Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

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Will he ?

Have a statue erected after 30 glorious years service?
9
9%
Be a success, pick up a few trophies and put the club back on an even keel?
27
27%
Be a moderate success, before handing over to a more high profile successor?
20
20%
Be an utter fucking disaster?
44
44%
 
Total votes: 100

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SteveO 35
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by SteveO 35 »

One thing I really hope is that he takes the Europa League seriously as without a doubt it is our best chance of getting back into the CL

Liverpool and City are still streets ahead of us in terms of squad quality over a 38 game season even if we did beat both recently. The Chavs and Man Ure will outinvest us this Summer too.

Finishing in the top four in England is undoubtedly tougher than winning the Europa League. In the year Wenger reached the semi final, Atletico were the only team in the tournament who could stop us, and they did (just). The final shows you just how easy it was for them to win the trophy. Our opponents up to the semi final were Koln (who were bottom of the Bundesliga), Red Star, BATE Borisov, Ostersund, Dad's Army Milan (who were 10th in Italy), and CSKA Moscow (who were out of season). All absolute pubbers

Last year we played Qarabag, Vorskla, Sporting, BATE, Rennes, before the first half decent team in Napoli and bang average Valencia

Its a cup you can win playing a Carabao Cup team in the group stages and sweep the floor with most sides in the knockout stages with a proper team

The English teams we will be up against next season are Maureen's dwindling Spuds and Brenda's collapso kids......so haven't even got a Chelsea or Man Ure to contend with.

The Spanish teams are Villareal and Real Sociedad, in Germany its Leverkusen and Hoffenheim

This is winnable and he will do himself massive favours going all out to win it

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by Natural Born Gooner »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:00 am
One thing I really hope is that he takes the Europa League seriously as without a doubt it is our best chance of getting back into the CL

Liverpool and City are still streets ahead of us in terms of squad quality over a 38 game season even if we did beat both recently. The Chavs and Man Ure will outinvest us this Summer too.

Finishing in the top four in England is undoubtedly tougher than winning the Europa League. In the year Wenger reached the semi final, Atletico were the only team in the tournament who could stop us, and they did (just). The final shows you just how easy it was for them to win the trophy. Our opponents up to the semi final were Koln (who were bottom of the Bundesliga), Red Star, BATE Borisov, Ostersund, Dad's Army Milan (who were 10th in Italy), and CSKA Moscow (who were out of season). All absolute pubbers

Last year we played Qarabag, Vorskla, Sporting, BATE, Rennes, before the first half decent team in Napoli and bang average Valencia

Its a cup you can win playing a Carabao Cup team in the group stages and sweep the floor with most sides in the knockout stages with a proper team

The English teams we will be up against next season are Maureen's dwindling Spuds and Brenda's collapso kids......so haven't even got a Chelsea or Man Ure to contend with.

The Spanish teams are Villareal and Real Sociedad, in Germany its Leverkusen and Hoffenheim

This is winnable and he will do himself massive favours going all out to win it
It would be nice to win it and improve on our piss poor European trophy record too!

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by SteveO 35 »

Natural Born Gooner wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:43 am
SteveO 35 wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:00 am
One thing I really hope is that he takes the Europa League seriously as without a doubt it is our best chance of getting back into the CL

Liverpool and City are still streets ahead of us in terms of squad quality over a 38 game season even if we did beat both recently. The Chavs and Man Ure will outinvest us this Summer too.

Finishing in the top four in England is undoubtedly tougher than winning the Europa League. In the year Wenger reached the semi final, Atletico were the only team in the tournament who could stop us, and they did (just). The final shows you just how easy it was for them to win the trophy. Our opponents up to the semi final were Koln (who were bottom of the Bundesliga), Red Star, BATE Borisov, Ostersund, Dad's Army Milan (who were 10th in Italy), and CSKA Moscow (who were out of season). All absolute pubbers

Last year we played Qarabag, Vorskla, Sporting, BATE, Rennes, before the first half decent team in Napoli and bang average Valencia

Its a cup you can win playing a Carabao Cup team in the group stages and sweep the floor with most sides in the knockout stages with a proper team

The English teams we will be up against next season are Maureen's dwindling Spuds and Brenda's collapso kids......so haven't even got a Chelsea or Man Ure to contend with.

