CoronaVirus / Adolf Putin / The Apocalypse etc

[Clash]

Absolutely spot on Sid. My missus had her first breast screening a couple of weeks ago and got a call back The call back rate is 4 out of 100 so we were shitting ourselves.

Trust me Covid wasn't even on our radar when we were driving into the hospital, didn't give it a fu.cking second thought. Thankfully after the recall she was given the all clear so we were lucky but covid....fuck covid.

We can't continue to fu.ck about with society with lockdowns every 2 minutes when Boris throws a wobbly.

Are we going to have daily death counts on the news for all diseases this winter to make it more interesting? Seems a bit unfair that nobody gave two shits about the 50,000 that used to die from flu in the winter or all the pneumonia deaths unreported.

Sorry to hear you and your missus went through that Jock. Glad to hear she was given the all-clear.

It is a real-life reminder that life isn’t just about COVID-19 though. It seems like for many people, stopping the spread of the virus has become all-consuming.

Totally agree with what you say about lock-downs and how it seems unfair to ignore all the deaths from other causes. A few months back the news was reporting the daily corona-virus death total. This was unprecedented. Then when the numbers fell to single figures, they started reporting the infection rate instead. Never have we heard the figures of those who have died or suffered as a consequence of these lock-down measures though.

There is an actual government figure on a government website that I have not heard mentioned on the news. It is that in the UK, less than 400 people under the age of 65 who didn’t have pre-existing health issues, have died with (but not necessarily from) corona-virus. The number of people who have died because the country was shutdown could be a many times that number so what has been achieved?! They are the forgotten victims in this. It is not just about other illnesses either, apparently suicide rates have doubled. And what do people think the threat of a £10,000 fine if you break the rules is achieving other than causing law abiding people, especially the elderly, to live in a constant state of panic?

Some of this stuff is disgraceful and I think people should be able to question it! I’m not trying to sound heartless. On the contrary I am aware that in extreme cases this virus sounds horrific. But then so is dying from cancer … and I wonder how many people will suffer from that in future because their treatment was put on hold or because they didn’t get the early diagnosis that could have made all the difference further down the line.

I understand people saying we need to accept the changes and comply with the new regulations but in some areas they are NOT simply harmless sacrifices we are making. In other areas they are just pointless. The rule of 6 and 10pm curfews ffs! So 6 people are safe at 9.59pm but when person number 7 turns up and the clocks strikes 10.01pm suddenly it’s every man for himself . I know it’s easy to make a loft of rules sound absurd if you break them down but this one is obviously nonsense! There will always be people who refuse to comply no matter what. This type of thing though is the government equivalent of the teacher punishing the whole class because they couldn’t control the few unruly ones.

Sid’s point about the onus being on the vulnerable or those who know someone who is vulnerable, is bang on. He definitely has a way of cutting through the bullshit!

[Gunner Rob]

No Sid is not bang on - he couldn’t be more wrong if he tried.

The onus is on everyone to accept responsibility to help try and prevent a second wave.

That means:
Mask wearing
Proper social distancing
Limit the number of times you go out

It is either that or the R rate continues to increase and tighter restrictions are imposed.

[rodders999]

All that talk of a phased return from October was bullshit from the day it was announced, it was never gonna happen. Same shit with the vaccine, it will be the end of this year, first quarter of 2021, middle of 2021, 2022.

If we were told the truth of when things will go back to the way they were pre covid there would be uproar and people would no longer buy in to the regulations. Who wants to live in this absolute shit show for the next 5+ years? Fuck that.

[Clash]

No Sid is not bang on - he couldn’t be more wrong if he tried.

The onus is on everyone to accept responsibility to help try and prevent a second wave.

That means:
Mask wearing
Proper social distancing
Limit the number of times you go out

It is either that or the R rate continues to increase and tighter restrictions are imposed.

I didnt see Sid condone acting irresponsibly though so I am not sure why he cannot be more wrong.

I am sure a lot of us were already in the habit of washing our hands regularly and not going round coughing and breathing on people. There is a limit to what we can do.

If we save one life by wearing a mask in a shop, do we save another by leaving our car in the garage to avoid what is statistically the much higher possibility of killing someone on the roads?

I just find it hard to accept how the lives of millions are being put on hold and in some cases in danger (that's the worst part) for so few people. I understand its about prevention too but the balance is so far off here.

18 people died with Coronavirus yesterday ... in other news around 1,582 died from other causes and another 59,998,400 didnt. I'm not trying to be sarcastic but where do we draw the line Rob?

