width, plus with three centre midfielders they can fall back and cover the advancing wingback. Im sick of this 4-2-3-1 shit with a number 10, whether it was Ozil or Cazorla. Im over this 'attacking midfielder' shit.

I think our fortunes will rest with the players Martinelli, Pepe, Guendouzi, Tierney, AMN, turn into. Everyone of them is under 22 except for Pepe who is 24. They either mature into great players and form the nucleus of the future Arsenal, or they wither which would leave us in the shitter. Because outside PEA, the only players we have that other top clubs would scramble to sign, would be Leno, Bellerin and Lacazette (Sokratis is too old).

[GoonerMuzz]

It's funny how perception can differ depending on who is seeing what, take the Burnley game we missed two absolute sitters in the space of 5 mins which if scored could have massively altered the game and result. I still dont think Arteta can change things but in his defence there is nothing he can do if the strikers aren't putting away guilt edged chances.

I'll repeat what I've said in various posts, defensively we've improved, the goal is nowhere near being peppered as much game after game like it was under latter Emery but on the other hand we have lost some of the positive attacks we had under Emery and for results to improve the strikers have to take the guilt edge chances whe they come if Arteta wants to play the way he is.

The rest of this season is academic we're nowhere near good enough currently to challenge for ECL positions, I just feel we are too inconsistent to win say 8-10 matches of the remaining games to get the points we'd need. I feel that he needs to experiment for the rest of the season and work out exactly who he wants in the squad next season and who wont fit in to his plans, get it crystalised in his mind and have the balls to tell the board who is to be gotten rid of (whether we agree with him or not).

We as supporters also need to take a breather, step back and accept that we are not the Arsenal of the 80s, 90s and early 2000s. What we need to realise is that our rose tints dont matter currently and we can kick and scream all we want but if we are to remain Arsenal supporters for the short term future our expectations need to alter.

This forum has always been good for debate even when I wasn't posting, just lurking, there was decent argument and counter argument but recently people have become massively polarised and less tolerant overall which in the current crisis with the club is understandable but let's remember we're all Arsenal supporters with different views and none of us has the absolute right view, personal opinions are just that and there is no definitive 'right one' (except mine)

[nut flush gooner]

It's funny how perception can differ depending on who is seeing what, take the Burnley game we missed two absolute sitters in the space of 5 mins which if scored could have massively altered the game and result. I still dont think Arteta can change things but in his defence there is nothing he can do if the strikers aren't putting away guilt edged chances.

I'll repeat what I've said in various posts, defensively we've improved, the goal is nowhere near being peppered as much game after game like it was under latter Emery but on the other hand we have lost some of the positive attacks we had under Emery and for results to improve the strikers have to take the guilt edge chances whe they come if Arteta wants to play the way he is.

The rest of this season is academic we're nowhere near good enough currently to challenge for ECL positions, I just feel we are too inconsistent to win say 8-10 matches of the remaining games to get the points we'd need. I feel that he needs to experiment for the rest of the season and work out exactly who he wants in the squad next season and who wont fit in to his plans, get it crystalised in his mind and have the balls to tell the board who is to be gotten rid of (whether we agree with him or not).

We as supporters also need to take a breather, step back and accept that we are not the Arsenal of the 80s, 90s and early 2000s. What we need to realise is that our rose tints dont matter currently and we can kick and scream all we want but if we are to remain Arsenal supporters for the short term future our expectations need to alter.

This forum has always been good for debate even when I wasn't posting, just lurking, there was decent argument and counter argument but recently people have become massively polarised and less tolerant overall which in the current crisis with the club is understandable but let's remember we're all Arsenal supporters with different views and none of us has the absolute right view, personal opinions are just that and there is no definitive 'right one' (except mine)

We were shit in the early/mid 80s same with the mid 90s after GG shafted us. That really isn't the point.