The Spanish teams are Villareal and Real Sociedad, in Germany its Leverkusen and Hoffenheim

This is winnable and he will do himself massive favours going all out to win it
It would be nice to win it and improve on our piss poor European trophy record too!
Absolutely - for me, it is the deciding factor in what stops us being an elite club. Not that one Europa League trophy would suddenly do that, but FFS......26 years without any kind of European trophy. In the time that has passed since that wonderful Copenhagen day in 1994, the following teams have all won at least one European trophy - Schalke, Galatasaray, Feyenoord, CSKA Moscow, Sevilla, Real Zaragoza, Lazio, Dortmund, Porto. Nobody has a divine right to be winners but we've as much right as any of those on the list !

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by GoonerMuzz »

I think he underestimated it this year and that is why we went out, hopefully he has learned from that, arguably he also hadn't fully settled in and maybe hadn't fully gauged his players yet. League performances and position aside I think he has a better angle on cup competitions as the performances against City and Chelsea showed and hopefully he and the team take that attitude into the Europa League, I'm not sure he can get the same out of them in the league but time will tell.

I said it for Emery and I'll say it for Arteta all I want is consistency, solidity, and fairly regular on par performances rather than up for City down for Villa etc.

As we are it will be difficult but not impossible to move up the league but I think any chance at the Champions league lies with the Europa not the league. Other teams are likely to strengthen more than us over the break so I dont think top 4 is viable this season......although even under Arteta it would be if we had a decent owner and didnt have Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee getting every player from the one agent :box:

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by Natural Born Gooner »

https://theathletic.com/1875792/2020/06 ... ed_article

In the intervening weeks between Premier League football stopping with his first symptoms of COVID-19 and restarting on Wednesday night at the Etihad, Mikel Arteta could never have imagined how much he would learn about management, about communication with his players, about how to transmit what he wants from his team. One thing that hasn’t changed one iota, though, is his commitment to high standards.

Last month, as the Premier League’s Project Restart was ramping up, Arsenal’s players were invited to an important conference call about the return to contact training protocols. They needed to hear all the relevant legal information before signing a document about safely stepping up for the next stage towards football’s restart. A couple of players said they couldn’t make the conference call. Arteta was unimpressed. He sent an uncompromising WhatsApp voice message in return. The gist was crystal clear: these are the standards expected and if you are not prepared to commit to these standards, then you are not the sort of player wanted at this football club. The implication was unmissable — are you in or are you out?

Six months into his life at the sharp end of football management, Arteta has had to improvise in all kinds of ways to reset the culture at Arsenal. Creating a new attitude, new playing style, new atmosphere at the training ground, new rapports with players and staff. All the while, he has been problem-solving what’s in front of him while forward planning for the next phase of changes when squad alterations allow. From the private conversations he’s had with Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang to the games he’s brought in to lift morale and the exact role he plays in transfers, this is how he has gone about it.


Throughout lockdown, Arteta has viewed the time he has been able to spend getting to know his players better from the human perspective as a valuable plus. Learning how different people react has been beneficial. Football’s closure has been an opportunity, in a sense. It has not been the easiest — Arteta admits he prefers to have that close physical contact, moving players around the pitch, catching their eye, being hands-on. But the virtual coaching and the electronic conversations have gone hand-in-hand as a means to try to pull everyone along with him and his ideas. They are all informing the bigger picture for Arteta that will help him make key decisions on the squad in both the immediate and longer term. Are you in or are you out?

Any coach in the modern game has to confront the challenge of balancing the different personalities in the dressing room. Not all within any group are as committed, as confident, as quick to learn. Getting on with different people is paramount but there are baselines Arteta won’t tolerate being crossed. He is unwavering in preaching high standards and anyone who can’t meet them won’t be one of Arteta’s trusted players for the future.

Last week, in the second and final warm-up game at the Emirates, Arsenal eased off and were beaten by Brentford. Naturally, the score didn’t really matter in what was essentially a friendly fitness exercise. But the nature of certain performances did. Arteta was angry afterwards and let people know why he was disappointed. It all made for a few more pointers for Arsenal’s head coach in his assessments of his squad.

Those at the club have been impressed with how he communicates the standards he expects. “I remember a match we lost or drew at home and didn’t have the best performance,” technical director Edu tells The Athletic. “But the way he talked to the players I really liked. It’s easy to connect to people when you win because everyone is happy, you feel amazing. But when you don’t win it shows a lot more about you as a coach.”

