Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[augie]

I sincerely hope Arteta spends the next decade making me look like a mug for writing him off.

Fulham are dreadful but we were very good in a no-fuss way.

Agreed on both counts

[gooner265]

In Arteta I trust 1000%. A revolution is starting boys and girls.

All fine and dandy, but when we had a bad spell I wonder will he still retain the support of the fans with xhaka and elninny in midfield, and saka being the waterboy
By all accounts maitland-niles, bellend and laca are all available for sale, and yet all 3 started yesterday

Lets also acknowledge that while yesterday was a very commanding and impressive performance for our first game of the season, it was against a team that is odds on to be relegated this season

Augie it's almost as if you are waiting for us to fail to prove a point. Yesterday wasn't about the opposition it was about building a platform, yes we will have tough phases during the season but this isn't a 6,12 or 18 month project its a 3 year one. And can you not acknowledge that during our succesful spells there were bang average players in the squad to fulfill a specific role (Kevin Richardson, David Hillier, Oleg Luzhny, Nelson Vivas etc etc). Arteta seems to see something in Elneny that makes him of use for the coming season, again we have to trust his judgement.

I would be highly surprised if these players are still at the club in 2 seasons time, that includes Xhaka.

A point I made yesterday on the match thread - I actually said that in some way yesterday could have been a harder game for us than for fulham cos a lack of preperation hurts footballers (us) more than workers (them), so I was happy with the professional attitude and performance we gave. What I am nowhere doing however, is getting way ahead of myself (the 1000% comment) on the back of 1 performance against a team very likely to go down.

The point I made about team selection is that arteta has better players at his disposal and yet is choosing to play grade A donkeys like xhaka and el ninny - are you telling me the fact that arteta views el ninny as better than ceballos, torreira and guendouzi doesnt concern you ? I dont know any other club in the top half of the league that would even consider picking xhaka in their first 11, and I doubt if there is a club in the league that would want el ninny For me saka is a million miles better than pepe, but yet arteta doesnt seem to rate him as highly given that he hasnt got a game in the cup semi final or final, and didnt get on yesterday either. As you know, I have real concerns that arteta doesnt believe or trust the young players and they are the easy ones to cast aside and this is another baffling decision imo

Btw, lumping richardson in with crazy horse luzhny, the luggage thief and vivas is beyond insulting - richardson came to us as an experienced player who had won a league and quietly did a great job for us

Agree with this , Richardson was outstanding for us and a key player in our title win , especially when Davis was banned for 8 matches.

I think Willian will be great for Saka who has only just turned 19 remember , it's a long season and we don't want him ruined by overplaying him as we did Wilshire. I'm not convinced with Nelson yet , but they will all get their opportunity , I do not believe for one minute Arteta is against young players, he has signed a young centre back and also looks like we may get Auaour as well, also he clearly likes Eddie and has played him if front of Laca several times.
There is a lot of work to be done but Arteta excites me and he doesn't take any prisoners either hence Guendouzi and Ozil not i the squad Saturday.

[g88ner]

The point I made about team selection is that arteta has better players at his disposal and yet is choosing to play grade A donkeys like xhaka and el ninny - are you telling me the fact that arteta views el ninny as better than ceballos, torreira and guendouzi doesnt concern you ? I dont know any other club in the top half of the league that would even consider picking xhaka in their first 11, and I doubt if there is a club in the league that would want el ninny For me saka is a million miles better than pepe, but yet arteta doesnt seem to rate him as highly given that he hasnt got a game in the cup semi final or final, and didnt get on yesterday either. As you know, I have real concerns that arteta doesnt believe or trust the young players and they are the easy ones to cast aside and this is another baffling decision imo

I should be pleased you're at least calling Arteta by his name instead of cone man, but FFS.... El Ninny?

I think you're great augie and you certainly have some interesting view points. Must admit though, I seem to disagree with the vast majority of it

Regarding the highlighted bit above, I find that statement extremely irritating

Firstly, Arteta has only every picked Elneny once ahead of Ceballos since he became manager, so I can't help feeling you're being way too fucking premature to call it a "fact" that Arteta thinks Elneny is better than Ceballos

Secondly, Elneny started the community shield and Ceballos has barely trained/played since he came back on loan a week ago from Madrid, so I'm surprised that you're surprised that he didn't walk straight back in

Thirdly, Guendouzi is being frozen out so why the fuck would him being left out for Elneny mean anything? - you might as well say that Arteta is growing daffodils in his garden therefore he rates flowers ahead of Guendouzi. There's no correlation at all as Guendouzi has been frozen out for non-footballing reasons.

As for Torreira... he's clearly looking for a move and we're clearly happy to cash in. Again, that's not related to the Elneny situation.

