Mikel Arteta, success or failure? - Merged thread.

[Herd]

Theres an Article in the mirror suggesting that that Arsenals lack of scoring is a systemic problem, well no fucking shit sherlock ,how did they figure that one out !

[SteveO 35]

Theres an Article in the mirror suggesting that that Arsenals lack of scoring is a systemic problem, well no fucking shit sherlock ,how did they figure that one out !

You'd think a simple glance at the "Goals For" column ever since Pep's Cone Boy got the job would be sufficient evidence wouldn't you.......but perhaps its taken these deep thinkers 100+ games and tons of Opta stats to see what's been blindingly obvious since day 1

The football is played at a slow and predictable snail's pace. Everything is over-engineered, over-coached and players have had every bit of individual flair and decision making knocked out of them. Auba is probably the best example but most others are the same too. Result? Some of the most boring sterile football I've ever witnessed from Arsenal. Games never finished off because at 1 up you know the chance of getting a second is like treading in rocking horse shit

Whether you've played at Sunday league/pub level or the PL, everyone will say that the time they most enjoyed playing was under a manager who kept things simple for them and made them feel good. The least enjoyable would be working for someone with a hundred instructions running through your head stifling any ounce of creativity you've got. Guess which version of management we have?

[John F]

Theres an Article in the mirror suggesting that that Arsenals lack of scoring is a systemic problem, well no fucking shit sherlock ,how did they figure that one out !

You'd think a simple glance at the "Goals For" column ever since Pep's Cone Boy got the job would be sufficient evidence wouldn't you.......but perhaps its taken these deep thinkers 100+ games and tons of Opta stats to see what's been blindingly obvious since day 1

The football is played at a slow and predictable snail's pace. Everything is over-engineered, over-coached and players have had every bit of individual flair and decision making knocked out of them. Auba is probably the best example but most others are the same too. Result? Some of the most boring sterile football I've ever witnessed from Arsenal. Games never finished off because at 1 up you know the chance of getting a second is like treading in rocking horse shit

Whether you've played at Sunday league/pub level or the PL, everyone will say that the time they most enjoyed playing was under a manager who kept things simple for them and made them feel good. The least enjoyable would be working for someone with a hundred instructions running through your head stifling any ounce of creativity you've got. Guess which version of management we have?

I noticed the over coaching during one of the games (they are all merging into one) when TomI was taking a quick throw in near the Dug out.Saka made a quick run down the wing hoping to receive the ball quickly but Arteta was shouting and pointing at Tomi to throw it square which he did,losing the chance of a quick counter attack.

[SteveO 35]

Theres an Article in the mirror suggesting that that Arsenals lack of scoring is a systemic problem, well no fucking shit sherlock ,how did they figure that one out !

You'd think a simple glance at the "Goals For" column ever since Pep's Cone Boy got the job would be sufficient evidence wouldn't you.......but perhaps its taken these deep thinkers 100+ games and tons of Opta stats to see what's been blindingly obvious since day 1

The football is played at a slow and predictable snail's pace. Everything is over-engineered, over-coached and players have had every bit of individual flair and decision making knocked out of them. Auba is probably the best example but most others are the same too. Result? Some of the most boring sterile football I've ever witnessed from Arsenal. Games never finished off because at 1 up you know the chance of getting a second is like treading in rocking horse shit

Whether you've played at Sunday league/pub level or the PL, everyone will say that the time they most enjoyed playing was under a manager who kept things simple for them and made them feel good. The least enjoyable would be working for someone with a hundred instructions running through your head stifling any ounce of creativity you've got. Guess which version of management we have?

I noticed the over coaching during one of the games (they are all merging into one) when TomI was taking a quick throw in near the Dug out.Saka made a quick run down the wing hoping to receive the ball quickly but Arteta was shouting and pointing at Tomi to throw it square which he did,losing the chance of a quick counter attack.