The R rate will increase as the number of tests have increased. This time of year is also when viruses tend to increase so this increase is not enough to be evidence of a 2nd wave. Or to justify these latest restrictions.

I miss going to the pub as I am sure we all do ... but Its not about feeling entitled. There just might not be any pubs left in 6 months time and this means a lot of serious problems ahead in the lives of the people who run those kind of businesses. And for what?

To date I know just one person who has tested positive for COVID. Nobody else caught it from her. She wasn’t isolated at any point beforehand so quite how you get it or spread it I have no idea. In contrast I actually know several people who think that they might have had it before Christmas or around New Year. This would suggest it was here long before we got told about it. It would also suggest that although it was nasty, it wasn’t dissimilar enough to seasonal flu to have been noticeable.

For the record I actually do wear a mask when required, even though I am far from convinced that they do any good. What one scientist or expert says, you can find another one who says the opposite but Governments are notorious for only listening to the advice they want to hear.

If we step away from the hysteria … then is this coronavirus really that much more serious than flu? Well, not to the people who have died from flu it isn’t.

[GoonerMuzz]

Pareto's principle roughly states that in most cases 80% of problems are caused by 20% of people, unfortunately 20% of the UK populations is almost 13.5M people

Even if the other 53.5M people do exactly as they are exactly that is still a large bunch of idiots deliberately trying to find reasons not to. Blanket punishment only works as a threat where the authority in charge is either respected or forceful enough to ensure compliance, very few Western Nations have that authority over their people any more, then add in the MSMs need to constantly question and contradict whatever is said or decided by the authority and you end up with the shit storm being experienced by every Western European nation bar one or two.

So what if the message doesnt always make sense they are trying to protect people as best they can, if everyone actually followed the rules to the best of their ability I guarantee that infection rates would not be rising the way they are.

In a situation where next to no one in living memory has had to deal with it's like then leadership will make mistakes because they are trying to learn on the fly, the situation is constantly changing or updating and there is a time lag between new information and being able to disseminate it so rather than questioning the inconsistencies people should accept them use their own common sense and try to do the best they can, you know like adult human beings but instead a proportion of the population instead find every excuse under the sun to not follow the advice and people die

[Jock Gooner]

Absolutely spot on Sid. My missus had her first breast screening a couple of weeks ago and got a call back The call back rate is 4 out of 100 so we were shitting ourselves.

Trust me Covid wasn't even on our radar when we were driving into the hospital, didn't give it a fu.cking second thought. Thankfully after the recall she was given the all clear so we were lucky but covid....fuck covid.

We can't continue to fu.ck about with society with lockdowns every 2 minutes when Boris throws a wobbly.

Are we going to have daily death counts on the news for all diseases this winter to make it more interesting? Seems a bit unfair that nobody gave two shits about the 50,000 that used to die from flu in the winter or all the pneumonia deaths unreported.

Sorry to hear you and your missus went through that Jock. Glad to hear she was given the all-clear.

It is a real-life reminder that life isn’t just about COVID-19 though. It seems like for many people, stopping the spread of the virus has become all-consuming.

Totally agree with what you say about lock-downs and how it seems unfair to ignore all the deaths from other causes. A few months back the news was reporting the daily corona-virus death total. This was unprecedented. Then when the numbers fell to single figures, they started reporting the infection rate instead. Never have we heard the figures of those who have died or suffered as a consequence of these lock-down measures though.

There is an actual government figure on a government website that I have not heard mentioned on the news. It is that in the UK, less than 400 people under the age of 65 who didn’t have pre-existing health issues, have died with (but not necessarily from) corona-virus. The number of people who have died because the country was shutdown could be a many times that number so what has been achieved?! They are the forgotten victims in this. It is not just about other illnesses either, apparently suicide rates have doubled. And what do people think the threat of a £10,000 fine if you break the rules is achieving other than causing law abiding people, especially the elderly, to live in a constant state of panic?

Some of this stuff is disgraceful and I think people should be able to question it! I’m not trying to sound heartless. On the contrary I am aware that in extreme cases this virus sounds horrific. But then so is dying from cancer … and I wonder how many people will suffer from that in future because their treatment was put on hold or because they didn’t get the early diagnosis that could have made all the difference further down the line.