The issues most Arsenal fans have are the players that are getting rich beyond their wildest dreams are not fit to wear the shirt. That is down to poor recruitment and management of finances. Look at what other clubs are getting spending the same money on transfers and salaries. We used to get gems for next to no money, now we are spending £30m+ on duds.

[DB10GOONER]

It's funny how perception can differ depending on who is seeing what, take the Burnley game we missed two absolute sitters in the space of 5 mins which if scored could have massively altered the game and result. I still dont think Arteta can change things but in his defence there is nothing he can do if the strikers aren't putting away guilt edged chances.

I'll repeat what I've said in various posts, defensively we've improved, the goal is nowhere near being peppered as much game after game like it was under latter Emery but on the other hand we have lost some of the positive attacks we had under Emery and for results to improve the strikers have to take the guilt edge chances whe they come if Arteta wants to play the way he is.

The rest of this season is academic we're nowhere near good enough currently to challenge for ECL positions, I just feel we are too inconsistent to win say 8-10 matches of the remaining games to get the points we'd need. I feel that he needs to experiment for the rest of the season and work out exactly who he wants in the squad next season and who wont fit in to his plans, get it crystalised in his mind and have the balls to tell the board who is to be gotten rid of (whether we agree with him or not).

We as supporters also need to take a breather, step back and accept that we are not the Arsenal of the 80s, 90s and early 2000s. What we need to realise is that our rose tints dont matter currently and we can kick and scream all we want but if we are to remain Arsenal supporters for the short term future our expectations need to alter.

This forum has always been good for debate even when I wasn't posting, just lurking, there was decent argument and counter argument but recently people have become massively polarised and less tolerant overall which in the current crisis with the club is understandable but let's remember we're all Arsenal supporters with different views and none of us has the absolute right view, personal opinions are just that and there is no definitive 'right one' (except mine)

We were shit in the early/mid 80s same with the mid 90s after GG shafted us. That really isn't the point.

The issues most Arsenal fans have are the players that are getting rich beyond their wildest dreams are not fit to wear the shirt. That is down to poor recruitment and management of finances. Look at what other clubs are getting spending the same money on transfers and salaries. We used to get gems for next to no money, now we are spending £30m+ on duds.

Agreed. When you compare what other teams have spent and what we have spent on players over the last 5 years and what we pay them in salaries then I don't think we are being precious or entitled by thinking we should be at least pushing top four.

Yes there are other mitigating issues around the appointment of managers etc but for me we have been let down badly by the owner and his supposed transfer team. We started this shit of overpaying for and then overpaying shit players under Wenger and little has changed really. We are rotten from the top down.

In a perfect world Mustafalaugh, Xhakatard, Willock, Maitland-niles, Pepe, Kalashnikov, Mickey Tarragon and Bellend, would all be gone because they are not good enough to be at the Arsenal and Ozil would be gone because he is past it.

And before anyone gets all pissy about AM-N and Willock only being young, I say to you sometimes you can just see it in certain players and in others you just know they will be at Palace in a couple of years time. For AM-N and Willock read Walcott and Comedy Iwobi.

[augie]

It's funny how perception can differ depending on who is seeing what, take the Burnley game we missed two absolute sitters in the space of 5 mins which if scored could have massively altered the game and result. I still dont think Arteta can change things but in his defence there is nothing he can do if the strikers aren't putting away guilt edged chances.

I'll repeat what I've said in various posts, defensively we've improved, the goal is nowhere near being peppered as much game after game like it was under latter Emery but on the other hand we have lost some of the positive attacks we had under Emery and for results to improve the strikers have to take the guilt edge chances whe they come if Arteta wants to play the way he is.

The rest of this season is academic we're nowhere near good enough currently to challenge for ECL positions, I just feel we are too inconsistent to win say 8-10 matches of the remaining games to get the points we'd need. I feel that he needs to experiment for the rest of the season and work out exactly who he wants in the squad next season and who wont fit in to his plans, get it crystalised in his mind and have the balls to tell the board who is to be gotten rid of (whether we agree with him or not).