And that's what worries me about our younger players having the life coached out of them. I never played at anything other than half decent, amateur level but when I first started playing senior football I was 15 and still also playing junior football. I was really lucky that I had a couple of managers back then who just reinforced what you were good at, what you needed to work on, and gave you handy advice at half time and before matches. Roll on 20+ years when I was on my last legs and I noticed more managers, wanting to be intensely involved in everything barking out instructions at every corner, every throw etc. I saw some of the younger players get genuinely quite stressed by it all, to the point they spent as much time looking at the touchline as they did the game. I remember saying to the manager in my last season about one of our young wingers - you need to lay off him and let him play a bit. I watch Arteta during games and its like he wants to stop every play, dictate every move. Again, its the naivety of a young manager who hasn't long finished playing.....and I also wonder if anyone has the balls to have the senior player conversation? I doubt it

[GoonerMuzz]

I think Saka is a prime example of the stifling over coaching at the club, last year he was raw and inexperienced and occasionally made wrong decisions but he was dynamic and attacking in most instances, this year he seems like a completely different player. For the record i'm in no way pointing the finger at him but i think it is fair to say that this season he has been nowhere near as good as he was for large parts of last season.

The whole team just feels stifled and lacking in urgency, they rarely try to take players on down the outside, always cutting back in looking to square the ball and when that isn't on the automatic reaction is to pass backwards to ensure we retain possession, again and again this season we have got into promising positions and the player with the ball has just stopped all forward movement, checked back and passed it back to one of the centre backs where it has then gone across the field and laboriously up the other wing, in the meantime the oppositions defence has had all of five minutes to take a piss, have a brew and smoke in the car park before casually wandering back into some semblance of two banks of 4 and set themselves comfortably......

If i can see this happening game after game then why can't the genius earning millions of pounds spot it

[StuartL]

I think Saka is a prime example of the stifling over coaching at the club, last year he was raw and inexperienced and occasionally made wrong decisions but he was dynamic and attacking in most instances, this year he seems like a completely different player. For the record i'm in no way pointing the finger at him but i think it is fair to say that this season he has been nowhere near as good as he was for large parts of last season.

The whole team just feels stifled and lacking in urgency, they rarely try to take players on down the outside, always cutting back in looking to square the ball and when that isn't on the automatic reaction is to pass backwards to ensure we retain possession, again and again this season we have got into promising positions and the player with the ball has just stopped all forward movement, checked back and passed it back to one of the centre backs where it has then gone across the field and laboriously up the other wing, in the meantime the oppositions defence has had all of five minutes to take a piss, have a brew and smoke in the car park before casually wandering back into some semblance of two banks of 4 and set themselves comfortably......

If i can see this happening game after game then why can't the genius earning millions of pounds spot it

Cos he’s not yet reached the magical 30 years in charge

No please note the yet…..he may here for a while…..

[Retro Gunner]

Some excellent points made by you guys on this page and all spot on. It's why I tell people that Martinelli needs to get out of the club as quickly as possible and save his career. The boy looked the real deal under Emery....and I mean the most exciting youngster we've seen in a generation or more....but not only has Arteta sidelined him (and I find it hard not to suspect that it's for spiteful reasons), but when the boy does play, he looks largely devoid of the flair and exuberant dynamism that we previously saw.

That's no doubt something to do with a lack of game time, but it's more the mind numbing, sterile tactics that the novice boss favours. The boy seems to be playing in fear.

[Gunner Rob]

I think Saka is a prime example of the stifling over coaching at the club, last year he was raw and inexperienced and occasionally made wrong decisions but he was dynamic and attacking in most instances, this year he seems like a completely different player. For the record i'm in no way pointing the finger at him but i think it is fair to say that this season he has been nowhere near as good as he was for large parts of last season.

The whole team just feels stifled and lacking in urgency, they rarely try to take players on down the outside, always cutting back in looking to square the ball and when that isn't on the automatic reaction is to pass backwards to ensure we retain possession, again and again this season we have got into promising positions and the player with the ball has just stopped all forward movement, checked back and passed it back to one of the centre backs where it has then gone across the field and laboriously up the other wing, in the meantime the oppositions defence has had all of five minutes to take a piss, have a brew and smoke in the car park before casually wandering back into some semblance of two banks of 4 and set themselves comfortably......