Anyway, I actually like Elneny

[augie]

The point I made about team selection is that arteta has better players at his disposal and yet is choosing to play grade A donkeys like xhaka and el ninny - are you telling me the fact that arteta views el ninny as better than ceballos, torreira and guendouzi doesnt concern you ? I dont know any other club in the top half of the league that would even consider picking xhaka in their first 11, and I doubt if there is a club in the league that would want el ninny For me saka is a million miles better than pepe, but yet arteta doesnt seem to rate him as highly given that he hasnt got a game in the cup semi final or final, and didnt get on yesterday either. As you know, I have real concerns that arteta doesnt believe or trust the young players and they are the easy ones to cast aside and this is another baffling decision imo

I should be pleased you're at least calling Arteta by his name instead of cone man, but FFS.... El Ninny?

I think you're great augie and you certainly have some interesting view points. Must admit though, I seem to disagree with the vast majority of it

Regarding the highlighted bit above, I find that statement extremely irritating

Firstly, Arteta has only every picked Elneny once ahead of Ceballos since he became manager, so I can't help feeling you're being way too fucking premature to call it a "fact" that Arteta thinks Elneny is better than Ceballos

Secondly, Elneny started the community shield and Ceballos has barely trained/played since he came back on loan a week ago from Madrid, so I'm surprised that you're surprised that he didn't walk straight back in

Thirdly, Guendouzi is being frozen out so why the fuck would him being left out for Elneny mean anything? - you might as well say that Arteta is growing daffodils in his garden therefore he rates flowers ahead of Guendouzi. There's no correlation at all as Guendouzi has been frozen out for non-footballing reasons.

As for Torreira... he's clearly looking for a move and we're clearly happy to cash in. Again, that's not related to the Elneny situation.

Anyway, I actually like Elneny

Buddy I never mind you disagreeing with me or calling me out as you see fit cos you do it in a respectful way (even if I do see you as a rose tinter ).

Anyway I went through my post again, and fail to see where I used the word fact anywhere

I dont rate elneny (that better ? ) - dont get me wrong cos I think that he is ok, but ok shouldnt be good enough for a club like ours. I'm not saying that I rate ceballos as an outstanding talent (though I dont knock him as much as rodders), but I do feel that even at 50% he is better than elneny, plus he had been training away with madrid so fitness wise he should have been ok. Lastly on ceballos, I prefer to have balance on every line on the team and with the formation we are playing right now, that means we should have one link man/creator alongside one CDM - maybe it is a sign that arteta doesnt think either xhaka or elneny are good enough to do the defensive job on their own, but two defensive midfielders might have worked against fulham, but I think our front 3 will need more in the tougher games.

Re guendouzi and torreira - yes it is obvious that both are on their way out (despite public words suggesting otherwise on guendouzi), but if that automatically rules out playing them, why would we play bellend, maitland-niles and laca when it is almost certain that we are hoping to sell at least one and maybe two of them ?

[DB10GOONER]

We have had a few "I told you so" merchants on here but augie ain't one of them. And I've butted heads with him on numerous occasions God knows - but one thing I've never sensed with augie is an ego-driven agenda.

A bit unfair lads.

Tbh your right here DB10, but I find it hard coming onto this forum when despite whats happened over the last three months its still doom and gloom. I think forums may not be the thing they once were, with Facebook and Whatsapp groups starting to spring up and it's amazing the contrast in sentiment. We have a WhatsApp group of 14 most of whom season ticket holders, yet the vibe from that group is that Arteta is a man we really do trust and back 100%. The club took a gamble with him, and honestly, I can't think of another manager I would rather have right now.

Still, a lot of work to do but is it really a crime to be optimistic for a change that things are improving.

I agree there is nothing wrong with some positivity - God knows this forum is long overdue! I guess a lot of are thinking we've been stung before though.

For me I didn't want Arteta. But he has improved us and won a trophy in his first half season and I am now very quietly starting to think he might just be the real deal long term. I'm hoping he is, as I liked him as a player, and he seems to be a quiet professional type - the polar opposite of the moron up the lane!

[nut flush gooner]

We have had a few "I told you so" merchants on here but augie ain't one of them. And I've butted heads with him on numerous occasions God knows - but one thing I've never sensed with augie is an ego-driven agenda.

A bit unfair lads.

Tbh your right here DB10, but I find it hard coming onto this forum when despite whats happened over the last three months its still doom and gloom. I think forums may not be the thing they once were, with Facebook and Whatsapp groups starting to spring up and it's amazing the contrast in sentiment. We have a WhatsApp group of 14 most of whom season ticket holders, yet the vibe from that group is that Arteta is a man we really do trust and back 100%. The club took a gamble with him, and honestly, I can't think of another manager I would rather have right now.