We as supporters also need to take a breather, step back and accept that we are not the Arsenal of the 80s, 90s and early 2000s. What we need to realise is that our rose tints dont matter currently and we can kick and scream all we want but if we are to remain Arsenal supporters for the short term future our expectations need to alter.

This forum has always been good for debate even when I wasn't posting, just lurking, there was decent argument and counter argument but recently people have become massively polarised and less tolerant overall which in the current crisis with the club is understandable but let's remember we're all Arsenal supporters with different views and none of us has the absolute right view, personal opinions are just that and there is no definitive 'right one' (except mine)

We were shit in the early/mid 80s same with the mid 90s after GG shafted us. That really isn't the point.

The issues most Arsenal fans have are the players that are getting rich beyond their wildest dreams are not fit to wear the shirt. That is down to poor recruitment and management of finances. Look at what other clubs are getting spending the same money on transfers and salaries. We used to get gems for next to no money, now we are spending £30m+ on duds.

Agreed. When you compare what other teams have spent and what we have spent on players over the last 5 years and what we pay them in salaries then I don't think we are being precious or entitled by thinking we should be at least pushing top four.

Yes there are other mitigating issues around the appointment of managers etc but for me we have been let down badly by the owner and his supposed transfer team. We started this shit of overpaying for and then overpaying shit players under Wenger and little has changed really. We are rotten from the top down.

In a perfect world Mustafalaugh, Xhakatard, Willock, Maitland-niles, Pepe, Kalashnikov, Mickey Tarragon and Bellend, would all be gone because they are not good enough to be at the Arsenal and Ozil would be gone because he is past it.

And before anyone gets all pissy about AM-N and Willock only being young, I say to you sometimes you can just see it in certain players and in others you just know they will be at Palace in a couple of years time. For AM-N and Willock read Walcott and Comedy Iwobi.

Would you not concede that leno, douzi, torreira, martinelli and (to a lesser extent) sokratis have been good buys, and good value purchases too. Unlike some bellend here I still believe that Tierney is going to prove a very good buy, and we also have saliba on the way as well. I don't agree that little has changed since wenger left when it came to transfers - the French cock signed over-priced shit on big wages and then could neither big a good team of them nor offload them

[LeftfootlegendGooner]

sokratis is garbage, doozie is mid table at best, Luiz is fucking garbage, tierney is Stephen Hawkins love child and will be sold in a years time or put down (and even when he did play was no better at defending than kolasinac but hey he can cross the ball).

We’re still waiting for the remaining parts of tierney to be delivered but when amazon lose something it normally stays lost.

Bellend surprised someone your age doesn’t use the word gobermouch

[augie]

Great to see "Mr couldn't score in a brothel to save his life" and the Turkish assist master (one assist this season ) are happy and waxing lyrical about how good things are under arteta

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... al-forward

[DB10GOONER]

It's funny how perception can differ depending on who is seeing what, take the Burnley game we missed two absolute sitters in the space of 5 mins which if scored could have massively altered the game and result. I still dont think Arteta can change things but in his defence there is nothing he can do if the strikers aren't putting away guilt edged chances.

I'll repeat what I've said in various posts, defensively we've improved, the goal is nowhere near being peppered as much game after game like it was under latter Emery but on the other hand we have lost some of the positive attacks we had under Emery and for results to improve the strikers have to take the guilt edge chances whe they come if Arteta wants to play the way he is.

The rest of this season is academic we're nowhere near good enough currently to challenge for ECL positions, I just feel we are too inconsistent to win say 8-10 matches of the remaining games to get the points we'd need. I feel that he needs to experiment for the rest of the season and work out exactly who he wants in the squad next season and who wont fit in to his plans, get it crystalised in his mind and have the balls to tell the board who is to be gotten rid of (whether we agree with him or not).

We as supporters also need to take a breather, step back and accept that we are not the Arsenal of the 80s, 90s and early 2000s. What we need to realise is that our rose tints dont matter currently and we can kick and scream all we want but if we are to remain Arsenal supporters for the short term future our expectations need to alter.