His role in setting the tone across the club seems to be growing. Whether it is joining in the all-staff Zoom calls to send positive vibes to the hundreds of people who work in every department or making a personal intervention on the delicate subject of Aubameyang’s contract, Arteta wants to make a difference wherever possible.

One telling example — which became particularly important during the coronavirus crisis — was his direct input in convincing the hugely popular and respected club doctor Gary O’Driscoll to backtrack on his decision to leave for Liverpool. During Arsenal’s winter break in Dubai, Arteta spent time with O’Driscoll, talking about how valued he was. There was honesty, trust and respect in the conversation. It paid off. The fact O’Driscoll was on hand during this worrying time for players, staff and their families has been extremely important.

The way Arteta has integrated himself into the culture of what happens at Arsenal on a daily basis has made such an impression. He knows, now, that attention switches back to the pressures of what is about to unfold on the pitch. For all the uplift in mood and performance since Arteta arrived to take up his first managerial job, he knows his team have achieved nothing yet.

Although Arteta demands utter professionalism from those under his charge, he is not without a sense of humour. In recent months, the club’s code of conduct has seen a playful new addition the Spaniard brought with him from City: The Wheel of Fortune. If a player commits a minor indiscretion, such as being late for a team meeting, they must spin the wheel. On the wheel are a series of forfeits, ranging from a modest fine to cleaning the dressing room, or even having to polish the captain’s car. There is one option on the wheel — the one every player hopes for — that permits a “lucky escape”. It’s just one of a series of changes Arteta has made that have lifted the mood at London Colney.

As one staff member commented on the first day the squad returned in their entirety, “I forgot how fun training is under Mikel.” That atmosphere more or less changed overnight, with a fresh voice and ideas after the difficulties that festered during the final weeks of Unai Emery’s tenure. “You saw people smile again, people who looked happy to come into work again, people happy to train again.”

In the days leading up to restart, there were a few birthdays in the squad. Sokratis Papastathopoulos and Kieran Tierney found themselves the centre of attention as Arteta began the session with a few words in honour of the birthday boy rounded off with congratulations and applause from the group. Arteta likes to have a joke at the right time and offer compliments to keep spirits high.

The way he presents his ideas with immediate clarity has been appreciated. Arteta’s personality shone through from day one. He did the rounds, introducing himself with strong fundamental messages, those non-negotiables he expresses with no room for misunderstanding. Nobody could miss the main points about how he likes things done — with a mix of positivity, drive and determination. He made the kind of impression that makes people around a club want to work for him.

The leadership at Arsenal certainly feel they have made the right decision. The club’s director Josh Kroenke had several conversations with Arteta before interviewing him in person and stays in touch with the man he hopes can bring success back to the club. The pair are in WhatsApp contact, have the occasional FaceTime call and Kroenke also hosted a virtual group meeting with the players during the break from football. Ahead of the game with Manchester City, he told Arteta he hoped that the trying times of the past few months would bring them closer together.

“When Mikel and I sat down one-on-one to talk about him coming to Arsenal, he walked me through things that he’d seen on the pitch and took me through several things he would like to implement from a coaching standpoint,” Kroenke tells The Athletic. “But really what we spoke about was club culture and setting a new tone. He told me some of the thoughts that he had and ideas they had done at Man City.

“It’s going to take some time — we’ve got a long road ahead of us. But the culture is changing. I’ve seen several club legends talk positively about Mikel and some of the values he has brought back to the club. I think that’s what gets us the most excited, seeing the values he’s trying to instil back into some of the players.

“Culture becomes cliche at times but it’s a very real thing. Mikel is making an imprint on the club that should hopefully play out over the next several years with improved results on the pitch, but it starts with a foundation.”

Edu, meanwhile, had not met Arteta before his job interview but echoes Kroenke when he says it was the coach’s personality that shone through.

“My first conversation with him was not about football and that’s what I really loved,” Edu adds. “It was about concepts, respect, people and staff but not football. My beliefs and his beliefs are the same. We were talking about life, about family, how important it is for the players to understand the importance of being together and respecting the club. After that conversation I was really surprised — we connected straight away with our ideas, philosophy and lifestyle. So before we went through the technical part, I felt he was a special guy.