Still, a lot of work to do but is it really a crime to be optimistic for a change that things are improving.

I agree there is nothing wrong with some positivity - God knows this forum is long overdue! I guess a lot of are thinking we've been stung before though.

For me I didn't want Arteta. But he has improved us and won a trophy in his first half season and I am now very quietly starting to think he might just be the real deal long term. I'm hoping he is, as I liked him as a player, and he seems to be a quiet professional type - the polar opposite of the moron up the lane!

Yeah it's a case of once bitten. But one thing I took away from Saturdays game was the team played with a swagger that I haven't seen away from home (even against relegation fodder) for a long time. Arteta wasn't my first choice either, but it wasn't Maureen for sure. We well and truly dodged a bullet there.

First game and hes moaning about fixture congestion.

[John F]

We have had a few "I told you so" merchants on here but augie ain't one of them. And I've butted heads with him on numerous occasions God knows - but one thing I've never sensed with augie is an ego-driven agenda.

A bit unfair lads.

Tbh your right here DB10, but I find it hard coming onto this forum when despite whats happened over the last three months its still doom and gloom. I think forums may not be the thing they once were, with Facebook and Whatsapp groups starting to spring up and it's amazing the contrast in sentiment. We have a WhatsApp group of 14 most of whom season ticket holders, yet the vibe from that group is that Arteta is a man we really do trust and back 100%. The club took a gamble with him, and honestly, I can't think of another manager I would rather have right now.

Still, a lot of work to do but is it really a crime to be optimistic for a change that things are improving.

I agree there is nothing wrong with some positivity - God knows this forum is long overdue! I guess a lot of are thinking we've been stung before though.

For me I didn't want Arteta. But he has improved us and won a trophy in his first half season and I am now very quietly starting to think he might just be the real deal long term. I'm hoping he is, as I liked him as a player, and he seems to be a quiet professional type - the polar opposite of the moron up the lane!

I have a similar view on Arteta and it would appear negative to criticise him with the improvement s to the team he has made but I do think Augie raises some good points especially about Sak a and Martinelli. Saka has done nothing wrong but since he signed his contract he barely gets a decent run out and when he does he gets played out of position.Martinelli was also not getting time on the pitch before his injury.My worry is that the lack of game time could start to destroy their confidence and we end up losing two very good prospects.

[goonersid]

We have had a few "I told you so" merchants on here but augie ain't one of them. And I've butted heads with him on numerous occasions God knows - but one thing I've never sensed with augie is an ego-driven agenda.

A bit unfair lads.

Tbh your right here DB10, but I find it hard coming onto this forum when despite whats happened over the last three months its still doom and gloom. I think forums may not be the thing they once were, with Facebook and Whatsapp groups starting to spring up and it's amazing the contrast in sentiment. We have a WhatsApp group of 14 most of whom season ticket holders, yet the vibe from that group is that Arteta is a man we really do trust and back 100%. The club took a gamble with him, and honestly, I can't think of another manager I would rather have right now.

Still, a lot of work to do but is it really a crime to be optimistic for a change that things are improving.

I agree there is nothing wrong with some positivity - God knows this forum is long overdue! I guess a lot of are thinking we've been stung before though.

For me I didn't want Arteta. But he has improved us and won a trophy in his first half season and I am now very quietly starting to think he might just be the real deal long term. I'm hoping he is, as I liked him as a player, and he seems to be a quiet professional type - the polar opposite of the moron up the lane!

I have a similar view on Arteta and it would appear negative to criticise him with the improvement s to the team he has made but I do think Augie raises some good points especially about Sak a and Martinelli. Saka has done nothing wrong but since he signed his contract he barely gets a decent run out and when he does he gets played out of position.Martinelli was also not getting time on the pitch before his injury.My worry is that the lack of game time could start to destroy their confidence and we end up losing two very good prospects.

That’s what being a football fan is all about!
Questioning team selections, having an opinion on every aspect of the team!
However being able to do this, on the back of winning trophies, beating the top sides, not going into games thinking, we’re going to get roasted, believing that if we go behind, we have a manager that can see how to retrieve the situation, either by changing things around or “as in the cup final” having faith in his gameplan and tactics!
That’s something we haven’t had in a long time!
I just hope we have him tied to a billion pound “buyout” because the Barca Whores will be watching, as will Citeh, when Guardiola delivers sweet fuck all this season!

[nut flush gooner]

In Arteta I trust 1000%. A revolution is starting boys and girls.