If i can see this happening game after game then why can't the genius earning millions of pounds spot it

I think Arteta CAN see the problems actually - that’s why you see him frustrated and flapping his arms about.
However the problem is that he doesn’t know what to do to change things. His in game management is probably the worst out of any managers in the PL. I am not sure any other club would let a lead slip for 2 matches in a row for example.

[A11M11]

He doesn't have one player with the bollocks to take charge on the pitch . We paid a fortune for a centre back that doesn't push his defence out of the penalty box . A centre midfield player that can't be relied upon and then there's Xhaka a liability ready to implode at any second . Couple that with a captain hiding in any long grass he can find and it doesn't matter how much he shouts and screams .
They ain't listening.

[OneBardGooner]

Theres an Article in the mirror suggesting that that Arsenals lack of scoring is a systemic problem, well no fucking shit sherlock ,how did they figure that one out !

Elementary really.

[OneBardGooner]

The thing is I really hoped and wanted arteta to succeed as our coach/manager - How good would it have been to have an ex-player/captain to lead us to winning the prem and a European trophy (as well as the FA Cup)!?

Maybe I was being naive in thinking having spent 3 years under the tutelage of Pep and having seen how to be creative on the pitch tactics wise as well as design a series of playing systems that suit the players we have, but also to meet with the various teams and their adopted systems / tactics.

But major blunders for me began with his inability to bring out the best of Gendouzi instead of alienating him to the point where all communications broke down and they ended up going toe to toe.

His ill informed and bewildering inability to bring Saliba into the fold - Both of these players are now performing extremely well on a pretty consistent basis at Marseille; maybe we should bring in Jorge Sampaoli?

Then of course his resurrection of xhaka to the team (which for me is Unforgivable) after he not only disgraced badge and shirt with his tantrums but didn't even have the decency, intelligence or cajones to simply apologise to the fans. Arteta not only backs him by his lack of admonishment, but then gives him a new contract on yet even more money; this is a player who in the Summer break actively encouraged interest from other (foreign) clubs and who brings nothing "positive" to the team if it is supposed to be progressing.

Him and Edu keep going on about "The Process" - "Trust The Process" - But other than bringing in some decent signings - whether that was Edu or him ? I don't know. BUT part of that process appears to be 'trusting' to young players...However, he (again) has neglected one of our youngest talents Martinelli - Who having been sidelined for so long has found it hard to achieve consistency when he has been played.

Then of course there's his micro-management of the team (visibly demonstrated not only by the players lack of spontaneity - but the way that players like Tomiyatsu no longer over-lap on the right flank and so leaving Saka to be double marked and kicked to pieces by the opposition when he does try and make any headway on his own. His continuing playing of players like Elneny & Nketiah both of whom are supposed to be on their way out. And please don't tell me we don't have better players than them.

Any initial promise shown by Pepe has all bar disappeared and playing Nketiah instead of Pepe in the final third of the game against Everton was ludicrous - at least Pepe does create chances and openings for other players.

As much as myself and I'm sure many others wanted and hoped he would succeed and get us back on track - He has now proven beyond all doubt that he is Not Good Enough. His arrogance (not confidence) is demonstrated week in week out by his team selection and especially his use of substitutes that always put us on the back foot whether we are winning to losing.

And finally! He has yet to explain The Process, he (and Edu) have eluded to it, but not only have they not explained it to us, something we are surely entitled to know, but no time estimation / limit has been given it, so if allowed to continue we could still be here in mid-table obscurity in 10 seasons time.

The Kroenkes made a HUGE mistake in appointing him, and need to own up to that mistake and sack him. The problem is we had the opportunity to bring in experienced managers, all of whom have now been snapped up by other teams and instead; either because of their tightfistedness or lack of Football Knowledge they landed us with Arteta - who is clearly and totally out of his depth.


#ArtetaOut.

[GoonerMuzz]

The thing is I really hoped and wanted arteta to succeed as our coach/manager - How good would it have been to have an ex-player/captain to lead us to winning the prem and a European trophy (as well as the FA Cup)!?