“After that, we went to football. I explained to him the team we had, the system we played, the system we believe we can play in the future, how we see the team. I did a presentation to him about our squad and then listened to his thinking. He was really excited. It’s important to give the guy you are interviewing the real picture of what we have. And then there was a presentation by him to show me a little bit about his philosophy. Then we, together, started to create a plan. We interviewed a lot of people and that was a very beautiful experience for me, less than six months into the job myself. You have to get to know the person, not just the coach. You see his family, his children, his character as a father and husband. That what I call the base. He has a very, very, very beautiful base.”

It helped Arteta that when he arrived, he found some immediate allies. Among the staff, many were fond of the former midfielder from his playing days and keen for him to return as manager, while players such as Mesut Ozil, Hector Bellerin and Calum Chambers had previously been team-mates. For any coach having to build a load of new relationships, having some that have a level of understanding already in place is a help, especially with the likes of Ozil and Bellerin, who are influential in the dressing room. The players tend not to use the term “boss”, which was the traditional greeting for Arteta’s predecessors. Now it’s “Mister” or “Mikel”.

After taking charge at the end of December, Arteta swiftly established a sense of routine. Having spent the first couple of months in rented accommodation, he has now moved his family into a home which is en route between the training ground and stadium. In Manchester, he had a designated “football room”, equipped with laptops, a projector and tactical boards.

At the start of the day, the tech-savvy Arteta receives training data and fitness information on his phone before he even gets to work. On a typical day pre-coronavirus, his staff would arrive at the training ground at around 7.30am for breakfast. They’d then meet in Arteta’s office (there’s not much personal stuff in there yet) to go over the morning’s session, having made a plan the previous day. The doctor would update the staff on any medical issues and then the players arrive at 9.45am to prepare. There are pre-training meetings with individuals or positional units before the team congregate at 11am for Arteta to go over clips and key messages. They train, and then there are more meetings with individuals or smaller groups. The players leave and the coaches set about planning the next day’s session.


Plans have been adjusted this week ahead of restart, though. Training has been moved to 5pm to get the players’ bodies more prepared for the 8.15pm kick-off in Manchester.

During lockdown, the modus operandi clearly needed to be redrawn in a more radical way. Arteta and his assistants remained in touch with every senior squad member, setting tactical tasks such as analysing entire matches or specific clips. There were individual meetings, group meetings and unit meetings — the goalkeepers, for example, were asked to pay specific attention to their starting position as Arteta intends to involve them more as Arsenal play out from the back.

Head of performance Shad Forsythe co-ordinated delivering fitness equipment and training programmes to the squad. Online yoga sessions were set up which the likes of Bellerin, Holding and Bukayo Saka took part in. Coaching staff also reached out to players on loan such as Emile Smith-Rowe.

His two assistants have quickly established roles within the set-up: Steve Round is more focused on trying to establish an elite culture and helping Arteta navigate the personal relationships that come with the job. Albert Stuivenberg’s emphasis is on the tactical and technical side. Both men are capable and experienced coaches, and the novice Arteta has understandably sought to surround himself with people who will challenge and push him. The club were keen for Freddie Ljungberg to be retained as well.

Arteta is someone who is interested in diverse thinking: during lockdown, he was part of online webinars with Los Angeles Rams coach Sean McVay, England rugby union boss Eddie Jones and even a US military general with experience in Afghanistan.

Arteta is relieved to get back on the training pitch, where he is arguably at his best. Players have been impressed by how he balances simple messaging with precise detail. An example is found in how Arsenal play out from the back. Previously, they merely passed the ball around, often before they came under any pressure — under Arteta, they are under instruction to commit an opposition player before making a pass, thus taking a man out of the game. He is focusing on co-ordinating the press, ensuring players remain switched on out of possession. It is simple, it is detailed, it is a plan they can believe in.

His facility for language makes communication easier. If Arsenal’s South American contingent require a translation, he can provide it. If Alexandre Lacazette requires some extra detail in French, Arteta can oblige. “Everyone knows exactly what he means,” a player says. “That’s key and makes everyone feel at ease, so there’s not much confusion within the squad. It’s actually amazing to see — he literally goes from one player to another and everyone is on the same wavelength.”