All fine and dandy, but when we had a bad spell I wonder will he still retain the support of the fans with xhaka and elninny in midfield, and saka being the waterboy
By all accounts maitland-niles, bellend and laca are all available for sale, and yet all 3 started yesterday

Lets also acknowledge that while yesterday was a very commanding and impressive performance for our first game of the season, it was against a team that is odds on to be relegated this season

Augie it's almost as if you are waiting for us to fail to prove a point. Yesterday wasn't about the opposition it was about building a platform, yes we will have tough phases during the season but this isn't a 6,12 or 18 month project its a 3 year one. And can you not acknowledge that during our succesful spells there were bang average players in the squad to fulfill a specific role (Kevin Richardson, David Hillier, Oleg Luzhny, Nelson Vivas etc etc). Arteta seems to see something in Elneny that makes him of use for the coming season, again we have to trust his judgement.

I would be highly surprised if these players are still at the club in 2 seasons time, that includes Xhaka.

A point I made yesterday on the match thread - I actually said that in some way yesterday could have been a harder game for us than for fulham cos a lack of preperation hurts footballers (us) more than workers (them), so I was happy with the professional attitude and performance we gave. What I am nowhere doing however, is getting way ahead of myself (the 1000% comment) on the back of 1 performance against a team very likely to go down.

The point I made about team selection is that arteta has better players at his disposal and yet is choosing to play grade A donkeys like xhaka and el ninny - are you telling me the fact that arteta views el ninny as better than ceballos, torreira and guendouzi doesnt concern you ? I dont know any other club in the top half of the league that would even consider picking xhaka in their first 11, and I doubt if there is a club in the league that would want el ninny For me saka is a million miles better than pepe, but yet arteta doesnt seem to rate him as highly given that he hasnt got a game in the cup semi final or final, and didnt get on yesterday either. As you know, I have real concerns that arteta doesnt believe or trust the young players and they are the easy ones to cast aside and this is another baffling decision imo

Btw, lumping richardson in with crazy horse luzhny, the luggage thief and vivas is beyond insulting - richardson came to us as an experienced player who had won a league and quietly did a great job for us

Agree with this , Richardson was outstanding for us and a key player in our title win , especially when Davis was banned for 8 matches.

I think Willian will be great for Saka who has only just turned 19 remember , it's a long season and we don't want him ruined by overplaying him as we did Wilshire. I'm not convinced with Nelson yet , but they will all get their opportunity , I do not believe for one minute Arteta is against young players, he has signed a young centre back and also looks like we may get Auaour as well, also he clearly likes Eddie and has played him if front of Laca several times.
There is a lot of work to be done but Arteta excites me and he doesn't take any prisoners either hence Guendouzi and Ozil not i the squad Saturday.

Hang on a minute, Richardson was definitely an unsung hero in my book maybe moreso than others but don't say that gooners thought he was outstanding at the time. He used to get slagged off rotten from the North Bank in that 89-91 period.

Very easy to say a player was outstanding looking back retrospectively. Even Alan Smith in that era used to kop flack from Gooners especially when his role changed on Ian Wright signing for us.

[A11M11]

Jon Sammels , the list isendless throughout all eras.

[Jock Gooner]

Can't say that I recall Ricco getting much of a hard time from the NB. Gus, Hayes and dear old Quinny yes but Ricco....no.

[nut flush gooner]

Can't say that I recall Ricco getting much of a hard time from the NB. Gus, Hayes and dear old Quinny yes but Ricco....no.

Ohh he did even in 1989. And I used to stand right in the middle.

[Jock Gooner]

Can't say that I recall Ricco getting much of a hard time from the NB. Gus, Hayes and dear old Quinny yes but Ricco....no.

Ohh he did even in 1989. And I used to stand right in the middle.

As did I. I just cannot remember him getting that much grief especially given the 'quality' of the others I mentioned who I certainly can recall getting plenty of abuse.

[nut flush gooner]

Can't say that I recall Ricco getting much of a hard time from the NB. Gus, Hayes and dear old Quinny yes but Ricco....no.

Ohh he did even in 1989. And I used to stand right in the middle.

As did I. I just cannot remember him getting that much grief especially given the 'quality' of the others I mentioned who I certainly can recall getting plenty of abuse.

Thing is unless you where there and it wasn't like gooners were singing you don't know what you're doing or anything like that, it was just a series of pure groans when he misplaced a pass. Rico did a job for the team, it was an ugly job so a lot of fans couldn't appreciate it really. So when he makes a mistake it gets amplified. Defintely affected his confidence over that period imo.

[Bennett]

Arteta doing very nicely for me.....sense of purpose and focus and put a work ethic and discipline in which had been hopelessly lost. I can't understand why there are any detractors at present....just my little opinion for what its worth