Maybe I was being naive in thinking having spent 3 years under the tutelage of Pep and having seen how to be creative on the pitch tactics wise as well as design a series of playing systems that suit the players we have, but also to meet with the various teams and their adopted systems / tactics.

But major blunders for me began with his inability to bring out the best of Gendouzi instead of alienating him to the point where all communications broke down and they ended up going toe to toe.

His ill informed and bewildering inability to bring Saliba into the fold - Both of these players are now performing extremely well on a pretty consistent basis at Marseille; maybe we should bring in Jorge Sampaoli?

Then of course his resurrection of xhaka to the team (which for me is Unforgivable) after he not only disgraced badge and shirt with his tantrums but didn't even have the decency, intelligence or cajones to simply apologise to the fans. Arteta not only backs him by his lack of admonishment, but then gives him a new contract on yet even more money; this is a player who in the Summer break actively encouraged interest from other (foreign) clubs and who brings nothing "positive" to the team if it is supposed to be progressing.

Him and Edu keep going on about "The Process" - "Trust The Process" - But other than bringing in some decent signings - whether that was Edu or him ? I don't know. BUT part of that process appears to be 'trusting' to young players...However, he (again) has neglected one of our youngest talents Martinelli - Who having been sidelined for so long has found it hard to achieve consistency when he has been played.

Then of course there's his micro-management of the team (visibly demonstrated not only by the players lack of spontaneity - but the way that players like Tomiyatsu no longer over-lap on the right flank and so leaving Saka to be double marked and kicked to pieces by the opposition when he does try and make any headway on his own. His continuing playing of players like Elneny & Nketiah both of whom are supposed to be on their way out. And please don't tell me we don't have better players than them.

Any initial promise shown by Pepe has all bar disappeared and playing Nketiah instead of Pepe in the final third of the game against Everton was ludicrous - at least Pepe does create chances and openings for other players.

As much as myself and I'm sure many others wanted and hoped he would succeed and get us back on track - He has now proven beyond all doubt that he is Not Good Enough. His arrogance (not confidence) is demonstrated week in week out by his team selection and especially his use of substitutes that always put us on the back foot whether we are winning to losing.

And finally! He has yet to explain The Process, he (and Edu) have eluded to it, but not only have they not explained it to us, something we are surely entitled to know, but no time estimation / limit has been given it, so if allowed to continue we could still be here in mid-table obscurity in 10 seasons time.

The Kroenkes made a HUGE mistake in appointing him, and need to own up to that mistake and sack him. The problem is we had the opportunity to bring in experienced managers, all of whom have now been snapped up by other teams and instead; either because of their tightfistedness or lack of Football Knowledge they landed us with Arteta - who is clearly and totally out of his depth.


#ArtetaOut.

OBG i agree with most of the above but not the bits in red, Guendozi was already being a twat under Emery long before Arteta came along and wasnt getting as many regular starts under Emery as he had in the season before and for the last time he DID NOT bring Xhaka back into the team, Emery did and Freddie continued it. Emery brought him back into full training subbed him in twice and then gave him his first full start after the fan incident....... Revisionism is a disease these days

[OneBardGooner]

I still think Xhaka shouldn't be anywhere near the team

And

I think handled in the right way Guendouzi could be a terrific player for us.

[DB10GOONER]

SlySports showed our match last night and seemed to show Martinez-Lite every 3 or 4 minutes. One thing that has been really obvious for a long time and was clearly shown last night is he has coached the life out of most of our young players. He was constantly yelling and pointing and telling them where to go, what to do, where to pass etc.

I hated the way Wenger used to sit there frozen like a self harming teenager while it went to shit on the pitch, but equally I dislike managers that go to the other extreme and micromanage everything on the pitch.

There is a healthy balance where the manager let's the players play and only talks to encourage the players, and change things tactically if it's required.

[begeegs]

Looks like Auba has done Arteta a favour as Lacazette fits this team loads better. As a result, we are seeing improvement in performances without really sacrificing defensive work. Granted, they are still miles off competing for honours, but these last couple of performances have been encouraging.