This forum has always been good for debate even when I wasn't posting, just lurking, there was decent argument and counter argument but recently people have become massively polarised and less tolerant overall which in the current crisis with the club is understandable but let's remember we're all Arsenal supporters with different views and none of us has the absolute right view, personal opinions are just that and there is no definitive 'right one' (except mine)

We were shit in the early/mid 80s same with the mid 90s after GG shafted us. That really isn't the point.

The issues most Arsenal fans have are the players that are getting rich beyond their wildest dreams are not fit to wear the shirt. That is down to poor recruitment and management of finances. Look at what other clubs are getting spending the same money on transfers and salaries. We used to get gems for next to no money, now we are spending £30m+ on duds.

Agreed. When you compare what other teams have spent and what we have spent on players over the last 5 years and what we pay them in salaries then I don't think we are being precious or entitled by thinking we should be at least pushing top four.

Yes there are other mitigating issues around the appointment of managers etc but for me we have been let down badly by the owner and his supposed transfer team. We started this shit of overpaying for and then overpaying shit players under Wenger and little has changed really. We are rotten from the top down.

In a perfect world Mustafalaugh, Xhakatard, Willock, Maitland-niles, Pepe, Kalashnikov, Mickey Tarragon and Bellend, would all be gone because they are not good enough to be at the Arsenal and Ozil would be gone because he is past it.

And before anyone gets all pissy about AM-N and Willock only being young, I say to you sometimes you can just see it in certain players and in others you just know they will be at Palace in a couple of years time. For AM-N and Willock read Walcott and Comedy Iwobi.

Would you not concede that leno, douzi, torreira, martinelli and (to a lesser extent) sokratis have been good buys, and good value purchases too. Unlike some bellend here I still believe that Tierney is going to prove a very good buy, and we also have saliba on the way as well. I don't agree that little has changed since wenger left when it came to transfers - the French cock signed over-priced shit on big wages and then could neither big a good team of them nor offload them

I was more referring to the continuation of overpaying and keeping a lot of the shit that Wenger signed I suppose.

For me Leno is better than Kryten Features was but jury is still out if he is good enough. Luiz is garbage. Sokratis was good but has gone alarmingly downhill. The Dozer is inconsistent but jury still out too. I'd be surprised if we get much out of Tierney tbh. Looks incredibly lightly built and is injury prone whether we like that term or not. Torriera for me is the only top class signing that has delivered. Martinelli has looked great too but is very young and could dip in form at any time.

And then there is the issue of utter gash like Xhakatard and Mustafalaugh. And the issue of the overpaid and over the hill Ozil. All still at the club and getting games.

I hope Arteta can deliver some kind of minor clear out in May but I'm not holding my breath tbh.

[SteveO 35]

It's funny how perception can differ depending on who is seeing what, take the Burnley game we missed two absolute sitters in the space of 5 mins which if scored could have massively altered the game and result. I still dont think Arteta can change things but in his defence there is nothing he can do if the strikers aren't putting away guilt edged chances.

I'll repeat what I've said in various posts, defensively we've improved, the goal is nowhere near being peppered as much game after game like it was under latter Emery but on the other hand we have lost some of the positive attacks we had under Emery and for results to improve the strikers have to take the guilt edge chances whe they come if Arteta wants to play the way he is.

The rest of this season is academic we're nowhere near good enough currently to challenge for ECL positions, I just feel we are too inconsistent to win say 8-10 matches of the remaining games to get the points we'd need. I feel that he needs to experiment for the rest of the season and work out exactly who he wants in the squad next season and who wont fit in to his plans, get it crystalised in his mind and have the balls to tell the board who is to be gotten rid of (whether we agree with him or not).

We as supporters also need to take a breather, step back and accept that we are not the Arsenal of the 80s, 90s and early 2000s. What we need to realise is that our rose tints dont matter currently and we can kick and scream all we want but if we are to remain Arsenal supporters for the short term future our expectations need to alter.