His English is, of course, perfect and it’s enabled him to strike up an easy understanding with Arsenal’s academy graduates. Arteta recognises that the youngsters are arguably more used to playing the style of football he wants to implement than certain senior players, and are more malleable, too. The minutes the likes of Eddie Nketiah and Saka have already accumulated tell their own story.

Arteta’s popularity extends beyond the playing squad. Although his predecessor Emery was generally respected at London Colney, his struggles with English meant he was inherently a more withdrawn character. Arteta is quite the opposite. “Mikel wouldn’t see you across the other side of the restaurant at the training ground and wave with his hand,” explains one staff member. “He will get up, walk across, shake your hand and see how you are. If he’s busy, he’ll tell you and say he’ll come for a chat in half an hour. That makes an impression on people.”

When Arteta first joined the club, he took Round and Stuivenberg around the club’s Highbury House offices. He shook every staff member by the hand and impressed upon them the importance of rallying behind the club. He made a speech on every floor, talking to almost 300 employees. It was the same at the training ground at Colney, where he spoke to a vast amount of staff and regularly pops his head into offices in a way that Arsene Wenger didn’t.

His past with Pep Guardiola means a degree of comparison is inevitable. They share some of the same mannerisms — the expressive hand gestures, the latin temper. Perhaps more interesting is an observed shared trait with former Arsenal manager Wenger: a gift for leadership, a natural magnetism. In the words of one source: “Mikel has that ‘Arsene’ way of getting you to want to follow him.”

While Arsenal’s coach and captain enjoy a harmonious relationship now, Arteta arrived at Arsenal with some reservations about Aubameyang.

The concerns stemmed from Arteta’s time working alongside Guardiola at Manchester City. City had lined up a deal to bring Aubameyang to England, only for Guardiola to have a change of heart late in the negotiations. At the time, Aubameyang was agitating for a transfer away from Borussia Dortmund and with troubling stories circulating about his lifestyle and professional conduct, the coach opted against pursuing the deal. City’s football director Txiki Begiristain was left to apologise to a disappointed Aubameyang.

Guardiola was not the first high-profile coach to question Aubameyang’s commitment. When Sven Mislintat brought him from Saint-Etienne to Dortmund, Jurgen Klopp queried whether the exuberant forward with diamond-studded boots had the competitive instincts he considered a prerequisite. Klopp soon discovered Aubameyang’s adornments are just that: a touch of expressive embellishment on a fiercely-driven character.

Within weeks of arriving at Arsenal, Arteta sat down with Aubameyang. In typically direct fashion, he told him that while he’d initially harboured doubts over the player’s professionalism, they had been dispelled. The way Aubameyang trained, played and conducted himself won Arteta over, and he assured him he would remain as his captain. In February, Arteta called the Gabonese forward the club’s “most important player” — a public show of faith to go with the private affirmation.

Initially, Arteta was content to let the club handle Aubameyang’s contract negotiations. As the situation has become more critical, with the player’s importance growing as the length of time on his deal dwindles, that has changed. Arteta has seen fit to personally intervene — to try and use the bond he has forged with his top scorer to convince him to stay. The coronavirus crisis has had an impact on the negotiations that extends beyond finances: Aubameyang’s father, Pierre-Francois, looks after his son’s interests and prefers to meet in person, rather than remotely. Until recently, that has not been possible.

If Arteta can convince Aubameyang to stay on and lead Arsenal into this new era, it will cement his reputation as a problem-solver for Arsenal’s executive team. Not only did he talk O’Driscoll into staying and help Granit Xhaka want to stay for at least the rest of this season, but he also addressed the squad to urge them to accept the club’s proposed pay cut. Some players were uncomfortable with the coach stepping in on the wage cut issue — they feared refusal to comply might have implications for first-team selection. Nevertheless, it surely speaks to Arteta’s powers of persuasion that the vast majority of the squad ultimately agreed to the cut. Elite organisations are built on trust and the players appear to have placed significant trust in Arteta.

In the final few years of Wenger’s reign, there was a squad planning committee comprised of Wenger, chief executive Ivan Gazidis, negotiator Dick Law, and scouts Steve Rowley and Francis Cagigao. There have been changes to how that set-up functions since then — as manager, Wenger was involved in recruitment on a day-to-day basis. Scouts became accustomed to receiving calls or texts from him in the early hours of the morning as he trawled through footage of foreign games.