I understand people saying we need to accept the changes and comply with the new regulations but in some areas they are NOT simply harmless sacrifices we are making. In other areas they are just pointless. The rule of 6 and 10pm curfews ffs! So 6 people are safe at 9.59pm but when person number 7 turns up and the clocks strikes 10.01pm suddenly it’s every man for himself . I know it’s easy to make a loft of rules sound absurd if you break them down but this one is obviously nonsense! There will always be people who refuse to comply no matter what. This type of thing though is the government equivalent of the teacher punishing the whole class because they couldn’t control the few unruly ones.

Sid’s point about the onus being on the vulnerable or those who know someone who is vulnerable, is bang on. He definitely has a way of cutting through the bullshit!

Cheers Clash, much appreciated. As you can imagine it wasn't a fun week.

The figures pretty much speak for themselves. 90.4% of covid deaths involve at least one pre-existing condition.

The ONS state that as at 11/9/20 there were 52,482 deaths involving coronavirus which means covid got a mention on the death cert. That does seem to include anyone who had the virus and survived it yet later died in a car crash but still got registered as covid.

Of those deaths 46,874 were over the age of 65 that's very very nearly 90%. So now we have two 90% stats. It's pretty bloody obvious who needs looking after.

Social distancing and hygiene - absolutely. I'll wear a mask in a shop for 5 minutes if that makes people happy but those useless fu.cks making up policy on the hoof had better quit with all the bullshit ideas and start making some sense. If not, there is going to be growing resistance to their bs and I can't say that I would have any sympathy for them.

The only thing the govenment had to do was to get test, track and trace right and that was beyond them so until they can actually contribute anything useful they should all just fu.ck off.

[augie]

No Sid is not bang on - he couldn’t be more wrong if he tried.

The onus is on everyone to accept responsibility to help try and prevent a second wave.

That means:
Mask wearing
Proper social distancing
Limit the number of times you go out

It is either that or the R rate continues to increase and tighter restrictions are imposed.

All fair enough recommendations, but can I ask how long for ? As rodders has alluded to, these measures cannot stay in place indefinitely so then what ? People's mental health also has to be a factor in these sanctions, and I know from dealing with pensioners in the post office that many are struggling with the limited social interaction they have - my own parents (late 70s) response to the 3 counties lockdown we had 2 months ago was "fcuk them and their lockdown cos we aint stopping in again". Yes I know the potential lethal alternative is not good either, but how do you tell people that have worked all their life, that they could be spending the last few years of their life house bound and not seeing anyone ?
Maybe some medical genius will tell me I am wrong, but without a vaccine we will have to hibernate indefinitely, or we open up the country somewhat and accept the consequences that come with it - I dont see any way we can have a successful inbetween life I really dont.

What I will say though, is that I do feel that there should be proper sanctions brought in for people who flaunt mandated requirements - none of us like or want to wear face masks, but in the grand scheme of things I will do it (and the social distancing and sanatising) to prevent further lockdowns. However what we have over here now is a half arsed version of governing - they continually tell us that "house gatherings" are the problem areas, yet they allow off-licences to continue trading whilst closing down pubs and restaurants They tell us that there is a 6 person limit on people in houses and that those 6 can only come from 2 different houses, yet they have given nobody the power to police this so house parties are becoming more and more frequent Locally we have had a guy that was working in a hotel where there was an outbreak and he had been tested by the health authorities but while he was awaiting his results, he told no-one and continued to socialise like nothing happened - as it turned out the guy tested positive and luckily enough his friends tested negative, but if he had transmitted that virus to his friends or other customers in the pub, then he should be hit with a massive fine to make him and everyone else aware that their selfishness will have consequences At the moment the punishment for his actions is nothing, unless you count backlash from locals as punishment (a good kicking might help though )

However I am saying again that imo lockdowns are not the answer - nightclubs, concerts, house parties and packed sporting events will have to remain closed for the foreseeable, but school's, work places, pubs and restaurants (with limited capacity), and outdoor events (with reduced capacities), must plough on come what may imo

[nut flush gooner]

No Sid is not bang on - he couldn’t be more wrong if he tried.

The onus is on everyone to accept responsibility to help try and prevent a second wave.

That means:
Mask wearing
Proper social distancing
Limit the number of times you go out

It is either that or the R rate continues to increase and tighter restrictions are imposed.