This forum has always been good for debate even when I wasn't posting, just lurking, there was decent argument and counter argument but recently people have become massively polarised and less tolerant overall which in the current crisis with the club is understandable but let's remember we're all Arsenal supporters with different views and none of us has the absolute right view, personal opinions are just that and there is no definitive 'right one' (except mine)

You're right about perceptions depending on what you see. You're not wrong of course about the early chances missed at Burnley, to which my only counter is that Jay Rodriguez missed the chance of the match and we spent the second half unable to string together 3 passes. Both viewpoints are probably correct - we look better in short bursts, but for long spells of games where this team can't cope with Arteta's style demands we look ropey as fuck.

I think when you say about step back and resetting expectations, that has been the whole basis of my defence for Dick. We certainly aren't the Arsenal of the Invincibles era or even the 08/09 team who I thought were starting to look the part before Wenger's lobotomy. Those expectations all seem to be brought up now when Arteta gets slated but just a few months ago, all of those revised expectations weren't there for Emery. Finishing 5th - 1 point off the CL places - and runners up in the EL weren't good enough. When he left we were 7th. Everyone on here to a man said it was fucking awful, unacceptable and he had to go. Now it seems like the expectations are lower.......I don't understand why. I also don't buy the argument that Dick had long enough. The previous cretin was past his sell by date for a decade, and coupled with the worst owner in the league the club has regressed to depths last seen at the end of GG's era in the mid 1990s. The difference back then was that Man U were the only opponent worthy of the name and Wenger could turn it round in just over a year with a combination of the league's best defence and a free run at the untapped French talent from their golden generation. In this day and age with a host of better opponents, and a whole bunch beneath them with better owners, it will take several years (if ever under Kroenke) to get back to anywhere near being a CL team. I think it was a miracle we nearly did it last year, and we sure as hell won't be getting anywhere close anytime soon. Maybe people will come to see that in time

[augie]

Great to see "Mr couldn't score in a brothel to save his life" and the Turkish assist master (one assist this season ) are happy and waxing lyrical about how good things are under arteta

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... al-forward

Good to see emery come back out and nail those players who are claiming how much better things are now that emery has gone

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... g-my-reign

In any club it doesn't bode well when players can undermine a manager to the point where he gets sacked and the club gets stuck with those bad apples - sadly we have too many of those type of players, but at least now they are showing how great they are under the new manager

[SteveO 35]

Great to see "Mr couldn't score in a brothel to save his life" and the Turkish assist master (one assist this season ) are happy and waxing lyrical about how good things are under arteta

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... al-forward

Good to see emery come back out and nail those players who are claiming how much better things are now that emery has gone

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... g-my-reign

In any club it doesn't bode well when players can undermine a manager to the point where he gets sacked and the club gets stuck with those bad apples - sadly we have too many of those type of players, but at least now they are showing how great they are under the new manager

Yes isn't it funny how this is being built into some story of how much more bought in the players are to Arteta's ways - lets pick two players who were on the periphery and being lined up to be shunted out, and let them talk about how much more they enjoy it now they're allowed to do fuck all every week. Can't see much evidence of the new fitness regime in Lacazette - the lazy dumpling has been a joke recently

Perhaps they should interview some of the players Emery brought into the side to see how much better they think it is now

[DB10GOONER]

Great to see "Mr couldn't score in a brothel to save his life" and the Turkish assist master (one assist this season ) are happy and waxing lyrical about how good things are under arteta

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... al-forward

Good to see emery come back out and nail those players who are claiming how much better things are now that emery has gone

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... g-my-reign

In any club it doesn't bode well when players can undermine a manager to the point where he gets sacked and the club gets stuck with those bad apples - sadly we have too many of those type of players, but at least now they are showing how great they are under the new manager

Hmmmm.... there are two sides to that coin. Why couldn't he motivate or inspire those players? At the level of financial earnings they are on you'd think money is not the prime motivator anymore and they'd like to finish their careers with some actual well you know like um medals?