As head coach, Arteta has less autonomy than Wenger had. He joins Edu, Huss Fahmy, Raul Sanllehi, and Vinai Venkatesham in the current committee — sometimes the scouting department are included, sometimes not. The board and owners KSE are consulted on any significant expenditure.

It’s the club who determine which positions Arsenal will target, trying to take a long-term view over the next 18-24 months. With the intensity of the modern fixture schedule — particularly in the current, condensed circumstances — Arteta himself is unlikely to make regular scouting trips to watch potential signings. He relies instead on reports from the club’s scouting department, now led by Cagigao, and the internal analytics team.

Arteta’s input is about suitability: if Arsenal require a new full-back, what sort of full-back suits his purposes? Sometimes, a deal will present itself through the executive team’s contact-led approach. In the case of Cedric Soares, elements of the deal were already in place and all that was required was Arteta’s approval. As it happens, Cedric hasn’t had much luck: having arrived injured, he’s subsequently had to undergo surgery after breaking his nose in an accidental collision with Saka.

Fortunately, Arteta and the wider recruitment team have a shared view of what constitutes an Arsenal player: someone comfortable in possession, who can help Arteta dictate the game. Emery talked of wanting a team of protagonists — Arteta is determined to deliver it.

Edu explains: “Mikel has to be involved in recruitment, he must. We talk about what we need, the characteristics of the players, the system we’re going to play and then I start the process internally. That’s my role. If he has names, if he advises or wants advice on players, that’s fine. If he wants to talk to the other guys (like scouts) of course he will talk to them, but normally that’s my process. That’s why the relationship between us needs to be very strong. I have to understand his points and he has to understand the club’s points. Then we build everything together — that’s the main point.”

There is still a long way to go before that goal is achieved. Arsenal appear more resilient under Arteta but there has been a trade-off. Arsenal are not yet the attacking force the new coach hopes to build. In the final third, there’s still a huge reliance on the efficient brilliance of Aubameyang. The Europa League exit against Olympiakos showed familiar psychological frailties and Arteta himself is acutely aware he has achieved nothing of consequence yet. Arsenal remain ninth in the Premier League. Two months into Emery’s reign, Arsenal fans hubristically sang, “We’ve got our Arsenal back”. This time, there is inevitably more circumspection.

Yet there is no doubt the new coach has brought with him a gust of optimism. Much of that can be attributed to the presence of someone in the dugout who is familiar, who resonates and relates to the club. But there is also a conviction in Arteta that inspires belief. It was present in the rousing speech he gave ahead of the victory over Manchester United on New Year’s Day, and in the public disciplining of Matteo Guendouzi after a misdemeanour in Dubai. In a squad meeting on June 12, Arteta looked his players in the eyes and told them the club needed a change in attitude. That will be reflected in his team selection for the trip to Manchester. In that meeting he explained it’s no longer acceptable to say that on their day, they can beat anyone. It should, Arteta insisted, be their day every day. So: are they in or are they out?
Good article even though it's from before the Man City debacle. I especially liked the bolded bit in the first paragraph. Shades of GG!

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SteveO 35
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by SteveO 35 »

I've read lots of articles like the one above before, and what I would say is that players soon spit the dummy under any manager when things aren't going their way, but are quick to buy in when they are. When Emery first joined I remember everyone to a man commenting on how the high press style (which disappeared), the attention to details, the energy from the touchline etc were all things that had the players bought in to a new approach. When results drop and certain players don't fit - as is inevitable with any manager - that's the test. It was only this season we heard tales of players piss taking and becoming bored with Emery's training etc.

It has been the same with Ing-er-lund managers for generations. I remember Capello hailed as the new messiah and when we breezed through qualifying all the players commented on the professionalism, attention to detail etc. One shit world cup later and Captain Chav alienated and soon there were tales of training becoming boring, the regime too strict etc. It was much the same with Sven - hailed a genius after taking over from the tactically naive Keegan, but a few poor results and all the shit about lack of passion and buy-in from the players came back

At some point Arteta will face those challenges next season - a run of poor form, 2 or 3 players left out of the side as he works out who truly buys in and who doesn't. As well as doing it to a kid like Guendouzi or Maitland-Niles, he may well need to do it with a Xhaka, Mustafi, Lacazette if they step out of line and that will be the true test of his credentials.