All fair enough recommendations, but can I ask how long for ? As rodders has alluded to, these measures cannot stay in place indefinitely so then what ? People's mental health also has to be a factor in these sanctions, and I know from dealing with pensioners in the post office that many are struggling with the limited social interaction they have - my own parents (late 70s) response to the 3 counties lockdown we had 2 months ago was "fcuk them and their lockdown cos we aint stopping in again". Yes I know the potential lethal alternative is not good either, but how do you tell people that have worked all their life, that they could be spending the last few years of their life house bound and not seeing anyone ?
Maybe some medical genius will tell me I am wrong, but without a vaccine we will have to hibernate indefinitely, or we open up the country somewhat and accept the consequences that come with it - I dont see any way we can have a successful inbetween life I really dont.

What I will say though, is that I do feel that there should be proper sanctions brought in for people who flaunt mandated requirements - none of us like or want to wear face masks, but in the grand scheme of things I will do it (and the social distancing and sanatising) to prevent further lockdowns. However what we have over here now is a half arsed version of governing - they continually tell us that "house gatherings" are the problem areas, yet they allow off-licences to continue trading whilst closing down pubs and restaurants They tell us that there is a 6 person limit on people in houses and that those 6 can only come from 2 different houses, yet they have given nobody the power to police this so house parties are becoming more and more frequent Locally we have had a guy that was working in a hotel where there was an outbreak and he had been tested by the health authorities but while he was awaiting his results, he told no-one and continued to socialise like nothing happened - as it turned out the guy tested positive and luckily enough his friends tested negative, but if he had transmitted that virus to his friends or other customers in the pub, then he should be hit with a massive fine to make him and everyone else aware that their selfishness will have consequences At the moment the punishment for his actions is nothing, unless you count backlash from locals as punishment (a good kicking might help though )

However I am saying again that imo lockdowns are not the answer - nightclubs, concerts, house parties and packed sporting events will have to remain closed for the foreseeable, but school's, work places, pubs and restaurants (with limited capacity), and outdoor events (with reduced capacities), must plough on come what may imo

Over the longer term lockdowns dont work, they were required as a handbrake in March because the US and UK governments had their eyes off the ball for so long the shit quite literally hit the fan.

What is inexcusable in the UK is not having a contact tracing app that works, in an era that we can video conference around the world, and largely with the exception of the hospitality industry/arts function as countries albeit at reduced capacities. We tried to be smart on that front, what we should have done is taken the blueprint from a country that has succesfully dealt with the pandemic without the need for any further lockdowns.

And this is the problem, the world in 2020 is truly a dysfunctional place with no harmony in the desire to eradicate COVID19. The US and China refusing to sign up to an international collaboration ensuring that as many people across the globe get access to an effective vaccine just sums it all up. This quite literally is costing lives both COVID and non COVID related.

[rodders999]

Moysie and a couple of West Ham players have tested positive. Hopefully none of our lot are in jeopardy after Saturday’s game.

[A11M11]

Moyes , Diop and Cullen apparently

[augie]

Moysie and a couple of West Ham players have tested positive. Hopefully none of our lot are in jeopardy after Saturday’s game.

When football resumed first they claimed that people need to be in close contact for 15 mins and that a study in german games said that players are not in contact with other players for anymore than 90 seconds at a time - we'll see if those medical stats stand up now

Any possibility xhaka contracted it ?

[A11M11]

Xhaka ? Nah , never got close enough

[GoonerMuzz]

Just to cheer everyone up, Spanish flu took over two years to run its course in a world/age considerably more disconnected and at about a fifth of the population (therefore at a much lower population density) than we have now. For all the advances in technology and medicine since 1918 we dont seem much better prepared to deal with this than they were back then. I have a strong feeling that any return to normality may be a long, long way off.... whether we like it or not some sacrifices may eventually have to be made

[Midz]

Just watched a bit of BAYERN vs SEVILLA and they have fans in the stadium. Not capacity of course but a good few.
Seemed strange to see real people in the seats.

[nut flush gooner]

Just to cheer everyone up, Spanish flu took over two years to run its course in a world/age considerably more disconnected and at about a fifth of the population (therefore at a much lower population density) than we have now. For all the advances in technology and medicine since 1918 we dont seem much better prepared to deal with this than they were back then. I have a strong feeling that any return to normality may be a long, long way off.... whether we like it or not some sacrifices may eventually have to be made

Disagree, we are exponentially better prepared to deal with this virus than we were back then even with our disenfranchised countries/populations. 15m+ were killed back then so if we end up with 80m deaths from COVID it would be a global humanitarian disaster.

If they manage to get a vaccine produced at scale next year it will cut the pandemic in half time-wise and save millions of lives as long as the vaccine has been robustly tested. In the meantime, mask-wearing and contact tracing is the way forward. I have already downloaded the NHS App, I just hope it works.