I think what articles like this airbrush over is his obvious failings like the constant tinkering with the formation and system to the extent none of our players seemed to have a clue what was required of them. Also his appalling English couldn't have helped get his vision across. I liked Emery but he blew last season in spectacular fashion.

His words defending himself in that interview are actually quite damning.

"We had Champions League qualification in our grasp and it went wrong in the end. But it was a good season and we had this notion of continuing to improve. But we lost our four captains: [Laurent] Koscielny, [Petr] Cech, [Aaron] Ramsey and [Nacho] Monreal."

"It went wrong in the end". It sure fucking did. He fucked away the easiest run in to a CL qualification in years. And as for playing Kryten Features in a final the day before the chav cùnt joined the fucking oppo in a new job? For me that alone was a sacking offence ffs.

"We lost our four captains"?? What utter fucking nonsense. Just as letting the players vote for the captain was fucking nonsense. All it said to the squad was "Hey guys I'm a nice guy please like me" like some desperate geography teacher, when he should have been saying "listen you spoiled bitches here's the fucking way it's gonna be and if you don't like it you can go suck cock in the reserves".

Dick was a nice guy and in the right job a good manager but that job was not the Arsenal. And tbh I don't think Arteta is the right guy either but I'll give him as long as I gave Dick to prove me wrong.

[OneBardGooner]

I think Arteta could well be the right person for the job IF... IF He is given the financial backing by the wig wearing cuntbag so that he can buy at least 4 very good quality players especially in Defence and Mid-field. I know there are many managers (average at best) who given the right players/team could achieve results well above their perceived abilities, but I honestly think Arteta will succeed, if given the chance to buy the right players and get his tactics and playing methods instilled into the team.

Time will Tell.

[augie]

I think Arteta could well be the right person for the job IF... IF He is given the financial backing by the wig wearing cuntbag so that he can buy at least 4 very good quality players especially in Defence and Mid-field. I know there are many managers (average at best) who given the right players/team could achieve results well above their perceived abilities, but I honestly think Arteta will succeed, if given the chance to buy the right players and get his tactics and playing methods instilled into the team.

Time will Tell.

How many managers in England could say the same thing ? Chris Wilder might claim that given the squad we have, and add 4 quality players to it, then he too could lead us back to success - I don't agree with that btw, but a good manager can take what he has to work with, improve them individually and as a team, and maybe making the team better than the sum of it's individual parts. People keep knocking the quality of the squad arteta has to work with and it is a cop out for me - we are nowhere near the level of players the top teams have, but are far better than what they are showing, and it is on arteta to get the maximum from those players, before he is given money to spend on players

[Gunner Rob]

I think Arteta could well be the right person for the job IF... IF He is given the financial backing by the wig wearing cuntbag so that he can buy at least 4 very good quality players especially in Defence and Mid-field. I know there are many managers (average at best) who given the right players/team could achieve results well above their perceived abilities, but I honestly think Arteta will succeed, if given the chance to buy the right players and get his tactics and playing methods instilled into the team.

Time will Tell.

How many managers in England could say the same thing ? Chris Wilder might claim that given the squad we have, and add 4 quality players to it, then he too could lead us back to success - I don't agree with that btw, but a good manager can take what he has to work with, improve them individually and as a team, and maybe making the team better than the sum of it's individual parts. People keep knocking the quality of the squad arteta has to work with and it is a cop out for me - we are nowhere near the level of players the top teams have, but are far better than what they are showing, and it is on arteta to get the maximum from those players, before he is given money to spend on players

Yes I agree with this.

up until now I have got behind Arteta - i think it is only fair to do so with a new Arsenal manager, and whilst the results haven't been the greatest you cant knock the fact that we have only lost once since he took over.

however he does now need to back up his solid start with some wins.
fail to beat Newcastle on Sunday and I think questions will rightly start being asked.
but for now I am fully supportive