If he can manage through a down cycle like that and emerge stronger, get us back into the top six in the league and competitive in the cups, then I will be the first to admit that for a novice manager, I'd say that he's done a great job and proven many of us wrong. For me Wenger created this wet blanket culture at the club where being a loser was ok as long as you were 'an intellingent boy' and 'efficient' and all the other bullshit adjectives he used to justify it. I think Emery had started to rid the club of some of the 'never will be's' and 'not good enoughs', and Arteta needs to finish that bulldozing project and rid of us of the rest of the shit that still takes up first team squad places and a huge outlay in wages. I certainly hope he does just that and does become GG/Pep rolled into one!

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by Nos89 »

He's already achieved a wenger style cup win to salvage a very poor season. It is a good cup win and give these players confidence for next season as they beat teams that finished above them.
Arteta does seem to be representing The Arsenal philosophy from our Highbury days and not so much since 2006. The football may at times be painful but it is precise and clinical. The emphasis he has put on organising the team defensively heralds back to prime Graham era, and it is a relief.

Arteta has already shown that he can handle player tantrums, not only with the young players but also with the older ones. Lacazette who does come across as being prone to spitting his dummy out has been managed really well by Arteta since the re-start. Starting Eddie ahead of him, and then persistently substituting him for Eddie is a clear sign to Lacazette that he has a direct replacement. It certainly improved Lacazette's performances which got him the Cup Final start.

I'm hoping Willian will help guide Martinelli to focus on establishing himself when he returns from injury. There does seem to be a bit of doubt in Arteta's mind of Martinelli's commitment to the cause, especially after the player seemed more determine to play for Brazil in Olympic qualifying matches than with Arsenal during a tough run of fixtures.

Despite finishing in our lowest league position in 25 years had the club not changed the manager we were heading for a much lower position. I think we were 14th when Arteta took over, 6 points off the relegation places. Finishing in eighth probably was as high as we deserved and that is down to Arteta stabilising the club and the defensive set up. Winning the cup is a bonus for the supporters. There will be no pressure on Arteta to win a trophy next season like there will be on Lampard and Solkjaer as he already has one in the cabinet. The demand will be on returning to the Champions League and we have two ways of reaching it. Personally, I'd like us to win the Europa League to qualify as it takes us straight into the group stages, without the jeopardy of a qualifying match plus we are in desperate need of some European silverware.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by nut flush gooner »

SteveO 35 wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:54 pm
I've read lots of articles like the one above before, and what I would say is that players soon spit the dummy under any manager when things aren't going their way, but are quick to buy in when they are. When Emery first joined I remember everyone to a man commenting on how the high press style (which disappeared), the attention to details, the energy from the touchline etc were all things that had the players bought in to a new approach. When results drop and certain players don't fit - as is inevitable with any manager - that's the test. It was only this season we heard tales of players piss taking and becoming bored with Emery's training etc.

It has been the same with Ing-er-lund managers for generations. I remember Capello hailed as the new messiah and when we breezed through qualifying all the players commented on the professionalism, attention to detail etc. One shit world cup later and Captain Chav alienated and soon there were tales of training becoming boring, the regime too strict etc. It was much the same with Sven - hailed a genius after taking over from the tactically naive Keegan, but a few poor results and all the shit about lack of passion and buy-in from the players came back

At some point Arteta will face those challenges next season - a run of poor form, 2 or 3 players left out of the side as he works out who truly buys in and who doesn't. As well as doing it to a kid like Guendouzi or Maitland-Niles, he may well need to do it with a Xhaka, Mustafi, Lacazette if they step out of line and that will be the true test of his credentials.

If he can manage through a down cycle like that and emerge stronger, get us back into the top six in the league and competitive in the cups, then I will be the first to admit that for a novice manager, I'd say that he's done a great job and proven many of us wrong. For me Wenger created this wet blanket culture at the club where being a loser was ok as long as you were 'an intellingent boy' and 'efficient' and all the other bullshit adjectives he used to justify it. I think Emery had started to rid the club of some of the 'never will be's' and 'not good enoughs', and Arteta needs to finish that bulldozing project and rid of us of the rest of the shit that still takes up first team squad places and a huge outlay in wages. I certainly hope he does just that and does become GG/Pep rolled into one!
That's a fair comment, but when the shit hits the fan it tell's you everything you need to know about a manager, and his ability to steer a ship through stormy waters. This season was revealing post lockdown with the drinks breaks, every time a camera was panned to Arteta he was going into one with his players. It didn't matter whether we were winning, losing or drawing. I think Arteta is a very underatted man.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by goonersid »

nut flush gooner wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 5:33 am
SteveO 35 wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:54 pm
I've read lots of articles like the one above before, and what I would say is that players soon spit the dummy under any manager when things aren't going their way, but are quick to buy in when they are. When Emery first joined I remember everyone to a man commenting on how the high press style (which disappeared), the attention to details, the energy from the touchline etc were all things that had the players bought in to a new approach. When results drop and certain players don't fit - as is inevitable with any manager - that's the test. It was only this season we heard tales of players piss taking and becoming bored with Emery's training etc.

It has been the same with Ing-er-lund managers for generations. I remember Capello hailed as the new messiah and when we breezed through qualifying all the players commented on the professionalism, attention to detail etc. One shit world cup later and Captain Chav alienated and soon there were tales of training becoming boring, the regime too strict etc. It was much the same with Sven - hailed a genius after taking over from the tactically naive Keegan, but a few poor results and all the shit about lack of passion and buy-in from the players came back

At some point Arteta will face those challenges next season - a run of poor form, 2 or 3 players left out of the side as he works out who truly buys in and who doesn't. As well as doing it to a kid like Guendouzi or Maitland-Niles, he may well need to do it with a Xhaka, Mustafi, Lacazette if they step out of line and that will be the true test of his credentials.

If he can manage through a down cycle like that and emerge stronger, get us back into the top six in the league and competitive in the cups, then I will be the first to admit that for a novice manager, I'd say that he's done a great job and proven many of us wrong. For me Wenger created this wet blanket culture at the club where being a loser was ok as long as you were 'an intellingent boy' and 'efficient' and all the other bullshit adjectives he used to justify it. I think Emery had started to rid the club of some of the 'never will be's' and 'not good enoughs', and Arteta needs to finish that bulldozing project and rid of us of the rest of the shit that still takes up first team squad places and a huge outlay in wages. I certainly hope he does just that and does become GG/Pep rolled into one!
That's a fair comment, but when the shit hits the fan it tell's you everything you need to know about a manager, and his ability to steer a ship through stormy waters. This season was revealing post lockdown with the drinks breaks, every time a camera was panned to Arteta he was going into one with his players. It didn't matter whether we were winning, losing or drawing. I think Arteta is a very underatted man.
Arghh, where did my post go ?

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by DB10GOONER »

goonersid wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:39 am

Arghh, where did my post go ?
Did you forget to post it? :lol: :wink:

LeftfootlegendGooner
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by LeftfootlegendGooner »

DB10GOONER wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:50 am
goonersid wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:39 am

Arghh, where did my post go ?
Did you forget to post it? :lol: :wink:
Alhzeimers protest march

"What do we want?!"

"CHANGE!"

"When do we want it?"

"Want what?"

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goonersid
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by goonersid »

LeftfootlegendGooner wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:45 pm
DB10GOONER wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:50 am
goonersid wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:39 am

Arghh, where did my post go ?
Did you forget to post it? :lol: :wink:
Alhzeimers protest march

"What do we want?!"

"CHANGE!"

"When do we want it?"

"Want what?"
I sat and wrote it with a thumping hangover, but hadn’t logged in, so it must have deleted!
With hindsight, it was a load of shite and not worth writing again. :lol:

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by mcdowell42 »

🔴 Set-piece specialist Andreas Georgson (see @sr_collings) started at Arsenal yesterday
🔴 #AFC also appointing new analyst
🔴 Assistant GK coach Sal Bibbo exits

Backroom team @gunnerblog wrote about @TheAthleticUK in Feb continues to evolve under Arteta
https://t.co/Ig018TJp0F

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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by Natural Born Gooner »


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DB10GOONER
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Re: Mikel Arteta, success or failure?

Post by DB10GOONER »

LeftfootlegendGooner wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:45 pm
DB10GOONER wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:50 am
goonersid wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:39 am

Arghh, where did my post go ?
Did you forget to post it? :lol: :wink:
Alhzeimers protest march

"What do we want?!"

"CHANGE!"

"When do we want it?"

"Want what?"
:lol:

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